Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[LuminoZero]

Isaac is in. I say this with 100% confidence. If he wasn't going to be in, Sakurai would have deconfirmed him with Waluigi, Ashley and Shovel Knight long ago. He wouldn't lead people on just to maliciously troll them. And the Picture tease? There's no reason to do that if you aren't going to add him. If he DOESN'T add him at this point the negative PR for the game will be insane.

Smash already generates plenty of salt on its own, no need to intentionally generate more.

 

[Zalaresh]

My predictions are 5 unique and 6 echos. Call me an optimist.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Does the bundle edition dropping Nov 2nd mean anything? An earlier direct maybe?

 

[Zalaresh]

Add another 6 DLC Characters and 2 more DLC Echos to that list

 

[jweb23]

I kinda remember this being talked about a while ago but since everyone is bringing up this “box theory” then we should also talk about the website’s blog post theory!

Assuming my math is correct, we are roughly 12 weeks out from Smash Ultimate’s release and assuming the blog posts stay consistent then we getting roughly 3 featured characters per week (there have been weeks with 2 as well as 4). Assuming this pattern continues then we should have roughly 36 more characters to show...HOWEVER...there are only 28 veterans left to feature! It’s very possible that there are 6-8 characters left!!! (I say 6-8 because I rounded up to 3 so the actual number could land between 34-36)

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I do think it's a little soon to jump on the dlc bandwagon. I don't believe the box theory at all, so I think we have more reveals left than Incineroar and Ken.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I kinda remember this being talked about a while ago but since everyone is bringing up this “box theory” then we should also talk about the website’s blog post theory!

Assuming my math is correct, we are roughly 12 weeks out from Smash Ultimate’s release and assuming the blog posts stay consistent then we getting roughly 3 featured characters per week (there have been weeks with 2 as well as 4). Assuming this pattern continues then we should have roughly 36 more characters to show...HOWEVER...there are only 28 veterans left to feature! It’s very possible that there are 6-8 characters left!!! (I say 6-8 because I rounded up to 3 so the actual number could land between 34-36)

Due to the inconsistency in the pattern, I wouldn't say it stands a chance at convincing the Boxists. They hold similar value in my view, with the box theory possibly holding more. All I'm going to do until more info drops is generate hype and goodwill between as many sites and threads as I can.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Hey guys. I found another "leak" from 4chan.

Spoiler

Has not yet been disproven from what I can tell.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

The biggest hole in box theory, in my mind, is that when you look at it in its most basic form, even though there's quite a bit more complex logic behind it than this, it basically boils down to "36 + 36 = 72, 72 - 70 = 2". And I can say with 99% certainty that Nintendo would not release a render of the box if it could be used to determine the final roster size in such a straightforward way. If that was the case, then we would not be seeing this box.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

New leak with our boy

 

[LuminoZero]

Hey guys. I found another "leak" from 4chan.

Spoiler

Has not yet been disproven from what I can tell.

Wonder when that was posted? Seems fairly solid so far, but timing is everything.

 

[QcSlayer]

Isaac is in. I say this with 100% confidence. If he wasn't going to be in, Sakurai would have deconfirmed him with Waluigi, Ashley and Shovel Knight long ago. He wouldn't lead people on just to maliciously troll them. And the Picture tease? There's no reason to do that if you aren't going to add him. If he DOESN'T add him at this point the negative PR for the game will be insane.

Smash already generates plenty of salt on its own, no need to intentionally generate more.

I don't believe you, Isaac is 100% not in the game.

The fact that he wasn't shown whit the other popular assist trophies,

The fact that Golden Sun Dark Dawn website got updated twice,

The Fact that GS got new trademark,

The fact that there is only one new Nintendo LP in Ultimate

The fact that Sakurai decided to Edit a picture reminescent of GS on twitter, which is largely consider to be a GS reference and not a MH one.

