Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

Happy birthday! Hopefully, it will be a good one for you!

Thank you! It sucks I have to go to work today lol! I will enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Spatulo]

Today's my birthday guys.

Happy birthday!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Happy birthday!

Thank you very much.

Edit: Well guys, I have to go to work tonight so I'm going to get me some sleep. I might come back here later if I don't oversleep.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Steve isn't an Indie character, he and Minecraft are owned by Microsoft, because Mojang (the creators of Minecraft) were bought out by Microsoft back in 2014. Mojang are a subsidiary of Xbox Game Studios. That detail is pretty important to know. Suda51 also said Travis wasn't going to be in Smash Bros. "this time", back in June 2019, when talking about No More Heroes III [source]. Since the announcement of post-Fighters Pass fighter DLC was revealed in September 2019, it would mean that the fighters list would've been finalised long before that. Sakurai has likely been working on two post-pass characters alongside fighter 5, and Suda51 wouldn't be allowed to say yes or no as he'd technically be breaking NDA.

Oh, I know about these things but my contacts are still hanging onto those two for whatever reason. Suda himself saying Travis wasn't joining Smash not once but twice in a year feels like death to me. I can't see either Steve or Travis happening and this is probably one of the few things I strongly disagree with my contacts on.

 

[Deleted member]

Totally agree but Fatman is saying her chance is pretty toast for now. Also anyone know what characters have been requested since Brawl and Melee aside Geno?

Well, as far as characters requested after Melee goes, I think Dedede, Meta Knight and Wario really fit the bill...

I actually can't speak much for what "since Melee" means, I wasn't a very active Smash speculator during Melee. I wanted Geno because he's awesome and Peach and Bowser were playable and it felt wrong for Geno not to be playable too (I did and still do throw Mallow under the bus, sorry). I wasn't really active about my wishes for the game until the buildup to Brawl, so I clearly remember people from that time period. Does that count as "since Melee" or "since Brawl"?

During the Brawl hype train I remember names like Ridley, Banjo, Hector, Isaac, Lloyd, Geno, Masked Man (it's crazy to think that back then, I wasn't the only one who wanted him)... Fire Emblem characters were popular choices because we still foolishly believed we'd get people who aren't Marth clones. I don't remember many requests for Pokemon, funny enough. An Animal Crossing character like Tom Nook or Resetti were surprisingly big, Duck Hunt Dog was often at least joked about, and there was Dixie Kong (whose Mii hat is missing, so there is that...). Man, this makes me want to see if I can dig up old dream rosters of mine, because I remember them being well received at the time. I had picks on there the likes of which would get me booed off of places like /v/ or gameFAQs nowadays, but back then they were pretty popular picks, even with those folks.

You know, It feels like back then, there wasn't as much militant anti-character posting as there is now - people liked what they liked and their picks were, at worst, unrealistic. I guess after the cut characters in Brawl and Smash 4 adding a lot of absolute nobodies (yeah, yeah, say what you will about how Rosalina and Mii fighters are icons, virtually no fan lists had most of the fighters added in 4), things started to feel more like an arms race as we grew up and realized the scope of the game wasn't going to allow for a Mugen style roster of just whoever we could dream up. In the age of DLC that could theoretically last for as long as it's making Nintendo money, I don't really see why we can't go back to that. It was a lot of fun.

EDIT: I guess I should add in, back then it felt like third parties were total pipe dreams. Snake was in because Kojima and Sakurai are buddies - that was the logic there. Even after they dropped Sonic on us, people still weren't loading their lists down with third party characters. I think the only notable exception to this is Simon and obviously Lloyd.

 

[Datboigeno]

Today's my birthday guys.

Today you were birthed. And that makes Geno happy. Look at how happy that makes Geno.

 

[Fatmanonice]

On examples for "wanted since Melee", consider the following poll that Nintendo ran way back in 1999:

https://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-this-might-be-interesting-to-look-at-melee-1999-poll.81891/

 

[DanganZilla5]

Oh, I know about these things but my contacts are still hanging onto those two for whatever reason. Suda himself saying Travis wasn't joining Smash not once but twice in a year feels like death to me. I can't see either Steve or Travis happening and this is probably one of the few things I strongly disagree with my contacts on.

