Giving Assist Trophies new roles.

[Koopaul]

I never had a problem with non-playable characters being in Smash. They can't make everyone a fighter. So Sakurai's solution was to have assist fighters. A good solution on paper. But I feel like it is executed very poorly. If you happen to have a favorite character you want to see appear, but he's an AT, your pretty screwed. ATs are completely random and there's a good chance someone like Bomberman won't ever show up to fight along side you. And if you are lucky to have him appear, he's only on the stage for a few seconds before disappearing. It's a pretty sad fate.

But then I remembered K.K. Slider. He's a non-playable character who shows up in Smash but he's different. Instead of being random, he's always guaranteed to show up on the Animal Crossing stage on Saturday nights. And he doesn't disappear after a few seconds, he's there for the whole match. Sure, he's not fighting, but honestly who cares? K.K. Slider is taking center stage and playing you his awesome tunes. It's a really cool way to include him. Much better than a random chance to see him, and only for a few seconds.

So this topic is about taking already confirmed Assist Trophies and giving them a new role in the game. And no, you can't make them a fighter. That's not the point of this mental exercise. It can be anything else. Even a boss in an Adventure Mode. Or some sort of mini-game like how Sandbag appears in Home-Run Contest.

I'd like to hear your ideas.

 

[Yosher]

I don't think the Assist Trophy idea was executed poorly. Sure you may not see your favourite Assist Trophy character much, but if they weren't Assist Trophies, chances are you wouldn't even see them in the game at all, aside from maybe regular trophy form. And considering most of the attention will go to fights, and attention is generally not really gone to background details, people likely don't really ''see'' a character like K.K. Slider for much of a mach anyway because he was never a point of focus due to the action they're paying attention to (unlress you're having a Taunt Party or something I guess). So honestly, considering it'd be difficult to find a role for every single Assist Trophy they implemented AND the fact that they become more of a focal point when being an Assist Trophy due to becoming a threat to those who didn't summon them, I really don't think it's a bad solution whatsoever.

That said, finding other roles for them could be fun too, even if they're not the focal point. I think the easy one here would be the Squid Sisters, giving them a role akin to K.K. Slider and having them perform City of Color, Calamari Inkantation and/or Ink Me Up on the Moray Towers stage. But there's also a chance that they already gave this role to Pearl and Marina, since they also have more songs to choose from (but this would also mean having to animate more dances for them so I dunno if that's the case, though I guess they could just choose one or two and leave it at that).

One idea I had though aside from the above, was to just make Event Matches that focus on the Assist Trophies. Maybe having one where they're automatically summoned, and you have to defeat them all for example (the ones you can defeat anyway). I know it wouldn't be much, but, y'know.

 

[SmashShadow]

I would like all the beatable assist trophies show up in an adventure/smash run mode as like mini bosses or enemies that won't have a time limit. Many of them were in Smash run before such as Chain Chomp, Star Man, and Hammer Bro. I'd like them to take it a step further. Like imagine fighting a bunch of mario enemies then suddenly having to fight Wario and the Waluigi Assist trophy. You could do the same with Ganondorf and Ghirahim, or facing off against Phosphora and Magnus, Rodon and Bayo, Goroh and Captain Falcon, Alucard and Simon, Sonic & Knuckles, Lyn and Roy, Megaman and Zero, and Krystal with Fox and Falco.

 

[Koopaul]

I would like all the beatable assist trophies show up in an adventure/smash run mode as like mini bosses or enemies that won't have a time limit. Many of them were in Smash run before such as Chain Chomp, Star Man, and Hammer Bro. I'd like them to take it a step further. Like imagine fighting a bunch of mario enemies then suddenly having to fight Wario and the Waluigi Assist trophy. You could do the same with Ganondorf and Ghirahim, or facing off against Phosphora and Magnus, Rodon and Bayo, Goroh and Captain Falcon, Alucard and Simon, Sonic & Knuckles, Lyn and Roy, Megaman and Zero, and Krystal with Fox and Falco.

That's actually really great. We already have Rathalos as a boss and an Assist. We should have all the beatable Assists in an adventure mode of some sort. It's a much better fate.

I don't think the Assist Trophy idea was executed poorly. Sure you may not see your favourite Assist Trophy character much, but if they weren't Assist Trophies, chances are you wouldn't even see them in the game at all, aside from maybe regular trophy form.

That's not true. In the past characters would make appearances on stages as hazards or background cameos. As time went on, those background roles got to be more prominent and noticeable.

And considering most of the attention will go to fights, and attention is generally not really gone to background details, people likely don't really ''see'' a character like K.K. Slider for much of a mach anyway because he was never a point of focus due to the action they're paying attention to (unlress you're having a Taunt Party or something I guess).