The Fact that it got the exact same angle as GS battle view, which is super rare,

The Fact that's it's not the first time that Sakurai tease a character,

The fact that Sakurai is super carefull whit what he post because he hates to dissapoints the fans,

And of course Link=Isaac, silent protagonist,

Marth = Garet, one of the translation is Mars and he comes from Fire Emblem,

Shulk = Ivan because both can have the ability to see the future and posses the Shaman Rod/Manado which the bad guys wants.

Which are 3 RPG characters,

Against a fire dragon that can poison people like the fusion dragon,

And all of this in an Arena, whit an edit showing the assist trophy as if it was important,

And there is no one from brawl, were's the fourth guy?



Clearly guys, only an Idiot would believe that Isaac is in the game, it's only one super duper huge coincidence.

(Sarcasm)

I would rethink my life choices if Isaac is missing at this point lol.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

New leak with our boy

The new Poke Floats stage makes me think this is fake.

I'm not sure if Sakurai cares about Poke Floats as much as we do, he's probably just completely shelved it at this point.

Also having one returning stage (Pac Maze) is a huge red flag to me.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Hey guys. I found another "leak" from 4chan.

Spoiler

Has not yet been disproven from what I can tell.

Wonder when that was posted? Seems fairly solid so far, but timing is everything.

I remember this, it was from before the August direct. The most interesting thing is Chrom as an echo of Roy (which nobody was really predicting at that point), and the rather strange pick in Soren. There was also a follow-up to this leak that was more questionable, but there was no real proof that it came from the same person, so I'll leave that aside for now.

On the other hand, Simon, King K. Rool, Isaac, and Ken are rather safe picks. If this had Richter, I'd be sold on it though, the Chrom detail is too much to just ignore out of hand.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

The biggest hole in box theory, in my mind, is that when you look at it in its most basic form, even though there's quite a bit more complex logic behind it than this, it basically boils down to "36 + 36 = 72, 72 - 70 = 2". And I can say with 99% certainty that Nintendo would not release a render of the box if it could be used to determine the final roster size in such a straightforward way. If that was the case, then we would not be seeing this box.

The original 8 are on the front face of the box, but everyone is assuming they appear again on the side. In the Melee box art, they did not do this.
That point doesn't disprove it but it makes it slightly weaker

 

[jweb23]

Due to the inconsistency in the pattern, I wouldn't say it stands a chance at convincing the Boxists. They hold similar value in my view, with the box theory possibly holding more. All I'm going to do until more info drops is generate hype and goodwill between as many sites and threads as I can.

The box theory is kinda silly to me because it disregards the possibility of the image being a quick mock up instead of the finalize art as well as the possibility of characters appearing on the back of the box.

 

[LuminoZero]

That YT leak wasn't bad. It does seem pretty believable. Doesn't matter much to me, though. I'm already 100% convinced Isaac is in.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

The new Poke Floats stage makes me think this is fake.

I'm not sure if Sakurai cares about Poke Floats as much as we do, he's probably just completely shelved it at this point.

Also having one returning stage (Pac Maze) is a huge red flag to me.

Yeah all and all I'm just happy to see the leaks again

 

[Confirmation]

Has anyone thought the blog poster order has gotten really wonky as of late?

I know there was someone in this thread that drew attention to them a bit ago, I just don't remember who to @

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

The box theory is kinda silly to me because it disregards the possibility of the image being a quick mock up instead of the finalize art as well as the possibility of characters appearing on the back of the box.

I don't completely buy it but I've decided not to just dismiss it quite yet. Let's hope the blog post theory puts the box to sleep

 

[Zalaresh]

I think we will get these unique characters Isaac, Geno, Shantae either as assist or playable, Pokemon rep most likely Incineroar, Waddle dee, and potentially another villain character. Echos I expect Black knight, Ken, Shadow. 3 other unexpected echos from other 1st party representatives. If Isaac gets a felix echo then that will count as 1 of them.

