Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I've seen people (on /r/SmashBros) saying the leaker finally announced this was fake. Also the date for this possible direct was apparently changed to July 22 instead.

Edit: The OP made a mistake and both dates are for different streams, so they're both valid.

Another leak talking about K. Rool and Dixie "replaced" it and contains info on the FunkoPop deal with Nintendo. But again, some people were saying that this has been known for a few days sooo...

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...do_direct_for_july_22nd_leaked_with_evidence/

It's far too much of a "everybody's dreams comes true" scenario to be realistic anyways. Odyssey Delfino DLC? Funky. Birdo, and Diddy returning to Kart all at once? Mother 3 getting a 3D remake? Fallout 76, KH3, and Cuphead getting ports?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

As much as I'm cool with that leak it's off for me it's too hopeful lol to say the least to many things people would want if ya catch my meaning. That don't sound like the Nintendo I know sure there kinda different now in the switch era but I'll never forget there Wii u days games no one asked for and most disappointments all around.

 

[Hydewell]

To be fair, I wouldn't call DD a "failure". It could easily have been more successful though, I'll give you that, but since Nintendo showed no support to promote the game, well...
I mean come on, some Golden Sun fans were not even aware of DD's existence four years after its release. The relatively inferior quality of the game compared to the GBA ones doesn't explain everything.

It didn't arrive at 1 million in a handheld which sold at that time like... 100 millions? so yeah, it was a bit failure.
There wasn't a good marketing campaign. But DD was presented in the E3 as one of the principal titles (I still remember that moment...), so it wasn't like they launched the title without saying anything.
I can understand the title was heavily punished by the piracy and the bad-mouth. But still... it underperformed.

For example, I'm sure Xenoblade did bad in terms of sales (because of the horrible distribution) but it was a title had a huge expectation and was praised by everybody... and that managed to continue the franchise.

I've seen people (on /r/SmashBros) saying the leaker finally announced this was fake. Also the date for this possible direct was apparently changed to July 22 instead.

Edit: The OP made a mistake and both dates are for different streams, so they're both valid.

Another leak talking about K. Rool and Dixie "replaced" it and contains info on the FunkoPop deal with Nintendo. But again, some people were saying that this has been known for a few days sooo...

Edit: Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...do_direct_for_july_22nd_leaked_with_evidence/

It's funny because the first post has two evidences that could mean to be true: the funko pops and the Mario Kart 8 DLC (in a recent interview, Shinya Takahashi has said there will be more updates for this game). But the second post is all bull****. Cuphead coming to Switch? FFVII REMAKE to switch? KINGDOM HEARTS 3?

Maybe there was two guys, the first one being a true leaker and the second one being a random guy who posted that because he was trolling. But well, the first post has Mother 3, so...

 

[StormC]

Maybe there was two guys, the first one being a true leaker and the second one being a random guy who posted that because he was trolling. But well, the first post has Mother 3, so...

The posts were a minute apart almost exactly, so it's very unlikely. Someone would have to grab an image of Diddy, upload it, and make up fake text within a minute or less. /v/ moves so fast that scenario borders on impossible.

 

[Billybae10K]

The wishlist leak definitely feels sketchy. If there is a Direct on the 22nd, I'd expect a few things from that leak to end up coming to pass, with a bunch of wishlist stuff thrown in to hype up people who believe it before a potential direct.

And I'd be pretty stoked if Isaac was DLC for Ultimate. Sure, we want him in the base game as the dream, but if he were announced as DLC he'd get the spotlight all to himself on his announcement as he'd probably be one of the few additions at that point in DLC so it could work wonders for him, just as much as him being in the base game.

That being said, it really depends on what Sakurai's views on DLC will be this time around. If he's not as interested in gaining new third parties, there's only so many first party characters to choose from that could become a fighter and also create enough hype to justify their DLC inclusion. Because if people don't know the character, there's less chance of them buying that DLC.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

The wishlist leak definitely feels sketchy. If there is a Direct on the 22nd, I'd expect a few things from that leak to end up coming to pass, with a bunch of wishlist stuff thrown in to hype up people who believe it before a potential direct.

