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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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super88cloud

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That's why I have been taking a lot of this with a grain of salt. As much as I really want Geno and honestly as awesome as that pass from earlier sounded, I want to not really go full on believing that Geno is a guarantee. Rumors are called rumors for a reason after all.

I really am rooting for Fatmanonice theory crafting to be right not because I think he is right, but his stuff sounds like a fever dream and objectively a best case scenario. I mean his fighter pass sounds incredible but I'm not 100% convinced yet. Either way, this is a fun ride.

If I am being real though, I will trade for an underwhelming FP2 if we could at least guarantee Geno. That's really all I want at this point.
I really wish I could be as optimistic as FMANiCE optimism´s is on the verge of the absurd. That´s why he gets a lot of whiplash. If I was maybe a teenager, I would eat it though. I still think there´s a 50/50 chance of Geno. And he is the last of the impossibles. That´s why I want him. He represents a piece of my childhood. It´s hard to argue against wish fullfilment when we have a lot of the impossible guys right now. I think Geno is either next or the last one.
Next because of the whole Mario 35th anniversary. And if he´s last, well, it would make sense how he would be seen as the extra character and how he was on the last Smash 4 direct as a mii costume.
 

KCCHIEFS27

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Condescending? Yeah. Wrong? Absolutely not. Hotel? Trivago.
More than half of the smash bros roster are completely unrecognizable outside of Smash to a large portion of the people who own the game so there really is no point in arguing how "popular" or "iconic" a character is or is not because it just doesn't ****ing matter
 
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Griselda

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More than half of the smash bros roster are completely unrecognizable outside of Smash to a large portion of the people who own the game so there really is no point in arguing how "popular" or "iconic" a character is or is not because it just doesn't ****ing matter
This reminds me of why I was mad that trophy descriptions weren't a thing anymore. You only get random little snippets during loading screens, and without that you'd have little to no way of knowing who anyone is in Ultimate if you didn't already.
 

super88cloud

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More than half of the smash bros roster are completely unrecognizable outside of Smash to a large portion of the people who own the game so there really is no point in arguing how "popular" or "iconic" a character is or is not because it just doesn't ****ing matter
I don´t know who is the main demographic of smash right now?
8 to 16?
If so, you´re probably right. but most of the characters have had a game in the last ten years,
 

xpnc

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I'm willing to bet money that Animal Crossing New Horizons has sold better than every SNK game put together so I would really struggle to include any of their characters in the "iconic" category in the same breath as Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog

Luckily, this game isn't about iconic characters or else Corrin and...many others wouldn't be in it—and we would have no chance in hell of Geno being in, either.
 

Fatmanonice

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I don’t think it’s impossible to get a general direct but I’m not 100% sure this is proof of us absolutely gettin one.
Right but I'm just noting that it's very, very odd. I also noticed that, before major Directs, they usually cram all this stuff into several days of maintenance back to back but, in this case, it was split up over the course of three weeks.
 

Izanagi97

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Oh boy, here we go again with this ****.

To all of you saying that Terry is a literal who or that he is niche, you are proving your lack of gaming diversity (the good kind) and that you have narrow tastes.



This is a perfect example. Saying 'Of course Max recognized Terry because he plays fighting games' isn't an excuse.

Max loves Capcom games in general as well as FPS and many MANY others. This of course means he would recognize many things, like when he recognized FF7 music immediately for Cloud's reveal and the Panzer Dragoon music from the Direct it was announced.

Terry Bogard, the face of SNK who was competing with Capcom and were rivals back in the day is not niche just because he wasn't within your speculation circle. The FGC is not niche because it is huge and holds people who have many interests but all happen to love fighting games.

That would be like me saying Sora is niche because I've never played a Square game, much less Kingdom Hearts. Wrong answer.

That would be like me saying Game of Thrones is niche just because I never got into it. Wrong again.

What you are doing is using your bias and subjective views and applying it as if it was fact. Just because all you play is Smash or Nintendo first party or games on a Nintendo console doesn't mean things don't exist outside of it. If anything, it means Smash fans don't branch out often into other games, which we've seen time and again to be true.
Basically, a lot of Smash fans need to play more video games (or watch videos of said video games if they don't have the means to get them).
 

