Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Droodle]

I doubt we'll get an AT promoted in the same game(Spirits are significantly more likely), but I can't write off possibilities that can actually happen.

There's no rule or statement by Sakurai, so just constantly saying Sakurai said so in more than one way is pointless. No, it doesn't work that way. You can doubt it, but there's no legitimate evidence that proves it's impossible. It's a waste of time to dismiss it entirely. It cannot be backed up. Being skeptical makes sense. Taking pointless extremes doesn't make for an actual valid argument.

Consider the fact we've had DLC once so far. Smash 4. That means there's no way to use that as a pattern to what could happen. Remember that Ultimate has a completely different design being followed. Waluigi could happen(I can be doubtful, but I see no evidence of it never happening in this game), though it'd obviously be post-pass if ever. Sakurai does change his mind given enough time. The only thing that matters is if the fan demand helps him see a workable moveset. He is not going to conform to pointless fanrules for the sake of it. His only real rule is, get this, no non-game 3rd party characters(due to licensing).

Also, Banjo-Kazooie was completely relevant with Rare Replay being a huge advertised thing(and has been for years on end). He never lacked relevancy during the time he was added to Smash. K. Rool definitely did, though. Last thing at most was a Smash 4 costume. But hasn't been pushed at all otherwise. He was underused too, only showing up in Mario Sports spin-offs. Sad, too, but different team behind the new DKC seems to be the case, but I forget why they aren't using him. At least Microsoft is outright using one of the old (used to be)Nintendo Mascots.

I think Chrom kicks most rules regarding promotions out. You have a guy who's a character in another fighters final smash as well as victory animations get his own fighter.

The question now isn't "can they promote ATs/Spirits/Mii costumes?"

It's "Will they promote Ats/Spirits/Mii costumes:.

 

[AdamBel731]

What, I’m not allowed to inform multiple fan bases? I can only tell one characters fanbase their character is being slandered to a large audience? I thought I was being fair in letting others know about their character, but hey, I guess posting in this thread specifically was a mistake.

...except if you actually watch the video, JWittz isn't slandering any character. As I've said multiple times, almost every character on the list he either likes and/or loves their games. What he said in the video is the opposite of slandering. But shoot first ask questions later, I guess.

It just seems like you wanted people to go after him and/or are stoking fires unecessarily, because if you watched the video he even said if any of the characters got in he'd be happy for their fans.

Edit: Now you're revising your position to say you're just joking. You edited your comment to say you were joking to make people going against you look like sensitive babies. Pick a lane dude, are you informing people of "slander," or are "joking?"

 

[Mushroomguy12]

That's a bit much. The dude just said he wasn't up for Geno in Smash, and at the end of the video he said that if any of the 10 got in, he'd laugh it off and be happy for those who wanted their character, that isn't slander. I get that you may want to talk about the video, but calling the guy a heathen witch (though that is pretty funny) and asking people to brigade his video doesn't line up with the "I'm just giving people information" angle you're talking from.

He has over a million subscribers I highly doubt a couple dozen people from a Smashboards thread is going to put a dent in that 90% like ratio.

When you have such a large audience like that making a list of characters you don’t want will affect the perception of the character for a large amount of impressionable viewers, no matter how diplomatic you want to be.

...except if you actually watch the video, JWittz isn't slandering any character. As I've said multiple times, almost every character on the list he either likes and/or loves their games. What he said in the video is the opposite of slandering. But shoot first ask questions later, I guess.

It just seems like you wanted people to go after him and/or are stoking fires unecessarily, because if you watched the video he even said if any of the characters got in he'd be happy for their fans.

I did watch the video thank you very much. My point is when you make videos like this and you have such an enormous audience you are asking people to go after you.

 

[SSGuy]

I agree 100% with Droodle

Anything goes with this FP, but whatever Sakurai has decided on is set in stone. We just need to hope Geno comes out on top and promoted to a fighter. We have to believe that we did all we could to make it happen and have won Sakurai's admiration enough to make it happen.

But what's done has been done and we just need to wait and keep the faith alive.

Once Geno gets in, I'm hoping to change my Meganium to have a Geno hat. It's been too long lol

 

[Spatulo]

I think Chrom kicks most rules regarding promotions out. You have a guy who's a character in another fighters final smash as well as victory animations get his own fighter.

The question now isn't "can they promote ATs/Spirits/Mii costumes?"

