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If you include the amount of money FEH has made, Fire Emblem would be in the 30 million category on that list if not higher (it has made $500 million by this point last year).
People don't have to like Fire Emblem, but all the "Mario or Zelda would have been a better choice" complaints are dumb. At this point, FIre Emblem is one of Nintendo's biggest modern financial pillars, really only behind Pokemon and Animal Crossing.
FE is popular, but it is not in the league of a lot of other franchises in Smash, even in Japan, so I don't get why it needs to have the 2nd most amount of reps compared to franchises like Zelda and Kirby.
If you include the amount of money FEH has made, Fire Emblem would be in the 30 million category on that list if not higher (it has made $500 million by this point last year).
People don't have to like Fire Emblem, but all the "Mario or Zelda would have been a better choice" complaints are dumb. At this point, FIre Emblem is one of Nintendo's biggest modern financial pillars, really only behind Pokemon and Animal Crossing.
Honestly, I am not going to complain as much about Nintendo characters in a Nintendo game. Now when Nintendo adds obscure 3rd parties over stronger 3rd party picks, that is annoying. Still, I think most of the hate over Fire Emblem can be summed up below:
Legend of Zelda: 6 characters (3 characters are various versions of Link)
Donkey Kong Series: 3 characters
Kirby Series: 3 characters
Pikmin Series: 1 character
Animal Crossing Series: 2 characters
Fire Emblem Series: 8 characters
You can't argue that Donkey Kong, LoZ, Kirby, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc. are not MORE POPULAR than FE yet FE is way oversaturated compared to those series. I think that is what is driving the anger. I don't care that much. Byleth looks fun.
You can't argue that Donkey Kong, LoZ, Kirby, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc. are not MORE POPULAR than FE yet FE is way oversaturated compared to those series. I think that is what is driving the anger. I don't care that much. Byleth looks fun.
Literally Animal Crossing is the only one on that list more popular if we take the last generation and a half into account. Yes, even Zelda isn't the monetary titan that is Fire Emblem Heroes, at least not any individual game.
Edit: Really, even Animal Crossing might fall short. We might have to combine Pocket Camp, New Leaf and a bunch of external stuff like merchandising to see how it stacks up.
It definitely doesn't speak highly of Byleth when people defend him by saying 'Hey, we're getting six more characters! Be happy!' That's explicitly admitting that Byleth is lackluster.
'Hey, you didn't get the job you needed, but you didn't get hit with a meteor! Be happy!'
Problem was that that was live, directly a response to seeing the reveal unfiltered. No time to collect his thoughts, no time to think things through, no time to be annoyed, get over it and move on, no time to realize it's not the end of the world. It was the true initial reaction, which admittedly a bunch of people probably also had. They just have the benefit of their reaction not being recorded and shown to the world (of course his choice). They could rage in private and later claim to others 'Eh, I was only slightly annoyed' and no one could call them out on that.
Maybe he'll say something later after calming down, but that's the risk of a reaction video.
Seeing the NY Nintendo reaction on this? It was quiet, to the point of creepy. You could easily hear the TV, which is almost impossible on the other videos. Compared to Banjo where they lost their minds just off the jiggy.
Hey guys, it's been a while. After the dumpster fire that was the Game Awards, I took a break from speculation since I was burned out. But to sum up my thoughts on everything that has transpired, I got my hopes up for Doomguy thanks to Poster theory, turned out to be someone I hate and one of the worst inclusions in Smash history AKA Byleth (no hate to his/her fans), and I'm pretty bitter as a result. Until I see who is Fighter #6 and beyond, I will probably stay bitter for quite a while.
Anyway, still really want Doomguy and Crash and I'm rooting for you guys to get Geno, but I REALLY don't have a lot of confidence right now.
I answered no, but I didn’t see it at the time I don’t think + I didn’t know who he was, either. Tbh I only got the first pack that included Lucas, Ryu and Roy, too.