And I'd be pretty stoked if Isaac was DLC for Ultimate. Sure, we want him in the base game as the dream, but if he were announced as DLC he'd get the spotlight all to himself on his announcement as he'd probably be one of the few additions at that point in DLC so it could work wonders for him, just as much as him being in the base game.

That being said, it really depends on what Sakurai's views on DLC will be this time around. If he's not as interested in gaining new third parties, there's only so many first party characters to choose from that could become a fighter and also create enough hype to justify their DLC inclusion. Because if people don't know the character, there's less chance of them buying that DLC.

I mean, he'd be a ballot inclusion so it's not like he couldn't sell, but there are many faces more recognizable that they'd prefer to sell for a better profit gain. I could only see him as DLC if he was planned for the base game but had to be held off because of him having lower priority which led to time constraints.

Base game is the more likely option but I wouldn't lose all hope right away.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry for not uploading a comic yesterday:

To slightly misquote a more-than-slightly unreliable radio host:

“You’re going to have disagreements, of course. Little disputes. Sometimes big disputes! Enormous ones. But you get over those things. You forgive and forget…only to retract both and be filled with passive-aggressive rage and unrelenting memories of the pain brought upon you. Such are the difficulties of the RPG hero’s life.”

 

[NessAtc.]

I personally don't think there was a theme to the smash 4 dlc, Sakurai just added whoever he felt would work out and Corrin

 

[Skyblade12]

Picked up Octopath Traveler. Hopefully the success of traditional JRPGs (combined with good fan response on the ballot) will convince Nintendo to give Golden Sun another chance.

 

[Organization XIII]

I picked up Octopath traveler as well. My reasons weren't anything so noble though. I just bought it because I love turn based RPGs. I did buy Mario Tennis Aces in the hopes of more GS though.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Picked up Octopath Traveler. Hopefully, the success of traditional JRPGs (combined with good fan response on the ballot) will convince Nintendo to give Golden Sun another chance.

I'm super jelly my copy was supposed to be here today I hope you enjoy

 

[Skyblade12]

I picked up Octopath traveler as well. My reasons weren't anything so noble though. I just bought it because I love turn based RPGs. I did buy Mario Tennis Aces in the hopes of more GS though.

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I bought the game because it looks and plays great. I’m just hoping Nintendo will realize “people still like turn based RPGs”.

I stayed awake late to go pick up the Wayfarer’s Edition.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

It didn't arrive at 1 million in a handheld which sold at that time like... 100 millions? so yeah, it was a bit failure.
There wasn't a good marketing campaign. But DD was presented in the E3 as one of the principal titles (I still remember that moment...), so it wasn't like they launched the title without saying anything.
I can understand the title was heavily punished by the piracy and the bad-mouth. But still... it underperformed.

For example, I'm sure Xenoblade did bad in terms of sales (because of the horrible distribution) but it was a title had a huge expectation and was praised by everybody... and that managed to continue the franchise.

Dark Dawn also released late into the DS's lifespan three months before the launch of the 3DS. I feel like the game would've fared better if it was modified to be an early 3DS game during development, the first Golden Sun benefited from being one of the earlier JRPGs to be of such a high quality for the GBA. The summons would've looked so amazing with the 3D effect and it would've also given the time to maybe improve it a bit. It would've also been easier to make the sequel to DD on the same console rather than having the problem of having to make the fourth game on a more technically superior console where development costs would be higher

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Dark Dawn also released late into the DS's lifespan three months before the launch of the 3DS. I feel like the game would've fared better if it was modified to be an early 3DS later in development, the first Golden Sun benefited from being one of the earlier JRPGs to be of such a high quality for the GBA. The summons would've looked so amazing with the 3D effect and it would've also given the time to maybe improve it a bit. It would've also been easier to make the sequel to DD on the same console rather than having the problem of having to make the fourth game on a more technically superior console where development costs would be higher

Would it be a good idea to remake all 3 games on switch?

 

[Skyblade12]

Would it be a good idea to remake all 3 games on switch?

Yes.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Yes.

It's a no-brainer, really. You want to bring the series back into the public eye and attract newcomers? Remake the critically acclaimed GBA duology. You want to go back and fix up the continuation to that story for the sake of longtime fans and the sake of being able to move forward with it? You then remake Dark Dawn.

