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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Fatmanonice

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I can agree with most of your points, but my thought is that given how disastrously Byleth was received, I feel like that Nintendo would want there to be a buffer/heavy hitter right of the gate like Joker was for the first one. I don't think it would make sense to wait 5 months for just one character to start off the new wave of DLC. If anything, I imagine they would want someone to give people incentive to purchase the pass instead of being all blind.
Like I said, Joker was the second most popular pick of the Fighter's Pass while Banjo was the first. Expectations were crushed after Plant but, to Nintendo's benefit, it wouldn't take much to pick things up. Hero and Terry would have been too weak and Byleth would have been GG. Banjo right off the bat would have made expectations goofy high and, with the spread of the remaining characters (including one they knew was going to be received poorly), it would basically just be a gradual downhill slide. If you're going to go "down", you want to have a highest jumping off point that you can have. Banjo was the "peak" and coincidentally he was right in the middle.
 

JarBear

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Firox Firox I get what you are saying about Waluigi not being the most "knock of the socks" on him alone, but think about what it MEANS in regards to the rest of the pass.

Joker opened the conversation of "Wow, ANYONE can get in, think of the possibilities!

Waluigi would similarly have a similar "Wow!" conversation since he would be a promoted Assist Trophy. Now the "fan rules" are done. That would jump start the hype train of "who else can get in?!" AT, Mii costumes and Spirits are CLEARLY on the table!

Granted, I would love it to be Geno, and who knows! I don't care about the whole "fitting" being #77 thing as long as he is in. But, then again, a E3 reveal would be epic for him more so than Waluigi.

Anyway, hoping for the best.
 

MattX20

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Starvation strategy really IS a good name for this

I've mentioned it before: But my belief is that Number 6 is going to actually be a big one for two reasons

1. They frontloaded the first pass with Joker, the most left-field "Wait how is that even possible!?" pick you could imagine. People were on the fence for the pass, but Joker was such an out there reveal it sold everyone on it. Nintendo will most likely try to pull something like this again

2. Byleth. Sakurai literally warned us ahead of time in the reveal itself to not be upset, that knowing smile when he put up the poster, "Too many swordsmen are there?", they know... they KNOW the Smash fandom hates Fire Emblem and the reveal would piss off a good portion of the fanbase; and now that we got burned by Byleth people are once again on the fence about purchasing Fighter Pass 2. Which goes right back to the first point, frontloading with an insane pick. Now they have to also work on winning back the fandom after putting in what they knew would be an unpopular choice.

So with those points in mind, I think there is a real possibility Geno could be Number 6 (Even though 7 would be thematically better)
Technically though, Geno would still be the 7th DLC pick if you include Piranha Plant.
 

MisterMike

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B) Visual appeal. Sorry, but Waluigi is just not easy on the eyes. He's cartoony, fun, campy, and maybe just a little creepy, but "cool" is likely not the first word people will think of to describe him.
How ****ing dare you. Waluigi is a sex symbol, goddammit!
 

Polarthief

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Waluigi - Geno - Lloyd- Dante - Crash - Master Chief
Oh man if that was our FP. I want 2 (#1 and #5 top picks!), care about 1 (and the injustice he was faced); don't care about 3 but don't reeeeally mind them? Would prefer Doomguy over MC (plus more likely to get DG over a second Microsoft rep), but either way, that's more than enough for me for sure.

Waluigi would similarly have a similar "Wow!" conversation since he would be a promoted Assist Trophy. Now the "fan rules" are done. That would jump start the hype train of "who else can get in?!" AT, Mii costumes and Spirits are CLEARLY on the table!
I mean it would break open the door for ATs. As far as Mii costumes go though, if they were introduced post-base launch, I'd they're as good as deconfirmed. I mean why push a Mii costume that you know will be playable later? It would just depend on when the FP2 characters were picked in development. If they were picked sometime after E3, I'd say the costumes that came with Joker and possibly Hero could be on the table for potentials, but any of the ones with Banjo-Byleth are as good as dead (at least for FP2).

Visual appeal. Sorry, but Waluigi is just not easy on the eyes. He's cartoony, fun, campy, and maybe just a little creepy, but "cool" is likely not the first word people will think of to describe him.
Do you not remember the reaction to seeing an Assist Trophy? Even Reggie had to step in and say "guys, we get it already" and the only other time I remember hearing about him saying stuff like that was regarding Mother 3.
 