I've gotta say, if you set a precedent that you're willing to allocate dev time and resources for the sole purpose of being spiteful to parts of your fanbase, that seems woefully petty. It's really not a good look.
It is petty, but so was the whole anti-Corrin hatebase during the end of Smash 4 and even now. They are still earning a ton of money regardless, which at the bottom line is the most important concern for Nintendo.
All they really need to do is start season 2 with a big name; and I'm pretty sure everyone but the most hardcore haters will mostly forget about the salt Byleth generated.
And I'm with Fatman on this; Fighter 6 will be revealed at the next direct (though I don't think it is Waluigi).
Literally Animal Crossing is the only one on that list more popular if we take the last generation and a half into account. Yes, even Zelda isn't the monetary titan that is Fire Emblem Heroes, at least not any individual game.
Edit: Really, even Animal Crossing might fall short. We might have to combine Pocket Camp, New Leaf and a bunch of external stuff like merchandising to see how it stacks up.
Literally Animal Crossing is the only one on that list more popular if we take the last generation and a half into account. Yes, even Zelda isn't the monetary titan that is Fire Emblem Heroes, at least not any individual game.
Edit: Really, even Animal Crossing might fall short. We might have to combine Pocket Camp, New Leaf and a bunch of external stuff like merchandising to see how it stacks up.
???? Ugh... what planet are you on? Did you not hear of something called Breath of the Wild. It is probably the most popular game on Switch after Smash Ultimate.
Sadly I think if you guys get in you will be the next "literal who" and "no one cares" character in the complaints of the general Smash fandom (though do you have not being an FE fighter going for you LOL) Good luck guys. I'm not a full supporter but I feel like if Geno was getting in any time, it'd be in this DLC pack.
Hey guys, it's been a while. After the dumpster fire that was the Game Awards, I took a break from speculation since I was burned out. But to sum up my thoughts on everything that has transpired, I got my hopes up for Doomguy thanks to Poster theory, turned out to be someone I hate and one of the worst inclusions in Smash history AKA Byleth (no hate to his/her fans), and I'm pretty bitter as a result. Until I see who is Fighter #6 and beyond, I will probably stay bitter for quite a while.
Anyway, still really want Doomguy and Crash and I'm rooting for you guys to get Geno, but I REALLY don't have a lot of confidence right now.
I’m still holding out hope myself on the Cacomallow leak. Others are letting it go but I honestly can’t. I don’t think we’ve had a leak so seemingly real in a long time. Even if its not Doomguy we have to be getting a Bethesda rep. Im not concerned over those Ubisoft miis since they already had some content in the game. I doubt Bethesda would get in now just for 2-3 miis
???? Ugh... what planet are you on? Did you not hear of something called Breath of the Wild. It is probably the most popular game on Switch after Smash Ultimate.
I was talking about revenue generated, not sales, and I was also talking about recently (as in post-wii generations). FEH could very well be at a billion by this point after nearly 3 years, which is the equivalent of almost 17 million copies sold at standard retail price. Add that to the 3 mil from 3 houses and you get 20 mil. With BOTW and LA, Zelda is a bit under that.
Edit: FE also has Warriors which did 1 million. Also Shadows of Valentia, but I'm pretty sure that bombed.
I don't know about Kirby (They adore the little fluffball to the point that they recently open a Kirby cafe there which Sakurai visited recently), but it is certainly bigger than Zelda over in Japan yes
Breath of the Wild was literally the launch title that sold the Switch. As stated, it is perhaps the biggest game on Switch. I linked an actual article with numbers. FE had a messily 8 million sales compared to 97 million for Zelda. Facts are facts. Don't know what world you are on. LOZ is far more dominate than FE. It is not enough debatebly.
Legend of Zelda is like a Power 5, SEC Football team while Fire Emblem is a Sunbelt team.