TX-55

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Messages
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I'm willing to bet money that Animal Crossing New Horizons has sold better than every SNK game put together so I would really struggle to include any of their characters in the "iconic" category in the same breath as Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog

Luckily, this game isn't about iconic characters or else Corrin and...many others wouldn't be in it—and we would have no chance in hell of Geno being in, either.
Well the casual audience is gigantic compared to the hardcore bunch.
Of course Animal Crossing sold better, it's a casual game, you don't have to input pretzel motions to dig a tree.
 

Droodle

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Oh boy, here we go again with this ****.

To all of you saying that Terry is a literal who or that he is niche, you are proving your lack of gaming diversity (the good kind) and that you have narrow tastes.



This is a perfect example. Saying 'Of course Max recognized Terry because he plays fighting games' isn't an excuse.

Max loves Capcom games in general as well as FPS and many MANY others. This of course means he would recognize many things, like when he recognized FF7 music immediately for Cloud's reveal and the Panzer Dragoon music from the Direct it was announced.

Terry Bogard, the face of SNK who was competing with Capcom and were rivals back in the day is not niche just because he wasn't within your speculation circle. The FGC is not niche because it is huge and holds people who have many interests but all happen to love fighting games.

That would be like me saying Sora is niche because I've never played a Square game, much less Kingdom Hearts. Wrong answer.

That would be like me saying Game of Thrones is niche just because I never got into it. Wrong again.

What you are doing is using your bias and subjective views and applying it as if it was fact. Just because all you play is Smash or Nintendo first party or games on a Nintendo console doesn't mean things don't exist outside of it. If anything, it means Smash fans don't branch out often into other games, which we've seen time and again to be true.
I don't feel like you can't deny Terry is niche though, because he absolutely is. But me saying Terry is "niche" is not the same as saying Terry isn't iconic.

Lets compare these 3:

Terry Brogard: SNK was/is a pioneer of fighting games and there is no denying that. While they never reached the heights of Capcom, they definitely have a core fanbase surrounding them. But even then, it's more so their legacy that's important rather than their popularity. I mean most of their games sell around 200-500k copies worldwide, and it's not like the series is expanding at a crazy rate.

Sol Badguy: ArcSys pretty much created the Anime Fighting Game subgenre, and nowadays they're pretty well known within the dedicated fighting game crowd. But then again, while Guilty Gear is popular within the hardcore fighting game crowd; they're still pretty niche overall selling similarly to 200-500k copies worldwide per entry.

Adol Christin: Falcom is a pioneer of JRPGs/Adventure games, and the Dragon Slayer game pretty much inspired a lot of future series like Zelda. They've been in the RPG business longer then Square, and Adol is like a year younger than Link. If you're in the dedicated JRPG crowd chances are that you've heard of Ys/Trails. But again, at most those games sell 200-500k usually.

They're all icons, definitely. But they're all also niche.

There's a huge difference between series like Kingdom Hearts with 30mil+ copies sold, and Fatal Fury/KoF, Guilty Gear, Ys with 2-5 million sales collectively. Sure, you may personally have not played KH but it doesn't take a lot of research to figure out that those games have bigger playerbases comparatively.

That's not to say they shouldn't get into Smash, because I personally am fine with any of them getting in; but you can't deny that each series is niche. Yet despite that they're all important to their own respective genres, and they paved the way for a ton of other series as well. There is no denying that.
 
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TX-55

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284
Oh boy, here we go again with this ****.

To all of you saying that Terry is a literal who or that he is niche, you are proving your lack of gaming diversity (the good kind) and that you have narrow tastes.



This is a perfect example. Saying 'Of course Max recognized Terry because he plays fighting games' isn't an excuse.

Max loves Capcom games in general as well as FPS and many MANY others. This of course means he would recognize many things, like when he recognized FF7 music immediately for Cloud's reveal and the Panzer Dragoon music from the Direct it was announced.

Terry Bogard, the face of SNK who was competing with Capcom and were rivals back in the day is not niche just because he wasn't within your speculation circle. The FGC is not niche because it is huge and holds people who have many interests but all happen to love fighting games.

That would be like me saying Sora is niche because I've never played a Square game, much less Kingdom Hearts. Wrong answer.

That would be like me saying Game of Thrones is niche just because I never got into it. Wrong again.