DLC characters would include 2 echos Zack Fair, and Jeanne and DLC Uniques will include Heihachi, Akira/or Jacky maybe..., Monster Hunter, Banjo/or Steve (I think Banjo would be the better option.) And Rex/or Elma, possibly an Arms character, and lastly another Pokemon rep. It makes more sense for 3rd parties and new IP's to primarily put characters as DLC because they will probably get more of a financial return.

Niche characters are less likely to be placed here, because of how unpredictable the financial rewards would be. Lastly Sakarai san has been known to throw at us brand new third party characters and retros from out of nowhere. So I wouldn't be surprised if we get a few of those as DLC.

Although I doubt it, we could get another Metal Gear character as well.

This is how optimistic I am !!!!

 

[jweb23]

I don't completely buy it but I've decided not to just dismiss it quite yet. Let's hope the blog post theory puts the box to sleep

I think it is plausible but considering how Sakurai has talked about leaks, I honestly think this was intentionally made to throw us all off. Force all of our excitement to die down a bit just to hit us with a huge surprise.

New leak with our boy

The leak is almost to good to be true yet has a good amount of disappointment with some fan favorites being ATs and bosses. I actually hope this turns out to be true! That Spirits mode would be awesome!

 

[Zalaresh]

The biggest problem with the box theory is we don't know whats on the back and we can only speculate what is on the other side. Although the logic is there, the fact is, it's just to vague as of right now. I don't put stock in vague. I need answers people! CoroCoro gave us a more direct answer, which gives me more of concrete evidence than the box theory. For all we know some characters could be on the back and bottom of the box. And they have to put things like price, bar codes, copyright and legal jargon. Not to mention any potential logos and all of the various corporations that were involved in the making, descriptions, etc. And considering just how big of a cross over this game is, there will be a lot information on this box

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I keep trying to process the rathalos tweet in my mind. The connections to golden sun are uncanny: mostly the angle, the dragon, and the way the characters are facing it+their poses.
It's not as on-the-nose like the Monado tweet was, and isn't super vague like his "res eyes" comment.
You're tearing me apart, Sakurai!

 

[LasermasterA]

With how fast we got here from 350, I'd say it's possible. I'll put my money on reaching 500 2 weeks before his reveal.

Lol that'd put us in like near 600 pages when he launches.

I think we'll reach like, 550 by the time he's revealed.

I think a reveal will come within 2 weeks or so, dunno how though.

 

[pholtos]

The biggest problem with the box theory is we don't know whats on the back (or bottom) and we can only speculate what is on the other side. Although the logic is there, the fact is it's just to vague as of right now. I don't put stock in vague. I need answers people! CoroCoro gave us a more direct answer, which gives me more of concrete evidence than the box theory. For all we know some characters could be on the back and bottom of the box. And they have to put things like price, bar codes, copyright and legal jargon, not to mention any potential logos and all of the various corporations that were involved in the making. descriptions, etc. And considering just how big of a cross over this game is, there will be a lot information on this box

Yup, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. That's why I've never believed it. Clearly all the characters are on the two sides, see guys? We can only see two sides and one of them has a fairly definable pattern on it, therefore a side we can't see must have the other half of the pattern! It's foolproof!
...Except the back could have stuff or it's a placeholder image. Ya know, stuff that's put in place months in advance. But nah. It's foolproof.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Holy alchemy I just read that leak posted above. Those are some bold claims and I seriously hope it is true

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

The biggest problem with the box theory is we don't know whats on the back (or bottom) and we can only speculate what is on the other side. Although the logic is there, the fact is it's just to vague as of right now. I don't put stock in vague. I need answers people! CoroCoro gave us a more direct answer, which gives me more of concrete evidence than the box theory. For all we know some characters could be on the back and bottom of the box. And they have to put things like price, bar codes, copyright and legal jargon, not to mention any potential logos and all of the various corporations that were involved in the making. descriptions, etc. And considering just how big of a cross over this game is, there will be a lot information on this box

Dark samus kinda throws a wrench in it if the original 8 not being on the side is true. It just seems odd to me to have the OG 8 on the box twice. Do we have any other art where they appear twice?

