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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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super88cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
400
Switch FC
Sw-1747-1648-3976
PapaGeno's discord is full of Smash zoomers who absolutely abhor Geno and everything else associated with boomerdom because their older brothers used to give them a hard time over "whose turn" it was to play video games. I can see the pain in his eyes when he has to entertain the idea that yet another literally-who might be hinted at because his fanbase would crucify him if he dismissed them outright.

A lot of them are contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, just off hand I was involved in a ridiculous argument where multiple people were all very confident that Undyne from Undertale had an infinitely higher chance of getting into Smash than Geno, and another where a completely different group of people were all quite vocally expressing the idea that Jimmy T would get in over Ashley in a world where WarioWare had a second Smash character. In reference to the various character polls I've seen a lot of people say how they would prefer none of the highly polled characters make it as DLC as they prefer to be surprised.

Papa is in a really precarious position where if he expresses his desire and discounts the idea of the "premium Mii Geno" that NuSmash fans have cooked up, he'll be a target of his discord's ire.
So Sans makes the Mii costume but Undyne gets in? Sure... that´s gonna ¨happen¨
I´m jaded but when zoomers are annoying, they´re just memers with no taste and logic.
Jesus christ, all surprise characters for the dlc instead of the highly requested characters?
We would end up getting characters around the ballpark of sly cooper, Ryo from Shenmue, Ruby Heart and the goddamn ship from Asteroids. ( If you like those characters for Smash, I am sorry if you got caught in the crossfire)

-_- people out here saying Fates and modern Paper Mario games are full on bad games. They are definitely empty and soulless, but I wouldn't call them bad games. Conquest by itself has the most polished gameplay out of all the nuFE games, even if Fates story and characters are complete trash. And Paper Mario while it sucks comparatively to the glory days, still works as a product and has some decent music still.

Bad games are things that don't work at all and have massive bugs cough cough Sonic 06 cough cough. Fates and new Paper Mario are lukewarm or middling at worst.
Real BAD games are rare nowadays in the AAA and AA developers circles. I remember getting things like any LICENSED game in the SNES, and Quest 64.
Hell, the gamecube still had some mediocre to bad games like Rogue Ops.
I bet Fates and PM TOK still have the nintendo polish but lack that extra detail that Nintendo seems to avoid like the plague for most of it´s history.:
Story.
The zelda games have cutscenes that remind me of B/W movies.
Both FE games that I have played have mediocre stories, Fates and Three houses live and die in their characters. The presentation of the plots of both games are simple.
It´s one of the things that made me buy a ps3,ps4.
I need something more in my games.
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
2,219
It has now been 0 days since the "Corrin is bad" card has been played. :4pacman:
EDIT: Wrong person, but oh well lol
I mean, to be fair, they didn't really earn it. Blatent shill character nobody asked for from a game from an over represented franchise that ended up performing poorly. At least Byleth had a good game behind them, Corrin has no business being here if this is supposed to be a hall of fame.

Yep, I played the card, feel fry to slam me, guys. I was just giving my honest opinion.

A lot of them are contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, just off hand I was involved in a ridiculous argument where multiple people were all very confident that Undyne from Undertale had an infinitely higher chance of getting into Smash than Geno, and another where a completely different group of people were all quite vocally expressing the idea that Jimmy T would get in over Ashley in a world where WarioWare had a second Smash character. In reference to the various character polls I've seen a lot of people say how they would prefer none of the highly polled characters make it as DLC as they prefer to be surprised.
It extends far beyond PapaGenos' Discord, the characters people act like are super likely for no reason whatsoever (KOS-MOS, etc) are ridiculous and show just how delusional some people are.


If we are talking about bad games like Bubsy, than I agree. But if we are talking about underrated obscure games like the Goemon games or Mischief Makers than I disagree. I think underrated obscure characters should get in once in awhile to make the roster more diverse and unique. Goemon is already a Mii costume so I would he isn't a pipedream anymore even though he isn't very likely to become playable in the future.
Goemon was a fantastic choice, and even if he's just a Mii Costume I'm glad to see him here!
 
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RetrogamerMax

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
12,221
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
IMO I still think characters from bad games shouldn't be allowed in Smash. A Gaming Hall of Fame shouldn't allow characters like Bubsy or the CheetahMen in. And Paper Mario's games are bad right now. So he shouldn't get in until Nintendo fixes it.
If we are talking about bad games like Bubsy, than I agree. But if we are talking about underrated obscure games like the Goemon games or Mischief Makers than I disagree. I think underrated obscure characters should get in once in awhile to make the roster more diverse and unique. Goemon is already a Mii costume so I would say he isn't a pipedream anymore even though he isn't very likely to become playable in the future.
 
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pinshadow

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
1,479
Right, so basically before Ultimate's final roster was revealed, we had no idea who would end up getting in. As such, a lot of fanbases all thought that their character was more likely for completely different reasons. Whether it be because of chairs in the background, trademarks getting renewed, new games coming out soon, or simply because they really wanted them, everyone was able to sit in their little gated communities and circlejerk about how their character would get in over everyone else.

But when November rolled around, and that final roster was revealed, a lot of these communities had to come to terms with the harsh reality that, unless they were popular enough or had enough going in their favor, their character most likely isn't getting in. No Skull Kid, no Ashley, no Shovel Knight. Even though there was still DLC yet to come, the chances of characters like Slippy or Bandanna Waddle Dee getting included as DLC were slim to none.

As a result, they became cynical and jaded. Speculation became less fun due to the pool of hopefuls being significantly reduced, and those that were left weren't the ones they wanted. They began to deeply resent those remaining fan-favorites more than ever, given that such fan demand was most likely the impetus for the likes of Ridley and King K. Rool making it in to begin with. I think that helps explain in part why Banjo's hatedom pre-reveal was so strong compared to Ridley or King K. Rool, and why Geno's is so strong today.