What you are doing is using your bias and subjective views and applying it as if it was fact. Just because all you play is Smash or Nintendo first party or games on a Nintendo console doesn't mean things don't exist outside of it. If anything, it means Smash fans don't branch out often into other games, which we've seen time and again to be true.
This so much.
I absolutely hate it when they do that.
I get it, it's not the character you want, but to downplay a franchise's history and legacy just to prove your narrow minded views is completely ignorant.

Heck, I never played a Metal Gear game before Snake's Smash debut in Brawl, and now I'm a MGS fanatic, owning and completing all of the games in the MGS saga.
My username is a Metal Gear.

No one was speculating about Snake pre-Brawl, not even imagine his inclusion, doesn't mean I should shut down his fans for not knowing who he is at the time.
 

pinshadow

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I'm willing to bet money that Animal Crossing New Horizons has sold better than every SNK game put together so I would really struggle to include any of their characters in the "iconic" category in the same breath as Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog

Luckily, this game isn't about iconic characters or else Corrin and...many others wouldn't be in it—and we would have no chance in hell of Geno being in, either.
How much? Seriously, do you have any idea how many games SNK has put out? Well, disregarding arcade titles and mobile games, counting out the console and PC releases individually puts us at... 505 releases. Now, doing some quick math, let's just assume the absolute unrealistic best case scenario for Animal Crossing, that over the last quarter it's somehow managed to become the best selling game on Switch and sold 25 million copies total. So 25,000,000/505 releases puts us at 49,505 sales on average for each game to meet that. And that's completely disregarding any profits/sales being made from arcades. Seriously, this company put out multiple consoles, can we stop pushing this nonsense about SNK being some no name? Especially in the thread about a god damn party member who appears in one game where he isn't even the protagonist?

EDIT: Oh, and the list didn't cover the 46 games SNK had on the Virtaul Console, the 11 Arcade Archive titles on PS4 and Switch, and the 65 games released under the ACA Neo Geo brand on PS4, Switch, and Xbox (atleast, I only counted stuff they specifically developed, there's plenty there they just published it seems as well.)
 
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Oldhead

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This reminds me of why I was mad that trophy descriptions weren't a thing anymore. You only get random little snippets during loading screens, and without that you'd have little to no way of knowing who anyone is in Ultimate if you didn't already.
Outside of characters, this is my most wanted feature to be added to Smash: some kind of “museum” mode that adds descriptions to the spirits in the game. It wouldn’t be that much work to add a blurb and game first appearance/date to the spirit gallery, and it would make all those pngs sooo much more meaningful. I used to browse through the trophies on a regular basis in Melee and Brawl just taking in the history of it all. I’m hoping there’s still a chance it could be added as a final bonus feature.
 

MattOnwheels

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At least August is tomorrow. All we need is to wait for Sunday evening to get to the next chapter in this spec saga
 
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SpectreJordan

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Terry is definitely niche, and I see no way to justify him in any other way. He is an icon, absolutely. But in the grand scheme of things, he is pretty dang niche outside a certain crowd (FGC).

But the thing is; Sakurai has already stated he's fine with advertising "niche" JP IPs, multiple times through Smash. He doesn't really care if a series is SUPER POPULAR worldwide, and if he did we would have gotten something like Resident Evil as a Fighter rather than Fatal Fury, but again he doesn't really care.

Now if that's a problem with him is not really up to me to decide. That's just the way he rolls. BUT replacing Sakurai wouldn't really change anything. Nintendo is already a super conservative company in terms of risks, and the only way certain series/characters are even on the table is because they trust Sakurai a ton. I think it's pretty likely that if Sakurai wasn't the person in charge then we'd get far less 3rd party characters/fan picks in the long run. It'd probably all be characters/series that Nintendo is currently interested in.



TBF, I don't really think it's fair to take something like the Nintendo NY reaction super seriously because I'm willing to bet a lot of people already braced themselves for Terry via leaks. Like if Byleth was leaked a week or 2 before the presentation, the blow-back wouldn't nearly have been as bad (though it would definitely not be received well still).

But I do think the others are absolutely valid.

