Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Tetiro · Sep 20, 2018

Mehdow said:
I just need some news about a incoming direct at the end of September or a surprise character reveal at TGS or something. I can't think in waiting maybe 2 months to know something about Isaac as I'm spending most of my day here just waiting and talking about it :<

At least these last days we had a lot of new stuff to talk about (108 corocoro, box art, alt-costumes renders...). Everyday I'm waiting what will come next.

Well in 78 days we will know of Isaac's fate regardless of announcement or not.

Can't believe it is just 2 and a half months until the game's release

Mehdow · Sep 20, 2018

Tetiro said:
Well in 78 days we will know of Isaac's fate regardless of announcement or not.

Can't believe it is just 2 and a half months until the game's release

And it looks like it was yesterday when I saw "only 100 days until launch!"..... that was almost a month ago? holy sh...

Luigifan18 · Sep 20, 2018

jweb23 said:
So...I had an idea for the final reveal trailer for Smash Ultimate! It would happen during a Smash direct and Sakurai would say it's the final trailer to make everyone think it's just one character but it's actually two!

The trailer starts off by showing us two large doors of what appears to be a giant stadium, there is also a large video screen over the doors that say "Smash Ultimate" and we hear the various sounds of video game footsteps as the camera turns around and we see the flaming Smash logo with the silhouettes of every revealed character so far walking up to the door. (Clearly paying homage to the original reveal trailer of the game)

If you look close at the silhouettes you see that Mario is holding something. The camera pans around as we see various shots of the characters looking around at each other. Laughter is heard in the distance as Master Hand and Crazy Hand float down. Master Hand knocks on the door as Crazy Hand appears to be counting everyone, but struggling to do so. The screen over the doors changes text too, "Is Everyone Here?" and two text bubbles pop up with "Yes" and "No" but suddenly the text bubbles change into the Golden Sun yes or no images as we hear another pair of footsteps running up to the group. It's Isaac with the tagline, "Isaac Makes His Move!" and we get a gameplay trailer of Isaac's moveset. Isaac's trailer ends and we cut back to the characters in the cgi trailer, as Master Hand gives Isaac a thumbs up and Isaac creates a psynergy hand to give a thumbs up back. Master Hand and Crazy Hand both push the two large doors open and the characters start to walk in as we see Link, Marth and Shulk congratulating Isaac while Pichu seems to be scared of Flint and runs away from him.

As the characters all go into the stadium we see that Cloud isn't moving and is looking back at something. Behind Cloud we see that Peach, Luigi and Bowser have stopped by the door and turn around to see what Cloud is looking at. In the distance we see Mario gently placing whatever he was holding down on the ground. Mario appears to be sad and lets out a sigh as he pulls his hat down to cover his eyes and begins walking towards the door. As Mario almost passes Cloud, Cloud stops him. Peach, Luigi and Bowser look up towards the sky as a light shines on their faces. Cloud is smiling while Mario looks shocked as a shooting star falls onto the puppet Mario was holding. Geno pops up to his feet with the tagline, "Geno Finally Arrives!" and we get his gameplay trailer.

After the gameplay trailer we cut back to the cgi trailer as Geno and Mario embrace! Mario, Cloud and Geno walk towards the open doors as the camera pans up to the screen and it reads, "EVERYONE IS HERE!"

Hope you liked it. I kind of have the feeling Isaac and Geno are the last reveals. Hope we don't have to wait that long though...

OMG. Please put that in the trailer thread!

Xenigma · Sep 20, 2018

Tetiro said:
Well in 78 days we will know of Isaac's fate regardless of announcement or not.

Can't believe it is just 2 and a half months until the game's release

In terms of the surreal aspects of this game, the idea that it is a mere 9 months from announcement to release is one of the easier ones to forget about. It wasn't that long ago that people were wondering if it was even a new game, and just like that we are on the cusp of by far the craziest Smash release ever with every reason to believe it will only get crazier.

TempestSurge · Sep 20, 2018

Xenigma said:
In terms of the surreal aspects of this game, the idea that it is a mere 9 months from announcement to release is one of the easier ones to forget about. It wasn't that long ago that people were wondering if it was even a new game, and just like that we are on the cusp of by far the craziest Smash release ever with every reason to believe it will only get crazier.

How much crazier can it get with only Incineroar and Ken left to reveal. :troll:

Flynn.Scifo · Sep 20, 2018

People will definitely cry tears of joy when Ken is revealed ... woohoo ... y..yeaa ... that's so wild ... :drsad:

No seriously Ken sounds like a nice little bonus not a reveal people will be mega hyped for.

