Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

View attachment 262205
Bowser and Peach getting knocked into the blast zone.

Exor looking at Mario like: Boi, you don't know who the **** you're dealing with!

 

[TX-55]

This was never an issue. The biggest issue was that there would be two spirits of the same character, which has the development team has yet to show a solution for.

What are you talking about, having 2 spirits of the same character isn't like having a spirit battle with set conditions.

I know what you're trying to argue here, consistency.
And that died a long time ago back in Super Smash Brothers for N64.

There are Fighters who don't have an alternate artwork for their fighter spirit like Robin, and Cloud.

There's Chrom, who is part of Robin's Final Smash and victory pose, yet he still managed to nab a slot in the roster.

Nintendo/Sakurai and the development team can do whatever they want, and no arbitrary reason is going to stop them from adding 1 or 2 highly requested characters in this game.

 

[Vector Victor]

At the very least, we know that Geno's spirit battle will change out Sheik. The biggest question is with WHAT.

 

[Spatulo]

This was never an issue. The biggest issue was that there would be two spirits of the same character, which has the development team has yet to show a solution for.

If that’s the issue then there’s never been a problem because that’s completely asinine.

 

[Icewolff92]

"Sees Jon is an insider comment"... Yes, because Arle from PuyoPuyo was playable... along with Chibi-Robo and Shadow. The fact that people take every word of his under a microscope is hysterical and also facepalm inducing. Especially when it¨s just arguments and not straight up "leaks". I can truly understand is build up frustration about it all.

There is never the garuntee of any character to be in Smash bros if speculation wouldn't even be on the table. We can say it would be no fun, somehow.

If only any fanbase within the Smash community would share that same mindset, then

Mega Man gets replaced by a Mii Gunner wearing Cuphead's costume, and the music changes to Floral Fury from whatever it was previously.

Or.. if you have played Cuphead, you would know that Mega Mans move set fits a Cuphead spirit battle a lot better then an actual Mii Gunner. And concidering Cuphead and MugMan are essentially "brothers" with the same moveset, it makes even more sense for having both being Megaman in their respective colors.

 

[Aerospherology]

"Sees Jon is an insider comment"... Yes, because Arle from PuyoPuyo was playable... along with Chibi-Robo and Shadow. The fact that people take every word of his under a microscope is hysterical and also facepalm inducing. Especially when it¨s just arguments and not straight up "leaks". I can truly understand is build up frustration about it all.



If only any fanbase within the Smash community would share that same mindset, then



Or.. if you have played Cuphead, you would know that Mega Mans move set fits a Cuphead spirit battle a lot better then an actual Mii Gunner. And concidering Cuphead and MugMan are essentially "brothers" with the same moveset, it makes even more sense for having both being Megaman

Cuphead is basically Mega Man and Sans is basically Ne-

 

[RetrogamerMax]

At the very least, we know that Geno's spirit battle will change out Sheik. The biggest question is with WHAT.

With Geno himself of course.

 

[TX-55]

"Sees Jon is an insider comment"... Yes, because Arle from PuyoPuyo was playable... along with Chibi-Robo and Shadow. The fact that people take every word of his under a microscope is hysterical and also facepalm inducing. Especially when it¨s just arguments and not straight up "leaks". I can truly understand is build up frustration about it all.



If only any fanbase within the Smash community would share that same mindset, then



Or.. if you have played Cuphead, you would know that Mega Mans move set fits a Cuphead spirit battle a lot better then an actual Mii Gunner.

Then why change it ?
Why couldn't they just settle with Mega Man representing Cuphead for those who bought the costume?

 

[Heoj]

i mean, they swapped megaman with cuphead mii becaus... its a cuphead mii. megaman does fit but like, of course they would swap it with an actual cuphead model. When Geno becomes playable they will probably just replace shiek with geno and rename the spirit.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Geno thread, what I'm about to share could most likely be the biggest hit against Spirit deconfirmations, and Spirit battles (for both WoL and The Spirit Board).