I don't know about Kirby (They adore the little fluffball to the point that they recently open a Kirby cafe there which Sakurai visited recently), but it is certainly bigger than Zelda over in Japan yes
Do we have any insight on Kirby merchandising over there? The games have never been massive sellers, though Clash could certainly be making more money than I'm aware of. I can't imagine it comes even close to FEH though.
Me personally, I'm hoping to get hyped by the end of the DLC season. I feel selfish and immature for saying that because the base roster was enough, but if Sakurai keeps going, I suppose it's fair game for me to insert my thoughts.
I guess I was expecting more mainstream characters? I dont know, I feel like bringing in gaming giants like they did with Sonic, Megaman, and Cloud is what really gets me hype. Outside of Banjo, I'm just not interested in the DLC selection sadly. They're all great characters in their own regard, but they just aren't for me. For someone whose never played Persona, DQ, SNK, or a FE game that's not Awakening, the DLC cycle has just been a bit lackluster for me.
But like I said before... Every DLC character (with the exception of Banjo & Kazooie) is from franchises he has openly stated that he is a fan of one way or another. Maybe that's something worth keeping in mind going forward in the speculation?
Do we have any insight on Kirby merchandising over there? The games have never been massive sellers, though Clash could certainly be making more money than I'm aware of. I can't imagine it comes even close to FEH though.
Breath of the Wild was literally the launch title that sold the Switch. As stated, it is perhaps the biggest game on Switch. I linked an actual article with numbers. FE had a messily 8 million sales compared to 97 million for Zelda. Facts are facts. Don't know what world you are on. LOZ is far more dominate than FE. It is not enough debatebly.
Legend of Zelda is like a Power 5, SEC Football team while Fire Emblem is a Sunbelt team.
We're arguing completely different metrics here. 8 million sales for main games means nothing when it's biggest entity has made as much as double that. I'm also not arguing longevity, I'm arguing current. You throw out Donkey Kong, but the bulk of that 58 million came from before a lot of the people in this thread were born. Fire Emblem as a viable franchise is very recent and it was straight up on the chopping block before Awakening. It's not going to suddenly die especially with FEH being a crazy money pool that will probably go another decade at least. Even if growth remains stagnant, it'll be the equivalent of a 50 million selling franchise by this time 3 or so years from now.
Well, lemme try and take a stab at my timeline for how I think the rest of this DLC will play out (I'm probably being overly optimistic here but meh). I'm slightly more confident in my picks then I am their reveal order.
1. Hayabusa (February 2020)
2: Geno (E3 2020)
3. Dante (September 2020
4. Rayman (February 2021)
5. Lloyd (E3 2021)
6. Monster Hunter (September 2021)
Well, lemme try and take a stab at my timeline for how I think the rest of this DLC will play out (I'm probably being overly optimistic here but meh). I'm slightly more confident in my picks then I am their reveal order.
1. Hayabusa (February 2020)
2: Geno (E3 2020)
3. Dante (September 2020
4. Rayman (February 2021)
5. Lloyd (E3 2021)
6. Monster Hunter (September 2021)
This'll probably be my final post for the night. Is anyone else in it for the long run with Geno?
I still got hope. 6 characters. I know some of you guys are feeling drained from supporting Geno for so long, some even dropped out altogether, but I figured I've already waited for years, might as well see how it all ends. And if he doesn't make it in, I'm throwing in the towel for good. I'm sorry to sound morbid, but to me, Ultimate is Geno's last shot unless an unlikely miracle strikes a future game.
Can I just say, as a massive FE fan who is ecstatic about Byleth, I completely understand why people are upset about it. I would definitely argue there are plenty of reasons the spot is deserved, but when it comes down to it, it's been made very clear for a long time that Byleth is essentially the most hated character in speculation. And Sakurai obviously knew this considering he prefaced the trailer with "I hope there are no hard feelings". I may not understand that hate, but I imagine this reaction is similar to what mine would be if we got Minecraft Steve, so I won't judge. I can definitely understand the feeling of Byleth being out of place and being dissapointing to fans who were expecting a hype 3rd party. I'll be celebrating personally, but I hope people don't act like jerks about it too much because it's undeniable that Byleth was always an unpopular choice.