These people can't stand that their characters doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting in whereas, at this current moment, the likes of Geno, Rex, and pretty much any characters that aren't the ones they want, still do. They'll try everything in their power to shame you and tear you down in the vain hope that somehow, some way, it'll make them feel better about what they don't have. It hasn't, it can't, and it won't. Miserable people dewlling on the past will never find peace.

The only way these people will begin feeling better about themselves is for them to just get the **** over it already. Be thankful for the 80+ characters we already have in the game and stop being a prick.


How do I delete someone else's Smashboards account? :ultpacman:
See, what people need to realize is that the exact same scenario of the November 2018 direct had actually happened about 3 years earlier in the Final Smash 4 Presentation, to the point where I am fully convinced Nintendo's Smash Marketing Department is either full of complete idiots or absolute mad-men fully aware of the consequences of their actions (how Ultimate handled CERTAIN Assist Trophies being revealed leads me to believe the latter).

Let's put this into context, November 12th, 2015. It's been 5 MONTHS since the last character reveal at E3 with Ryu, and just over a month since the ballot finished. You've waited through a relatively above average Wii U era direct for one reason, figure out who the hell won the damn thing. And who do they decide to reveal at the very end? CLOUD. It's really difficult to put into context for those who weren't really into this at the time, or even to go back into that old mindset, but Cloud was a meme-pick on the level of something like Sans would be now (or well, a year or two ago I guess). The kind of thing where the moment you bring it up you get laughed out of a room. Cloud? From FF7? Are you insane? He's not even on a Nintendo system! And yet, there he was. And the craziest thing?

He's not even the person that won. HE WAS THE APPETIZER.

Seriously, looking back at how people reacted at the time, the posts people were making after he got announced, people saw him as the straw that broke the camels back, he brought in this idea that "all bets are off now". If they're revealing Cloud now, then who the hell could they be saving for the Smash Direct? Now combine that with the fact that whoever was going to be revealed HAD to be a fan favorite, I mean it was the BALLOT WINNER, it has to be someone fans REALLY wanted. So you combine these two sources of sky high expectations to create this boiling volcano of hype, but being honest hype that, at the time given what we knew, felt justified.

So after 8 months of arguing over the ballot, after completely breaking people with Cloud, with people going in expecting to see some fan favorite ballot winner, who do they reveal? Corrin, ANOTHER anime swordsman, also from Fire Emblem, WHO'S GAME WASN'T EVEN OUT YET IN THE WEST. In otherwords, quite literally the exact opposite of a fan-favorite character at the time, seriously I struggle to even think of a worse possible character to reveal here. So, ok, not a good start, but now we have the REAL winner of the ballot, WHO COULD IT POSSIBLY BE OTHER THAN... Bayonetta? Uhhhhhh...ok?

Now, I think she deserves to be in the game and like that she's here, but from the instant she got revealed it really felt off that she of all characters won. Was she popular? Decently so, but #1 in the world? I've looked myself, I can't even find a single poll that puts her in Top 5 characters from around the time of the ballot. It just felt really underwhelming at the time, and what we've learned since then, that veterans like Snake and other "unrealizable" characters did better than her according to Sakurai, and that datamining (and basic logic based on what Sakurai has said about character development) proves she was in the games data as early as TWO WEEKS after it was announced, just puts this really sour taste in your mouth with the idea that the ballot was more of a promotional stunt than an actual way to gauge fan interest. Obviously with Ultimate that has proven otherwise but again, this was at the time. There was a lot of bitterness about it, especially around Corrin, but it was also the end of a hype cycle so it didn't last long, people simmered down.

Now, lets apply this same sort of logic to Ultimate. E3, who do they reveal? RIDLEY, the most contentious character in the history of Smash Bros, to the point where even Sakurai felt the need to address it. Two months later? Oh yea, here's Simon, oh and one more thing, here's KING K. ROOL, only one of the most popular smash requests of all time. And you know why he's here? Because YOU asked for him in the BALLOT. Yea, we listened this time. Do you know what kind of expectation that sets? Well, if they've revealed Ridley and K.Rool first, they have to be saving something BIG for the last few characters right? If they really are listening it has to be someone popular! And who do they reveal, the final character? A new Pokemon. TRULY THE MOST UNEXPECTED SUPRISE, ANOTHER SHILLMON, EVERYONE ASKED FOR THIS! But wait, theres one more thing! Who could it possibly be other than... a Piranha Plant. A PIRANHA PLANT. A P I R A N H A P L A N T.

See, here's the big difference with this and Smash 4 though. When the bitterness set in for that game, it was at the end of the speculation cycle. When the bitterness set in for Ultimate, we were only 1/2, and now 1/3rd, of the way done. And with us then learning that all the DLC was pre-decided unlike 4, and NINTENDO was at the reigns, the hopes for pretty much every popular first-party character basically died on the spot. Even now, even with Spirits Deconfirmed being chucked out, there's still this general feeling that aside from a small pool of characters, Nintendo isn't nearly as likely as Sakurai to cater to fans, and with what we've seen so far it really has panned out that way. Seriously, out of the 6 DLC characters we've gotten so far I'd argue only one of them was even REMOTELY popular in the Smash community beforehand. That's not an entirely bad thing, but it is a little disheartening.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
To drive the conversation past that Sweet, Sweet 3,000 marker in time for the 20th...

