Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[smash puffle]

Really off-topic, but if you guys like gaming merchandise and Mario RPG, set aside 5 minutes to watch this:

If you want a more complete overview of the entire plush set:

 

[Teeb147]

I'm sure you mean your statements in good faith so I'll drop it as well. It's not like I disagree that it's pulling at straws. I just wanted to state the thought process was worth entertaining.

I think so too. I was probably taken a bit by how people were talking about it, cuz it is entertaining in a way, with some interesting connections, if I look at it outside of what people think about it (or my impression of what people think about it)

And I like beams, btw, so I do hope Geno would get one :D

 

[EarlTamm]

Doesn't the gun that Geno uses for Geno Beam a telescoping barrel that is part of his arm? I thought that was Geno's entire thing. All his weapons are built into his arms and body. The arms he equips are the guns, essentially. That's why I am confused about all this stuff about Geno holding an actual gun in his hand when that seems so out of character for him when his limbs are the weapons.

Well, it was said that Sakurai got that figure for the gun specifically, not what it was attached to. He just wanted the gun as an example. And I do think this figure does have something to do with Geno, but I can't explain it as well as the first person who really brought it up. We should really quote that post if anyone want's a full explanation, it is excellently worded.

 

[Dan]

What is this talk of the figure? He essentially got a figure to use the gun as a point of reference?

Doesn't the gun that Geno uses for Geno Beam a telescoping barrel that is part of his arm? I thought that was Geno's entire thing. All his weapons are built into his arms and body. The arms he equips are the guns, essentially. That's why I am confused about all this stuff about Geno holding an actual gun in his hand when that seems so out of character for him when his limbs are the weapons.

I think he can turn into a canon as well.

It's more of the fact that he's just "there".

Well that's the video I saw, but within that he talks about him talking about Mallow in another video.

If you want a more complete overview of the entire plush set:

PatMac's videos are so in-depth it's kind of nauseating.

 

[Thani]

I think he can turn into a canon as well.

Yeah, being a magical doll and such. I just don't understand why Sakurai would need to model a gun for Geno. It's been awhile, but I thought Geno always just unscrewed his wrist when using Geno Beam and held it in his other hand, since you always view him from behind, and when he sticks his arm out, the barrel just extends right on out where his hand used to be. That doesn't sound like something that would require a bunch of references to model.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, being a magical doll and such. I just don't understand why Sakurai would need to model a gun for Geno. It's been awhile, but I thought Geno always just unscrewed his wrist when using Geno Beam and held it in his other hand, since you always view him from behind, and when he sticks his arm out, the barrel just extends right on out where his hand used to be. That doesn't sound like something that would require a bunch of references to model.

You are correct.

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Yeah, being a magical doll and such. I just don't understand why Sakurai would need to model a gun for Geno. It's been awhile, but I thought Geno always just unscrewed his wrist when using Geno Beam and held it in his other hand, since you always view him from behind, and when he sticks his arm out, the cannon just extends right on out where his hand used to be. That doesn't sound like something that would require a bunch of references to model.

Well the idea is he doesn't have an actual render of the cannon itself compared to the other weapons. Seeing as Sakurai's has put so much attention to detail in designing the other characters, I can see why he'd want something comparable to reference even if it isn't entirely necessary

 

[EarlTamm]

Can someone help me find that quote that first brought the idea that the model possibly being for Geno in question? I have been searching the pages and can't find it.

 

[Teeb147]

Can someone help me find that quote that first brought the idea that the model possibly being for Geno in question? I have been searching the pages and can't find it.

Is it this one?

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8sodaw/holy_f_i_know_what_the_figure_was_for_that/

 

[TBone06]

Can someone help me find that quote that first brought the idea that the model possibly being for Geno in question? I have been searching the pages and can't find it.

Joestronger's post on this board is on page 51. It's pretty extensive. He makes a lot of great cases for it.

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Nevermind, was wrong.

 

[EarlTamm]

Nope. It's this post. Finally found it.

Hey all. I've been stalking these forums for a while, but I've only now decided to make an account to show my support for Geno in Smash, and to share a bit of speculation on my part, some bad, but some good.
After yesterday's Smash Direct, I felt incredibly uneasy about Geno's chances in Ultimate after seeing the number of tracks for Final Fantasy: a measly two. It left a sinking feeling in my gut, because if even Konami could be generous enough to let 3 fighters (and 1 assist trophy) in so far, along with 34 music tracks from Castlevania, the apparent stinginess of Squeenix with just Final Fantasy made my heart sink a bit.