I don’t really understand the phenomenon of people coming into this thread specifically to let us all know how much they loved Byleth and how people here are being “toxic” for saying we didn’t absolutely love this decision. Having a critically negative opinion isn’t in and of itself toxic. Sometimes people don’t like things. Not everyone has to like every choice made for this game. No one here is screeching “It shoulda been Geno”. If anything people are satisfied with cacomallow living to fight another day, and Geno not getting mii’d.
Also as disappointing as this character is to me personally I have to admit it’s very funny that after months of diehard speculation, doxxing, and sabi/verg getting btfo the final character with so much buildup was a FE rep and not even the 3 houses rep that most proponents wanted (Edelgard).
Sadly I think if you guys get in you will be the next "literal who" and "no one cares" character in the complaints of the general Smash fandom (though do you have not being an FE fighter going for you LOL) Good luck guys. I'm not a full supporter but I feel like if Geno was getting in any time, it'd be in this DLC pack.
This'll probably be my final post for the night. Is anyone else in it for the long run with Geno?
I still got hope. 6 characters. I know some of you guys are feeling drained from supporting Geno for so long, some even dropped out altogether, but I figured I've already waited for years, might as well see how it all ends. And if he doesn't make it in, I'm throwing in the towel for good. I'm sorry to sound morbid, but to me, Ultimate is Geno's last shot unless an unlikely miracle strikes a future game.
As I've said before. Sakurai himself could come to my door and deliver a personalized telegram stating that he will never add geno to smash and I'll be there next direct going "where's geno, though?"
Honestly, I am not going to complain as much about Nintendo characters in a Nintendo game. Now when Nintendo adds obscure 3rd parties over stronger 3rd party picks, that is annoying. Still, I think most of the hate over Fire Emblem can be summed up below:
Legend of Zelda: 6 characters (3 characters are various versions of Link)
Donkey Kong Series: 3 characters
Kirby Series: 3 characters
Pikmin Series: 1 character
Animal Crossing Series: 2 characters
Fire Emblem Series: 8 characters
You can't argue that Donkey Kong, LoZ, Kirby, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc. are not MORE POPULAR than FE yet FE is way oversaturated compared to those series. I think that is what is driving the anger. I don't care that much. Byleth looks fun.
The problem with this argument is it solely takes into account the sales/popularity of the franchise and not the franchise itself. Literally every single game that you listed has, for the most part, a small group of recurring characters every single game that make up the bulk of the “main cast”, and those largely are represented in Smash already. Meanwhile, Fire Emblem is a franchise that has 17 entries with each one having 20+ playable units each, meaning that the Fire Emblem franchise is more comparable to Pokémon in scope than it would be to the other franchises.
Now I’m not saying that other franchises you listed don’t have room for additional characters, (namely Dixie, Bandana Waddle Dee, Tom Nook, Alph as his own character, etc.), but they have their core casts represented overall pretty well in the game, whereas Three Houses, this mega blockbuster hit title from a Nintendo franchise that is rapidly becoming a major A-lister for the company, had absolutely no playable representation at all. You still play as Link in Breath of the Wild and rescue Zelda from Ganon, every Animal Crossing game has you play as a villager as opposed to, say, playing as K.K. Slider for a single entry, Kirby and Donkey Kong are the protagonists of most of their entries with a decent amount of theIr combined secondary playable characters/recurring rival characters represented in the game already, blah blah blah. You get the picture; Fire Emblem is in a unique situation, and you can’t just look at sales and popularity in a vacuum.
The more I think about Byeleth the more I think about how most of my disappointment stems from when they were released. As much ******** as I may have done and may still do in the future, I appreciate Sakurai trying to make them stand out compared to other FE characters. Def one of the better characters, more like Ike Marth and Robin, less like Chrom and Luciana.