What would everyone like to see in a SMRPG Sequel? What would be a good arc for GENO’s triumphant return. Or if included in the mainline franchise/traditional Mario title(s), what would you like his role or contribution to be?
If there were a sequel of SMRPG, I'd like to see characters like Jonathan Jones and Croco become party members.

As for the story, I have an idea. Rosalina is the leader of the lumas, and Geno is a star spirit. I think it would be interesting if something connecting the two were worked into a game.

Also increase the lazy shell's attack by 777 :estatic:
 

Griselda

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
1,072
I think the biggest problem with character fanbases 'fighting' each other is that what we're fighting at this point is essentially a pointless battle. One of us has already 'won', a long time ago. Or perhaps none of us. Barring any bizarre last-minute inclusions like Sonic or the chance of a third Fighters Pass, the dust has already settled. It's like that scene in The Princess Bride where they're trying to analyze the outcome of a battle that's already passed based on footprints and upturned dirt and stuff.
 

QQS

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
1,171
Instead of Paper Mario getting the invitation, he IS the invitation.

I never knew I needed this until now.
I firmly believe in a double reveal next Direct:

Geno-Crash
Geno-Paper Mario
Geno-Waluigi

Geno trailer will be insanely perfect. I have seen Mega Man trailer probably 200 times and Banjo-Kazooie 100 times. I’m starting to worry about how many thousand times I will see Geno trailer.

EDIT: Happy post #400 for me! Eternal 30 years old fan but aprox. one year here with you people! Also 36 pages left for page 3.000 and few days left for Geno to be revealed as fighter #77.

GENO RETURNS FROM THE STARS!
 
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RedMachine123

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Messages
130
Location
Spain
Right, so basically before Ultimate's final roster was revealed, we had no idea who would end up getting in. As such, a lot of fanbases all thought that their character was more likely for completely different reasons. Whether it be because of chairs in the background, trademarks getting renewed, new games coming out soon, or simply because they really wanted them, everyone was able to sit in their little gated communities and circlejerk about how their character would get in over everyone else.

But when November rolled around, and that final roster was revealed, a lot of these communities had to come to terms with the harsh reality that, unless they were popular enough or had enough going in their favor, their character most likely isn't getting in. No Skull Kid, no Ashley, no Shovel Knight. Even though there was still DLC yet to come, the chances of characters like Slippy or Bandanna Waddle Dee getting included as DLC were slim to none.

As a result, they became cynical and jaded. Speculation became less fun due to the pool of hopefuls being significantly reduced, and those that were left weren't the ones they wanted. They began to deeply resent those remaining fan-favorites more than ever, given that such fan demand was most likely the impetus for the likes of Ridley and King K. Rool making it in to begin with. I think that helps explain in part why Banjo's hatedom pre-reveal was so strong compared to Ridley or King K. Rool, and why Geno's is so strong today.

These people can't stand that their characters doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting in whereas, at this current moment, the likes of Geno, Rex, and pretty much any characters that aren't the ones they want, still do. They'll try everything in their power to shame you and tear you down in the vain hope that somehow, some way, it'll make them feel better about what they don't have. It hasn't, it can't, and it won't. Miserable people dewlling on the past will never find peace.

The only way these people will begin feeling better about themselves is for them to just get the **** over it already. Be thankful for the 80+ characters we already have in the game and stop being a prick.
See, what people need to realize is that the exact same scenario of the November 2018 direct had actually happened about 3 years earlier in the Final Smash 4 Presentation, to the point where I am fully convinced Nintendo's Smash Marketing Department is either full of complete idiots or absolute mad-men fully aware of the consequences of their actions (how Ultimate handled CERTAIN Assist Trophies being revealed leads me to believe the latter).

Let's put this into context, November 12th, 2015. It's been 5 MONTHS since the last character reveal at E3 with Ryu, and just over a month since the ballot finished. You've waited through a relatively above average Wii U era direct for one reason, figure out who the hell won the damn thing. And who do they decide to reveal at the very end? CLOUD. It's really difficult to put into context for those who weren't really into this at the time, or even to go back into that old mindset, but Cloud was a meme-pick on the level of something like Sans would be now (or well, a year or two ago I guess). The kind of thing where the moment you bring it up you get laughed out of a room. Cloud? From FF7? Are you insane? He's not even on a Nintendo system! And yet, there he was. And the craziest thing?

He's not even the person that won. HE WAS THE APPETIZER.

Seriously, looking back at how people reacted at the time, the posts people were making after he got announced, people saw him as the straw that broke the camels back, he brought in this idea that "all bets are off now". If they're revealing Cloud now, then who the hell could they be saving for the Smash Direct? Now combine that with the fact that whoever was going to be revealed HAD to be a fan favorite, I mean it was the BALLOT WINNER, it has to be someone fans REALLY wanted. So you combine these two sources of sky high expectations to create this boiling volcano of hype, but being honest hype that, at the time given what we knew, felt justified.

So after 8 months of arguing over the ballot, after completely breaking people with Cloud, with people going in expecting to see some fan favorite ballot winner, who do they reveal? Corrin, ANOTHER anime swordsman, also from Fire Emblem, WHO'S GAME WASN'T EVEN OUT YET IN THE WEST. In otherwords, quite literally the exact opposite of a fan-favorite character at the time, seriously I struggle to even think of a worse possible character to reveal here. So, ok, not a good start, but now we have the REAL winner of the ballot, WHO COULD IT POSSIBLY BE OTHER THAN... Bayonetta? Uhhhhhh...ok?