I don't think that's true. He's under a spotlight, center stage, playing music. It's impossible to miss. But if you were the type of person who is so dedicated to the battle that you can't even see K.K. Slider (a difficult feat), you wouldn't even have Assist Trophies on at all! So K.K. Slider's role is a good prominent role in my eyes.

So honestly, considering it'd be difficult to find a role for every single Assist Trophy they implemented AND the fact that they become more of a focal point when being an Assist Trophy due to becoming a threat to those who didn't summon them, I really don't think it's a bad solution whatsoever.

This is a hypothetical alternate reality scenario where Sakurai decide to not create Assist Trophies and instead wanted to find other roles for these characters.

One idea I had though aside from the above, was to just make Event Matches that focus on the Assist Trophies. Maybe having one where they're automatically summoned, and you have to defeat them all for example (the ones you can defeat anyway). I know it wouldn't be much, but, y'know.

No, that would be giving them a lot more than they have now. Event Matches are fun challenges that Smash fans appreciate. Giving a certain non-playable character their own event match is really cool.

 

[Yosher]

That's not true. In the past characters would make appearances on stages as hazards or background cameos. As time went on, those background roles got to be more prominent and noticeable.

True. And I guess that was the point of this topic, but my point still kinda stands because it really depends on how the developers would implement these characters. Like, Knuckles for example. Unless you were to look for him, chances are you would most likely miss him in the Green Hill Zone stage. If you even chose the Green Hill Zone stage to fight on in the first place. Now, as an Assist Trophy, he's brought much more to the foreground and you're able to see more of him whenever he's summoned, and he can appear on ANY stage.

I don't think that's true. He's under a spotlight, center stage, playing music. It's impossible to miss. But if you were the type of person who is so dedicated to the battle that you can't even see K.K. Slider (a difficult feat), you wouldn't even have Assist Trophies on at all! So K.K. Slider's role is a good prominent role in my eyes.

Yeah, of course it's impossible to miss. At first, while you're still in the zone of admiring details of each stage. But after a while, you just don't really pay attention to background characters anymore because you're so used to it. Of course I'm not saying that finding other roles for these characters is a bad thing, I'm merely saying that an Assist Trophy role isn't as bad of a fate for these characters as you're making it out to be.

This is a hypothetical alternate reality scenario where Sakurai decide to not create Assist Trophies and instead wanted to find other roles for these characters.

It's likely not all of these characters would even have appeared even if there never was an Assist Trophy role. When we do take the Assist Trophy out of consideration, for a good bunch of the characters that do currently appear as such, specific stages would probably have to be made for them to even make sense to appear, because otherwise, what would you do with the Arcade Bunny, for example? Or the Excitebikes? Or the Sablé Prince? Among a good amount of others. Good luck finding roles for these types of characters if the Assist Trophy role doesn't exist. Like SmashShadow mentioned, some of them could potentially appear in a Smash Run-esque mode as enemies. But this would not be possible for all of them in a sensible way, and that's an issue that I feel the Assist Trophy easily solves in still being able to give these particular characters a more active role in the game.

Again though, I'm not saying that finding other roles for these characters is a bad thing whatsoever. It can certainly be a good thing! Like, I love what they did in this game with Pauline and her band for instance, and I do love the K.K. Slider concerts you mentioned as well even if I don't really pay much attention to it these days. I just find it a little silly that you consider characters becoming an Assist Trophy a 'sad fate', that's all. I don't think fans of a particular character are really going to feel much better about their character becoming a background detail instead of an Assist Trophy anyway.

As you can probably see in my signature, my two most wanted characters are Kamek and Dillon. Both of these already had a role in Smash Bros 4. Kamek appeared on the Mushroom Kingdom U stage to transform the stage around, while Dillon appeared as an Assist Trophy. While I appreciated both of their appearances in their own ways, I personally just enjoyed Dillon's inclusion more because he was much more interactable, much more part of the actual fight whenever he appeared. But in the end, both characters were fun to see in their own roles, Assist Trophy or otherwise.

No that would be a lot more than they have now. Event Matches are fun challenges that Smash fans appreciate. Giving a certain non-playable character their own event match is really cool.

Yeah, there's a bunch of Assist Trophy events they could think of. Not just fighting against them either. Could have you team up with one against a boss character maybe. Like, you're Simon, with Richter as your teammate, and Alucard is automatically summoned on your team while you take on all the monsters on Dracula's Castle. Or something a little more simple; you're in a simple match while the Arcade Bunny tries to grab people, and you have to make sure the AI is grabbed (and KO'd) first. I can see this being a thing in Ultimate.

 

[Koopaul]

True. And I guess that was the point of this topic, but my point still kinda stands because it really depends on how the developers would implement these characters. Like, Knuckles for example. Unless you were to look for him, chances are you would most likely miss him in the Green Hill Zone stage.