Tetiro · Sep 20, 2018

Flynn.Scifo said:
People will definitely cry tears of joy when Ken is revealed ... woohoo ... y..yeaa ... that's so wild ...

No seriously Ken sounds like a nice little bonus not a reveal people will be mega hyped for.

I'm surprised he wasn't in Wii U/3DS honestly. Isn't Ken a clone of Ryu in Street Fighter? At the very least a costume was expected. Just a bit odd that's all

Mehdow · Sep 20, 2018

To be honest I was REALLY dissapointed when I saw that the E3 was 90% a smash Direct thinking this time it was to a copy-pasted 3DS/WiiU version.... I was so wrong about it.

In the 8/8 Direct my hype grew to unknown limits and now I'm even more hyped than before due Isaac (and Banjo and maybe Skull Kid) having the possibility to be in.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Flynn.Scifo · Sep 20, 2018

I don't know about you but I'm not super excited for 3r party getting more echoes or second characters since I see them more like special guests in the first place. But yea It's not like Ken would be very hard to make.

pholtos · Sep 20, 2018

Flynn.Scifo said:
People will definitely cry tears of joy when Ken is revealed ... woohoo ... y..yeaa ... that's so wild ...

No seriously Ken sounds like a nice little bonus not a reveal people will be mega hyped for.

That's the main crux of my argument against the stupid third dimension square object theory.

Cause clearly a Ryu echo and a ninth

pokemon are maximum hype, would totally make me feel more excited to get the game as early as I possibly can. Yep.

Tetiro · Sep 20, 2018

Flynn.Scifo said:
I don't know about you but I'm not super excited for 3r party getting more echoes or second characters since I see them more like special guests in the first place. But yea It's not like Ken would be very hard to make.

As much effort as it would take to go to the paintshop and buy some red and yellow paint

osby · Sep 20, 2018

pholtos said:
That's the main crux of my argument against the stupid third dimension square object theory.

Cause clearly a Ryu echo and a ninth pokemon are maximum hype, would totally make me feel more excited to get the game as early as I possibly can. Yep.

I mean, if you didn't decided to buy the game until now, it's kinda late for it.

pholtos · Sep 20, 2018

osby said:
I mean, if you didn't decided to buy the game until now, it's kinda late for it.

I have plans to buy the game, but depending on how things go, I might hold off on getting ultimate for a while.

That's how much I'm hopeful that Isaac is finally in. That's how unhyped I am if all that's left are the two weakest possible reveals of the potential list of reveals for ultimate.

Confirmation · Sep 20, 2018

osby said:
I mean, if you didn't decided to buy the game until now, it's kinda late for it.

Difference between getting it now and waiting to see if you can get a Christmas / Black Friday deal or something. Isaac in would definitely be the push to "can't miss this" tier

Mehdow · Sep 20, 2018

osby said:
I mean, if you didn't decided to buy the game until now, it's kinda late for it.

I preordered the next day after the August Direct, seeing the "Everyone is here!" and thinking about my favourite characters being in finally....

MeatOfJustice · Sep 20, 2018

pholtos said:
Hey guys, found this via reddit. Fun little game. Can you name all the characters currently in smash ult?
They're alphabetical until you hit the ones revealed on August 8 and later. Those are at the end.
Had a heck of a time getting the last like 7, took a lot of brain wracking when I was down to one.
Took me a bit over 18 minutes, cause man that last one took me like 5+ minutes to figure out.
Periods are a thing, so if a character probably has a period in it, try it with a period in the right spot, also spaces.

It took me 8 minutes to remember everyone but Peach.

EricTheGamerman · Sep 20, 2018

pholtos said:
I have plans to buy the game, but depending on how things go, I might hold off on getting ultimate for a while.

That's how much I'm hopeful that Isaac is finally in. That's how unhyped I am if all that's left are the two weakest possible reveals of the potential list of reveals for ultimate.

I mean as a fan of Smash, what does holding off on buying the game like that achieve? You’re free to do whatever, but if Isaac was the only thing you wanted in this massive game that’d be a little odd. All the characters that ARE in are still perfectly enjoyable and playable, while we’ve seen a bunch of really enticing content from the game. Additionally, there’s a lot of game left to be revealed at this point, mode wise at least.

I guess I just don’t see the reason to hold off when it’s likely you’re going to enjoy it regardless (I am making the assumption that you’re a fan of Smash if here). Sure a character you support didn’t make it (I know, again...) and the hype cycle was all wrong for the game in terms of character reveals (assuming worst case scenario), but ignoring the rest of the game I would think only stands to hurt you as the player, right?

Not really criticizing as trying to understand, sorry if I come off perhaps a little hostile.