So, now that we are about halfway thru January, and we've had two major Nintendo presentations already... Are there still any bets towards there being an actual Nintendo Direct this month? Or do ya'll think we're too far along for there to be one in the usual timeframe, and we'll be heading into February before we see anything else?
And, on that note.... What are the chances, do you think, that we will get our first peek at DLC #6 in the next big Nintendo Direct? Do you think those chances have gotten higher, or lower, based on how things transpired towards the end of the Byleth presentation?
Alright now that FP1 is over, give your report cards.
Joker - A+
One of the best Smash reveals ever, it sits right alongside Solid Snake from E3 2006. Persona is one of my favorite series today and I never would have thought we would see it in Smash Bros. He's really fun to play as, and my only real complaint is that the P5 Mementos is kind of hard on the eyes. Yellow and Blue are much nicer colors for the stage.
Hero - A+
The least hidden reveal ever. We knew about Erdrick since like the game launch and the first half of 2019 was nonstop discussion about him. The big surprise was that we got my favorite DQ Hero in Solo, but unfortunately lost Sofia and Femdrick. Loved the reveal, and the stage. The character is wacky to play as and all his spells are transitioned perfectly from the turn based DQ series.
Banjo - B+
This was one of the final frontiers of megasmash request (along with Ridley, Isaac(rip), K.Rool, and Geno), so its always cool to see one of those get in. However unlike the previous two DLC characters... I never had that much attachment to the series. I enjoyed BK back in the day, but it was never my favorite N64 game. The character is fun to play as, the music is great, but my GOD is Spiral Mountain an awful stage.
Terry - B-
Never played KoF or Fatal Fury or Samurai Showdown or any SNK fighter. However you can see a lot of love was poured into him; the Sakurai presentation of this was the best yet. Great music but the stage is forgettable. Character is pretty weird to play. Not sure I like command inputs in Smash Bros. I enjoy traditional fighters but doing charge moves in Smash is just unwieldy.
Byleth - D
Honestly, this pick does nothing for me. I really don't care about Byleth at all. Putting a D right now, may move to D+ or maybe even a C if I like the character and stage.
Overall
A- Only real miss for me was Byleth who is just a weird addition.
Welp, after an entire day after watching the presentation, getting ready for work, being at work and getting here and catching up with the thread, finally.
BOI.
Where do I even start?! There was quite a bit of stuff going from the entire day. First of all obvious: Byleth. Guys, literally the first reaction I had when I saw the mini screen of the presentation and being spoiled by it (not that it matters considering the circumstances) and seeing the renders I was like: "...oh... really? Come on..." I could literally feel how I deflated from mild interest in learning what character would close out the first pass to disappointment. Not anger, but disappointment. I thought Nintendo wouldn't pull a 'SM4SH DLC'.
Amazing.
Guess like how I've seen people comment in this thread alone (Haven't seen other places YET but I can already tell~) in life there are constants and one of them is a new chilled Fire Emblem character being added to Smash. Hehe. It should become a part of things to think about every time (if Smash continues to exist that is) is that Fire Emblem will get something. Trophy/Spirit/AT/Character. Anything.
The presentation left us with other things as well like Byleth being kind of ok character playable wise. He/she has a decent amount (surprise to no one) if attention alongside the stage and the music. At least there were some things that were addressed like he/she not being "just a Swordfighter". Byleth has lots of weapons/moves. It's just the initial look that was meh but when you stop and look into the character then it isn't that too bad. Not a FE fan but I am in that "group" that is willing to give a character a chance if they look cool/play ok.
I do feel terrible for Rex/Pyra fans though. I understand that there was no way of knowing then that the character missed the opportunity to join due to being "too new" yet Byleth...OUCH.
Oh well, life happens I guess. I am so-so/ok with Byleth but I am not "excited" if that makes sense. I already got my wanted characters with the exception of Geno and Doomguy/Doom Slayer but we'll get to that in the future, hopefully.