Now, I think she deserves to be in the game and like that she's here, but from the instant she got revealed it really felt off that she of all characters won. Was she popular? Decently so, but #1 in the world? I've looked myself, I can't even find a single poll that puts her in Top 5 characters from around the time of the ballot. It just felt really underwhelming at the time, and what we've learned since then, that veterans like Snake and other "unrealizable" characters did better than her according to Sakurai, and that datamining (and basic logic based on what Sakurai has said about character development) proves she was in the games data as early as TWO WEEKS after it was announced, just puts this really sour taste in your mouth with the idea that the ballot was more of a promotional stunt than an actual way to gauge fan interest. Obviously with Ultimate that has proven otherwise but again, this was at the time. There was a lot of bitterness about it, especially around Corrin, but it was also the end of a hype cycle so it didn't last long, people simmered down.

Now, lets apply this same sort of logic to Ultimate. E3, who do they reveal? RIDLEY, the most contentious character in the history of Smash Bros, to the point where even Sakurai felt the need to address it. Two months later? Oh yea, here's Simon, oh and one more thing, here's KING K. ROOL, only one of the most popular smash requests of all time. And you know why he's here? Because YOU asked for him in the BALLOT. Yea, we listened this time. Do you know what kind of expectation that sets? Well, if they've revealed Ridley and K.Rool first, they have to be saving something BIG for the last few characters right? If they really are listening it has to be someone popular! And who do they reveal, the final character? A new Pokemon. TRULY THE MOST UNEXPECTED SUPRISE, ANOTHER SHILLMON, EVERYONE ASKED FOR THIS! But wait, theres one more thing! Who could it possibly be other than... a Piranha Plant. A PIRANHA PLANT. A P I R A N H A P L A N T.

See, here's the big difference with this and Smash 4 though. When the bitterness set in for that game, it was at the end of the speculation cycle. When the bitterness set in for Ultimate, we were only 1/2, and now 1/3rd, of the way done. And with us then learning that all the DLC was pre-decided unlike 4, and NINTENDO was at the reigns, the hopes for pretty much every popular first-party character basically died on the spot. Even now, even with Spirits Deconfirmed being chucked out, there's still this general feeling that aside from a small pool of characters, Nintendo isn't nearly as likely as Sakurai to cater to fans, and with what we've seen so far it really has panned out that way. Seriously, out of the 6 DLC characters we've gotten so far I'd argue only one of them was even REMOTELY popular in the Smash community beforehand. That's not an entirely bad thing, but it is a little disheartening.
Man, this is depressing to read, I didn't know any of this because I joined the Smash community after the Banjo & Kazooie reveal. This explains why the Smash community is so toxic, I really hope that someday this community can leave this self hate circle that hurted so many people during all these years.
 

QQS

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
1,171
I like how nobody is mentioning Rayman as a very likely candidate for the next character slot lol
15FEF21C-DCE1-408B-99EA-AE928A845903.jpeg


Actually if you look post 118.421 on page 2961 I recently talked about him. He is a solid candidate and almost everyone in this thread acknowledge him!
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Man, this is depressing to read, I didn't know any of this because I joined the Smash community after the Banjo & Kazooie reveal. This explains why the Smash community is so toxic, I really hope that someday this community can leave this self hate circle that hurted so many people during all these years.
This isn't limited to just Smash either. Multiple Nintendo communities have suffered, primarily because of the Switch's more prominent user base.

Animal Crossing used to be so chill, until it turned sour with New Horizons. Gate-keeping certain villagers, selling in-game items for real money.. none of this used to be there before the Switch. The divide between modern and classic Paper Mario. The controversy behind Sword and Shield. Three Houses too (even if I personally like that game).

Literally every single Nintendo game on the Switch has had some level of controversy. So I can't help but hate the Switch sometimes for what it has (maybe indirectly) done to permanently damage what was otherwise stable and nice communities before it existed.

If you dare critique one of modern Nintendo's games nowadays, you're met with death threats, condescending and mocking comments sent your way, and they call you entitled. This was *never* like this during the Wii U days.
 
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Akg0001

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
277
NNID
Akin01
PapaGenos is just being realistic. Nothing wrong with that. You dont have to think "Geno will 100% be in" to be a Geno fan and a Geno supporter.

Also you guys put way to much weight in Fatmans theories. There are so many video game characters out there and I always read the same characters here. The same characters Fatman is hearing from his "sources".

Example: Imo Rex & Pyra are very likely. Many people think this too. But here? I dont see people talk about them because Fatman is not talking much about them.

Rex is just an example. There are tons of other characters. Personally I think Geno will be FP9 or FP10. But the possibility of a Mii costume is also very likely. It would be a very stupid move of Nintendo/Sakurai to wait that long for heavy requested character and then just reveal him as a Mii costume, but that would not be the first time they doing something that stupid...

I usually only read here. If you dont want to have people here that are realistic or even a bit pessimistic, then say it and I will go away.
 

super88cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
400
Switch FC
Sw-1747-1648-3976
To drive the conversation past that Sweet, Sweet 3,000 marker in time for the 20th...

What would everyone like to see in a SMRPG Sequel? What would be a good arc for GENO’s triumphant return. Or if included in the mainline franchise/traditional Mario title(s), what would you like his role or contribution to be?
Honestly, I want them bad guys back. All of them. They´re just too funny looking and iconic. But. I also want every single past Mario RPG big bad villain back.
Let them all loose and have some entity behind it all. Probably the Shadow queen. Booster hitting on her. Booster vs Wario.
Luigi and Wario in the team. Also instead of a triumphant return. You find Geno at first, and he´s like injured!
So I want an all star Mario RPG game basically.
 

AceAttorney9000

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
1,881
What would everyone like to see in a SMRPG Sequel?
I want the partner characters from Paper Mario 64 and The Thousand-Year Door to come back.