You've got the hardware to make it great, and you've got the install base to make it popular. Easy money for Camelot assuming that they do it right.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

It's a no-brainer, really. You want to bring the series back into the public eye and attract newcomers? Remake the critically acclaimed GBA duology. You want to go back and fix up the continuation to that story for the sake of longtime fans and the sake of being able to move forward with it? You then remake Dark Dawn.

You've got the hardware to make it great, and you've got the install base to make it popular. Easy money for Camelot assuming that they do it right.

As a person who's only played dark dawn i don't know what they did wrong was it the story were there continuity errors I'm truly confused cuz I never really understood

 

[Idon]

As a person who's only played dark dawn i don't know what they did wrong was it the story were there continuity errors I'm truly confused cuz I never really understood

I think they mean, remake Dark Dawn so people have a refresher for what happened during that game and set up the sequel that they really oughta make and finish the story ie "fix the continuation"

 

[Billybae10K]

As a person who's only played dark dawn i don't know what they did wrong was it the story were there continuity errors I'm truly confused cuz I never really understood

The story in Dark Dawn has a lot of continuity errors with the world from the GBA games. Despite the fact that you could explore the entire world in The Lost Age, in Dark Dawn they talked about civilisations that had been around for centuries that were clearly not around during the Lost Age.

And on the gameplay side of things, the fact that there were points of no-return that locked Djinn and Summons away for good was also something people didn't enjoy.

 

[Hydewell]

A lot of the errors can be fixed with a remake that has some elements of that civilisations, or even these civilisations could be mentioned in some random book of the Lemuria's library.

When I think about a remake, I always consider if they would do a duology or they would do a remake of the 1st one and, if they have success, they would continue. For us, a duology would be perfect but the game would be so long and have differents assets I don't think it would be viable (unless it have a really big budget), and also, it would take ages to do it. But remaking only the first part would cause people complain like Dark Dawn because it wouldn't finish the story (and also, like DD, the first game was a bit short).

And on the gameplay side of things, the fact that there were points of no-return that locked Djinn and Summons away ...

And weapons... I only left the one that was in the boat, I couldn't see its unleashing :'(

 

[Diddy Kong]

Picked up Octopath Traveler. Hopefully the success of traditional JRPGs (combined with good fan response on the ballot) will convince Nintendo to give Golden Sun another chance.

I surely hope this as well.

Then again, am not too sure yet if Nintendo is willing to work on other franchises beyond whats in their "comfort zone". They can't even really handle their IPs as Donkey Kong, Star Fox and F-Zero well. Am not too confident that it will happen on it's own honestly unless they'll launch a crazy sort of "which franchise needs a revival" poll or so, and Golden Sun manages to top it somehow.

The love for old skool JRPGs helps, and since Fire Emblem and Pokemon are evolving enough to become more of their own genre completely, Nintendo COULD invest in Golden Sun yet again to create a solid "pure JRPG" type of franchise. Otherwise, have fun being overrun by Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

 

[Falgor]

The story in Dark Dawn has a lot of continuity errors with the world from the GBA games. Despite the fact that you could explore the entire world in The Lost Age, in Dark Dawn they talked about civilisations that had been around for centuries that were clearly not around during the Lost Age.

And on the gameplay side of things, the fact that there were points of no-return that locked Djinn and Summons away for good was also something people didn't enjoy.

Nah, sorry but the "civilizations" that were not around during The Lost Age make perfect sense: In the GBA games they are already there, you just don't see them because they didn't put "useless" places for the story in a GBA game with technical limitations (A game with like 30 towns in the entire world is not much better going by that logic). That's also why you don't see all the previous cities that were there in The Broken Seal in Dark Dawn.

Dark Dawn has problems, but this isn't one of them.

 

[N3ON]

So Octopath is out now. It's reviewing well, it'll sell really well, and it'll inspire confidence in Nintendo to give their own classic RPG series another shot.

This is what I choose to believe.

 

[Billybae10K]

Nah, sorry but the "civilizations" that were not around during The Lost Age make perfect sense: In the GBA games they are already there, you just don't see them because they didn't put "useless" places for the story in a GBA game with technical limitations (A game with like 30 towns in the entire world is not much better going by that logic). That's also why you don't see all the previous cities that were there in The Broken Seal in Dark Dawn.