 

[QcSlayer]

Welp the leaker did avoid some traps:

No minecraft stage but Steve AT,
Minecraft as no music to make a stage and "Others" would be really off putting.

Minecraft is more Iconic then SK and on every Platform, I could totally see Steve AT coming whit BK.

Banjo could happen, while Microsoft and Big N are "Rival" Compagnies, I was wrong about Banjo, peoples really freaking wants him, Microsoft is ok whit it, and he would help selling Smash Game. + Microsoft does not compete in the Japanese Market and usually they Compete way more whit Sony then Nintendo in the USA/PAL.

Also they are working on their public Image whit cross Platform.

Skull Kid not playable, I'm calling it, sorry Skull Kid fans, but there was nothing in 2015 going on for him. Only Loz18 which seems to be trolling at this point. At first I wanted to believe him but...

I heard Waddle Dee as some kind of Smash functionnality whit is Amiibo.

Geno could happen, while SE won't gain much,but since september Direct, FF is finally coming to Nintendo... maybe they consider Nintendo to be a serious partner and are trying to work on there relations this time... or maybe he came package whit another SE rep as DLC. + Verg thinks there may be another rep from them... and he was right so far on everything...

Shadow, Ken and Incineroar are safe picks thanks to Knuckle and Verg...

It's pretty safe and I could totally see that Spirit mode happening.

During K K R reveal Kirby and Meta Knight did not face each others... Meta Knight is probably not the Kirby vilain.

So yeah, everythin seems right... and the guys seems to avoid traps.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

So I know this is a bit of a dead horse topic at this point, but please allow this old man to yell at clouds for a second.

Why are we calling every new rumor that pops up a "leak"? The ESRB gameplay footage of Smash 4 was a leak. Bloody Tears showing up on the Smash Blog ahead of Simon's reveal was an accidental leak. An industry insider with a proven track record like Vergeben saying his sources tell him that Incineroar and Ken are in the game COULD be a leak, depending on how much you trust him, but it's still unsubstantiated at this point. It's more of a plausible rumor in my books. Somebody on 4chan saying his uncle works at Nintendo and telling us how Vegeta is definitely in the game is just a hoax. Or a rumor at best.

Corocoro (a professional magazine with a verified working relationship with Nintendo and history of releasing exclusive information early) saying there will be 108 stages is sort of a leak in the sense that they're giving us this info ahead of Nintendo's official channels, but basically it's an unofficial announcement. Anybody arguing that it's a typo is being very cynical, since I doubt they would just toss that number out without confirmation and given the amount of steps that article must have gone through before being published. I meant to browse the magazine this weekend and see what other info they had for myself but I got busy, so maybe I'll find it in a convenience store later if it's still available.

I have no greater point to make there and I don't expect people to change the way they speak since this has already caught on. But calling everything a leak muddies the line between actual credible information and trolls. Of course, that's why the trolls themselves all call it a leak, since it gives them a veneer of credibility.

In other news I'm actually feeling pretty optimistic about Isaac today. The Corocoro thing alone implies that there are still some hidden franchises. They're probably not all tied to characters (I can see Rhythm Heaven getting a stage but no character) but certainly at least one of them is. As to that box theory, I can't say I buy into it because Ken and Incineroar as the final two reveals would be kind of lame, assuming that's who's left. Even if our boy isn't in the base game, he's gotta be a shoo-in for DLC. I still won't believe it until I see it with my own eyes, but if nothing else Sakurai must have noticed the reactions to the Rathalos tweet.

 

[jweb23]

Dark samus kinda throws a wrench in it if the original 8 not being on the side is true. It just seems odd to me to have the OG 8 on the box twice. Do we have any other art where they appear twice?

The 3ds boxart does however there has never been Smash boxart that features the entire roster...