... I know, never gonna happen even if a Super Mario RPG sequel happens, but it's not like those characters are gonna be showing up in Mario Kart Tour or other spin-off games any time soon, so...
 

TheCJBrine

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
12,065
Location
New World, Minecraft
I usually only read here. If you dont want to have people here that are realistic or even a bit pessimistic, then say it and I will go away.
There’s nothing wrong with being realistic or pessimistic. Just because we don’t discuss characters like Rex much doesn’t mean we 100% agree with Fatman’s predictions though we do think they could happen. We all have our own ideas of what’s likely/realistic.
 

Dynamic Worlok

Shunted into the bad timeline
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
1,639
Personally I think Geno will be FP9 or FP10. But the possibility of a Mii costume is also very likely. It would be a very stupid move of Nintendo/Sakurai to wait that long for heavy requested character and then just reveal him as a Mii costume, but that would not be the first time they doing something that stupid...

I usually only read here. If you dont want to have people here that are realistic or even a bit pessimistic, then say it and I will go away.
I can acknowledge the possibility of a mii costume. Hell, we've all been doing that since hero. But there's a particular niggly little thing that's bugged me about speculation during that time, and up through until now. Speculation is just that, speculation, and people on both sides of the aisle take it way too seriously. In the days before hero's release (or erdrick, as we were calling him) it was an unwritten rule that your speculation would not be taken seriously unless you were to pay obeisance to erdrick. For those unfamiliar with the term, it's a gesture of deferential respect. Meaning you had to admit, any time you wanted to speculate on any other square character, that erdrick was still more likely, otherwise you'd be written off as biased or unrealistic. Hero's eventual inclusion only served to give vindication to this manner of speculative gatekeeping, when it shouldn't. I see a similar trend popping up with the so called "deluxe" Mii costumes. We don't need to be reminded that Geno might be a mii costume, it's already happened once before. We've already seen Mii costumes from the previous games not get upgraded. We know the stakes, but it's insulting to have to pay this obeisance to the deluxe Mii costume for anyone to take us seriously.

I don't think you should leave, on the contrary, I think you should stay and engage in discussion. These aren't things I'm accusing you of, by any stretch, your post merely offered a convenient jumping off point for a rant I was already going to make. (So thanks for that!)
 

Giveaway412

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
60
Location
Florida, USA
I wouldn't consider Rex to be terribly likely either. I know Min Min broke the spirit rule, and I know Rex deserves it, but I don't think we're going to see the Mii Costume rule broken anytime soon. A spirit is just a .png in the game files, but I think Sakurai thinks that Mii Costumes are the next best thing to getting into the game as a playable fighter.
 

Griselda

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
1,072
I don't think that a theory or viewpoint becomes more realistic just because it involves Geno not becoming a fighter.
 

MisterMike

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,252
Let's put this into context, November 12th, 2015. It's been 5 MONTHS since the last character reveal at E3 with Ryu, and just over a month since the ballot finished. You've waited through a relatively above average Wii U era direct for one reason, figure out who the hell won the damn thing. And who do they decide to reveal at the very end? CLOUD. It's really difficult to put into context for those who weren't really into this at the time, or even to go back into that old mindset, but Cloud was a meme-pick on the level of something like Sans would be now (or well, a year or two ago I guess). The kind of thing where the moment you bring it up you get laughed out of a room. Cloud? From FF7? Are you insane? He's not even on a Nintendo system! And yet, there he was. And the craziest thing?

He's not even the person that won. HE WAS THE APPETIZER.
CloudStrifeTheAppetizer.png


"The 2nd Sumabura SP Online Challenge Final Tournament"
... I have no idea what this could mean, I don't speak Italian.

Example: Imo Rex & Pyra are very likely. Many people think this too. But here? I dont see people talk about them because Fatman is not talking much about them.
Actually, I've mentioned them just about every time I've made a FPV2 prediction post, and I've done that rather frequently.
Some examples:
No idea. Min Min really isn't really enough for me to go off of in terms of predicting who'll be next. That said, I do believe that Rex & Pyra (and Mythra) have a strong chance of making it in before Vol. 2 is done.
While I don't have a wants list, I guess I'll post my likely list:
  • Min Min - *slurp*
  • Geno - You already know.
  • Lloyd Irving - Costume isn't here and Heihachi is sadly out of the running.
  • Rex & Pyra - Was planned for base game but couldn't happen due to bad timing, Spirits don't disconfirm.
  • Crash Bandicoot - One of the last big platformer mascot characters, huge resurgence as of late,
  • FREE SPACE - I have no idea who else to put here, maybe Waluigi, Steve or Master Chief?
Well given that 'The "Rule" That Shall Not Be Named' is dead and gone, I'd say that Rex & Pyra are very likely this time around.
Want: Geno - While I wouldn't say he's a guarentee, I think he has a decent chance of getting this this time around for a variety of reasons. He's still lacking his costume despite there being plenty of great opprotunities to bring it back, and Ultimate thus far has been pretty amazing with regards to including such fan requested characters, so at this point I woundn't be too suprised if he got in.