It's "Will they promote Ats/Spirits/Mii costumes:.

Arlo made a pretty good video about the topic of fan rules a while back and the jist of it was this.

The only rules for who can and can’t be a fighter are “Did Sakurai/Nintendo choose to make them a fighter or not?”

If they want to make a character playable, no items or costumes or moves or PNGs are gonna stop them.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

He has over a million subscribers I highly doubt a couple dozen people from a Smashboards thread is going to put a dent in that 90% like ratio.

When you have such a large audience like that making a list of characters you don’t want will affect the perception of the character for a large amount of impressionable viewers, no matter how diplomatic you want to be.

Trust me man, not many people like Geno and his supporters that much already. I doubt JWittz is gonna change anyone’s minds this late into the Smash hype cycle...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I thought I was being fair to the Geno fanbase by informing them about this, but I guess they don’t want that and would rather go about grandstanding and making mountains out of mole hills on a tongue in cheek joke. Next time I’ll ignore you guys I guess.

More like you posted the Youtuber and then slandered them that's an issue. There's nothing wrong with the video at all.

Don't attack the person who made it. Disagree with their opinions constructively instead.

I think Chrom kicks most rules regarding promotions out. You have a guy who's a character in another fighters final smash as well as victory animations get his own fighter.

The question now isn't "can they promote ATs/Spirits/Mii costumes?"

It's "Will they promote Ats/Spirits/Mii costumes:.

I don't think Chrom means anything though. The FS was super easy to stay and Chrom was already chosen as a Character immediately, during the entire selection of all but the Fighter's Pass(PP may have been slated as a bonus character immediately. It could've been base game but moved up as part of the decision. To say the least, it wouldn't be removed from the project plan either way). This seemed more like a lack of time and no reason to care about a very quick FS. This does feel closer to Spirit territory, but Chrom definitely doesn't have the impact that an AT does in gameplay. Wayyyyyyyyy less.

Though it does work in the favor of Sakurai not caring about silly NPC rules too, if that's what you mean. Cause then, yeah, I agree. He's just not a great example when it comes to the FS. There's a bit more context behind it and all. I wouldn't call it ignoring a fan rule. I'd call it "Chrom was slated to be playable. Robin has a final smash that fits into our new design model. I'm not going to waste time, energy, and resources changing something that already works." more than anything else. I doubt he even thought about the whole NPC factor in this case.

 

[MattX20]

So, how do we celebrate 2222 pages? We're only 10 pages away from it

 

[Deleted member]

JWitz has his options like everyone else let's respect them like everyone else. And move on he dosen't want these characters in that's fine.

We're a respectful fanbase that knows not everyone wants out star boy in and we can deal with that.

Let's focus on trying to continue supporting him. And if you like JWitz watch him he's a great dude that deserves the views. And yes this was controversal dosen't matter he said what he said and that's it.

 

[Organization XIII]

Honestly aside from Geno, I think it's more likely that they'll upgrade an AT then spirits. If a character wasn't seemed big enough to warrant a costume or an AT role then I don't see them being a higher priority for a new round of DLC. I think the idea devs gave characters a role like costume or AT with the intent of never being able to be DLC and making a spirit with the idea that a PNG means it won't be wasted work is flawed. They gave characters roles based on what they thought was good. If they go to reconsider roles they are now likely to pick characters they felt were worth more work in the first place. I don't doubt we will see some promotions of some type but the community I feel really underestimates ATs.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So, how do we celebrate 2222 pages? We're only 10 pages away from it

What's so special about the number 2222?

 

[OffBi]

What's so special about the number 2222?

it's two twos of two

 

[Deleted member]

Bye guys heading out to take care of some stuff. Probably taking a break myself for a bit when there's news I'll post.

Hopefully we get a Nintendo Direct soon and find what's coming up in the year and put an end to this long wait for the next fighter.

See you till then.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

............

 

[RetrogamerMax]

it's two twos of two

Welp, if Geno isn't in by the next year or two and this thread reaches page 6666 we are cursed.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Jwitzz wasn't an asshole or anything, but that was just a really bad ten characters to pick tbh. He doesn't have great taste.

 

[MattX20]

What's so special about the number 2222?