I'm curious. Why don't you think Steve is happening? I can see him not happening for FP5 because Banjo stole the Microsoft spot, but I see him as a possibility for future DLC. There is no rule against Microsoft getting another character and Minecraft is huge! The best selling game of all time and the thing you see merchandise for everywhere. As for Steve being leak bait, I don't see how that hurts his chances.

Again, I enjoy your SPECULATION and I appreciate you sharing all this info.

 

[Spatulo]

On examples for "wanted since Melee", consider the following poll that Nintendo ran way back in 1999:

https://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-this-might-be-interesting-to-look-at-melee-1999-poll.81891/

James Bond confirmed.

Also wow, I’m surprised Crash actually beat Sonic. Though it was in ‘99, those were peak Bamdicoot years

 

[Deleted member]

On examples for "wanted since Melee", consider the following poll that Nintendo ran way back in 1999:

https://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-this-might-be-interesting-to-look-at-melee-1999-poll.81891/

What a ****ing history lesson...

Well, Goomba was more popular than Geno and we got an equally ridiculous choice in Piranha Plant, so Geno's next up, right?

 

[DanganZilla5]

It would be interesting to see what Smash would look like if James Bond was actually included. Imagine Smash Ultimate with all the same returning characters......then there is Bond. I'm going through all the Bond films right now so I would unironically want him, though that would open a giant can of worms.

Back on-topic, the list is certainly interesting. Goomba was highly requested? I swear if we get Goomba instead of Geno and Waluigi I'm going to laugh my a** off.

 

[Deleted member]

There really weren’t that many choices back then were there. How far we’ve come.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Oh, I know about these things but my contacts are still hanging onto those two for whatever reason. Suda himself saying Travis wasn't joining Smash not once but twice in a year feels like death to me. I can't see either Steve or Travis happening and this is probably one of the few things I strongly disagree with my contacts on.

I mean, Grant Kirkhope already kind of proved that you can say "No" and still be fine under NDA. I don't see why Travis is out of the running at this point even if Suda did say he wasn't happening at some point. Not only can things have changed a lot since E3, but Suda could have just been outright lying, since, again, disconfirmations don't actually break NDA.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, Grant Kirkhope already kind of proved that you can say "No" and still be fine under NDA. I don't see why Travis is out of the running at this point even if Suda did say he wasn't happening at some point. Not only can things have changed a lot since E3, but Suda could have just been outright lying, since, again, disconfirmations don't actually break NDA.

Did Grant ever say "no" outright? To my recollection he only ever used dismissive language like "don't count on it" rather than outright negatives. I think there's an argument to be had to assume an NDA could include barring a creator from saying "no" as a lie.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Did Grant ever say "no" outright? To my recollection he only ever used dismissive language like "don't count on it" rather than outright negatives. I think there's an argument to be had to assume an NDA could include barring a creator from saying "no" as a lie.

I mean, practically speaking, "When pigs fly" (Grant's exact language), is just a more colorful way to say no. NDAs are fairly limited to you can't reveal actual information about the subject matter in question, but lying about the reality of it (as in saying something isn't happening when it is) isn't an issue within NDAs. NDAs are designed to protect real information from getting out. If you're not revealing any of that information, there's no problem with the NDA.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I personally feel like there's a big difference between being requested since Brawl, and being requested for Brawl. I feel like Geno and Isaac are the only two that were top requests both then and now, someone like Waluigi is super popular now, but was more of a mid-level request back then, where as someone like Krystal was a top request back then, but has fallen off hard since. Then you have the likes of Skull Kid, Lyn, Lloyd and Bomberman who were middle of the road requests both then and now, but I find it difficult to put them in the same bracket as Geno and Isaac despite their consistency. There are also those that had a bit of popularity during the Brawl days, but has barely ever been talked about since, like Deoxys, Zero and Micaiah (granted she does have one very dedicated fan on this site).