Expect: Rex & Pyra - Much like with an ARMS character, the only thing that stopped Rex & Pyra from getting included was their game being released long after both the base roster, as well as the first Fighters Pass, were decided. Now that that's no longer the case (and since it's now apparent that Spirits don't disconfirm), I believe they're a very likely choice for this Fighters Pass.
I guess since we're once again posting about potential characters for Vol.2, I'll post my revised predictions here as well.
View attachment 272469
  1. ARMS Fighter - I'm fully putting my proverbial chips behind the idea that this fighter will be a 4-in-1 deal. The logic behind this is quite simple: this is the first time in Smash history that we've ever had a fighter's franchise revealed before the fighter themselves. If the fighter was only going to be a single character, why not just reveal who that is rather than play this guessing game, especially if that character is just going to be the obvious choices of either Spring Man, Ribbon Girl or Min-Min? I reckon that if there doing something like this, they must have something bigger planned for this ARMS Fighter. I know some people are against the idea of the ARMS Fighter being a 4-in-1 character a la Hero, but I believe it could be really cool. I made a moveset concept for this hypothetical fighter if you'd like to see what I mean. As an aside, if we actually do end up only getting one ARMS character as the fighter, I'm placing my bets on Min-Min.
  2. Geno - Unsuprisingly, this character is still on my list. To keep things rather brief, there's the lack of his Mii Costume after Hero, several rumors and potential leaks surrounding him, Sakurai himself had acknowledged his popularity back during Smash 4, and the fact that so far we've gotten quite a few highly-requested "NEVER EVER" characters already, so it wouldn't be all too suprising to see him get in.
  3. Heihachi - Similarly to Geno, Heihachi's Mii Costume also hasn't returned despite having a perfect opprotunity to happen, that which being alongside Terry due to all of the Mii Costumes from that wave being from fighting games. I think it also helps that he was considered for Smash before during 4's DLC period. Sure, they couldn't work out his playstyle back then which is why they rejected him, but it's not like there haven't been characters that were initially rejected only to make it in later. (:ultvillager::ultvillagerf:, :ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter:, :ultridley:)
  4. Rex, Pyra & Mythra - As things stand now, the ARMS Fighter seems poised to break the "rule" that characters already in the game as Spirits can't later get in as fighters. If this actually ends up being the case, I honestly don't see any reason not to anticipate Rex, Pyra & Mythra getting in. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is huge, and they could've made it in the base game had their game's development not missed the window for inclusion. Now sure, there's the Rex Mii Costume already in the game, but I think that was only added because they had already planned out the first Fighter Pass and couldn't go back and change who they had picked, and that Fighter Pass was initially supposed to have been the only DLC we got for Ultimate, so they figured that costume was the best they could do. Now that that's not the case, I can imagine they wanted to add them in this time around.
  5. Crash Bandicoot - Unlike the other four I've listed, there really isn't a solid reason as to why I think he'll get in aside from my personal want to see him get in. It's be cool to have yet another of gaming's greatest in this game to duke it out with Mario, Sonic, Mega Man and the like.
  6. The Wildcard - You might call this cheating, but I seriously have no idea who the last fighter would be. To me the other 5 I've listed seem like the most likely inclusions, so I have no idea who the 6th could be. Waluigi would be cool simply for the sheer impact his inclusion would have. Steve would be a worthy addition as well given the sheer variety he'd bring to the table. Master Chief isn't a character I personally want to see (in the sense that I don't care for him either way) but I know he'd make a lot of people happy. Other wildcards would include Dante, Sora, an indie character like Shantae or Shovel Knight, Lloyd Irving, Isaac... and I think that's about it.
I can acknowledge the possibility of a mii costume. Hell, we've all been doing that since hero. But there's a particular niggly little thing that's bugged me about speculation during that time, and up through until now. Speculation is just that, speculation, and people on both sides of the aisle take it way too seriously. In the days before hero's release (or erdrick, as we were calling him) it was an unwritten rule that your speculation would not be taken seriously unless you were to pay obeisance to erdrick. For those unfamiliar with the term, it's a gesture of deferential respect. Meaning you had to admit, any time you wanted to speculate on any other square character, that erdrick was still more likely, otherwise you'd be written off as biased or unrealistic. Hero's eventual inclusion only served to give vindication to this manner of speculative gatekeeping, when it shouldn't. I see a similar trend popping up with the so called "deluxe" Mii costumes. We don't need to be reminded that Geno might be a mii costume, it's already happened once before. We've already seen Mii costumes from the previous games not get upgraded. We know the stakes, but it's insulting to have to pay this obeisance to the deluxe Mii costume for anyone to take us seriously.

I don't think you should leave, on the contrary, I think you should stay and engage in discussion. These aren't things I'm accusing you of, by any stretch, your post merely offered a convenient jumping off point for a rant I was already going to make. (So thanks for that!)
I don't find it insulting because of how frequently it's brought up or anything like that, but rather I find it insulting because of what such a statement implies. It implies that you don't believe that this character has a chance as a full-on fighter, because why else would you be suggesting it? Now of course this isn't always the case, but I feel it rarely ever deviates from that sentiment. I mean, we know a lot of people don't like or care for Geno, so to them, they'd rather see him get in as a Mii Costume because then they can write him off their mental checklists and switch focuses to another potential SquareEnix character they actually want, like Sora or 2B.

I wouldn't consider Rex to be terribly likely either. I know Min Min broke the spirit rule, and I know Rex deserves it, but I don't think we're going to see the Mii Costume rule broken anytime soon. A spirit is just a .png in the game files, but I think Sakurai thinks that Mii Costumes are the next best thing to getting into the game as a playable fighter.
But that's the thing, though. The Rex Mii Costume was explicitly stated to have been made as a conselation prize for not being able to get him in the base roster. And due to being given out as a preorder bonus, it would've had to of been made some time between the base roster being finalized and before it's eventual reveal, in other words long before they decided on Fighters Pass Vol. 2. So given how the last two Challenger Packs have gone, if Nintendo was willing to add-in characters from Warm Brooch: Triple Tents and Happy Slaps long after their releases, what makes you think they won't or outright can't do it for Ara Ara Simulator 2018?

Also, saying that a character can't get in because they were included as a Mii Costume in the base game is only one stepped removed from saying that a character can't get in because they were included as a Spirit in the base game. If it didn't matter to Sakurai or Nintendo with Min Min, so what makes you think it'll matter to them with Rex?