Dark Dawn has problems, but this isn't one of them.

I don't think that's fair logic though. While they may not have been relevant in the Lost Age, things like the Alchemy Well, the entire beastman civilisation, Ayuthay, etc, sprouted out of thin air after no reference or explanation in the first two games. The problem here is that Golden Sun 2 put the entire world on display. Every single location, every single continent, there were no stones left unturned.

But suddenly come Golden Sun 3, there's tons of unexplored stuff that never showed up at all, despite the selling point of 2 being its open world where you literally explore the entire world and its edges. I understand your point from a game dev's perspective, but that just doesn't fly when it comes to the internal lore of the franchise from the perspective of the characters themselves.

 

[LasermasterA]

Yea I agree. It was bit odd after playing Golden Sun 2, to see all this civilizations that have supposedly been around since "forever". Like the Alchemy Well, the city of Ayuthay and Passaj, etc. Also the whole back story with adepts and non-adepts working together which wasn't even hinted at in the past games. Although we did know that being an adept wasn't meant to be flaunted (as in, it was supposed to be kept a secret), and how non adepts couldn't see adept powers.

It just felt weird to get all that backstory without any hints in GS1+2, so it looked like all those civilizations just sprouted up in 30 years. Same with the beastmen, where we just saw a single village in GS2 but now they have a whole civilization going on. If they make a remake of GS1+2, I'd want them to atleast hint towards such things to make the progression smoother from the original duology to Dark Dawn.

Anyways, whoever has gotten their hands on Octopath, I hope you enjoy it (I don't have a switch yet) and its sales encourage Nintendo to pursue classical RPG series like Golden Sun instead of just the modern RPGs like Xenoblade.

 

[Kisae]

I personally think they should make a reboot of the two first GS games and making connections to what Dark Dawn brought to the series ,like including all those civilizations they included like the Jenei people. For exemple explainging those where the creators of the Lighthouses etc.

The Beast people were merely included in TLA with the werewolf village Garoh (French name i don't know in others languages). The people of Garoh could have moves to another continent since the Golden Sun raised.

Having replayed DarkDawn in Let's Play/Walkthrough for my Youtube Channel i saw it's imperfections but it also brought more informations,races etc that could have possibly been awakened in the 30 years bewtween TLA and DD.

 

[Hydewell]

To give some data of how is selling Octopath Traveller:
In amazon:
US: #4 (sold out), the 3 firsts aren't software. (since its launching, it becomes the #33 most sold during this year, only having 10 titles before it)
JP: #3
UK: #1
FR: #1 (sold out)
ES: #1
GE: #6 (the first five are PS cards).
CA: #1
MX: #1

Also, in Japan the stores has run out of physical copies and the developers tweeted it would be better to buy it digitally because they don't know when they can restock.

So yeah, it seems it has been a huge success. Let's see if Nintendo understand there are market for a classic RPG and invest some money.

 

[SonicLink125]

It would be a dream of ours to see. Isaac is a new fighter in Smash. Which leads to interest for a new GoldenSun game. Then they make a remaster of GoldenSun 1+2+3 for the Switch to also introduce newcomers to the series. GoldenSun 4 is out which helps tie up Dark Dawn. "GOLDENSUN IS MAKING A COMEBACK!" Camelot plans a new GoldenSun game that takes place years before the first game since the did say that The Broken Seal and The Lost Age were Prologues of a bigger story. And so on and so fourth. *sigh* I hope that dream comes true...

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Recently on Twitter alot of people have been sharing their desire for an Octopath style Golden Sun game that I have been retweeting alot even from popular YouTubers like Gnoggin that I've been retweeting on the account which is really awesome to see. I want to try see if I can find someone that can make mockup fanart of what Golden Sun can look like in the Octopath style to make the demand more widespread and hopefully convince more people on the possibilities.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Recently on Twitter alot of people have been sharing their desire for an Octopath style Golden Sun game that I have been retweeting alot even from popular YouTubers like Gnoggin that I've been retweeting on the account which is really awesome to see. I want to try see if I can find someone that can make mockup fanart of what Golden Sun can look like in the Octopath style to make the demand more widespread and hopefully convince more people on the possibilities.