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JarBear

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Hey, maybe this next pass will be the "opposite" of the first Pass.

The first Pass is mostly (4/5) unrepresented franchises and the second pass is mostly represented franchises.

If I could chose ONE more already established franchise asides from the hypothetical Geno, Lloyd and Waluigi ... I gotta give it to Isaac for Golden Sun.
 

Fatmanonice

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On the topic of "expectations", that's also kind of another element of the start of Smash "Seasons."

Brawl- Again, total surprise. Also, Snake. Third party wall gets BTFO. Along with this, Snake is not at all cartoony. He smokes, swears, snaps people's necks, and has blown up people into chunks of meat the size of Swedish meatballs. He was far away from what people were expecting.

Smash 4- Wait... Villager? Wasn't that a character that Sakurai outright rejected for Brawl? *checks notes* Yep. No avatars and no "non-fighters" fan rules get curb stomped.

Smash 4 DLC- Uh... The fact that we even got DLC to begin with.

Ryu- The first third party DLC character. One fan rule broken: Capcom double dips. Another fan rule broken: a realistic fighter from a traditional fighting game.

Smash Ultimate- First Smash game since the original not announced at E3.

E3 2018- Ridley and Daisy: two characters that Sakurai had publicly rejected multiple times.

VGAs 2018- "You never saw it coming." Who would have thought that Joker would have been in Smash? Definitely as surprising as Snake and Cloud.
 

Polarthief

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If I could chose ONE more already established franchise asides from the hypothetical Geno, Lloyd and Waluigi ... I gotta give it to Isaac for Golden Sun.
TBH if Waluigi got in, that would increase Isaac's chances substantially since both were base Assist Trophies. Do I think Isaac genuinely has a chance? Mmm, probably not. If Waluigi got in though, I'd go from a "stupidly unlikely" to a "probably not".

On the topic of "expectations" ----- fan rules get curb stomped.
Breaking the "no Assist Trophes" fanrule would be a good way to kick off FP2 with Waluigi... or Isaac... or hell even Shovel Knight as that would also break the "no indies as playable fighters" fanrule.

TBH I totally forgot about SK. Now it's between Waluigi, who would make the Internet very happy for the injustice he was given, or SK who would also make people very happy as now that opens the door for indies too. Shantae could actually have a fighting chance at that point (or hell, she could be the one to break the no indies rule).
 
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Firox

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Breaking the "no Assist Trophes" fanrule would be a good way to kick off FP2 with Waluigi... or Isaac... or hell even Shovel Knight as that would also break the "no indies as playable fighters" fanrule.
You know what? Now that you mention it, what if Isaac ended up as #6 instead of waluigi? The "AT's deconfirm" rule would still get destroyed, but I feel that Isaac's inclusion would fall more in line with the ballot results from Sm4sh. Also, it would serve as the much needed catalyst to reviving Golden Sun. I'm starting to think that Nintendo would have far more to gain strategically from such a move.
 

Polarthief

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You know what? Now that you mention it, what if Isaac ended up as #6 instead of waluigi? The "AT's deconfirm" rule would still get destroyed, but I feel that Isaac's inclusion would fall more in line with the ballot results from Sm4sh. Also, it would serve as the much needed catalyst to reviving Golden Sun. I'm starting to think that Nintendo would have far more to gain strategically from such a move.
Better get looking to see if Isaac is getting new merch like Banjo did. ;) In all seriousness, I think either would make a great DLC 6, much much better than Geno or Crash would be. I could also see Dante, but he wouldn't break rules like the others would (which are great first-pick choices since breaking more fan-rules gets more speculation which gets more hype which gets more people excited for reveals).

DISCLAIMER: After what happened yesterday, I want to say that I'm OBVIOUSLY not against Geno (my literal #1 top pick) or Crash (even though idc about him), I'm just saying, once again, they would be bad *FIRST* picks for the DLC pack. Both are fairly "expected" and don't break any rules. Waluigi and Isaac have abandoned a lot of hope after they were shunted to Assist Trophy status. Those would be very unexpected and yet still very requested characters. Sakurai is also fully aware that people want Waluigi after he was shown off in the direct as an AT.
 