I stumbled upon an interesting post, on Gamefaqs no less (Not sure if I can share the link here).
Anyways, what caught my attention was that Spirit Battles can be altered, specifically the fighter representing said Spirit could be switched for a different fighter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNintendoFeed/status/1227589841690472449
View attachment 262249
Now look closely at the pics in this tweet, what do you see?
The Cuphead spirit is being represented by Mega Man. And apparently, that same spirit battle is changed if you've purchased Cuphead's Mii costume.

Mega Man gets replaced by a Mii Gunner wearing Cuphead's costume, and the music changes to Floral Fury from whatever it was previously.

Geno, Waluigi, Isaac, Shantae, and all the characters who had a Spirit battle since base game could get theirs altered if they were chosen for Fighters Pass Vol. 2 and beyond.

This is potentially big for the reasons you stated but it also provides yet another explanation to why certain things haven't happened yet, namely Undertale spirits. One possible explanation is that we're getting more Undertale content and, like the leak that was stolen from one of my guys back in December showed, a Kris Mii costume in the future is definitely a strong possibility. This potentially makes the argument that we'll be seeing an Undertale/Deltarune spirit event at some point that will use Undertale and Deltarune Mii costumes and music.

 

[T2by4]

This is potentially big for the reasons you stated but it also provides yet another explanation to why certain things haven't happened yet, namely Undertale spirits. One possible explanation is that we're getting more Undertale content and, like the leak that was stolen from one of my guys back in December showed, a Kris Mii costume in the future is definitely a strong possibility. This potentially makes the argument that we'll be seeing an Undertale/Deltarune spirit event at some point that will use Undertale and Deltarune Mii costumes and music.

>Kris
>yet no Frisk yet

hmmm

 

[Icewolff92]

Then why change it ? Why couldn't they just settle with Mega Man representing Cuphead for those who bought the costume?

Megaman was always supposed to represent the two no matter if you bought it or not.
The only one that changed was King Dice from Mii Swordfighter to Mewtwo which actually suits him better.

Scroll down the official Japanese Smash Bros account and see for yourself https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If we were getting a Undertale rep, I personally would have wanted it to be Sans if anybody. Imagine the Internet's reaction if Sans was confirmed as a playable newcomer instead of a Mii costume. My lord the planet couldn't handle the hype levels everybody would produce from it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's kind of annoying that Geno's "obstacles" have been getting destroyed one at a time for almost two years now to the point that the only thing that's left is literally one promotion... Of over a thousand spirits with no playable counterpart, just ONE needs to be promoted and that's it. GG. The last major argument against Geno dies in epic fashion. This is also why I don't think Geno or Crash will be 6 because I'm dead set on it being a promotion of some kind. No offense to Geno, he's the Supreme Lad ™ but I don't think Nintendo wants him to have that honor to be the first to make the jump from NPC to fighter in the same game.

 

[TX-55]

Megaman was always supposed to represent the two no matter if you bought it or not.
The only one that changed was King Dice from Mii Swordfighter to Mewtwo which actually suits him better.

Scroll down the official Japanese Smash Bros account and see for yourself https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP

You're missing the point.
I don't care who represents who, they could've made Ganondorf represent Cuphead and I wouldn't bat an eye.

It's the fact Spirit Battles can be changed that intrigues me, not who plays Cuphead.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It's kind of annoying that Geno's "obstacles" have been getting destroyed one at a time for almost two years now to the point that the only thing that's left is literally one promotion... Of over a thousand spirits with no playable counterpart, just ONE needs to be promoted and that's it. GG. The last major argument against Geno dies in epic fashion. This is also why I don't think Geno or Crash will be 6 because I'm dead set on it being a promotion of some kind. No offense to Geno, he's the Supreme Lad ™ but I don't think Nintendo wants him to have that honor to be the first to make the jump from NPC to fighter in the same game.

Is it Wah time?!

 

[Icewolff92]

It's the fact Spirit Battles can be changed that intrigues me, not who plays Cuphead.

Tell me, what exactly has Dice going from Swordfighter to Mewtwo benefits potential AT/Spirit promotion exactly? It¨s not like King Dice would ever be playable, to begin with. I¨m not saying that there won¨t be an AT or Spirit promotion (hell I hope for a certain spirit promotion or otherwise I would not be here) but your argument does not make any sense

Especially since this is a battle that has yet to end up in the game. Not one that is ALREADY in the game.