As points to bring up:
1.- Mii Costumes are as always, appreciated. Megamen are here, about time. Assassin's Creed got some attention, as "Altair", hehe but still. Rabbids are in Smash, look funny. And...
2.- Cuphead. Oh god, Cuphead looks SO GOOD. For moments it seems like the ACTUAL CHARACTER joined the game and that's a good thing. Mii Costumes getting much deserved attention than before. Sans, Cuphead, Skull Kid and Ray MK III are some of the best looking Mii Costumes in the game, easily. Props to the dev team.
3.- FP2 it's official. That's how the new batch of DLC will be named and it's fine. We'll have more characters to look out for in awhile. 6 to be exact and until next year? This might be the very last batch of characters. But there's also the possibility that we may get more. A very small chance but still.
4.- Geno and Doomguy/Doom Slayer live another day. That's always a plus.
5.- If what I read it's true and first fighter of FP2 is near then there's that to look out for. Maybe~
Overall the presentation was...a thing. Yeah, let's call it that. It definitely made people talk and I'm sure with this speculation might change with what happened (fanrules, sheananigans and stuff).
I apologize for the long post as I am not used to write this much in a cellphone (ugh) but I figured to share my thoughts somewhere to get them off my mind. It helped to ease it. I have other things to bring up but I'm sure they'll be bring up by other people it in due time with how long we'll wait, will be discussed.
Alright now that FP1 is over, give your report cards.
Joker - A+
One of the best Smash reveals ever, it sits right alongside Solid Snake from E3 2006. Persona is one of my favorite series today and I never would have thought we would see it in Smash Bros. He's really fun to play as, and my only real complaint is that the P5 Mementos is kind of hard on the eyes. Yellow and Blue are much nicer colors for the stage.
Hero - A+
The least hidden reveal ever. We knew about Erdrick since like the game launch and the first half of 2019 was nonstop discussion about him. The big surprise was that we got my favorite DQ Hero in Solo, but unfortunately lost Sofia and Femdrick. Loved the reveal, and the stage. The character is wacky to play as and all his spells are transitioned perfectly from the turn based DQ series.
Banjo - B+
This was one of the final frontiers of megasmash request (along with Ridley, Isaac(rip), K.Rool, and Geno), so its always cool to see one of those get in. However unlike the previous two DLC characters... I never had that much attachment to the series. I enjoyed BK back in the day, but it was never my favorite N64 game. The character is fun to play as, the music is great, but my GOD is Spiral Mountain an awful stage.
Terry - B-
Never played KoF or Fatal Fury or Samurai Showdown or any SNK fighter. However you can see a lot of love was poured into him; the Sakurai presentation of this was the best yet. Great music but the stage is forgettable. Character is pretty weird to play. Not sure I like command inputs in Smash Bros. I enjoy traditional fighters but doing charge moves in Smash is just unwieldy.
Byleth - D
Honestly, this pick does nothing for me. I really don't care about Byleth at all. Putting a D right now, may move to D+ or maybe even a C if I like the character and stage.
Overall
A- Only real miss for me was Byleth who is just a weird addition.
Joker - D
Hero - D+
Banjo - A+
Terry - C
Byleth - F
Yeah my tastes aren't really varied but I just did not care about most of these choices. Banjo was one of my most wanted and I bought the pass when he was announced. Banjo was barely worth the 25 dollars to me and I will be extra careful with the second pass.
Joker - D
Hero - D+
Banjo - A+
Terry - C
Byleth - F
Yeah my tastes aren't really varied but I just did not care about most of these choices. Banjo was one of my most wanted and I bought the pass when he was announced. Banjo was barely worth the 25 dollars to me and I will be extra careful with the second pass.
>Sakurai mentions in the stream that the recording took place back in November
>Coincidentally that Mallow/Cacodemon clip was also released back in November too
It may not be much, but it's something I noticed and wanted to point out.
.
