Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[cybersai]

If Geno doesn't get in this time, is it time to move on? I've wanted Geno in for a long time, but I feel like if he doesn't get into Ultimate, it is because of Square, and thus there's nothing we can do.

If Sakurai couldn't persuade Square for Geno, or if we get a different Square rep over him like DragonQuest or Sora, etc....I think that's pretty much it. It's been 10 years since Brawl, and 4 years since Smash U, if Square doesn't budge on Geno after all that time, I'd be ready to throw in the towel.

I doubt they'd change their minds another 5+ years from now.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

If Geno doesn't get in this time, is it time to move on? I've wanted Geno in for a long time, but I feel like if he doesn't get into Ultimate, it is because of Square, and thus there's nothing we can do.

If Sakurai couldn't persuade Square for Geno, or if we get a different Square rep over him like DragonQuest or Sora, etc....I think that's pretty much it. It's been 10 years since Brawl, and 4 years since Smash U, if Square doesn't budge on Geno after all that time, I'd be ready to throw in the towel.

I doubt they'd change their minds another 5+ years from now.

For the millionth time in this thread, we need to stop pretending its 2008 and square is the boogeyman. They are working with nintendo seamlessly lately and Sakurai even said they were very flexible regarding smash 4.

And guess who they let him use in smash already? Geno. Along with Beware the Forest Mushrooms song.

If Geno is not in this game that’s on Sakurai this time. Nintendo and Square have a great working relationship and square has been involved from the start of development. They’ve already granted permission to use Geno and Sakurai knows about the demand.

That being said, the answer is yes. If Geno isn’t in Ultimate his chances are absolutely gone. Next smash game is going to be some type of reboot that scales way back on roster size.

 

[gzmee]

If Geno doesn't get in this time, is it time to move on? I've wanted Geno in for a long time, but I feel like if he doesn't get into Ultimate, it is because of Square, and thus there's nothing we can do.

If Sakurai couldn't persuade Square for Geno, or if we get a different Square rep over him like DragonQuest or Sora, etc....I think that's pretty much it. It's been 10 years since Brawl, and 4 years since Smash U, if Square doesn't budge on Geno after all that time, I'd be ready to throw in the towel.

I doubt they'd change their minds another 5+ years from now.

damn dude who pissed in your pop rocks
I understand your fear, but I think it's really gonna happen this time. It seems like everything is in place for him to make it in at this point.
Just think about K. Rool and Ridley. We had all given up hope, and yet here they are.
It's going to happen.
As a wise and very, very attractive anime boy once said, "the impossible is possible, all you gotta do is make it so!"

 

[TooManyToastahs]

For the millionth time in this thread, we need to stop pretending its 2008 and square is the boogeyman. They are working with nintendo seamlessly lately and Sakurai even said they were very flexible regarding smash 4.

And guess who they let him use in smash already? Geno. Along with Beware the Forest Mushrooms song.

If Geno is not in this game that’s on Sakurai this time. Nintendo and Square have a great working relationship and square has been involved from the start of development. They’ve already granted permission to use Geno and Sakurai knows about the demand.

That being said, the answer is yes. If Geno isn’t in Ultimate his chances are absolutely gone. Next smash game is going to be some type of reboot that scales way back on roster size.

Oh no, I hope the next Smash game isn't like that. But this thought has made me question the future of Geno in Smash after this game. If by some curse on us Geno fans, and Geno doesn't make it in from either base game OR DLC, then what happens next? Does he really have a shot after this game?

Man, who knew video game discussions could be so depressing...

 

[ctt4lfecw]

After Box Theory, I've now come to accept that Geno is gonna be in as the first DLC guy. I just hope that I don't have to wait another 5 months after launch for him to come out.

 

[SmashBro99]

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty jealous of you guys.

There's no way Geno is not getting in, DLC or not...he's a lock.