I don't personally know about Pre-Melee, but from the people I've talked with who were there, it sounds like it depended a lot on where you did your speculation. The internet was very different back then, there wasn't as much overlap between sites as we see today (in large part thanks to social media), and speculation was both spread across many different sites, as well as not being anywhere nearly as big as it would go on to be in the Brawl days. The barrier between the west and Japan was also much, much bigger, so I'm not sure people really know much about who was popular over there, the best we have is that one poll, which obviously then doesn't reflect who was the most popular over here. From what I've heard Toad is probably the biggest request from back then that still isn't in the game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sonic: Check

Snake: Check

Mega Man: Check

Pac-Man: Check

King Dedede: Check

Wario: Check

Diddy Kong: Check

Ridley: Check

K. Rool: Check

Banjo & Kazooie: Check

Isaac: Assist Trophy

Bomberman: Assist Trophy

Krystal: Assist Trophy

Waluigi: Assist Trophy

Rayman: Spirit

Tails: Spirit and Mii costume

Toad: Spirit and part of Peach's moveset

Lloyd Irving: Status unknown Mii costume MIA

Crash Bandicoot: Status unknown

Crono: Status unknown

There is more, but I can't think who else off the top of my head.

You forgot Dixie.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Man, if James Bond joined Smash back in Melee, the “video game characters only” rule would be SIGNIFICANTLY different or outright non-existent today, and we could have gotten other outlandish characters. Kind of crazy to think about.

Also Happy Birthday R RetrogamerMax ! Be sure to eat lots of cake today!

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, happy birthday R RetrogamerMax !

 

[Franco Geno]

Most of my contacts believe Cacomallow is real. One doesn't.

Good morning everyo-....i just woke up to this and i'm happy (welcome back Fatman btw)

 

[Ura]

Fatmanonice What would you say are the chances of a Nintendo character or a Spirit/AT character as Fighter 5? Vergeben hasn't deconfirmed either yet so i'm wondering what the confidence in them are for Fighter 5. Or even 6/7 as well.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I mean, Grant Kirkhope already kind of proved that you can say "No" and still be fine under NDA. I don't see why Travis is out of the running at this point even if Suda did say he wasn't happening at some point. Not only can things have changed a lot since E3, but Suda could have just been outright lying, since, again, disconfirmations don't actually break NDA.

To be fair, Grant Kirkhope didn't flat out say no banjo. Telling people not to get their hopes up is a very clever non-answer if you use it right. It still implies a possibility.

Edit: nevermind, someone brought that up already

 

[Mastadoom88]

Welcome back Fatman! Thank you for sharing those thoughts and I will say your presence here just make this place feel more whole. I'm grateful for any drop of water to help satiate the drought.

Also Happy Birthday to R RetrogamerMax ! Heres to your happiness :3

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice What would you say are the chances of a Nintendo character or a Spirit/AT character as Fighter 5? Vergeben hasn't deconfirmed either yet so i'm wondering what the confidence in them are for Fighter 5. Or even 6/7 as well.

All my contacts agree on 5 being a third party Western character. Three agree on the company, two agree on the character, and one source thinks it's a totally different Western company. I hard disagree with the last one for a lot of reasons, the biggest being I don't think "double dipping" company wise was ever planned for the Fighter's Pass. This is why I said "GG" for Geno being 5 as far back as August. No offense to that contact but I don't believe their theory for 5.

As for 6 (possibly 7), let's just say that the feeling in the air is similar to how Banjo was. Banjo was a secret too good to keep. Yes, I knew about Banjo in April but it eventually got to the point that everyone was practically screaming it. Game channels were being hella coy, people were dropping the most unsubtle hints ever, insiders were yeeting themselves to their respective bunkers before big news drops, and even retailers couldn't STFU. It was great watching this happen and being like:

That said, it's happening again (and also makes me think sooner than later) and why I've been saying for almost two months that the next Direct is going to destroy us in the best of ways if even a fraction of the rumors are true.

 

[Ura]

All my contacts agree on 5 being a third party Western character. Three agree on the company, two agree on the character, and one source thinks it's a totally different Western company. I hard disagree with the last one for a lot of reasons, the biggest being I don't think "double dipping" company wise was ever planned for the Fighter's Pass. This is why I said "GG" for Geno being 5 as far back as August. No offense to that contact but I don't believe their theory for 5.

As for 6 (possibly 7), let's just say that the feeling in the air is similar to how Banjo was. Banjo was a secret too good to keep. Yes, I knew about Banjo in April but it eventually got to the point that everyone was practically screaming it. Game channels were being hella coy, people were dropping the most unsubtle hints ever, insiders were yeeting themselves to their respective bunkers before big news drops, and even retailers couldn't STFU. It was great watching this happen and being like:

View attachment 254723

That said, it's happening again (and also makes me think sooner than later) and why I've been saying for almost two months that the next Direct is going to destroy us in the best of ways if even a fraction of the rumors are true.