Which again goes to show the big difference between "popular" characters in Japan and in North America. Characters like Terry have a decent amount of visibility there (and in Latin America) partly due to their huge legacy. But around here they aren't seen as "big/iconic" characters as much. Something like Doom Guy/Master Chief/Crash would have a huge reaction in the West, but not so much in Japan (to varying degrees of course) because while they're still absolutely huge in the West, but in Japan they have dropped off in popularity (Crash is the most popular among those 3, but even then he's fell hard from his golden days over there). Likewise characters like Arle/Adol Christin/Yuri Lowell would have a huge reaction in Japan compared to the West because most of their legacy is in that region, but they aren't big out here (still, to varying degrees).

Combine this with characters that are popular within specific fanbases, outside of Smash; and you get even more "tougher" choices. Terry is big in the FGC but in the Smash Community he's not super big as a request. Geno is big in the Smash community, but, let's be honest he's nonexistent outside of here. In our heads, if people were given the choice between Geno and Terry, 90% of the people here would choose Geno. But in Sakurai/Nintendo's minds there's also other factors at play rather than just "fan-demand". Marketability, promotions, costs, company relations, future potential, legacy, popularity outside of Smash, all also play a an important role in terms of what they choose.

In the end, Nintendo's running a business (as godawful their marketing is currently), we aren't going to get a pass filled with 6 MEGA hitters (especially MEGA HITTERS that are only big in America). We're far more likely to get 1-2 "big" characters, 1-2 "niche" characters, and "1-2" promotional characters. These characters would also probably be split between Eastern/Western tastes (although I still expect most of the characters to originate from Japan still).

So again, just expect FP 1 2.0. Rather than HOLY COW we got Geno, Sora, Master Chief, Dante, Min Min, and Crash all in the same pass.
I’m expecting “Smash 4’s DLC2”. More Nintendo focused with two *BIG* names ala Ryu & Cloud. One of which I’m expecting to be a western character; we’ve gotten too much western content since Banjo to think he’ll be the only one.

Maybe a small third party character that’s heavily associated with Nintendo alongside the two big names ala Bayonetta.

So something like:
Rex
Cinderace or maybe a BOTW character
Master Chief/Crash
Dante/2B
Geno/Travis/Bravely Default

Maybe Geno could be the one that ends it all. He’d be a big deal for the Smash speculators but he’s not as big for everyone else. So he’d be far better than ending with Incineroar/Byleth but they’re not ending on their biggest weapon that’s supposed to sell FP2 to everyone.

This is sort of based on a theory I have that Nintendo sort of equally distributed the budget throughout FP1 which is why it’s mostly smaller series besides Dragon Quest. Here they’d get two big names & just use the rest of the pass to promote Switch games & maaaaybe make the Smash fanbase happy at the same time too.
 
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Firox

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This reminds me of why I was mad that trophy descriptions weren't a thing anymore. You only get random little snippets during loading screens, and without that you'd have little to no way of knowing who anyone is in Ultimate if you didn't already.
Seriously! Without the context of a trophy description, I really found myself scratching my head over a lot of the spirits from the more obscure games.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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those are the only two pokemon I feel would be acceptable for a Pokemon fighter's pass character
No way dude Sirfetch'd all the way. Other Pokemon just can't hold a candle to such a handsome wholesome boy.

___________________

In other news that I would consider on the positive side, in case anyone didn't see already Joker and Hero amiibos are available for pre order. Just pre ordered my Joker Amiibo! Apologies if it's already been discussed, I just haven't been able to keep up with the thread lately and wanted to make sure no one missed out if they were looking forward to them.
 

Icewolff92

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I’m expecting “Smash 4’s DLC2”. More Nintendo focused with two *BIG* names ala Ryu & Cloud. One of which I’m expecting to be a western character; we’ve gotten too much western content since Banjo to think he’ll be the only one.
Same here. I sort of expect
Geno
Master Chief
Rex
Zelda character (if we go by the mentality of that we are getting Geno and/or Waluigi because 35th anniversary of Mario, I don´t get why we should have in the back of our mind that we at least are getting one Zelda rep since its Legend of Zeldas 35th anniversary next year)
Dead Nintendo franchise that Fatman has talked about
Dead Nintendo franchise that Fatman has talked about
 