Kalaam · Sep 20, 2018

And then the last reveal is ... character workshop: if someone isn't here, add them yourself ! With full access to sfx and all.

Mike Cometa · Sep 20, 2018

I am currently playing Golden Sun (GBA for the first time) and it feels like Isaac will be a perfect fit for smash bros, he has more than enough of a moveset to be a really interesting and unique character.
So yeah i completely support him

TempestSurge · Sep 20, 2018

Tetiro said:
It's not that there is little competition. There is NONE. Isaac dominates it through and through. Even using fan support alone shows Isaac leaves the competition in the dust.

A small sprinkle of what I found below

Even here in the boards and using that Smash Poll Data it shows the sheer support for Isaac.

Smashboards
Isaac - Golden Sun
Lip - Panel de Pon
Takamaru - The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Springman - ARMS
Andy - Advance Wars
Chorus Kids - Rhythm Heaven
Ray - Custom Robo
Ayumi Tachibana - Famicom Tantei Club
Saki Amamiya - Sin & Punishment
Prince Sable - For the Frog the Bell Tolls on

SB4Dojo Smash Poll Data
Isaac - Golden Sun
Wonder Red - The Wonderful 101
Custom Robo
Chibi-Robo
Chorus Men - Rhythm Heaven
(There were only 5 new series that are first party on the spreadsheet!)

When it comes to Smash, regardless of what poll it is, Isaac is almost always the number #1 New Series character that is requested. That alone is the absolute most important thing going for us. If we have learned anything from Ultimate, it is Sakurai is going forward using the Ballot to alter his template. The template still remains

Previous Generation - Isabelle, Chrom
Same Franchises - Ridley, King K Rool, Daisy, Dark Samus
New Third Party - Simon, Richter
New First Party - Inklings, ???

Looking at the data, it is just a matter of when if not how or will?

Inklings being the only new first party rep so far just tacks on another reason why I'm so confident in Isaac. He's not only one of the biggest unrepped first party series in Smash but he's also highly requested and can guarantee performed well on the ballot, he kills two birds with one stone.

Also when you step out of these forums so fixated on box and stage theories, I watched a video of Nairo just excited to see some more newcomers vs echoes. A part of me kind of chuckled jokingly thinking, 'Well I got news for you buddy, we're in for just one more newcomer and echo.'

It kind of just shows me just in general knowing how much of a hype train Smash has always been, fans are expecting more newcomer reveals and Sakurai's never failed in that regard. Heck even my brother feels confident in rooting for Saki. I don't even bother bringing up any box or stage theory with him. The fun of smash has always been the hype regarding who will join the roster, the anticipation of reveals and supporting a character you love in the hopes of them making it in Smash.

Mehdow · Sep 20, 2018

Kalaam said:
And then the last reveal is ... character workshop: if someone isn't here, add them yourself ! With full access to sfx and all.

Next Direct: The green mode is called "Whatever": a set of tools that lets you create characters, AT and stages on PC and import them into the game. Official mod support.

Kalaam · Sep 20, 2018

Mehdow said:
Next Direct: The green mode is called "Whatever": a set of tools that lets you create characters, AT and stages on PC and import them into the game. Official mod support.

Kinda like mii fighters but with much, much more freedom. And probably some sort of test before releasing the character. Like having limits for balance (example, if you give them many strong hitting moves it raises their weight or stuff like that.)
Of course it most certainly won't happen, but that's a fun thought.

pholtos · Sep 20, 2018

EricTheGamerman said:
I mean as a fan of Smash, what does holding off on buying the game like that achieve? You’re free to do whatever, but if Isaac was the only thing you wanted in this massive game that’d be a little odd. All the characters that ARE in are still perfectly enjoyable and playable, while we’ve seen a bunch of really enticing content from the game. Additionally, there’s a lot of game left to be revealed at this point, mode wise at least.

I guess I just don’t see the reason to hold off when it’s likely you’re going to enjoy it regardless (I am making the assumption that you’re a fan of Smash if here). Sure a character you support didn’t make it (I know, again...) and the hype cycle was all wrong for the game in terms of character reveals (assuming worst case scenario), but ignoring the rest of the game I would think only stands to hurt you as the player, right?

Not really criticizing as trying to understand, sorry if I come off perhaps a little hostile.

I guess it comes down to me, like many, having waited for over 10 years, ever since Brawl, for Isaac to join the roster. Where this game's roster has been stated to be for the fans from the man himself.

...Only to find that Isaac is still ignored, despite the support he's had from many of us. It would just feel so deflating to have Isaac be ignored when everything seems like he'll finally be in. And if I feel like that, completely deflated? I'd have zero passion to play. I've waited...