 

[T2by4]

It's kind of annoying that Geno's "obstacles" have been getting destroyed one at a time for almost two years now to the point that the only thing that's left is literally one promotion... Of over a thousand spirits with no playable counterpart, just ONE needs to be promoted and that's it. GG. The last major argument against Geno dies in epic fashion. This is also why I don't think Geno or Crash will be 6 because I'm dead set on it being a promotion of some kind. No offense to Geno, he's the Supreme Lad ™ but I don't think Nintendo wants him to have that honor to be the first to make the jump from NPC to fighter in the same game.

>in the same game

This may be last smash game, let's be real. If they're going to satisfy the most amount of fans, this is the game to do it. He has to be a fighter in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm being skeptical of everything. I believe a lot of what people are saying could be true. I also believe Geno could finally get in.

But also unsure he just maybe a Mii costume which would suck but I think it'd look cool. 50/50 myself . But I am rooting for him as always and hoping as ever he's finally in.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

>in the same game

This may be last smash game, let's be real. If they're going to satisfy the most amount of fans, this is the game to do it. He has to be a fighter in this game.

Even if Ultimate seems or is impossible to surpass, Smash is too big of a cash cow for them to let go. Believe me, we are getting another Smash after this game whether it has Sakurai directing it or not Nintendo won't let this franchise die.

 

[TX-55]

Tell me, what exactly has Dice going from Swordfighter to Mewtwo benefits potential AT/Spirit promotion exactly? It¨s not like King Dice would ever be playable to begin with

Dude, what the f ?
It's right there in front of you, they can alter spirit battles based on conflicting new content.

Mega Man does not equal Cuphead in the eyes of the developers, even if it's just a Mii costume.
The team went through the trouble to make Mega Man a substitute for Cuphead and switch them for those who bought the costume.

They could've just stopped at Mega Man.

 

[Deleted member]

Mario in his tennis outfit and Mario stuck in a rock.

nu-nuh uh! Spring Mario and Boulder Mario and Mario sitting down to referee a boxing match aren't Mario! They're all different people!

Personally, my arms would get tired, moving that bigass goal post around like that.

That said... I don't think any changes that can be done to a spirit board battle are necessarily good news for Geno or indicative of a potential change to his spirit battle in World of Light. He's definitely in a special place, so I could be wrong about this, but there's two things that I think keep his spirit battle from being updated:

1. It's in World of Light. If included before any other spirit upgrade, he would be the only spirit mandatory for 100% clearing World of Light that had been changed and it would be odd to change the entire dynamic of the spirit battle like that.

2. No other DLC character has been added to World of Light as a replacement in a spirit battle, despite the fact that some fights would probably benefit from the character being changed, either in terms of playstyle or in terms of aesthetic.

That's just my speculation on the matter and I'll be happy to be wrong.

If we were getting a Undertale rep, I personally would have wanted it to be Sans if anybody. Imagine the Internet's reaction if Sans was confirmed as a playable newcomer instead of a Mii costume. My lord the planet couldn't handle the hype levels everybody would produce from it.

I'd end up breaking a lot of personal convictions and actually learn to get good with a hypothetical playable Asgore, not gonna lie. However, I don't think this situation would be received as positively as you imagine - Sans has, by intention or by accident, become the face of Undertale (frightening, considering what you have to do to get in a fight with the guy), and I imagine that people would suddenly be a lot less happy to see any other character take the fighter slot from him, despite him having a very limited moveset potential compared to most every other boss.

>in the same game

This may be last smash game, let's be real. If they're going to satisfy the most amount of fans, this is the game to do it. He has to be a fighter in this game.

He's just saying he doesn't expect Geno to be the first promotion, not that he doesn't expect him to be promoted. I disagree, honestly. He's been requested for longer than a significant fraction of the playerbase has been alive, and if there's any character that thematically shows off the possibilities in this pass, the "upgrades can happen" the "wishes do come true", it's Geno. They could open this pass with him and people would believe this pass to be the pass where their favorite makes it, even if he turns out to be another Banjo and ends up being a false promise of fan satisfaction while we get 5 Fire Emblem characters and a bonus Goomba after him.

 

[Icewolff92]

Dude, what the f ?
It's right there in front of you, they can alter spirit battles based on conflicting new content.