I wanna know someone I support will be added! ;_;

 

[Klimax]

We have to remember one thing... Geno is in Smash 4. Sakurai paid for the character's rights to get the MII costume.
They already paid to get him as a mii costume, of course they'll pay to get him as a unique fighter this time.
We have to believe more in Geno's chances. Look at all of the things that he has going for him. Look at how other people think that Geno is a lock ( SmashBro99 is a good example).

Geno is coming guys.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Oh no, I hope the next Smash game isn't like that. But this thought has made me question the future of Geno in Smash after this game. If by some curse on us Geno fans, and Geno doesn't make it in from either base game OR DLC, then what happens next? Does he really have a shot after this game?

Man, who knew video game discussions could be so depressing...

I'm too lazy to find the actual source, but I know I've read a Sakurai interview where he insinuates Ultimate is going to be the game where he pushes the roster size up to it's reasonable limit, and that a future installments would have a different look

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

If Geno doesn't get in this time, is it time to move on? I've wanted Geno in for a long time, but I feel like if he doesn't get into Ultimate, it is because of Square, and thus there's nothing we can do.

If Sakurai couldn't persuade Square for Geno, or if we get a different Square rep over him like DragonQuest or Sora, etc....I think that's pretty much it. It's been 10 years since Brawl, and 4 years since Smash U, if Square doesn't budge on Geno after all that time, I'd be ready to throw in the towel.

I doubt they'd change their minds another 5+ years from now.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Keep your dang towel.

He’s probably in anyway, if the roster for Ultimate was being drafted around the time we got that DLC package for WiiU/3DS, he’s most likely playable here.

Follow the money. They already got the rights to use Geno, from a business standpoint there is no difference between a costume likeness or a fully playable character. Forest’s Mushrooms was licensed and played for the costume trailer reveal. We’re getting that song with him at a minimum, but I’m betting there’s more content.

They most likely negotiated to have Cloud and Geno in both games years ago, but didn’t have enough development time to finish Geno for WiiU/3DS before they were prompted to work on a Switch title and thus here we are. There is no reason to believe Square Enix would request Geno be shelved again now, after they’ve already given Nintendo the rights. I don’t think they’d even be able to do that legally if rights were already secured.

I think if Square Enix got another one of their iconic characters in it would be via DLC. Geno is a niche but he’s a popular and long-standing one. That’s why we got representation in the last game in the 11th hour.

Were this late into speculation and haven’t been de-confirmed yet and all signs point towards his inclusion. Don’t let random leakers on 4chan make you think we’re out of the running. No one saw K Rool coming.

 

[Noipoi]

Would the Geno Whirl work as a side special that does 9999 damage if time correctly?
Seriously though, Mario rpg is still fresh in my mind and i'm looking forward to seeing moves I used in Smash.
Also, I still think Geno is base roster. I could be wrong but that's what I think.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty jealous of you guys.

There's no way Geno is not getting in, DLC or not...he's a lock.

I wanna know someone I support will be added! ;_;

That's understandable, one of your wants is still an AT, and the fate of the rest is up in the air until further notice. Maybe Isaac and B-K can get in, at least, so who knows?

We have to remember one thing... Geno is in Smash 4. Sakurai paid for the character's rights to get the MII costume.
They already paid to get him as a mii costume, of course they'll pay to get him as a unique fighter this time.
We have to believe more in Geno's chances. Look at all of the things that he has going for him. Look at how other people think that Geno is a lock ( SmashBro99 is a good example).

Geno is coming guys.

Not to mention that, since the game's planning started shortly after 4's DLC period, this would make it even easier to work with Geno if the rights to use him don't need to be paid a second time.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm too lazy to find the actual source, but I know I've read a Sakurai interview where he insinuates Ultimate is going to be the game where he pushes the roster size up to it's reasonable limit, and that a future installments would have a different look

That's sounds very interesting, do you remember what number or how close he said the size of the roster might be or is that all he said?

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

Would the Geno Whirl work as a side special that does 9999 damage if time correctly?
Seriously though, Mario rpg is still fresh in my mind and i'm looking forward to seeing moves I used in Smash.
Also, I still think Geno is base roster. I could be wrong but that's what I think.