However, I also recently learned of a silver lining after reading around a bit more today: the mecha figure that Sakurai bought in 2016.

In an interview with Denfaminicogamer in December of 2016, Sakurai stated that he had recently bought a figure to use as reference for a new project he was working on, and this figure in question is actually of a very old school mech known as Vifam (not a Gundam, as some people incorrectly stated). However, what really set off the alarm in my head was when it stated he was only using the rifle as a reference. As soon as I found out about this, my inner mecha fanboy was fired up, and the gears started to turn, and it clicked.

Spoiler

This has to be for Geno, and here's my theory why. Vifam is a very old school mecha show, from 1983. It's rifle is a beam rifle, which is a standard thing in mecha, but Vifam's rifle is much simpler and rounder than one from a show like Gundam or Layzner from the same era. It's my theory that Sakurai is using Vifam's rifle as a reference for his team to base and model the laser for the Geno Beam attack, as the in game sprites themselves aren't very detailed, and there's no official art of the Beam in question; off the top of my head, there's only about 5 pieces of official art related to Geno that exist, and they're all of his weapons. Plus, the design of Vifam's rifle doesn't match up with the more machine gun looking arm cannon the Mii Gunner costume had.

While some people say that he might be referencing the rifle for a character like something from Custom Robo or Elma from Xenoblade X, neither of these make much sense to me. For one, both characters have official art to reference if they were being modeled, and two, both of them use different styles of weapons compared to something like the rounder, old school beam rifle from Vifam: Custom Robo uses blockier, boxier weapons, and Elma uses more angular, sharper dual pistols.

Spoiler

In addition, while the original Denfaminicogamer article didn't mention the project at all. I think there's pretty strong evidence it was related to Smash given the timing of the article. In a June 2018 interview article with Famitsu, Sakurai stated he put forth the first proposal for the game in December of 2015, and since the Denfaminicogamer interview was in December of 2016, I think it's within the realm of possibility that development of Smash Ultimate was already in full swing, and was probably still polishing out the roster.


Again, while yesterday's direct left me feeling a bit uneasy about Geno's chances due to the low FF Music, I feel a bit more confident in his inclusion as a playable character after I formulated my theory reading all of the above articles, and I'd figure it would be a good idea to share it with you all.

I'm gonna keep believing in him, with all my heart. Geno for Smash!

 

[Thani]

Well the idea is he doesn't have an actual render of the cannon itself compared to the other weapons. Seeing as Sakurai's has put so much attention to detail in designing the other characters, I can see why he'd want something comparable to reference even if it isn't entirely necessary

Ultimate certainly has introduced a lot more firearms into the game, from the Rage Blaster to the Sniper Rifle Staff. Perhaps the modelling thing is for how firearms in general are being wielded by the many different characters and the shape of their hands/claws/limbs?

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Ultimate certainly has introduced a lot more firearms into the game, from the Rage Blaster to the Sniper Rifle Staff. Perhaps the modelling thing is for how firearms in general are being wielded by the many different characters and the shape of their hands/claws/limbs?

This could also be true.

 

[Dan]

Well the idea is he doesn't have an actual render of the cannon itself compared to the other weapons. Seeing as Sakurai's has put so much attention to detail in designing the other characters, I can see why he'd want something comparable to reference even if it isn't entirely necessary

It's literally just a little brown stick that comes out of his arm; very similar to the Mii gunner, just retractable.

 

[EarlTamm]

Ultimate certainly has introduced a lot more firearms into the game, from the Rage Blaster to the Sniper Rifle Staff. Perhaps the modelling thing is for how firearms in general are being wielded by the many different characters and the shape of their hands/claws/limbs?

But none of them seem to really match the gun in question, being the Vifam beam rifle.

 

[Dan]

Sakurai actually found the missing Takara Geno plush and is using that for reference.

I stand in the middle on the Vifam thing; it's straw-pulling, but Sakurai cares about this stuff.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If you want a more complete overview of the entire plush set:

Can't help but think Zinith may have scoured the web for a Boshi doll.