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MarioRaccoon

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I think that at least the first 3 characters of this fighter pass should be big enough in order to encourage people to buy it. I mean, we have already spent $60 for the base game, plus $25 more for the first FP. They want me to spend another $30 for more DLC content ? Thats a lot of money for a videogame. Give me a good reason Nintendo to do it.
 

Rohanx17

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You know what? Now that you mention it, what if Isaac ended up as #6 instead of waluigi? The "AT's deconfirm" rule would still get destroyed, but I feel that Isaac's inclusion would fall more in line with the ballot results from Sm4sh. Also, it would serve as the much needed catalyst to reviving Golden Sun. I'm starting to think that Nintendo would have far more to gain strategically from such a move.
This is an interesting topic because supposedly the answer the ambassador got for their being no isaac was that they wanted to focus on active franchises and if he was going to get in smash he would have to get a new game first. Well it just so happens that a new golden sun trademark for a single player switch game was purchased and then finalized around last fall. If golden sun 1+2 remake xenoblade DE style is one of fatman's "mysterious 7 remakes" (most of which he said were franchise revivals) I think Isaac has a very real chance of pulling this off, more so than waluigi actually imo, if AT upgrades are in fact something the smash team wants to do.
 
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Firox

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This is an interesting topic because supposedly the answer the ambassador got for their being no isaac was that they wanted to foucs on active franchises and if he was going to get in smash he would have to get a new game first. Well it just so happens that a new golden sun trademark for a single player switch game was purchased and then finalized around last fall. If golden sun 1+2 remake xenoblade style is one of fatman's "mysterious 7 remakes" (most of which he were franchise revivals) I think Isaac has a very real chance of pulling this off, more so than waluigi actually imo, if AT upgrades are in fact something the smash team wants to do.
HOLY ****, boys and girls! I think we just read the tea leaves here! If we got an HD remake of Golden Sun AND Isaac in Smash I would soil myself with joy!
 

JarBear

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Hmmm, interesting development. Could we get 4 promotions?

Dear lord need some kind of Direct. Give us some news. What will the pass look like Nintendo!

Need Geno.
 

Firox

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Hmmm, interesting development. Could we get 4 promotions?

Dear lord need some kind of Direct. Give us some news. What will the pass look like Nintendo!

Need Geno.
Yup, the Starvation Strategy™ is already working its magic. Thanks, Nintendo.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I wish I could have any hope for Isaac like some of you guys do. At the most, I think MAYBE if Sakurai blesses us with a third pass. Geno is about as far as I'm willing to hope
 
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JarBear

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Yup, the Starvation Strategy™ is already working its magic. Thanks, Nintendo.
Not going to lie, this was the first thing I thought of from your post in regards to this strategy and Nintendo ...

giphy.gif
 
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Nicnac

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OK, so I've played Byleth for a bit and I'm super duper disappointed with how they play, and it's got me a bit shook on "what if I hate how Geno plays (if he gets in)". I would try to main Geno if he got in but if his playstyle just didn't mesh with mine I'd be sad.
 

OffBi

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What if we get 4 bonus characters like in this post bellow? Then Isaac, Geno and Waluigi could fit there perfectly!
hmmmm.PNG
 

Bee Card

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Just found this screenshot on reddit, yep, Geno confirmed guys :troll: :



https://www.reddit.com/r/Mario/comments/evrqdi/mario_prepare_yourself_for_the_great_beyond/

What if we get 4 bonus characters like in this post bellow? Then Isaac, Geno and Waluigi could fit there perfectly!
View attachment 260186
I always thought that Geno will come without stages. Idk for 4 new characters but I think that it could be the case so the whole roster select screen would be a perfect square without empty space lol.
 
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JarBear

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I decided to update the profile pic for a bit in honor of the top two well received DLC fighters.

This is more for parody for a bit and then go back to good ole Geno ... or add the hat to this.
 