MattOnwheels

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LMAO! With all respect, Some of you badmouthing Terry don't know Shin from Shinobi! Go ask anyone in the Fighting Game Community who Terry is and you'll see why he was added. Don't blame Sakurai for your own ignorance please.
 

okamifire

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LMAO! With all respect, Some of you badmouthing Terry don't know Shin from Shinobi! Go ask anyone in the Fighting Game Community who Terry is and you'll see why he was added. Don't blame Sakurai for your own ignorance please.
Yeah, I think most people unfamiliar with him just aren't part of the FGC. For example, https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/Terry_Bogard has a list of what Terry is in, and this includes 53 non mobile games, 28 mobile games, and 7 cameos. I don't have the numbers, but I'd go so far as to say that other than maybe Mario, I'm not sure any character in Smash has been in more games than Terry even, hah. Now, 90% of them are King of Fighters games and even being a fan of the series, I can say that most KoF games are similar, so if you don't like one you probably won't like the others, but Terry is still in a buttload of games.
 
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CopperKoopa

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Well in that case what in the hell were they thinking putting Terry in the game.... Couldn't even see that so called 'net of appeal' with a 100x magnified telescope. I'd say Byleth and Corrin also but they get enough hate as it is (rightfully so). Sakurai does shoot big sometimes but not nearly often enough. Dude is scared of working with Americans because of a language barrier.... Seriously...

I will be the first to tell you. I never have and never will worship Sakurai like a good helping of Smash fans do. He is just the one in control for the moment. I've been waiting for someone else to pick up the mantle for years. Done with him and his narrow minded ideals.

Now I'll give him Cloud. That was a true eye opener at the time. Banjo would be 2nd. That is it for widest and most praise-worthy appeal in my eyes, but hey I'm very hard to impress. I say the same thing for most 3rd or 1st parties that get revealed if they made sense all along. "About time"... "About time..".."About damn time"...

He needs to shoot way bigger for me to be floored. Like the following:

Agumon = Pokemon vs Digimon in the same game
Geno = I still believe he is the last character that isn't there that should be. Sorry Waluigi..
A true M RATED rep like Scorpion or Doom Guy would blow anyone away.
Sora = I can make anything happen. Disney means nothing.
Master Chief = Face of Xbox

I'd say Crash but I'd rather complain if he doesn't make it in instead. SINCE HE IS A NO ****ING BRAINER....
Terry is stupid popular. I think the problem is that the Smash/Nintendo fan base and speculation scene has become skewed far younger on sites like this, which really messes with some speculators' connection to reality. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just pointing out that a character like Terry makes a ton of sense for Smash and is widely recognizable. If you didn't grow up playing in arcades or having a friend with a NEOGEO, then no, I guess you wouldn't know who the hell he is. But the SNK games defined arcades in the 90s and Xennials like myself remember them fondly. You also have all the Japanese fans who still play these games and their modern sequels today, or all the fans from countries like Brazil and Mexico where the NEOGEO was really popular. For some reason Terry didn't get the massive bandwagonning that Banjo did, maybe because he doesn't feel like a lost Nintendo character. I don't want to get further into my whole thought process on which characters we pick for speculation, because I think it would offend people and come off as ageist or "father knows best." But I bet if there was a longer time period between Terry's reveal and release, the hype would have put him on that same pedestal that Banjo sat on where suddenly a ton of people started rallying behind him despite not even playing his games.

I guess you could argue Geno actually falls into that same camp...
 

CopperKoopa

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I can't tell 100% yet if Min Min is meant to start off a big Fighters Pass, and they're getting the least exciting character out of the way, or if they're setting things up for the rest of the pass to be mellow with a few exceptions like Geno or Crash. I'm leaning to and hoping it's the former
I'm still of the theory that Min was not meant to be the first character. There is an old, likely fake leak from 2ch that got reposted on 4chan that stated the entire order of FP2 and Byleth was swapped around to throw off leakers. Basically our last fighter of the first fighters pass was supposed to be Ryu Hayabusa (who several leakers were backing since before E3 2019), but they moved Byleth up from FP2 to take his spot and cast doubt. If this is to be believed, then it wouldn't be hard to extrapolate out and say all of FP2 had been switched around.
 

okamifire

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I'm still of the theory that Min was not meant to be the first character. There is an old, likely fake leak from 2ch that got reposted on 4chan that stated the entire order of FP2 and Byleth was swapped around to throw off leakers. Basically our last fighter of the first fighters pass was supposed to be Ryu Hayabusa (who several leakers were backing since before E3 2019), but they moved Byleth up from FP2 to take his spot and cast doubt. If this is to be believed, then it wouldn't be hard to extrapolate out and say all of FP2 had been switched around.
Out of curiosity, do you recall what the rest of FP2 was listed as? I don't put too much stock into text leaks from any of the chans, but if they had Byleth and Min Min on there, that's enough for me to humor.
 