Alright, thanks for the response. We'll see soon enough what goes down in the next Direct.

 

[Deleted member]

All my contacts agree on 5 being a third party Western character. Three agree on the company, two agree on the character, and one source thinks it's a totally different Western company. I hard disagree with the last one for a lot of reasons, the biggest being I don't think "double dipping" company wise was ever planned for the Fighter's Pass.

This reeks of Master Chief.

I think the Fighter's Pass has been all about surprises and a "double dip" is a surprise I could see. Then again, so is "spirit promotion" or something equally outlandish. It feels like as always, the only rule is no rules.

Question just to be sure I'm in the right alley of speculation land - Your three contacts that agree on the company, does that still stand by a specific fandom related to Smash being disappointed with the #5 reveal?

 

[Spatulo]

All my contacts agree on 5 being a third party Western character. Three agree on the company, two agree on the character, and one source thinks it's a totally different Western company. I hard disagree with the last one for a lot of reasons, the biggest being I don't think "double dipping" company wise was ever planned for the Fighter's Pass. This is why I said "GG" for Geno being 5 as far back as August. No offense to that contact but I don't believe their theory for 5.

So, shot in the dark, I’m guessing that three are saying Bethesda, two are saying Dovahkiin, and the other guy is saying Master Chief.

 

[Franco Geno]

Today's my birthday guys.

Happy birthday! ^^ have a great day dude

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

They need to announce this direct already

 

[Fatmanonice]

This reeks of Master Chief.

I think the Fighter's Pass has been all about surprises and a "double dip" is a surprise I could see. Then again, so is "spirit promotion" or something equally outlandish. It feels like as always, the only rule is no rules.

Question just to be sure I'm in the right alley of speculation land - Your three contacts that agree on the company, does that still stand by a specific fandom related to Smash being disappointed with the #5 reveal?

Yes, unfortunately. On the topic of "no rules", I feel like that's how they're wanting to start off Season 2. They're wanting to kick off 2020 and a new decade in the best of ways not only for Smash but just Nintendo in general.

 

[Megadoomer]

This reeks of Master Chief.

I think the Fighter's Pass has been all about surprises and a "double dip" is a surprise I could see. Then again, so is "spirit promotion" or something equally outlandish. It feels like as always, the only rule is no rules.

Question just to be sure I'm in the right alley of speculation land - Your three contacts that agree on the company, does that still stand by a specific fandom related to Smash being disappointed with the #5 reveal?

So, shot in the dark, I’m guessing that three are saying Bethesda, two are saying Dovahkiin, and the other guy is saying Master Chief.

Based on that quote, that's what I'd assume as well, though only time will tell how accurate it is. (I'm hoping that, if we get a Bethesda character, it's Doomguy) Here's hoping that Geno's the first post-Fighters-Pass character - that would make him the seventh DLC character for Smash Ultimate, if we count Piranha Plant, which seems like a fitting placement for him.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, unfortunately. On the topic of "no rules", I feel like that's how they're wanting to start off Season 2. They're wanting to kick off 2020 and a new decade in the best of ways not only for Smash but just Nintendo in general.

Thanks, boss. My opinion that Doom Guy is dead is strengthened. I'm itching to see if any of your new contacts are holding water when this next direct comes out, it feels like it's been one setback after the other with the Indie direct and the VGAs both producing none of the results they sort of hinted to you.

Hope these guys aren't just nobodies stringing you along for the laughs. I also hope that when the direct comes, you'll be able to tell us "so here's all the stuff they got right".

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Shoot, if geno's the seventh fighter, they better use "geno awakens" in his reveal trailer

 

[Franco Geno]

Yes, unfortunately. On the topic of "no rules", I feel like that's how they're wanting to start off Season 2. They're wanting to kick off 2020 and a new decade in the best of ways not only for Smash but just Nintendo in general.

Well then if that's the case

 

[Fatmanonice]

Thanks, boss. My opinion that Doom Guy is dead is strengthened. I'm itching to see if any of your new contacts are holding water when this next direct comes out, it feels like it's been one setback after the other with the Indie direct and the VGAs both producing none of the results they sort of hinted to you.