Nope. It's this post. Finally found it.

If the gun is indeed for Geno (or Ray), this is going above and beyond in terms of dedication for the series, even for Sakurai.

Also, Vifam is a good show.

 

[Wambo]

TIL Square is better at designing Mario alts than Sakurai himself

Really though, I'm hoping Ultimate is the beginning of actual costume DLC, and not for the Mii Fighters.

 

[Dan]

If the gun is indeed for Geno (or Ray), this is going above and beyond in terms of dedication for the series, even for Sakurai.

Ray is awesome; it sucks he didn't survive the Brawl era in terms of popularity, but he fits into that "Boba Fett of Smash" thing with Geno and Skull Kid; just a cool looking, mysterious and colorful robot dude...could he echo Geno?

 

[EarlTamm]

If the gun is indeed for Geno (or Ray), this is going above and beyond in terms of dedication for the series, even for Sakurai.

To be fair, Sakurai could see this partially as an excuse to get the figure. The same user I quoted showed that Sakurai was a major old school mecha anime fan. Tons of figurines. So while he is using it for a model, he also got a new figure for his collection as a bonus.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

And to counter that arguement. If the gun was meant for a character like Elma who already has a mech, why would he need to buy a Vifam figure for the gun when he could just ask to use the models and artwork from the development team of Xenoblade Chronicles X?

What about Mach rider the robot has a couple of resemblance is uncanning on the body

And I’m sure the song doesn’t necessary deconfirm Mach rider

 

[EarlTamm]

What about Mach rider the robot has a couple of resemblance is uncanning on the body

And I’m sure the song doesn’t necessary deconfirm Mach rider

I don't think this is the case, as it is stated that he is specifically looking at the gun rather than the mech itself.

 

[Teeb147]

To be fair, Sakurai could see this partially as an excuse to get the figure. The same user I quoted showed that Sakurai was a major old school mecha anime fan. Tons of figurines. So while he is using it for a model, he also got a new figure for his collection as a bonus.

This wasn't mentioned, but I took a look at the actual interview, and right after talking about the rifle for reference, he talks about referencing strategy books, and 'capture books' , for material, and how illustrations may be material for his work. So taking that into account, it actually does fall right into the theory that he was also looking at the pictures of strategy books for this. He's the one that brought up the strategy book right after talking about it, so..

I'm a little more keen to it, in that it matches the theory brought up, having seen that.

 

[Dan]

What about Mach rider the robot has a couple of resemblance is uncanning on the body

And I’m sure the song doesn’t necessary deconfirm Mach rider

Mach Rider would be lit, and fits the natural lineage of G&W>ROB>Duck Hunt.

 

[EarlTamm]

This wasn't mentioned, but I took a look at the actual interview, and right after talking about the rifle for reference, he talks about referencing strategy books, and 'capture books' , for material, and how illustrations may be material for his work. So taking that into account, it actually does fall right into the theory that he was also looking at the pictures of strategy books for this. He's the one that brought up the strategy book right after talking about it, so..

I'm a little more keen to it, in that it matches the theory brought up, having seen that.

Yeah, that is a good point. Sakurai would try to find any reference he can, and if he couldn't find one, he would try to find something similar rather than pulling something out of nothing. And as stater earlier, the book's never showed what the beam rifle looked like in depth despite showing so many of Geno's weapons.

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah, that is a good point. Sakurai would try to find any reference he can, and if he couldn't find one, he would try to find something similar rather than pulling something out of nothing. And as stater earlier, the book's never showed what the beam rifle looked like in depth despite showing so many of Geno's weapons.

Mhm. That said though, he also goes into talking about reference for enemy characters. So it might also be for some enemies in a mode or something.
But he could also just be going on another tangent. Either way it's very interesting that he brought up the strategy guides right after that.

I wasnt going to stick around but it was interesting to look at. It's still pulling at straws, but there's a few more straws, lol.

 

[Dan]

I don't think this is the case, as it is stated that he is specifically looking at the gun rather than the mech itself.

Mach Rider has a gun like that.

Yeah, that is a good point. Sakurai would try to find any reference he can, and if he couldn't find one, he would try to find something similar rather than pulling something out of nothing. And as stater earlier, the book's never showed what the beam rifle looked like in depth despite showing so many of Geno's weapons.