*INSERT KRONK MEME IMAGE HERE*
 
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YsDisciple

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,242
I was just about to bring that Super Mario 35th anniversary Twitter news up.

Feels like when the stage crew's still prepping the set before the performance right about now.
 

MisterMike

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,252
I was just about to bring that Super Mario 35th anniversary Twitter news up.

Feels like when the stage crew's still prepping the set before the performance right about now.
"And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: THE LIVE PERFORMANCE!"
ee5.png

:ultpacman:
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
On the one hand, someone could have purchased a domain name, made an email on it, registered for a twitter account, and reported to some video game news site that there's a mysterious new twitter, but waited four months after registering it so as not to seem suspicious.

But I'll say that my go-to for burner email accounts doesn't have a two-part domain name option (such as .co.jp) and it's kind of hard to find a place to purchase those. And it's important to remember that the Twitter account doesn't become active until you've checked your email, so the email has to have been accessible at one point.

Real or not, I don't think it means much. We know for a fact it's Mario's 35th Anniversary this year and we know almost for a fact we're getting some ports. It's not like Nintendo makes a Twitter account for every Smash newcomer and we stumbled upon Geno's Twitter.
 

GalacticPetey

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Messages
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I mean, to be fair, they didn't really earn it. Blatent shill character nobody asked for from a game from an over represented franchise that ended up performing poorly. At least Byleth had a good game behind them, Corrin has no business being here if this is supposed to be a hall of fame.
See this has always been silly to me. Shouldn't it matter more if the character is fun to play? Sakurai even said as much. Viewing Smash as a "hall of fame" first and foremost is superficial. Okay sure it's a hall of fame but what does that really mean aside from an impressive looking character select screen. To quote Reggie, if it's not fun then why bother. Is Corrin from the greatest game in the world? No, but they're pretty fun to play as so I'm glad they're in. I've mained a Fire Emblem character in most Smash games despite my experience with the series consisting only of a few chapters of Awakening and talking to my friend who considers it his favorite video game series. They have fun movesets so I'm glad they're in. I would honestly be fine with more Marth clones because I enjoy playing as them that much.

There's a joke that some people don't actually like playing Smash they just like to boot up the game and just stare at the character select screen. I'm not accusing you of this or anything but when all of speculation seems to revolve around who's worthy to be in some superficial hall of fame, I roll my eyes. It's also ironic given that this is a support thread for an obscure one-off character. And like I get the appeal. It's cool to see so many iconic characters clashing together but when stuff like that starts to out prioritize the actual gameplay, that's where you lose me. Smash wouldn't be the phenomenon it was today if the game wasn't fun to play first and foremost. ARMS wasn't super well received when it came out and now Min Min is a fun and unique fighter. If I could eliminate the terms "deserve" and "shill" from all of speculation I would, because they kill the conversation. They're just as dumb as "too big" and "too many anime or sword characters".
 

Heoj

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
545
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PapaGenos is just being realistic. Nothing wrong with that. You dont have to think "Geno will 100% be in" to be a Geno fan and a Geno supporter.

Also you guys put way to much weight in Fatmans theories. There are so many video game characters out there and I always read the same characters here. The same characters Fatman is hearing from his "sources".

Example: Imo Rex & Pyra are very likely. Many people think this too. But here? I dont see people talk about them because Fatman is not talking much about them.

Rex is just an example. There are tons of other characters. Personally I think Geno will be FP9 or FP10. But the possibility of a Mii costume is also very likely. It would be a very stupid move of Nintendo/Sakurai to wait that long for heavy requested character and then just reveal him as a Mii costume, but that would not be the first time they doing something that stupid...

I usually only read here. If you dont want to have people here that are realistic or even a bit pessimistic, then say it and I will go away.
You really cant look at fatmans predictions and use that to summarise what everyone here thinks is, 100% going to happening, fatmans predictions and theories are cool for interesting discussions but at least for me i disagree with a lot of it. I don't see lloyd, dixie or master chief being playable but thats jsut my opinion, and there are a lot of other characters that i think have a solid/really good shot, but i just choose not to talk about them here
 

MattX20

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
6,325
Okay, if Nintendo does announce the Direct, it'll happen at the earliest today, the latest on Friday
 

AceAttorney9000

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
1,881
So not only do we find out there's a private twitter account supposedly made for celebrating Mario's 35th anniversary, we also now know it's got a very similar email to the Japanese Smash and Splatoon twitter accounts... and we ended up finding all this out before the potential announcement of an oft-rumored Direct coming next week...
 
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Fatmanonice

Banned via Warnings
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Fatmanonice
Just to sort of explain my train of thought yesterday as to why Nintendo could potentially jump the shark in the best of ways.

-As you all know, I've had at least 6 predictions since January: Waluigi, Geno, Crash, Lloyd, Dante, and Master Chief. Any of these characters would be fantastic E3 reveals. Lloyd is the one I doubt the most because it's pretty obvious that Namco has its own plans for Tales 25th and if Lloyd were to be revealed, it would probably be closer to the actual anniversary in December. We're still left with 5 characters and this kind of creates a conundrum because no way in anyone's wildest dreams would Nintendo do 5 DLC characters in one presentation.

-Like I've said in the past, E3 has averaged at least 3 reveals and last year was actually an outlier. I've also noted that Nintendo never does Smash the same way twice at E3. This being said, we're looking at less than two or more two reveals. One is not likely because there's never been a character big enough to carry an entire E3 Presentation. If Megaman and Pac-Man couldn't, there's no way in hell anyone else could. As highlighted, Smash reveals are usually multiple big fan favorites and then a third party icon. With my predictions, everyone falls into one or more of those categories. It's a real pickle.