Vector Victor

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Ah, its the same conversation from when Terry was announced that made me go from being neutral to his addition to starting to be against and dislike him. Now I like him.

Hopefully if Geno is added, fans don't go finger wag shaming towards other fanbases and act condescending to people just because they haven't played every game on the planet.
 

okamifire

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Ah, its the same conversation from when Terry was announced that made me go from being neutral to his addition to starting to be against and dislike him. Now I like him.

Hopefully if Geno is added, fans don't go finger wag shaming towards other fanbases and act condescending to people just because they haven't played every game on the planet.
I imagine the situation will be sort of similar to Banjo, honestly. The initial reaction was more of a "seriously? why were they added?", but that died down pretty quickly. Geno is a little bit more obscure in the regards to him only really being in one game, but it was a game where he was a co-protagonist with Mario, so it's not like it was a random 3rd party game. I think people will wonder why it happened for a little bit and then move on. *shrug*

As for the Geno fans, I'm sure some will try to rub it in other's people's faces because that's what people do, but I for one will be content with him just being in.
 
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Ura

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I'm still of the theory that Min was not meant to be the first character. There is an old, likely fake leak from 2ch that got reposted on 4chan that stated the entire order of FP2 and Byleth was swapped around to throw off leakers. Basically our last fighter of the first fighters pass was supposed to be Ryu Hayabusa (who several leakers were backing since before E3 2019), but they moved Byleth up from FP2 to take his spot and cast doubt. If this is to be believed, then it wouldn't be hard to extrapolate out and say all of FP2 had been switched around.
That's false actually. IIRC, the old VA for Byleth was bragging about doing the character in Smash Bros around July-ish last year and Sakurai said he played the game early. So strong doubt on there being any kind of swapping.
 

CopperKoopa

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266
This reminds me of why I was mad that trophy descriptions weren't a thing anymore. You only get random little snippets during loading screens, and without that you'd have little to no way of knowing who anyone is in Ultimate if you didn't already.
This! Even if trophies never return, I'd love some sort of biography mode, maybe a model viewer attached. Let me read up on all the fighters, assists and whatever else with the ability to mess around with the model. Basically trophies but super minimal effort!
 

MattX20

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That's false actually. IIRC, the old VA for Byleth was bragging about doing the character in Smash Bros around July-ish last year and Sakurai said he played the game early. So strong doubt on there being any kind of swapping.
Said bragging along with other...details that I won't go into is why he was recast
 

Ura

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Said bragging along with other...details that I won't go into is why he was recast
Yeah pretty much, that was really yikes. But the sticker here is that the guy broke the NDA back then showing that this was in the works for a long time.
 

SpectreJordan

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Same here. I sort of expect
Geno
Master Chief
Rex
Zelda character (if we go by the mentality of that we are getting Geno and/or Waluigi because 35th anniversary of Mario, I don´t get why we should have in the back of our mind that we at least are getting one Zelda rep since its Legend of Zeldas 35th anniversary next year)
Dead Nintendo franchise that Fatman has talked about
Dead Nintendo franchise that Fatman has talked about
I could see that happening too. It would depend on how big those Nintendo revivals are though. I don’t think Nintendo would promote them in Smash if they’re a Paper Mario: TOK/Kirby: Star Allies type game; but if they’re Arms/FE: 3 Houses then it could happen.

& yeah I think a Zelda character is pretty likely. Zelda’s lackluster representation one of the biggest complaints that the Smash community has.

A new Zelda character would be really easy to add to please the fans & it’d help Nintendo’s continued push for that series (it’s been almost yearly for a while now).

I know Link is the BOTW version & we have the stage. But I feel the impact that game’s created & how beloved it is would definitely justify a character that solely reps that game (or its sequel).