You can see it in the game; it looks identical to the Mii gunner costume, so he's already decided what it should look like.

 

[link2702]

If geno does get in and is revealed in a direct next month I really hope nintendo holds it on a day I’m off work, otherwise all the customers and my co-workers are gonna be wondering what the heck is wrong with me as I’m jumping up and down cheering and screaming...

 

[EarlTamm]

You can see it in the game; it looks identical to the Mii gunner costume, so he's already decided what it should look like.

Not really. There was never that bulkier part that the Mii costume, at least from what I recall.

 

[Dan]

If geno does get in and is revealed in a direct next month I really hope nintendo holds it on a day I’m off work, otherwise all the customers and my co-workers are gonna be wondering what the heck is wrong with me as I’m jumping up and down cheering and screaming...

I don't see why they can't put them on weekends; the only thing I ever caught live was the Mewtwo DLC and something else I can't even remember. I could hide in the bathroom and watch it, but data and practicality.

 

[Dan]

Not really. There was never that bulkier part that the Mii costume, at least from what I recall.

Are we talking about the same thing? Geno Beam?

Okay, I can see what you're talking about, but it's kinda there, and that's clearly what they based the Mii Gunner costume off of.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

If geno does get in and is revealed in a direct next month I really hope nintendo holds it on a day I’m off work, otherwise all the customers and my co-workers are gonna be wondering what the heck is wrong with me as I’m jumping up and down cheering and screaming...

Haha this will be me too lol I went crazy at work for Ridley, Simon and K. Rool. People at work thought I was nuts

 

[Dragon lord]

Are we talking about the same thing? Geno Beam?

Okay, I can see what you're talking about, but it's kinda there, and that's clearly what they based the Mii Gunner costume off of.

i Think the implication is that the Mii Gunner's gun is lot more machine gun like, cus you know Mii gunner doesn't have a true beam move, so i guess Geno's gun would look different?, seems kinda pointless but sakurai does like his details

 

[link2702]

I don't see why they can't put them on weekends; the only thing I ever caught live was the Mewtwo DLC and something else I can't even remember. I could hide in the bathroom and watch it, but data and practicality.

While weekends would be fine for most folks I’m sure, I never get weekends off unless I request it....

 

[grizby2]

This page right here has me 100% convinced Geno is in Ultimate.

If you guys remember a while back about the observation from JoeStronger about the Vifam figure's rifle being used, this page and the lack of the Geno Beam gun has me convinced thoroughly he will be in the game and we don't need any leaks for solid evidence to prove he's in. Sakurai clued us in all along.

that'd be cool if the patterns on the arms were also incorporated with different color alts!

also off topic, but if he does somehow make it into the game, id love it if geno's facial expressions were well thought-out. I know he has that " serious" look about him that people like (myself included), but something about him with a cutesy smile really makes me tear up with hope for the little guy. TuT

 

[gebi]

Cloud was DLC, so it's not like it was all in the works beforehand. The relationship being made correctly might have been a bit late in the game. He might have been planning for Geno too but couldn't squeeze that in yet.

Or he had already planned K Rool and Ridley for the next game so he thought it would be even cooler to have him be added with the rest of the super highly requested foghters

that'd be cool if the patterns on the arms were also incorporated with different color alts!

also off topic, but if he does somehow make it into the game, id love it if geno's facial expressions were well thought-out. I know he has that " serious" look about him that people like (myself included), but something about him with a cutesy smile really makes me tear up with hope for the little guy. TuT

Yeah hopefully his laughing animation is one of his taunts along with his victory pose where her faces the camera and nods his head.

 

[Ze Diglett]

You can see it in the game; it looks identical to the Mii gunner costume, so he's already decided what it should look like.

To be fair, it stands to reason that Sakurai would want to update Geno's look a bit if he made him into a fighter, so the Mii Costume probably doesn't represent what his final design would be, gun included - heck, look at K. Rool in Ultimate vs. his original Mii Costume design if you don't believe me. I mean, wouldn't you wanna dust off a doll after it sitting on the shelf for 20 years?
I don't think the Vifam figure or the missing gun artwork outright confirms anything, of course, but it's at least something to consider.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Did anyone ever answer about that Geno discord?

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Did anyone ever answer about that Geno discord?

https://discord.gg/y7YJAD