-We've talked about the "ideal" DLC release calendar and it looks a little something like this: February - April - June/July - September - November - December. Every character in DLC history has either been announced or released in or very close to these months. We already know someone is releasing in September so Sakurai seems to have already straightened things out. If 7 is September, 8 is likely November, and so on and so forth. Going under this basic assumption, Season 2 will have 11 announced or even released by next April, two months ahead of an E3 2021 announcement. Could this be the last year Smash is prominent at E3? Potentially...

-Like I've talked about in the past, E3 is where Kings are crowned and minds are blown. Historically E3 is where Nintendo unloads the big fan favorites and third party icons. As I said, everybody in my predictions falls into this and it's very obvious that characters like Crash and Master Chief are giants in the gaming industry. Saving either for E3 would make sense, especially since both have been console icons, at least at one point. Would they do both? It's hard to wrap your head around but... Potentially? Cloud was saved until later for Smash 4 but Smash at E3 2015 was already pretty stacked and there's potential evidence that Square wanted Cloud announced and released closer to the first gameplay trailer of the FF VII Remake. It's interesting to say the least because both characters definitely qualify as the potential show stealer but would Nintendo go full Mad Lad and do both?

-Finally, as Pinshadow pointed out yesterday, Smash DLC doesn't really end strong and the BIG reveals are typically in the beginning and middle. Mewtwo, Ryu, and Cloud were definitely the BIG reveals of Smash 4 DLC and the Fighter's Pass was Joker and Banjo. It's really no wonder people were salty with Bayonetta and Byleth. Brawl's last base roster reveal was Olimar, last unlockables were Wolf and Toon Link. Smash 4's last base roster reveal was basically Shulk, with Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt being unlockables. As we all remember, Ultimate's last base roster reveals were Ken and Incineroar. This said, the last picks are usually niche or controversial and that doesn't really fit Crash or Master Chief. This suggests that if they were coming they would be more in the middle but, again, is Nintendo willing to go that balls out in a public elevator? I don't know but time will tell.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Just to sort of explain my train of thought yesterday as to why Nintendo could potentially jump the shark in the best of ways.

-As you all know, I've had at least 6 predictions since January: Waluigi, Geno, Crash, Lloyd, Dante, and Master Chief. Any of these characters would be fantastic E3 reveals. Lloyd is the one I doubt the most because it's pretty obvious that Namco has its own plans for Tales 25th and if Lloyd were to be revealed, it would probably be closer to the actual anniversary in December. We're still left with 5 characters and this kind of creates a conundrum because no way in anyone's wildest dreams would Nintendo do 5 DLC characters in one presentation.

-Like I've said in the past, E3 has averaged at least 3 reveals and last year was actually an outlier. I've also noted that Nintendo never does Smash the same way twice at E3. This being said, we're looking at less than two or more two reveals. One is not likely because there's never been a character big enough to carry an entire E3 Presentation. If Megaman and Pac-Man couldn't, there's no way in hell anyone else could. As highlighted, Smash reveals are usually multiple big fan favorites and then a third party icon. With my predictions, everyone falls into one or more of those categories. It's a real pickle.

-We've talked about the "ideal" DLC release calendar and it looks a little something like this: February - April - June/July - September - November - December. Every character in DLC history has either been announced or released in or very close to these months. We already know someone is releasing in September so Sakurai seems to have already straightened things out. If 7 is September, 8 is likely November, and so on and so forth. Going under this basic assumption, Season 2 will have 11 announced or even released by next April, two months ahead of an E3 2021 announcement. Could this be the last year Smash is prominent at E3? Potentially...

-Like I've talked about in the past, E3 is where Kings are crowned and minds are blown. Historically E3 is where Nintendo unloads the big fan favorites and third party icons. As I said, everybody in my predictions falls into this and it's very obvious that characters like Crash and Master Chief are giants in the gaming industry. Saving either for E3 would make sense, especially since both have been console icons, at least at one point. Would they do both? It's hard to wrap your head around but... Potentially? Cloud was saved until later for Smash 4 but Smash at E3 2015 was already pretty stacked and there's potential evidence that Square wanted Cloud announced and released closer to the first gameplay trailer of the FF VII Remake. It's interesting to say the least because both characters definitely qualify as the potential show stealer but would Nintendo go full Mad Lad and do both?

-Finally, as Pinshadow pointed out yesterday, Smash DLC doesn't really end strong and the BIG reveals are typically in the beginning and middle. Mewtwo, Ryu, and Cloud were definitely the BIG reveals of Smash 4 DLC and the Fighter's Pass was Joker and Banjo. It's really no wonder people were salty with Bayonetta and Byleth. Brawl's last base roster reveal was Olimar, last unlockables were Wolf and Toon Link. Smash 4's last base roster reveal was basically Shulk, with Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt being unlockables. As we all remember, Ultimate's last base roster reveals were Ken and Incineroar. This said, the last picks are usually niche or controversial and that doesn't really fit Crash or Master Chief. This suggests that if they were coming they would be more in the middle but, again, is Nintendo willing to go that balls out in a public elevator? I don't know but time will tell.
Out of your predictions, which one of those is the “disappointing” last reveal? Because all of them seem pretty mind-blowing. Secondly, with Joker’s and Eleven’s amiibo release dates confirmed, does this affect your theory?
 

Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336

Huh. This happened, apparently.

Lol
C'mon, Walmart, don't screw with us like that. If anyone is going to throw around a confirmation, you better be legit and you better have some solid evidence. Otherwise you just end up looking like Target. Or...*gasp*...Kmart.
 
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