Geno Whirl would totally be his final smash. A short cinematic of him charging the stars and throwing the disc, 9999% flashes on the screen when it connects, enemy flies off screen. Voila.

 

[skydogc]

That's sounds very interesting, do you remember what number or how close he said the size of the roster might be or is that all he said?

I don't think I've seen anywhere where he said what the number would be. If he did, we probably wouldn't be speculating as intensely. He did say not to expect as many newcomers this time around since everyone returned.
Melee had 14.
Brawl had 18.
Smash 4 had 21.

Smash ultimate is currently up to 9. The fact that 5 are unique newcomers and 4 are echo fighters may change how this is counted though.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think Geno Whirl should stay as a special, and it should require a lot of precision in order to be a critical hit.
I don't think it should do 9999 or anything much impressive, but it should have a lot of knockback, similar to Jigglypuff's rest.
Anyway, online it would probably suck, because of the lag and the inability to be precise with the timing.

Geno Whirl is not spectacular enough to work as a final smash, something like the cannon transformation or a shooting star rain would work better.

 

[Klimax]

I'm too lazy to find the actual source, but I know I've read a Sakurai interview where he insinuates Ultimate is going to be the game where he pushes the roster size up to it's reasonable limit, and that a future installments would have a different look

Yeah but he also said that because of every characters' return, he thinks that there's no going back. I think that's pretty early to say that the next Smash Bros will be some kind of reboot with many cuts. Anyway, a reboot or many cuts would be a terrible idea, probably the worst they could make. A lot of Smashers would leave the franchise.

 

[Fatmanonice]

After 13 years of Geno for Smash speculation, right now is the most comfortable I've been with his chances to the point that I'm actually more worried about Isaac getting snubbed again. Everyone recognizes that the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases were basically brothers but why not Geno and Isaac? Tons of similarities:

-Long standing Smash fanbases since the pre-Brawl days.

-Both from cult classic RPGs.

-Both totally absent from at least one Smash game despite notable fan demand (Geno for Brawl and Isaac for SSB4).

-Shelved despite their popularity.

-Both come from games with super memorable music.

-Decent sales for their respective rereleases.

-A ton of demand for sequels to their respective games.

Hell, even color schemes are very similar.

Even if Isaac isn't high on your personal list, I recommend being supportive towards that fanbase because, except for Geno being older and Sakurai mentioning him specifically, their situation and Smash timeline as a fanbase is almost identical to ours.

 

[TBone06]

After 13 years of Geno for Smash speculation, right now is the most comfortable I've been with his chances to the point that I'm actually more worried about Isaac getting snubbed again. Everyone recognizes that the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases were basically brothers but why not Geno and Isaac? Tons of similarities:

-Long standing Smash fanbases since the pre-Brawl days.

-Both from cult classic RPGs.

-Both totally absent from at least one Smash game despite notable fan demand (Geno for Brawl and Isaac for SSB4).

-Shelved despite their popularity.

-Both come from games with super memorable music.

-Decent sales for their respective rereleases.

-A ton of demand for sequels to their respective games.

Hell, even color schemes are very similar.

Even if Isaac isn't high on your personal list, I recommend being supportive towards that fanbase because, except for Geno being older and Sakurai mentioning him specifically, their situation and Smash timeline as a fanbase is almost identical to ours.

I couldn’t agree more. I actually just started Golden Sun, but I think Isaac really represents something great in Nintendo’s history. Sure he’s a silent protagonist archetype, but I think he is much more than that. I personally have no real ties with him (yet), but I think he deserves to be in, and his fan base deserves it too. You’re absolutely right, there are a lot of similarities between the two.

 

[Klimax]

After 13 years of Geno for Smash speculation, right now is the most comfortable I've been with his chances to the point that I'm actually more worried about Isaac getting snubbed again. Everyone recognizes that the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases were basically brothers but why not Geno and Isaac? Tons of similarities:

-Long standing Smash fanbases since the pre-Brawl days.