As for the Terry discussion, it’s something that annoys me about Smash speculation. I know this is a Nintendo exclusive game with a Nintendo dominant roster. But with the series’s slow expansion into the larger gaming world, it’s annoying that a lot of people are sort of ignorant to games outside of the Nintendo bubble.

Terry is definitely not a “Literally Who”. He’s not as big as most of the third party characters that came before him, but he’s still a notable character from two notable franchises.
 
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Spatulo

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Said bragging along with other...details that I won't go into is why he was recast
Every once in a while I think about how the guy who made Rawest Forest was almost in the Smash that’s going to have Geno.

All he had to do was not be a ********...
 

MattX20

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Every once in a while I think about how the guy who made Rawest Forest was almost in the Smash that’s going to have Geno.

All he had to do was not be a ********...
He didn't do the song, just the animation. But yes, Geno's got a good chance of being in Ultimate
 

SNEKeater

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I don't feel like you can't deny Terry is niche though, because he absolutely is. But me saying Terry is "niche" is not the same as saying Terry isn't iconic.

Lets compare these 3:

Terry Brogard: SNK was/is a pioneer of fighting games and there is no denying that. While they never reached the heights of Capcom, they definitely have a core fanbase surrounding them. But even then, it's more so their legacy that's important rather than their popularity. I mean most of their games sell around 200-500k copies worldwide, and it's not like the series is expanding at a crazy rate.

Sol Badguy: ArcSys pretty much created the Anime Fighting Game subgenre, and nowadays they're pretty well known within the dedicated fighting game crowd. But then again, while Guilty Gear is popular within the hardcore fighting game crowd; they're still pretty niche overall selling similarly to 200-500k copies worldwide per entry.

Adol Christin: Falcom is a pioneer of JRPGs/Adventure games, and the Dragon Slayer game pretty much inspired a lot of future series like Zelda. They've been in the RPG business longer then Square, and Adol is like a year younger than Link. If you're in the dedicated JRPG crowd chances are that you've heard of Ys/Trails. But again, at most those games sell 200-500k usually.

They're all icons, definitely. But they're all also niche.

There's a huge difference between series like Kingdom Hearts with 30mil+ copies sold, and Fatal Fury/KoF, Guilty Gear, Ys with 2-5 million sales collectively. Sure, you may personally have not played KH but it doesn't take a lot of research to figure out that those games have bigger playerbases comparatively.

That's not to say they shouldn't get into Smash, because I personally am fine with any of them getting in; but you can't deny that each series is niche. Yet despite that they're all important to their own respective genres, and they paved the way for a ton of other series as well. There is no denying that.
I don't think it's really fair to talk about how well or how bad Fatal Fury or KoF has sold when back then the majority of fighting games were synonym of the arcades. Which usually means not selling a lot of copies.
Not saying that if the arcades didn't exist, King of Fighters would be the best selling franchise in gaming or something like that, but at the same time it's hard to tell how a fighting game performed in sales during the golden era of the arcades.

As for your example. While I totally get your point, I don't really agree that much. Terry or some of the SNK main characters have a wider appeal than characters such as Adol Christin or Sol Badguy.

I mean, I'm not gonna pretend like I've played Fatal Fury or KoF all my life, but I knew who Terry was since I was young. I played some KoF here and there when I was 7 or 8? but not really that much, and I have always recognized Terry's design, which I find very iconic or easy to recognize, something that doesn't really apply to Sol or Adol, or at least not in the same extent.
My brother never played these games and besides 1-2 titles has barely played traditional fighting games in his life, when the SNK leak popped up I showed him a photo of Terry and Mai when I told him about the leak and while he didn't knew or didn't remembered their names, he instantly recognized them.

Yeah, I know this isn't definitive proof or anything, it's just my case, but I feel that everything doesn't have to be black or white. I feel that there is something in between "big hitters" and "niche" characters, and that place is where I feel Terry fits better. He's not Ryu, Cloud or Snake, that's for sure, but I don't really think he belongs to the group of Sol and Adol.

I agree that being a niche character doesn't mean you aren't iconic or popular within certain circles or demographics, but I really think Terry is a grey character in that sense, if we follow the black and white example I mentioned before.
 