Did you miss "Especially since this is a battle that has yet to end up in the game. Not one that is ALREADY in the game."

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Tinfoil hat time: What if they're delaying the Cuphead Spirit event for FP6 which is Waluigi and Waluigi is King Dice in the Spirit board event? Waluigi and King Dice do resemble one another a bit with the long legs, purple clothing, and mustache.

Edit: OH, THEY BOTH ROLL DICE!!! WALUIGI CONFIRMED Y'ALL!!! But really guys let's:

 

[Deleted member]

Tinfoil hat time: What if they're delaying the Cuphead Spirit event for FP6 which is Waluigi and Waluigi is King Dice in the Spirit board event? Waluigi and King Dice do resemble one another a bit with the long legs, purple clothing, and mustache.

The cuphead event happens today though?

 

[Antho]

Dude, what the f ?
It's right there in front of you, they can alter spirit battles based on conflicting new content.

Mega Man does not equal Cuphead in the eyes of the developers, even if it's just a Mii costume.
The team went through the trouble to make Mega Man a substitute for Cuphead and switch them for those who bought the costume.

They could've just stopped at Mega Man.

Did you miss "Especially since this is a battle that has yet to end up in the game. Not one that is ALREADY in the game."

I don’t know if it’s just me but you guys seem to be talking and arguing about two different things. There must have been a misconception somewhere
The King Dice spirit changing from Mii Swordfighter to Mewtwo is different than the Cuphead spirit changing to the Cuphead Mii Costume if you own it instead of Red Mega Man. Secondly, the Cuphead event HAS started already. Nintendo UK VS posted a tweet about it. The main point being is that assumedly (I don’t know if it’s true or not), if you don’t own the Cuphead costume, the Cuphead spirit battle is a Red Mega Man. If you do own the Cuphead costume, the Cuphead spirit battle is a Mii Gunner dressed up as Cuphead, which shows that they can hypothetically change spirits based on what costumes you have.

 

[TX-55]

Did you miss "Especially since this is a battle that has yet to end up in the game. Not one that is ALREADY in the game."

You know what, I give up.
Forget my post, nothing makes sense.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The cuphead event happens today though?

I thought it got delayed? My bad I guess.

 

[xpnc]

Conspiracy theory:
-Geno was supposed to be #5
-Nintendo wanted Byleth instead (who was going to be in the next Challenger Pack, possibly #6)
-Geno was going to get Smithy, Mallow, Chocobo Hat, and Doom costumes to pad it out
-Costumes completed before Nintendo made Sakurai switch gears to advertise Three Houses DLC
-Cacomallow is real
-Geno may have switched places with Byleth or been delayed to E3
-Geno is in Smash

 

[Deleted member]

I thought it got delayed? My bad I guess.

The rumor was that it was delayed because its spirit event ID numerically came before a spirit event that happened chronologically before it. There was also a rumor that there's a spirit event outright missing, but I think earlier in this thread it was debunked, if I understand correctly.

I'm erring towards the numerical values meaning nothing.

 

[Icewolff92]

I don’t know if it’s just me but you guys seem to be talking and arguing about two different things. There must have been a misconception somewhere
The King Dice spirit changing from Mii Swordfighter to Mewtwo is different than the Cuphead spirit changing to the Cuphead Mii Costume if you own it instead of Red Mega Man. Secondly, the Cuphead event HAS started already. Nintendo UK VS posted a tweet about it. The main point being is that assumedly (I don’t know if it’s true or not), if you don’t own the Cuphead costume, the Cuphead spirit battle is a Red Mega Man. If you do own the Cuphead costume, the Cuphead spirit battle is a Mii Gunner dressed up as Cuphead, which shows that they can hypothetically change spirits based on what costumes you have.

With my understanding, TX-55 said that the changes towards Mii Sword Fighter with Mewtwo (that were decided before they released them) can be a hint towards the spirit and assist trophy promotion when the matter of fact that these fights have never been earlier in the game. They apparently arrived today which was something I missed apparently, where something like renaming those legends of Zelda spirits that were already in (which happened when the Three Houses spirits got included) is something that is worth keeping in mind in comparison

Also, I checked that twitter, there is nothing that claims that there is any difference between if you have the costume or not

 

[BluYoshi828]

Forgot to mention it in my previous post, but I feel like the only real obstacle left to get Geno... is Square. Which ties into my following rant.