-Both from cult classic RPGs.

-Both totally absent from at least one Smash game despite notable fan demand (Geno for Brawl and Isaac for SSB4).

-Shelved despite their popularity.

-Both come from games with super memorable music.

-Decent sales for their respective rereleases.

-A ton of demand for sequels to their respective games.

Hell, even color schemes are very similar.

Even if Isaac isn't high on your personal list, I recommend being supportive towards that fanbase because, except for Geno being older and Sakurai mentioning him specifically, their situation and Smash timeline as a fanbase is almost identical to ours.

That makes me sad because while I feel that Geno is coming, since Isabelle's reveal, I'm sure that Isaac is not getting in. Since then, I nearly didn't post in the Isaac's thread because I don't want to be the "I'm sure he's not getting in" guy. And that sucks because yeah, Geno and Isaac were on the same boat and I started to support Isaac because his fanbase was cool and because his situation reminded me Geno's one. But yeah, once Geno is getting in the base game, I think we should all give massive support to Isaac's fanbase, they really deserve it. That's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong and maybe Isaac is in the base game, but I'm really sceptical now (and that sucks because i was really confident about his chances). At this point I think DLC is his only chance.

As a guy who had K Rool as his most wanted character, I definitely agree that it would be great to support even more Isaac just like Ridley's supporters did with K Rool.

 

[NukeA6]

I don't think I've seen anywhere where he said what the number would be. If he did, we probably wouldn't be speculating as intensely. He did say not to expect as many newcomers this time around since everyone returned.
Melee had 14.
Brawl had 18.
Smash 4 had 21.

Smash ultimate is currently up to 9. The fact that 5 are unique newcomers and 4 are echo fighters may change how this is counted though.

So I guess it's not unrealistic to expect 10 newcomers. That's less than Melee's and I didn't realize Smash 4 had so many. Still, I wonder if Sakurai counted the echoes as newcomers. He did say those types didn't really take much space.

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Geno doesn't get in this time, is it time to move on? I've wanted Geno in for a long time, but I feel like if he doesn't get into Ultimate, it is because of Square, and thus there's nothing we can do.

If Sakurai couldn't persuade Square for Geno, or if we get a different Square rep over him like DragonQuest or Sora, etc....I think that's pretty much it. It's been 10 years since Brawl, and 4 years since Smash U, if Square doesn't budge on Geno after all that time, I'd be ready to throw in the towel.

I doubt they'd change their minds another 5+ years from now.

I disagree because minds definitely change as do circumstances:

-Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede not in Smash 64.

-Little Mac and Isabelle as assist trophys, Charizard as a Pokeball Pokemon.

-Wario, Sonic, and Snake missing Melee.

-Every cut character coming back despite Sakurai saying since 2006 that cuts were necessary for development to go smoothly.

-Ridley being too big.

-Villager defined as a "non-fighter" at GDC in 2008.

-Ganondorf getting his sword.

-Marth speaking English.

-Cloud being the third biggest meme character in the history of Smash after Goku and Shrek.

-DLC in Smash.

-Dismissing Daisy and Chrom as too similar to their respective counterparts.

-Ditto and Sukapon being cut from Melee because of technical difficulties.

I could go on because there's a ton of examples where Sakurai's mind completely changed with the passage of time.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

There’s something your all forgetting

The new Steve thing from that guy Vergeben might be agreeing with that leaker

So wouldn’t that deconfirm the box theory right there since Steve from Minecraft could be playable and not dlc

 

[ZelDan]

I think Geno Whirl should stay as a special, and it should require a lot of precision in order to be a critical hit.
I don't think it should do 9999 or anything much impressive, but it should have a lot of knockback, similar to Jigglypuff's rest.
Anyway, online it would probably suck, because of the lag and the inability to be precise with the timing.

Geno Whirl is not spectacular enough to work as a final smash, something like the cannon transformation or a shooting star rain would work better.