Icewolff92

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If there is any first party charachter in this fighterspass (dissclaimer, I don't see Geno as one even with the Mario tie-ins) its gonna be Sylux and/or the legendary bear from the upcomming Pokemon DLC. Adding Waluigi would hurt more than benefit, because if you add him, assist thropies supports would just get their hopes crushed yet again. It would be idiotic too add him and this is coming from someone that feels Waluigi is underused
 
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ForsakenM

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So I planned on waiting until the next Direct before posting here again but there is a chance with my new job that it may be affected on how quick I can be here after the Direct and I may not even be able to see it as soon as it drops. Regardless, I'm glad we've finally moved away from all the bad arguments with faulty logic and evidence because honestly it was just grueling to read this thread and knowing that I wanted to call it all out but that there was literally no point.

Main reason I'm here is to add my two cents to Fatmanonice Fatmanonice and his Smash reveal speculation.

First off, this man deserves the credit for laying out something that I think a lot of us people like he and myself who like to find patterns in things have done. I've said it personally with IRL friends multiple times but I feel like it's understand in the Smash community that Smash reveals always start strong, then they ****ing explode but end weakly cuz the load has already been blown and Smash runs out of pump and goes full chump after about three to four reveals.

However, I disagree with Fatman on who would be the best choice for FP6. If you want to start strong but not play your aces, I feel like Waluigi is much more of a Wild Card than an Ace. Sure, he's loved and all, but the controversy around him and the fact that you picked him over other ATs like Isaac, Skullkid or Shovel Knight could just as easily cause bad waves. When you think about that and realize that the Smash community is currently still stuck between '**** you Sakurai and Nintendo, I'm not buying your new pass. Will probably just be 6 more FE characters, what a joke!' and 'Sigh, you know what, I really couldn't care less who it is. Hit me with it Sakurai, I just want a new character.' that tells me that a Waluigi reveal in as early as February would be extra dicey and could pan out with a lot of people protesting the Fighter's Pass. This is the day and age for online mobs and cancel culture after all.

I think that Ryu Hayabusa fits much better as a strong but not an Ace reveal. Think about it.

He's one of the last NES icons left not in Smash that can be in Smash, they have yet to do a true proper ninja character (WHERE'S MY IZUNA DROP!), he can have both old school and new school outfits if they desire to appeal to classic and newer fans, and he's been talked about but while not many are asking for him he's also not really a hated pick and many people think he would be a decent edition.

Idk, Ryu Hayabusa just fits an opener to me way better than Waluigi ever could. To me, Waluigi fits an Isabelle-like reveal where it looks like we are getting a new Mario game like Odyssey 2 or something but Waluigi comes in with Wario to mess things up and before the fight breaks out Luigi remembers something and hands something to Waluigi that we can't quite see until we see him freak out with true joy and then we get his splash screen and gameplay...only to have the new 3D Mario still be announced afterwards.

Just my two cents though.

I always thought that Geno will come without stages. Idk for 4 new characters but I think that it could be the case so the whole roster select screen would be a perfect square without empty space lol.
Smash has had even rosters and stage screens in the past, so this really holds no weight.
 
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Dynamic Worlok

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ForsakenM ForsakenM I'm still not sold on ryu hayabusa. I think waluigi would be a way better pick because that'll break speculation wide open and decimate one of the big fan rules. Also hayabusa just flat out doesn't interest me. I know he's an nes icon.. But I also don't care.
 

MattX20

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ForsakenM ForsakenM I'm still not sold on ryu hayabusa. I think waluigi would be a way better pick because that'll break speculation wide open and decimate one of the big fan rules. Also hayabusa just flat out doesn't interest me. I know he's an nes icon.. But I also don't care.
We already just had fan rules decimated by Byleth, and frankly, as I've said in the past, I'd rather see Isaac from Golden Sun be the upgraded AT given it's a new IP that doesn't have a playable rep and Isaac's earth-based magic could provide some very interesting moveset potential. Plus, have you ever listened to Isaac's battle theme? That would sound amazing in remixed or orchestrated form. He and Geno would be great spirit/AT promotions
 

ForsakenM

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ForsakenM ForsakenM I'm still not sold on ryu hayabusa. I think waluigi would be a way better pick because that'll break speculation wide open and decimate one of the big fan rules. Also hayabusa just flat out doesn't interest me. I know he's an nes icon.. But I also don't care.
This is exactly why I think he'd be a better pick for FP6: he's safe, but also strong, yet not Geno or Crash strong.