It is utterly shameful how Square has treated the whole Smash Bros. situation. Cloud being DLC in Smash 4 I can understand 100%, to a degree I even understood not adding much music or anything beyond the stages and AC costume alts.

But then Ultimate happened, and nothing new was added for Cloud. I remember reading somewhere that Square was being "protective" of their IP... but if history has proven anything, is that having your character/series represented in Smash is obscenely beneficial. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see and tell the positive effects of having certain characters featured. Fire Emblem's success in the West can 100% be linked to Marth & Roy being added back in Smash Melee. I'm sure series like Metal Gear Solid got more attention once Snake got into Brawl, particularly from Nintendo diehards who never even touched a PlayStation(or heard of that GameCube remake, winkwink). It doesn't take a lot of effort to go back and see the benefits Smash Bros. has had on these series.

It's also really odd how the Geno cameo got removed from the Mario & Luigi SSS remake. Of course, maybe this could be chalked up to being one of several odd changes in that game, like changing certain enemy designs to be less original. I dunno for sure, as I said in my last post I'm more of a Paper Mario stan than a Mario & Luigi fan. RIP to Alphadream all the same though, SuperStar and Bowser's are worthy entries in the Mario RPG series for sure. Fawful should have been an Assist Trophy at least.

Basically, I feel that Square doesn't respect Smash Bros, for some unknown reason. At least not to the degree they should. We probably should be thankful that we even got Cloud and Dragon Quest Hero in at all with all this knowledge in mind, but until we get Geno, there's always gonna be that missing piece for sure. Sora is literally the only Square character I can understand being excluded, partially because... well, Sora is technically owned by Disney. Though I'm sure Nintendo/Sakurai would have to talk to Square and/or Nomura about certain aspects anyway.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Conspiracy theory:
-Geno was supposed to be #5
-Nintendo wanted Byleth instead (who was going to be in the next Challenger Pack, possibly #6)
-Geno was going to get Smithy, Mallow, Chocobo Hat, and Doom costumes to pad it out
-Costumes completed before Nintendo made Sakurai switch gears to advertise Three Houses DLC
-Cacomallow is real
-Geno may have switched places with Byleth or been delayed to E3
-Geno is in Smash

That was what I was thinking except Byleth wasn't supposed to be our 6 but was actually just made 5 once FP2 was green lit and Geno was just moved to 6

 

[TX-55]

With my understanding, TX-55 said that the changes towards Mii Sword Fighter with Mewtwo (that were decided before they released them) can be a hint towards the spirit and assist trophy promotion when the matter of fact that these fights have never been earlier in the game. They apparently arrived today which was something I missed apparently, where something like renaming those legends of Zelda spirits that were already in (which happened when the Three Houses spirits got included) is something that is worth keeping in mind in comparison

Also, I checked that twitter, there is nothing that claims that there is any difference between if you have the costume or not

I bought the Cuphead mii costume, I get to fight a Mii Gunner dressed as Cuphead.
Another didn't buy the Cuphead costume, they get to fight Mega Man.
But once they buy the Mii costume, that spirit battle drops Mega Man for a Mii Gunner Cuphead.

It's really that simple.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Conspiracy theory:
-Geno was supposed to be #5
-Nintendo wanted Byleth instead (who was going to be in the next Challenger Pack, possibly #6)
-Geno was going to get Smithy, Mallow, Chocobo Hat, and Doom costumes to pad it out
-Costumes completed before Nintendo made Sakurai switch gears to advertise Three Houses DLC
-Cacomallow is real
-Geno may have switched places with Byleth or been delayed to E3
-Geno is in Smash

I almost fully believe this honestly. Explains a lot of the nonsense of the last few months. Just a question of where they’re slotting him in now. 6 or 7 are ripe for the taking

 

[Icewolff92]

I bought the Cuphead mii costume, I get to fight a Mii Gunner dressed as Cuphead.
Another didn't buy the Cuphead costume, they get to fight Mega Man.
But once they buy the Mii costume, that spirit battle drops Mega Man for a Mii Gunner Cuphead.

