Getting the kill with Greninja

elliotnz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
124
3DS FC
0662-5906-3244
#1
Wow he sure is fun, but how do I get the kill with this character?

I always have this problem with speedy lightweights which is why I use Ike
 
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MartinAW4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
312
#2
Wow he sure is fun, but how do I get the kill with this character?

I always have this problem with speedy lightweights which is why I use Ike
You need to pay close attention to the percents. Your best and earliest kill confirm starts killing around 90% vs mid weights and works until around 110%. So in that range, use your Dtilt a bit more. If you land one you can then kill with Dtilt > Usmash.

Around the same % range, Sourspot Nair > Usmash also works and Nair is easier to use in neutral than Dtilt. And effective way to land one is going for RAR Nairs on shields to land behind the opponent and then pressure the shield from behind using Dtilts. If either of your moves land, you can kill with Usmash.

Above 110% you have Dtilt > Fair or Nair > Fair and a bit higher even Dthrow > RAR Bair kills. Utilt Uair is also a kill confirm at around 120+%. And if percents get too high (should not happen often because any stray hit from Fair kills quite early), you have 2 kill throws in Uthrow and Fthrow, the optimal DI for one being the worst DI for the other so mixing it up can lead to killing even sooner.

Ftilt is another good safe kill move at high percents (140+%) as well.

Or if the opponent gets a bit predictable or uses slower projectiles, Substitute can kill from anywhere at 110+% and can really surprise the opponent if you haven't used it yet.

Shadow Sneak is buffed in damage, killing sooner than most Smashes and works better for punishing projectiles, landings or just catching someone in the air since people airdodge a lot less in this game. You can also use it out of shield.

Greninja probably has the most kill confirms in the game. Pretty much each of its moves used in neutral lead to a kill move:
Nair > Fair or Usmash
Uair dragdown > Jab lock > Fsmash or Dtilt > Usmash
First 2 hist of Bair > Dsmash
Dtilt > Fair or Usmash
Utilt > Uair
Dash Attack > Fair or Uair
Dthrow > RAR Bair

The timings are tight though, so you need to have them well practiced in advance, so that whenever you land a hit, you can immediately follow up with the correct kill move.
 
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Mon-E

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
36
3DS FC
1650-3575-4636
#3
Try to get Gimps. Especially if nothing else is working for you.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
64
#4
You need to pay close attention to the percents. Your best and earliest kill confirm starts killing around 90% vs mid weights and works until around 110%. So in that range, use your Dtilt a bit more. If you land one you can then kill with Dtilt > Usmash.

Around the same % range, Sourspot Nair > Usmash also works and Nair is easier to use in neutral than Dtilt. And effective way to land one is going for RAR Nairs on shields to land behind the opponent and then pressure the shield from behind using Dtilts. If either of your moves land, you can kill with Usmash.

Above 110% you have Dtilt > Fair or Nair > Fair and a bit higher even Dthrow > RAR Bair kills. Utilt Uair is also a kill confirm at around 120+%. And if percents get too high (should not happen often because any stray hit from Fair kills quite early), you have 2 kill throws in Uthrow and Fthrow, the optimal DI for one being the worst DI for the other so mixing it up can lead to killing even sooner.

Ftilt is another good safe kill move at high percents (140+%) as well.

Or if the opponent gets a bit predictable or uses slower projectiles, Substitute can kill from anywhere at 110+% and can really surprise the opponent if you haven't used it yet.

Shadow Sneak is buffed in damage, killing sooner than most Smashes and works better for punishing projectiles, landings or just catching someone in the air since people airdodge a lot less in this game. You can also use it out of shield.

Greninja probably has the most kill confirms in the game. Pretty much each of its moves used in neutral lead to a kill move:
Nair > Fair or Usmash
Uair dragdown > Jab lock > Fsmash or Dtilt > Usmash
First 2 hist of Bair > Dsmash
Dtilt > Fair or Usmash
Utilt > Uair
Dash Attack > Fair or Uair
Dthrow > RAR Bair

The timings are tight though, so you need to have them well practiced in advance, so that whenever you land a hit, you can immediately follow up with the correct kill move.
I do want to reiterate that you should be paying close attention to percents, especially around 80% and up.

You covered just about everything so I'll just comment about Substitute. THIS MOVE KILLS. Lightweights will die at around 90+%, midweights 100+%, and heavies will die at 120+%. The trick is to aim UP, meaning you can kill from center stage if your opponent is playing well vs. your fairs and other kill confirms. Also, it's worth trying to KO with this move off-stage as well. If you intercept an Up-B (Links, Fox, etc...) and point DOWN, you will spike your opponent. If you still have your jump then you can still recover. It's not a bad kamikaze/trade in a last-stock situation either. Be careful on stages with walls as a smart opponent may be able to tech the spike (in this case, aim OUTWARD).

Personally, I find myself going for less grabs because Dtilt or Nair is generally safer. You can net some easy KO's with Bair off stage as well. Bair is great for stage-spiking but smarter opponents will definitely tech the hit. Lastly, perhaps the hardest way to net KOs is to utilize Hydro Pump. This will take the most practice but it can put opponents high in the air, setting up for easy charged Fsmash KOs.
 

Glicnak

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
111
#5
Shadow Sneak is buffed in damage, killing sooner than most Smashes and works better for punishing projectiles, landings or just catching someone in the air since people airdodge a lot less in this game. You can also use it out of shield.

Greninja probably has the most kill confirms in the game. Pretty much each of its moves used in neutral lead to a kill move:
Nair > Fair or Usmash
Uair dragdown > Jab lock > Fsmash or Dtilt > Usmash
First 2 hist of Bair > Dsmash
Dtilt > Fair or Usmash
Utilt > Uair
Dash Attack > Fair or Uair
Dthrow > RAR Bair

The timings are tight though, so you need to have them well practiced in advance, so that whenever you land a hit, you can immediately follow up with the correct kill move.
Isn't Uair dragdown techable? And if i understand the new tech mechanics in this game (you can hold shield to groundtech instead of timing it), your opponent can just hold shield and will always tech the dragdown. Is the landing lag on ffUair even fast enough that you can reliably get a tech chase? Because if so you could at least get Uair dragdown -- jab lock or tech chase -- dash -- fair/uair
 

MartinAW4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
312
#6
Isn't Uair dragdown techable? And if i understand the new tech mechanics in this game (you can hold shield to groundtech instead of timing it), your opponent can just hold shield and will always tech the dragdown. Is the landing lag on ffUair even fast enough that you can reliably get a tech chase? Because if so you could at least get Uair dragdown -- jab lock or tech chase -- dash -- fair/uair
Yes, that's the benefit of dragdown Uair combos vs footstool combos that even if the opponent manages to tech the Uair dragdown, you still have enough time after your Jab to follow any way they tech and cover them with Dash Attack which then leads to more combos. Even another Uair dragdown to repeat the situation until the opponent either decides not to tech or techs towards the ledge to break the Dash Attack combos.

But if they are teching that predictably, you can chase them with running Dtilt into Fair near the ledge which kills pretty early.
 
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