Metocles · Sep 20, 2018

gspindles said:
Phew... finally caught up from page 420ish around the time of the direct

Here's a thought, for the remaining yet to be revealed fighters, what if they're mostly unique or semi clone (4-6 is my estimate), with only 1-2 echoes remaining?

So from what I hear, Sakurai would like to add as many unique newcomers as he can. But given time and resources constraint, that isn't possible, and things get cut here and there before release. Looking back at @Legendary Spirit Tamer's posts on page 208 (please read before continue), echoes are made clear that they do not take much development time and are more of a bonus, should we really be expecting 5+ echoes when that about equates the work needed for a unique / semi clone? I'm assuming that "Echo Fighter" is more of a make up marketing term after the development, rather than a fundamental classification made during ultimate's initial planning / conception.

Making up a hypothetical unit EC - short for "Echo unit" - to represent the development time and resources needed to make an echo fighter. i.e. an echo fighter requires 1 EC amount of work. Looking at smash4's echoes - and wise, the estimate is around:

5+ EC ~ 1 unique

maybe 2 to 3 EC ~ 1 semi clone

I'd guess that and took around the same amount of EC as smash4's echoes. Granted, Richter might be the exception as he and Simon were intended to be echoing each other.
and though, seem to require more, as has noticeable floatiness and animation work, while mixes it up by having up-b more similar to .
So not counting , current estimate is maybe 1 + 2 + 2 = 5 EC ~ 1 unique already. I know not everything adds up like that, (many unanticipated things come up during development, we do not know how they streamline character development process, and then there is balancing, etc...), but I can only see 1 or 2 more echoes remaining, not 4 to 5+, nor # of echoes ~ # of newcomers overall, as any more echoes than that and there could potentially have been enough EC floating around that could have gone towards creating a semi clone or unique fighter. Thoughts?

Sorry in advance if i failed to express what I'm trying to say clearly , but if the remaining direct(s) reveals mostly newcomers, that would be way way more hype than half of them being echoes.

Nice write-up, thank you. I think most of us would take unique newcomers over any echoes any day of the week. I like the idea of using the echo idea to perhaps include some borderline popular characters that people ask for. Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom clearly had ballot presence so I really don't mind them much at all. They've been asked about since Smash 4 and even longer, so I'm happy they're in. I agree though is that the hope is we don't go echo-crazy with everything.

I'm not a gigantic fan of Ken in this regard. I love the character in Street Fighter, don't get me wrong at all about that. Here as an echo? Eh...yay? For the record I feel that way somewhat for Shadow too. Though... he did have ballot presence unlike Ken so I don't mind too much. I think they should give Dixie the Isabelle semi-clone treatment honestly as she deserves it. Past that, I was never a fan of tacking on echo characters for the sake of tacking them on. I actually get a good laugh out of the youtube videos that go through the entire roster looking for an echo fighter for each one. For me, there needs to be a good reason that you add them because like you point out in your post. These things do still take effort to make and I'd rather not sacrifice a fantastic chance at getting a unique newcomer because we're busy worrying about getting Dr. Luigi in.

Mehdow · Sep 20, 2018

I'm not 100% sure but I think if Isaac doesn't get in this time, he will never be in. This game looks like a weird "fan-made" Smash where everything is allowed and in which fans have an actual "voice" that it's being listened.... And it really feels like it's even more true for characters never discussed before as a real possibility like Banjo or Skull Kid.

But I'm really positive about it. Because Sakurai thought in everything to please fans: old 3d model Ganondorf now with a sword, classic Zelda, Ridley & K.Rool, smash meter, new story mode, bringing back every old character, taking the ballot as a real way to put characters....

He's making the game as a fan and FOR fans, trying to please everyone. He knows about Isaac, he knows about the fans of Isaac........ and that screenshot.....

Tetiro · Sep 20, 2018

TempestSurge said:
Inklings being the only new first party rep so far just tacks on another reason why I'm so confident in Isaac. He's not only one of the biggest unrepped first party series in Smash but he's also highly requested and can guarantee performed well on the ballot, he kills two birds with one stone.

Also when you step out of these forums so fixated on box and stage theories, I watched a video of Nairo just excited to see some more newcomers vs echoes. A part of me kind of chuckled jokingly thinking, 'Well I got news for you buddy, we're in for just one more newcomer and echo.'

It kind of just shows me just in general knowing how much of a hype train Smash has always been, fans are expecting more newcomer reveals and Sakurai's never failed in that regard. Heck even my brother feels confident in rooting for Saki. I don't even bother bringing up any box or stage theory with him. The fun of smash has always been the hype regarding who will join the roster, the anticipation of reveals and supporting a character you love in the hopes of them making it in Smash.