It's really that simple.

Okay.. fair enough (only went through the twitter info since I don¨t have access to my switch as of right now I admitt). But that still doesn¨t change the fact that this spirit battle got in today. They could just easily programed the battle so it would be like that for those that had/buy it later deal.

This is still not the same thing as the Hilda from LEgend of Zelda spirit got their spirit renamed after Hilda from Fire Emblem Three Houses got in as a spirit. A
A base game spirit that gets their spirit renamed =/= a recently arrived spirit battle that differs depending on a purchase or not... Let say Geno get¨s, but as a costume (playing devils advocate here) and his spirit battle would change to the costume, then that¨s a different scenario. Or Sans had a spirit, with his costume/Ness, but then he later became a character so it would be Ness no matter what

 

[Dorayaki]

It's kind of annoying that Geno's "obstacles" have been getting destroyed one at a time for almost two years now to the point that the only thing that's left is literally one promotion... Of over a thousand spirits with no playable counterpart, just ONE needs to be promoted and that's it. GG. The last major argument against Geno dies in epic fashion. This is also why I don't think Geno or Crash will be 6 because I'm dead set on it being a promotion of some kind. No offense to Geno, he's the Supreme Lad ™ but I don't think Nintendo wants him to have that honor to be the first to make the jump from NPC to fighter in the same game.

Geno's biggest obstacle at this point is still the fact NIntendo chose plant piranha over him to be the latest Mario rep, ignoring the difficulty of forcing expanding Mario contents at this point. It feels like Geno was a potential bonus choice if NIntendo wanted to make it happen without highlighting him as a main content,

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

While the cuphead spirit battle being able to swap fighters based on whether you bought the Mii costume is certainly interesting, I totally agree with @Serenade01 that it doesn't really help Geno's chances specifically with Geno spirit being in WoL. Not only that, but even if they did change it who's to say it wouldn't just be to Mii Gunner in Geno costume should we be living in one of the less appealing realities. None of this really helps Geno's chances as a playable fighter. The spirit renaming, his name being prominent in some insider information, and continued absence of the Mii costume are still the best actual evidence we have for Geno potentially being playable imo and tbh that's not a whole lot to go on. And until we see a promotion I still am not convinced there will be any.

 

[Dorayaki]

Basically, I feel that Square doesn't respect Smash Bros, for some unknown reason. At least not to the degree they should. We probably should be thankful that we even got Cloud and Dragon Quest Hero in at all with all this knowledge in mind, but until we get Geno, there's always gonna be that missing piece for sure. Sora is literally the only Square character I can understand being excluded, partially because... well, Sora is technically owned by Disney. Though I'm sure Nintendo/Sakurai would have to talk to Square and/or Nomura about certain aspects anyway.

My personal thought isn't that Square isn't respecting Nintendo or Smash bros, at least they do, so that they can promote their brands under NIntendo consoles. I think what matters is that they don't think Geno matters to NIntendo and its fanbase, and mutually, Nintendo share the same thought with them. In their mind they regard Cloud and the DQ heroes as their current bridge of cooperation.

Like I mentinoed before, Nintendo isn't the main source of problem, the biggest matter is that Square never think about making use of Geno in their own game series despite of ownership. I do think with given popularity and potential, they could think about it, and not doing anything is a real waste. It would had been a good oppotunity for Geno to get rid of the Mario frame and start his own business to be like Banjo,

 

[Organization XIII]

I think hoping Byleth wasn't 5 is just wishful thinking. I know we'd all hope Nintendo and Sakurai wouldn't be as tone-deaf as making a FE character the last of the pass especially as they've repeatedly shown they are aware of the community's feelings but they are. I know that according to the pattern the pass seemed to set, Byleth looks like an outlier but if we look beyond the pass to the last generation of DLC we see a different story. Last game the only newcomers we got are the exact same thing as the pass, third parties and ads for Nintendo. Nintendo has always made sure to have some characters to promote what they are doing. With hindsight it's easy to see what actually happened was we were all just too quick to let go of the ad pick. Sure it sucks, but it makes way more sense than some super amazing character shuffling conspiracy.