Remember, this is based off the pattern of Smash starting strong, then hitting CRAZY hard in the middle, then petering off to setup for the next strong hit.

Ryu Hayabusa is solid and strong while Waluigi could easily cause enough chaos to bring back Mark Hamill's voice out of retirement for even just a moment.

This is less about who I want to see and who I think is the best and most likely pick based off this pattern, though I am rooting for Hayabusa for a bud of mine.
 

pinshadow

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As someone who's super down with him and loves Ninja Gaiden Black, starting with Ryu would be like starting with Terry. He's niche, hasn't even had a mainline game since 2012 (which sucked), hes not really highly requested, and I feel one of the main reasons he even keeps coming up is that people think he's likely, not because they particularly want him. Ryu isn't hype enough to start a pass.
 

ForsakenM

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As someone who's super down with him and loves Ninja Gaiden Black, starting with Ryu would be like starting with Terry. He's niche, hasn't even had a mainline game since 2012 (which sucked), hes not really highly requested, and I feel one of the main reasons he even keeps coming up is that people think he's likely, not because they particularly want him. Ryu isn't hype enough to start a pass.
Who would you propose then?

Crash is an Ace. Waluigi is a Wild Card. Lloyd suffers from Byleth's reception. Geno could work but peopel are convinced he's an Ace.
 

AugustusB

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Honestly it is tough to think who the first fighter is gonna be. I will agree that Ryu H is a pretty big pick, but I do not see them as the 1st.

If you want to give people an initiative to buy the pass out right, might as well start with an Ace.

Crash would be a pretty strong start.
Geno would shatter the fan rule of "Spirits Deconfirm" once and for all.

These two, make sense to me personally, but am curious to see who it is.
 
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pinshadow

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Who would you propose then?

Crash is an Ace. Waluigi is a Wild Card. Lloyd suffers from Byleth's reception. Geno could work but peopel are convinced he's an Ace.
I'm still sticking with the relatively safe idea that whoever we're starting with is from a company that already has stuff in Smash, it just makes sense that they would be easier to negotiate with and start development on first. Pretty much leaves me flip flopping between Geno and Dante with the Namco characters off to the side. Honestly, it depends on when they reveal Fighter 6. If its at the next direct, I think Geno. If they are insane enough to wait until E3, then its Dante and Geno is 7.
 

Dynamic Worlok

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This is exactly why I think he'd be a better pick for FP6: he's safe, but also strong, yet not Geno or Crash strong.

Remember, this is based off the pattern of Smash starting strong, then hitting CRAZY hard in the middle, then petering off to setup for the next strong hit.

Ryu Hayabusa is solid and strong while Waluigi could easily cause enough chaos to bring back Mark Hamill's voice out of retirement for even just a moment.

This is less about who I want to see and who I think is the best and most likely pick based off this pattern, though I am rooting for Hayabusa for a bud of mine.
I really don't see him as that strong a start. He seems like such a meh character it'd be hard to not go "ok, next."
 

Giga Kaiju

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Well, Byleth came out. The character plays fun. When the character gets a hit in, it feels great, you feel in control but man, are they slow.

If a combo-happy character gets it's hands on you, you're in trouble. But at the same time, I managed to get some good setups. Byleth HAS potential. Time will tell.

Haven't given the Mii Costumes a try but I'll get to them (make my own) eventually. Cuphead looks nice even if some people disagree that his model doesn't look like a 2D character. Oh well, still cool.

FINALLY, the spirits I've been missing of Daemon X Machina AND Tetris are here. Back to complete collection, excluding the FE spirits. All is good now.

Also, we got buffs. My boy Cloud is good again, he plays fantastically now. And from what I have seen, others like Zelda, Samus, etc. Got one too. Online will be interesting to see play out now.

Overall, a good patch. And DLC content being alright. Hopefully it keeps up and we get our wanted characters one day.

:bowser::starman:.
 

Lyncario

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Who would you propose then?

Crash is an Ace. Waluigi is a Wild Card. Lloyd suffers from Byleth's reception. Geno could work but peopel are convinced he's an Ace.
Dante would be an amazing pass starter. He's like Joker, but he's more wanted. Also bang bang bang pull my Devil trigger.
 
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