I was thinking that Geno Whirl should be a special move as well. Although I do think it would be neat if they had the move do 999% damage and auto kill if charged long enough. Obviously the charge would be ridiculously long and you couldn't reasonably expect to ever pull it off in a 1v1 or free for all, assuming all other people don't ignore you for a long period.

It wouldn't be practical at all, but would make for a nice easter egg.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

After 13 years of Geno for Smash speculation, right now is the most comfortable I've been with his chances to the point that I'm actually more worried about Isaac getting snubbed again. Everyone recognizes that the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases were basically brothers but why not Geno and Isaac? Tons of similarities:

-Long standing Smash fanbases since the pre-Brawl days.

-Both from cult classic RPGs.

-Both totally absent from at least one Smash game despite notable fan demand (Geno for Brawl and Isaac for SSB4).

-Shelved despite their popularity.

-Both come from games with super memorable music.

-Decent sales for their respective rereleases.

-A ton of demand for sequels to their respective games.

Hell, even color schemes are very similar.

Even if Isaac isn't high on your personal list, I recommend being supportive towards that fanbase because, except for Geno being older and Sakurai mentioning him specifically, their situation and Smash timeline as a fanbase is almost identical to ours.

Actually as far as I've seen the Geno and Isaac support groups have become brothers and sisters. I see Isaac fans drop by here to share kind words and support all the time.
And myself and a few others have also dropped by the Isaac thread to help encourage them as well.

While I haven't played Golden sun yet I can tell Isaac is an awesome character that needs to be in smash. And I'm not willing to give up on his chances. Anything is still possible in the game and he might still make it!

 

[Kooj Kooj]

Hey guys, just so we all know the character popularity contest on reddit is voting for Geno today! Come out and support yaboi

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...mized_smash_ultimate/?st=jmdns9mn&sh=d6ff89a1

 

[Robertroid]

I disagree because minds definitely change as do circumstances:

-Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede not in Smash 64.

-Little Mac and Isabelle as assist trophys, Charizard as a Pokeball Pokemon.

-Wario, Sonic, and Snake missing Melee.

-Every cut character coming back despite Sakurai saying since 2006 that cuts were necessary for development to go smoothly.

-Ridley being too big.

-Villager defined as a "non-fighter" at GDC in 2008.

-Ganondorf getting his sword.

-Marth speaking English.

-Cloud being the third biggest meme character in the history of Smash after Goku and Shrek.

-DLC in Smash.

-Dismissing Daisy and Chrom as too similar to their respective counterparts.

-Ditto and Sukapon being cut from Melee because of technical difficulties.

I could go on because there's a ton of examples where Sakurai's mind completely changed with the passage of time.

Then, I'll support Ayumi Tachibana to come to smash. Of course, after my support for Geno

 

[aquasound]

Wasn't something supposed to be leaked today at 9am PST?

 

[Luigifan18]

Wasn't something supposed to be leaked today at 9am PST?

Yeah. The "leak" was a RickRoll, from what I've heard.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Wasn't something supposed to be leaked today at 9am PST?

If it wasn't already suspicious by having so many characters in it, already looking like a joke once he suddenly had minecraft footage after the other leakers mentioned it. maybe this will finally teach people to stop listening to every single "leak" that comes up

 

[cybersai]

The limited newcomers after Incineroar is what bugs me. If we knew we had like 4-5 newcomers left, it wouldn't be an issue.

But after Incineroar we probably only have 2 left, maybe 3 if we're lucky. Between Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid, a possible semi-clone Dixie or whoever else, obviously not everyone is going to make it. It really is a shame we have so few newcomers this game, if we had the usual amount everyone would have gotten their character in.

 

[TBone06]

The limited newcomers after Incineroar is what bugs me. If we knew we had like 4-5 newcomers left, it wouldn't be an issue.

But after Incineroar we probably only have 2 left, maybe 3 if we're lucky. Between Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid, a possible semi-clone Dixie or whoever else, obviously not everyone is going to make it. It really is a shame we have so few newcomers this game, if we had the usual amount everyone would have gotten their character in.