Man the hype for Smash is always the best because you never know who is going to make it in and it can be anyone from Nintendo's history.

And I saw the stage and box theories and threw them out the window. Just because those sort of theories are never accurate and more importantly I live for the hype!

Gurein · Sep 20, 2018

Mehdow said:
He knows about Isaac, he knows about the fans of Isaac........ and that screenshot.....

About that... Logically if Isaac is in he would have played the two games at least once right? No way he doesn't know about the similarity.

TempestSurge · Sep 20, 2018

Mehdow said:
I'm not 100% sure but I think if Isaac doesn't get in this time, he will never be in. This game looks like a weird "fan-made" Smash where everything is allowed and in which fans have an actual "voice" that it's being listened.... And it really feels like it's even more true for characters never discussed before as a real possibility like Banjo or Skull Kid.

But I'm really positive about it. Because Sakurai thought in everything to please fans: old 3d model Ganondorf now with a sword, classic Zelda, Ridley & K.Rool, smash meter, new story mode, bringing back every old character, taking the ballot as a real way to put characters....

He's making the game as a fan and FOR fans, trying to please everyone. He knows about Isaac, he knows about the fans of Isaac........ and that screenshot.....

After the August direct Sakurai mentioned that he was looking to the ballot for this roster and even with Ridley and K. Rool (that people are now brushing off as obvious and expected) I feel like the power of the ballot influence on this roster won't truly be evident and recognized by the fandom until Isaac and Geno get in.

LuminoZero · Sep 20, 2018

Large scale 'patterns' in Smash are almost always garbage. The hints we get are usually for one individual character.

But people like large scale patterns, so they continue to put faith in them, to spite them being bogus.

TempestSurge said:
After the August direct Sakurai mentioned that he was looking to the ballot for this roster and even with Ridley and K. Rool (that people are now brushing off as obvious and expected) I feel like the power of the ballot influence on this roster won't truly be evident and recognized by the fandom until Isaac and Geno get in.

For the record, I hate this revisionist history bull****. They are totally obvious, after the fact, of course.

TempestSurge · Sep 20, 2018

Gurein said:
About that... Logically if Isaac is in he would have played the two games at least once right? No way he doesn't know about the similarity.

Technically we can even say Isaac being an assist in Brawl, getting his model, choosing his animations and assist move, he'd have to have looked at the games in some fashion.

True Blue Warrior · Sep 20, 2018

Updated support list.

_Sheik
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?!?!?!
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Rethuic · Sep 20, 2018

TempestSurge said:
Technically we can even say Isaac being an assist in Brawl, getting his model, choosing his animations and assist move, he'd have to have looked at the games in some fashion.

I'm sure Sakurai looks at the games for a lot of moves. In fact, about 90% comes from the game they're in, excluding Captain Falcon since he never had a fist-fight in his game.

MeatOfJustice · Sep 20, 2018

Rethuic said:
I'm sure Sakurai looks at the games for a lot of moves. In fact, about 90% comes from the game they're in, excluding Captain Falcon since he never had a fist-fight in his game.

Or R.O.B. who only has Gyro.

Rethuic · Sep 20, 2018

MeatOfJustice said:
Or R.O.B. who only has Gyro.

Yeah, but my point is that Sakurai takes what he can from the games and fills in the rest.

LegendOfDragoon · Sep 20, 2018

How is Isaac doing in the Reddit poll right now?

LuminoZero · Sep 20, 2018

Winning by 400 last I checked.

Q-Long · Sep 20, 2018

pholtos said:
That's the main crux of my argument against the stupid third dimension square object theory.

Cause clearly a Ryu echo and a ninth pokemon are maximum hype, would totally make me feel more excited to get the game as early as I possibly can. Yep.

Yeah and why not spread out the trailers? K Rool and Simon should have been separate occasions then.

LuminoZero · Sep 20, 2018

That's my biggest thought on it. If there were only one or two characters left, they would have spread out the reveals more.

osby · Sep 20, 2018

Q-Long said:
Yeah and why not spread out the trailers? K Rool and Simon should have been separate occasions then.

Because they are afraid of K.Rool fans and want to silence his them as soon as possible?

True Blue Warrior · Sep 20, 2018

pholtos said:
That's the main crux of my argument against the stupid third dimension square object theory.

Cause clearly a Ryu echo and a ninth pokemon are maximum hype, would totally make me feel more excited to get the game as early as I possibly can. Yep.

Pokemon is a crowd-pleaser and Ken is the most iconic clone character in fighting game history.

Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

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