 

[Jonny Westside]

The leaker claims an 80 character base roster. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that line up nicely with the smashdown theory?

 

[Zalaresh]

The leaker claims an 80 character base roster. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that line up nicely with the smashdown theory?

Why yes... yes it does!

 

[LasermasterA]

Hey guys. I found another "leak" from 4chan.

Spoiler

Has not yet been disproven from what I can tell.

Ah I remember this "leak". It was quite a while ago, someone else said before August Direct above.

We actually discussed this one quite a bit, and it was interesting especially cause of the Chrom being based Roy fact, which did come true.

The main problem with it is Soren being based on Robin as an echo. Soren is decently popular (top 20 in CYL rankings of FEH) but not popular enough to get in over characters like Celica so it stands out as being an unusual point, and unlikely.

To be fair, this leak hasn't been false so far, but the leaker didn't reveal much in the first place besides the safe choices of Simon and K. Rool. It pretty much relies on Soren to be proven right since the other choices are common choices across most leaks.

It has Isaac as a major point, so that's a plus for us though :D

 

[Organization XIII]

You guys don't understand how much I want this to be real. It has absolutely everything I want from Ultimate and then some. The only thing is a full-on story mode seems a bit extreme especially if every character is involved.

 

[Metocles]

Hey guys. I found another "leak" from 4chan.

Spoiler

Has not yet been disproven from what I can tell.

Wonder when that was posted? Seems fairly solid so far, but timing is everything.

This isn't a 4chan leak but the infamous Neogaf leak that has sort of just sat for a while when more prominent leaks and leakers (Vergeben) have taken over the warfront. There was also a follow up to this leak that people questioned if it was actually from the same person.

The main reason it was and is being shot down is mainly Soren. Not that Soren has been shown or anything, just how unbelievable a Soren echo would actually be considering the anathema that Fire Emblem characters get in general. So it sits for now. If Soren for some reason is revealed then it would be mind-blowing, but for now it's just an unproven leak list.

 

[jweb23]

The leaker claims an 80 character base roster. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that line up nicely with the smashdown theory?

Assuming Smashdown forces you to always play with 4 players...yes! Some believe 8 player would be part of that mode but I doubt it because Sakurai would have shown it with 8 instead of 4 plus 8-player Smash was kind of it’s own special mode too. I think ther was a chance of having more than 4 during a match in Classic mode though so who knows.

 

[Zalaresh]

Now if you look at this time table one of the most apparent things is the how the Smash team likes to place a much larger emphasis on characters closer to launch. As you can also see our time window is smaller than the past 2 games. I would like to say based on what we have seen so far we are going to be getting way more than what was originally expected. DLC Will be huge this time around. I am quite certain of that based on the Wii U's content. The August reveal is the largest reveal of new fighters we have had in one session ever. And E3 was an absolute blow out. Now there is not that much time until release, but If the trends are the same as past games, we should see an influx of characters rather than the opposite. I think we are at our slowdown period as of right now, but then we will get the grand finale near the end. All we can do is speculate even when we have these so called leaks, but trends usually don't lie.

 

[pholtos]

Assuming Smashdown forces you to always play with 4 players...yes! Some believe 8 player would be part of that mode but I doubt it because Sakurai would have shown it with 8 instead of 4 plus 8-player Smash was kind of it’s own special mode too. I think ther was a chance of having more than 4 during a match in Classic mode though so who knows.

Perhaps you can have it be either 4 player or 8 player smash, and this mode is only unlocked if you own all the characters.
And what is a multiple of 4 and 8? 80. (Although 72 is also so hmm)

Although this can only be true if everything you said is accurately true so...

 

[Confirmation]

Anyone seen this? https://mobile.twitter.com/MimiqueVEVO/status/1041897030409277440

We benefit the most from conspiracy theories about moved fighters, so thought it was worth mentioning. I really want whoever was going over the blog entries to have a look at this though