I agree. I'm probably in the minority, but I would've been okay if not everyone returned. I think it's really cool that they did, but I would have been fine without some vets (Young Link, Pichu, Doc, Dark Pit). I'd honestly be fine without a new Pokemon rep as well. I like to spread the love, and I'd take new characters over that bunch any day. I think out of Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Banjo and Kazooie, Skull Kid and Dixie (I'd prefer her as unique), we should get at least one of them. I think DLC opens the door too.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

The limited newcomers after Incineroar is what bugs me. If we knew we had like 4-5 newcomers left, it wouldn't be an issue.

But after Incineroar we probably only have 2 left, maybe 3 if we're lucky. Between Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid, a possible semi-clone Dixie or whoever else, obviously not everyone is going to make it. It really is a shame we have so few newcomers this game, if we had the usual amount everyone would have gotten their character in.

Yeah but the reason we are getting so few is because Everyone Is Here. I think no matter what happens with new characters I think it will still be for the best that they went this route. we are also getting a bunch a great touches to existing characters as well. I see this game as being the important update to the series so that future games can work off of what this one established.

also with DLC there is still room for all the bigger requests to eventually make it in. they know what we want because of the ballot now. and if they really do plan to have this be the last smash game for awhile than we may have an even longer cycle of DLC ahead of us.

 

[Graf von Tirol]

Geno's up against Crash in the randomized fan poll today.

Direct link to the poll itself is here.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, not to be a smartass but has Sora ever cameoed in anything outside of Kingdom Hearts? I was at work today and this kind of hit me out of nowhere, considering the general consensus that Verg's mystery SE character is probably Geno or Sora. One thing I realized was that Sora wasn't in the World Ends With You games despite coming from literally the same director, character designer, and developer. The opposite is true of Neku though. Doesn't that strike anyone else as incredibly weird? Is Sora partially owned by Disney because, again, I'm not trying to be cute, I honestly don't know.

 

[AugustusB]

So, not to be a smartass but has Sora ever cameoed in anything outside of Kingdom Hearts? I was at work today and this kind of hit me out of nowhere, considering the general consensus that Verg's mystery SE character is probably Geno or Sora. One thing I realized was that Sora wasn't in the World Ends With You games despite coming from literally the same director, character designer, and developer. The opposite is true of Neku though. Doesn't that strike anyone else as incredibly weird? Is Sora partially owned by Disney because, again, I'm not trying to be cute, I honestly don't know.

That is a really good point. I can't for the life of me remember seeing Sora in a crossover. I believe Sora is owned by Disney. Kind of how Geno is mainly a SE character but in his case Geno is 50/50 where Sora I believe is 99% owned by Disney.

 

[kingkalamari]

So, not to be a smartass but has Sora ever cameoed in anything outside of Kingdom Hearts? I was at work today and this kind of hit me out of nowhere, considering the general consensus that Verg's mystery SE character is probably Geno or Sora. One thing I realized was that Sora wasn't in the World Ends With You games despite coming from literally the same director, character designer, and developer. The opposite is true of Neku though. Doesn't that strike anyone else as incredibly weird? Is Sora partially owned by Disney because, again, I'm not trying to be cute, I honestly don't know.

Sora is 100% owned by Disney, he's pretty much what King K Rool is to Rare and Nintendo. SE makes the game and publishes it, but Disney owns the full rights. The reason Sora has never appeared is because of how stingy the Mouse is. I've read some statements before that they would refer to Nomura for his blessing to use him for anything, but I think that might just be Disney PR. Unless the fan demand was insane for him(he doesnt seem to be that much of a desired pick, imo) I cant see Sakurai wanting to approach Disney for him, as Disney made it clear that Nintendo would have to come to them and work something out if they wanted Sora in.