MattX20

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I don't think it's really fair to talk about how well or how bad Fatal Fury or KoF has sold when back then the majority of fighting games were synonym of the arcades. Which usually means not selling a lot of copies.
Not saying that if the arcades didn't exist, King of Fighters would be the best selling franchise in gaming or something like that, but at the same time it's hard to tell how a fighting game performed in sales during the golden era of the arcades.

As for your example. While I totally get your point, I don't really agree that much. Terry or some of the SNK main characters have a wider appeal than characters such as Adol Christin or Sol Badguy.

I mean, I'm not gonna pretend like I've played Fatal Fury or KoF all my life, but I knew who Terry was since I was young. I played some KoF here and there when I was 7 or 8? but not really that much, and I have always recognized Terry's design, which I find very iconic or easy to recognize, something that doesn't really apply to Sol or Adol, or at least not in the same extent.
My brother never played these games and besides 1-2 titles has barely played traditional fighting games in his life, when the SNK leak popped up I showed him a photo of Terry and Mai when I told him about the leak and while he didn't knew or didn't remembered their names, he instantly recognized them.

Yeah, I know this isn't definitive proof or anything, it's just my case, but I feel that everything doesn't have to be black or white. I feel that there is something in between "big hitters" and "niche" characters, and that place is where I feel Terry fits better. He's not Ryu, Cloud or Snake, that's for sure, but I don't really think he belongs to the group of Sol and Adol.

I agree that being a niche character doesn't mean you aren't iconic or popular within certain circles or demographics, but I really think Terry is a grey character in that sense, if we follow the black and white example I mentioned before.
I knew who Terry was prior to the reveal and was excited to see him in. But in any case, we need to get back on topic with FP7 everyone
 

Heoj

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Oct 26, 2018
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545
I didnt know who terry was before and honestly his challenger pack ended up being my favourite pack. Joker, Banjo and Min min are all really fun to play and so is terry, but the amount of banger music tracks and the insane amount of cameos easily turned terry into my favourite pack. I would definitely trade fp1 for some of the grinch gang, but i would definitely keep terry.
So probably something like joker, geno, banjo, terry, isaac and shadow.
 

Firox

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I knew who Terry was prior to the reveal and was excited to see him in. But in any case, we need to get back on topic with FP7 everyone
Agreed. The question isn't so much whether people know Terry, but whether they know Geno. We must spread the sweet gospel of Geno to the four corners of the earth. Every mouth must confess that Geno is the one and only puppet through which salvation comes.
 

AdamBel731

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On the topic of who is "iconic" and who isn't, to me, that very blend of characters is part of what makes Smash special to me! The fact that the game stars both iconic and more niche gaming characters is part of its appeal! For a personal example, Pikmin is a franchise I adore but unfortunately the series isn't that recognizable and if Smash were about just adding recognize gaming characters, I doubt Olimar would even be in the game. Yeah it would be cool to always get iconic characters, but gaming is full of smaller titles and/or cult classics, so I think having less "iconic" characters is quite representative of gaming! (After all, if we were to only choose iconic and relevant characters, unfortunately characters like Geno wouldn't even be in Smash discussions and definitely wouldn't be playable. So I for one welcome smaller characters!)



P.S.: Today is my 18th birthday, whoop whoop!
20200731_094548.jpg

Do you think if I wished upon Star Road today for you guys to get Geno, it is more likely to happen due to it being a birthday wish?

(Not that it matters since Geno is already gonna be in Fighters Pass Vol. 2 regardless.)
 
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mynameisBlade

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I don't dislike Terry or anything but it's simply a fact that he isn't a major character in any capacity, that's why Sakurai went out of his way to say that the primary reason he adds fighters isn't just icon status, but how fun they are. If Terry wasn't in the game nobody would be like "Where's Terry?". Sure he has his fans, but there's a reason he wasn't discussed much before his reveal.

Edit: Keep in mind I'd also say Geno is a very niche character in the grand scheme of things too, just to clarify I'm not being a hypocrite.
I agree with this. Ironically this argument works for Geno. If the DLC finishes and Geno is nowhere to be seen. Even Geno haters would be taunting with "Where is that Geno guy, huh??". He is def a missing puzzle piece to the Smash franchise due to fan demand alone.
 
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