These little cameos are too minor and I would have appreciated it more if Knuckles or Tails were featured prominently in the background instead of quick small occasional run.

Yeah, of course it's impossible to miss. At first, while you're still in the zone of admiring details of each stage. But after a while, you just don't really pay attention to background characters anymore because you're so used to it.

That's fine. Appreciating it once is better than never appreciating it at all. Like what happens to most Assist Trophies. I'll explain later.

I'm merely saying that an Assist Trophy role isn't as bad of a fate for these characters as you're making it out to be.

Want to know why I think ATs are a sad fate? When I used to play Brawl with my friends, most of the time items were off or atleast Assist Trophies were off. The rare times we did play with items on, it was still quite uncommon the characters I liked would show up as an assist, and when they did the reaction is always the same... "Get this yellow thing out of my face." or "Who's this tiny boxer dude again?"

They didn't know who that boxer was and they didn't care. They've probably only saw Little Mac five times they've ever played Brawl. They didn't know his name, his series, nothing.

Then came Smash 4. Little Mac is a playable character. They think the guy is kickass and kind of hilarious that he can't jump. One of my friends got interested in Punch-Out because of Smash 4... Not Brawl. I reminded him that Little Mac was an AT in Brawl, he didn't seem to remember.

So yeah. Being an Assist means you practically don't exist to people who aren't fans of that character. People who are unfamiliar with the character will more than likely not remember them. Someone like Sukapon will only show up on that screen for 5 seconds and most people will be like "some random floating pink shapes are attacking me!"

Then there's the fact that being an Assist can ruin your reputation as a character depending on how terrible they are. Starfy was a great character from a great series but many people view him as a pathetic joke instead of a hero becuase his Assist Trophy is so weak, and he was the first AT that could get beaten up.

There's lots of negative attributes associated with Assists. Remember, most people aren't geeks like us. They probanly won't know or care who any of these people are. Until they are presented in a way that makes them more noticeable and seem more important.

Assist Trophy out of consideration, for a good bunch of the characters that do currently appear as such, specific stages would probably have to be made for them to even make sense to appear, because otherwise, what would you do with the Arcade Bunny, for example? Or the Excitebikes? Or the Sablé Prince? Among a good amount of others.

Make stages for them I guess. Why not? A Badge Arcade stage would probably be really cool.

Good luck finding roles for these types of characters if the Assist Trophy role doesn't exist.

Use your imagination. Arcade Bunny could be the host and shop keeper at the Trophy store, where you can purchase Trophies. Dr. Wright can appear as the character who hosts the stage builder mode. Giving tips and advice. There's lots of ways you can insert the characters into Smash and make people notice them.

I personally just enjoyed Dillon's inclusion more because he was much more interactable, much more part of the actual fight whenever he appeared. But in the end, both characters were fun to see in their own roles, Assist Trophy or otherwise.

Well I'm glad you feel that way but it certainly didn't help Dillon at all. Dead Heat Breakers bombed and most people still don't know who he is.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I dont even use items, so assist trophies are jsut a waste for me, and many others who dont use them! Id much prefer to have no assist trophies in exchange for like 5 more characters.

Edit: but since we are where we are, i was thinking, what if it was possible to unlock assist trophies as playable characters if they have amiibo you can buy? Thats like having a dlc character, and it makes it feel like we're bringing the trophy to life using its amiibo.


Edit 2: I just read the OP in more detail, and i realized this post is a bit off topic lol. How would i re-purpose them? Ive mentioned this before.. there could be an assist trophy battle mode where you can fight assist trophies in a kind of all star mode, or 100 man melee.

Another way to use assist trophies differently could be to have a mode where you can pick 1-3 assist trophies you can use as assists during your fight. So everyone gets to pick the assists they want (only assists that can be fought and killed) and then with the press of a button they can call their assist to help them out in a time of need.

 

[Koopaul]

Oh that is a pretty awesome idea! Just like they allow Final Smashes to be accessed via a special mode maybe assists can be summoned the same way.

But I do like the idea of amiibos for Assist Trophies too.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

One or more traditional fighter assists that the player chooses before a game. I made a thread about this before.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

One or more traditional fighter assists that the player chooses before a game. I made a thread about this before.

oh i see.. my bad lol

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

oh i see.. my bad lol

? as long as the idea gets support, w/e. It's just annoying my op didn't get much attention from people who agree.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

? as long as the idea gets support, w/e. It's just annoying my op didn't get much attention from people who agree.

can u link me? ill go support!

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

can u link me? ill go support!

Lol, sure. Here you go: https://smashboards.com/threads/assist-trophies-as-actual-assists.456649/