 

[Xigger]

I disagree because minds definitely change as do circumstances:

-Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede not in Smash 64.
-Little Mac and Isabelle as assist trophys, Charizard as a Pokeball Pokemon.
-Wario, Sonic, and Snake missing Melee.
-Every cut character coming back despite Sakurai saying since 2006 that cuts were necessary for development to go smoothly.
-Ridley being too big.
-Villager defined as a "non-fighter" at GDC in 2008.
-Ganondorf getting his sword.
-Marth speaking English.
-Cloud being the third biggest meme character in the history of Smash after Goku and Shrek.
-DLC in Smash.
-Dismissing Daisy and Chrom as too similar to their respective counterparts.
-Ditto and Sukapon being cut from Melee because of technical difficulties.

I could go on because there's a ton of examples where Sakurai's mind completely changed with the passage of time.

One thing that doesn't get brought up enough is that we give Sakurai a little too much credit. It isn't just Sakurai's current mindset: it's the fans' mindset, or other companies too. For example:

-Melee has backlash for too many clones, which started an anti-clone sentiment we're all familiar with. Clones like Daisy and Chrom would have upset many fans before Ultimate. It's only after Echoes are explicitly labeled to take up little dev time, that they are welcomed.

-Little Mac as an Assist Trophy makes sense for a decades-old fighter who needed a major redesign, and moveset exploration. I always believed that Trophies and Assist Trophies are like concept designs. (Remember Pit's trophy from Melee?)

-Any third party would have been much more difficult before Smash became one of the top sellers. Smash didn't have the development team, legal team, or the influence to work with several companies like it does now.

-Villager being a "non-fighter" makes a little sense during Brawl, especially after hardcore/dark/semi-serious Melee, when Brawl was made. Remember, this was during Subspace Emissary and its dark tones. When Pikachu was tortured and R.O.B.s suicide-bombed. Smash became a LOT more laid-back after that.

 

[zabimaru1000]

So, not to be a smartass but has Sora ever cameoed in anything outside of Kingdom Hearts? I was at work today and this kind of hit me out of nowhere, considering the general consensus that Verg's mystery SE character is probably Geno or Sora. One thing I realized was that Sora wasn't in the World Ends With You games despite coming from literally the same director, character designer, and developer. The opposite is true of Neku though. Doesn't that strike anyone else as incredibly weird? Is Sora partially owned by Disney because, again, I'm not trying to be cute, I honestly don't know.

Sora appears in World of Final Fantasy as a DLC summon

One of the games main things was summoning Final Fantasy characters to attack. You can say this is the only cameo he's made.

 

[BrashCandicoot]

Geno's up against Crash in the randomized fan poll today.

Direct link to the poll itself is here.

Funny that my 2 most wanted characters for Smash Ultimate were against each other, it was so hard to choose

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

One thing that doesn't get brought up enough is that we give Sakurai a little too much credit. It isn't just Sakurai's current mindset: it's the fans' mindset, or other companies too. For example:

-Melee has backlash for too many clones, which started an anti-clone sentiment we're all familiar with. Clones like Daisy and Chrom would have upset many fans before Ultimate. It's only after Echoes are explicitly labeled to take up little dev time, that they are welcomed.

-Little Mac as an Assist Trophy makes sense for a decades-old fighter who needed a major redesign, and moveset exploration. I always believed that Trophies and Assist Trophies are like concept designs. (Remember Pit's trophy from Melee?)

-Any third party would have been much more difficult before Smash became one of the top sellers. Smash didn't have the development team, legal team, or the influence to work with several companies like it does now.

-Villager being a "non-fighter" makes a little sense during Brawl, especially after hardcore/dark/semi-serious Melee, when Brawl was made. Remember, this was during Subspace Emissary and its dark tones. When Pikachu was tortured and R.O.B.s suicide-bombed. Smash became a LOT more laid-back after that.

Given all that, it's all the more important to steer things in the right direction (and hopefully not be blamed for the reason we can't have nice things sometimes).

Also, you forgot how 4 had to censor underwear to help tone things down compared to the T rating of Brawl and Melee (the ERSB's E10+ rating didn't exist back then, if I do recall correctly).