I'm glad people are already seeing the potential so quickly. Heck, even just having people talking about Golden Sun in this way is an encouraging sign for the size of its fanbase. If Camelot wants to remake Golden Sun without completely ditching its old identity, this is a great way to do it. I'm planning to pick up Octopath fairly soon, and maybe a few tweets on potential concepts for a game in this style can help fuel the storm for this idea.

 

[Deleted member]

Good too see Octopath traveler doing great. Hopefully Golden Sun reaches these heights again someday.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a no-brainer, really. You want to bring the series back into the public eye and attract newcomers? Remake the critically acclaimed GBA duology. You want to go back and fix up the continuation to that story for the sake of longtime fans and the sake of being able to move forward with it? You then remake Dark Dawn.

You've got the hardware to make it great, and you've got the install base to make it popular. Easy money for Camelot assuming that they do it right.

So..............Golden Sun: The N Sane Trilogy?

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

So..............Golden Sun: The N Sane Trilogy?

I can already imagine the boxart now

 

[Deleted member]

I can already imagine the boxart now
View attachment 153171

Truly "The Dark Souls of RPGs".

 

[Falgor]

Apparently, Hiroshi Kajiyama, an illustrator and character designer at Camelot, who worked on the two GBA Golden Sun games and on the Shining Force series before, just died...
His son published a tweet to announce it:

【訃報】息子です。
父、梶山浩こと、鈴木健介が逝去されました。
代理として、謹んで報告させていただきます。

— 梶山浩@「カースブラッド」第１巻発売中＆お仕事募集中 (@KAJIYAMA_) July 14, 2018

He didn't work on Dark Dawn according to his Wikipedia page (I only found one in French for some reason) so I think he wasn't working for Camelot anymore, but knowing that someone important who worked on my favorite games of all times died... Well let's just say a part of my childhood died a little bit too.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet but I noticed that Isaac is currently #1 on the Source Gaming Ballot poll. (if you remove characters that have already got in)

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/08/sgpollingresults1/

 

[KMDP]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet but I noticed that Isaac is currently #1 on the Source Gaming Ballot poll. (if you remove characters that have already got in)

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/08/sgpollingresults1/

Isaac was number one in the first Source Gaming Ballot Poll too, after taking out the Veterans and Inklings (I can't remember if Ridley was on it or not, I assume they took him off because of the whole Pyrosphere thing). He even came above K. Rool (K. Rool had more votes, but Isaac's votes trended towards being more positive).

EDIT: Oh, you and I are talking about the same ballot poll. XD This is the most recent one (Isaac's still Top 15).

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Isaac was number one in the first Source Gaming Ballot Poll too, after taking out the Veterans and Inklings (I can't remember if Ridley was on it or not, I assume they took him off because of the whole Pyrosphere thing). He even came above K. Rool (K. Rool had more votes, but Isaac's votes trended towards being more positive).

EDIT: Oh, you and I are talking about the same ballot poll. XD This is the most recent one (Isaac's still Top 15).

I'm not as worried about the latest one. Since what really matters is what public opinion was like back when the ballot was running. (and more importantly when Sakurai was deciding on Ultimates roster)

Aside from dlc I guess, though I think the ballot could still influence that.

 

[KMDP]

I'm not as worried about the latest one. Since what really matters is what public opinion was like back when the ballot was running. (and more importantly when Sakurai was deciding on Ultimates roster)

Aside from dlc I guess, though I think the ballot could still influence that.

Well, if you move the goalposts and discard disconfirmed characters and third parties, Isaac is 4th place in the most recent SG Poll.

EDIT: It's true that Isaac being on top of SG's poll could bode well for his chances in Ultimate, though. *crosses fingers*

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Well, if you move the goalposts and discard disconfirmed characters and third parties, Isaac is 4th place in the most recent SG Poll.

EDIT: It's true that Isaac being on top of SG's poll could bode well for his chances in Ultimate, though. *crosses fingers*

I don't think it's unreasonable to exclude characters that already got in or have been disconfirmed since they're no longer in the running.

I wouldn't remove 3rd parties just because they're 3rd parties though.