Hope these guys aren't just nobodies stringing you along for the laughs. I also hope that when the direct comes, you'll be able to tell us "so here's all the stuff they got right".

One of the contacts kinda sucks at timing (no offense). For example, he got a ton of stuff right around E3 but was wrong about the timing, most famously Hero being revealed at the Smash tournament instead of the E3 Direct. Honestly, it's easily forgivable given the stuff he's gotten right, making me think he has tape recorders in Sakurai's refrigerator or something. This is also who the crazy Christmas 6 pack rumor came from, the dude who has bullseyed Mii costumes somehow, again, why I'm sharing it and why he's probably "heh heh hehing" in a bunker right now somewhere.

 

[Bendario]

Today's my birthday guys.

Holy crap, mine too! Happy birthday!

 

[DanganZilla5]

So Fighter 5 might just be a third party western character (Again, this is speculation and there's always a chance the sources are wrong, don't get too excited). I'm thinking that, with Microsoft already having a character, the top 3 companies to get a rep for FP5 are Ubisoft, Bethesda, and Activision/Blizzard. These companies have been working closely with Nintendo for a couple years now and seem like the prime candidates when it comes to western companies.

In that case, I feel that the top candidates are Ezio, Doom Slayer, Dovahkiin, Crash Bandicoot, and a Diablo rep. Rayman would not be FP5 because he would not already have a spirit in base game if he was FP5. And Blizzard straight up said in september that Nintendo can have any Overwatch character, which is a hard deconfirm. Out of the 5 characters, Bethesda's characters certainly seem the most likely. Ezio could happen, but I have a gut feeling he is not FP5. Crash Bandicoot has seemingly been deconfirmed by some leakers, though he still has a lot of merit. And a Diablo rep is possible, but like Ezio, doesn't fit the theme of the pass with requested/highly impactful characters.

Really, I'm just repeating what others have said by now, in that FP5 is probably a bethesda character, especially since Fatman said most of his sources believe that cacomallow is real. I'm just afraid, because while I really like Dovahkiin, I want Doom Slayer more. But Skyrim is more popular in Japan and Fatman's comments about a certain group of fans being upset with FP5 makes me believe Dovahkiin might be the character. He would still line up with cacomallow and that might mean we will get a Doom Slayer Mii costume, which scares me.

At the very least, this is still looking really good for Geno. Either way, if we get that caco hat, Geno is most likely a lock.

 

[Fatmanonice]

R RetrogamerMax Happy Birthday by the way.

 

[Deleted member]

One of the contacts kinda sucks at timing (no offense). For example, he got a ton of stuff right around E3 but was wrong about the timing, most famously Hero being revealed at the Smash tournament instead of the E3 Direct. Honestly, it's easily forgivable given the stuff he's gotten right, making me think he has tape recorders in Sakurai's refrigerator or something. This is also who the crazy Christmas 6 pack rumor came from, the dude who has bullseyed Mii costumes somehow, again, why I'm sharing it and why he's probably "heh heh hehing" in a bunker right now somewhere.

Timing is the kind of thing I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt on. I mean, who didn't expect a character reveal at the pre-E3 invitational? I imagine if I had this kind of information, I'd assume it to be around the corner, too. At this point I think Nintendo purposefully doesn't do reveals when we'd expect them just to have the last laugh.

At the very least, this is still looking really good for Geno. Either way, if we get that caco hat, Geno is most likely a lock.

I want to say that with 100% confidence but I could totally see Crono being another Square rep and coming with Super Mario RPG hats just as a "here's fellow SNES RPG legend characters" type of deal. It's such a long shot but even when I see that Cacodemon hat for real I'm going to be nervous until our boy is on screen in non-costume glory.

 

[Deity Madason]

One of the contacts kinda sucks at timing (no offense). For example, he got a ton of stuff right around E3 but was wrong about the timing, most famously Hero being revealed at the Smash tournament instead of the E3 Direct. Honestly, it's easily forgivable given the stuff he's gotten right, making me think he has tape recorders in Sakurai's refrigerator or something. This is also who the crazy Christmas 6 pack rumor came from, the dude who has bullseyed Mii costumes somehow, again, why I'm sharing it and why he's probably "heh heh hehing" in a bunker right now somewhere.

Didn't the awards mods prohibit this kinda talk in this thread. This isn't even Geno related.