It's a number associated with angels, which Geno is considered the Marioverse equivalent of

 

[OffBi]

Lol I guess I missed the fact that the Geno fanbase’s behavior was so terrible in the past that now their trying to overcompensate and blindly kiss the feet of everyone that sh**s on this character. The way people have been responding it’s almost as if I’m the one who said I didn’t want Geno.

Go on, worship the man who said Geno was overrated and irrelevant! Go on Geno fans!

Could you not?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Edit: Now you're revising your position to say you're just joking. You edited your comment to say you were joking to make people going against you look like sensitive babies. Pick a lane dude, are you informing people of "slander," or are "joking?"
View attachment 256752

How about both?

BTW it’s OK to quote my post to actually let me you when your responding. You don’t have to take a screenshot of my comment like I’m some sort of 4chan user to be mocked on display

Could you not?

Not what? Be specific, Bob!

 

[MisterMike]

Here a difference between the two, Sakurai never actively dissed on Ridley like he does with Waluigi. Sakurai knew that people want Ridley and he admit that he wasn't sure how he could make him playable. He believed that Ridley height was what's holding him back because he wants to do the character justice like every other character, that's why he keep making him a boss because that was the best Sakurai could do at the time.

Waluigi on the other hand only has remain the same Assist Trophy throughout all of Smash Bros. Waluigi is the only character to be given this much shade when revealed as an Assist Trophy.
View attachment 256746
When they revealed that can kill Assist Trophies they used Waluigi as an example. Sakurai knows about Waluigi's demand, but never acted upon it. Heck when Sakurai said that he wanted to add in a character that isn't a hero or the main villain because doing so would be boring he chose a Piranha Plant over Waluigi who fits the character description that Sakurai wants to make.

>It's another "X character isn't a fighter in Smash so Sakurai hates them" argument
Wynn pls...

You can want a character as much as you want, make fan petitions, vote on the ballot, literally have an newspaper article dedicated to a character not making it in but if Sakurai doesn't want to make the character playable then there's nothing going to change it. Remember, Sakurai was willing to not include Pac-Man if Namco only gave Ghostly Adventure version of Pac-Man.

It's so hard to take that argument seriously when most of the characters introduced in Ultimate were added due to fan demand. Ridley got in due to fan demand, King K. Rool got in due to fan demand, Simon and Richter Belmont got in due to fan demand, Daisy, Chrom and Dark Samus got in due to fan demand, Hero got in due to fan demand, Banjo & Kazooie got in due to fan demand. I mean if I didn't know any better I'd think that fan demand has been a major factor in influencing who got into Ultimate.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Just leave already Mushroomguy12 . You arguing won't do any of us good not even yourself. You're wasting time with nonsense.

 

[FalconFire93]

Don’t pay mind to this dude. Lack of relevance is a dumb excuse to not wanting a character. Also, this dude legit don’t want Phoenix Wright because he was already in a fighting game. Ryu and Ken in Street Fighter, Terry in Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, Pac Man in Street Fighter X Tekken, Mega Man in Marvel vs Capcom, and Little Mac with the entire Punch Out series. I have no idea why he has that reason.

Also the whole “They’ve only been in one game” argument is played out too. *stares at Ice Climbers*

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Just leave already Mushroomguy12 . You arguing won't do any of us good not even yourself. You're wasting time with nonsense.

Stop replying to me then.

your dedication is admirable

View attachment 256744

Meh, I only posted that to four of the ten characters support threads. If I was truely dedicated I would have posted it to all 10, though I guess Goku doesn’t have a thread.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's easier to report people who are causing drama. Engaging does nothing. It's common they won't listen.

Plus, when they're called out by a mod and don't stop, calling them out is clearly ineffective. Just report more. The Moderation will handle it in due time. I know that sometimes it's slow to get results, but they all have lives and not all the time in the world. I wasn't on here 24/7 either, after all, back when I was a Mod.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Stop replying to me then.

Stop posting on this thread. No one here wants a flame war buddy so it's best that you leave for awhile.

 

[OffBi]

You know who i would rather have raiding this thread? Tomgaz.
At least he gets to the point pretty quick. He hates the geno fanbase and just wants to do that.
But mushroomguy here?
He actually wants us to go after a channel for having a different opinion to make the geno fanbase look bad, which is way worse than trolling.
TL;DR shut up mushroomguy

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't disagree with others' points here, but telling someone to leave has no authority unless it's from a Mod/Admin.

It's why I suggest to just report. It's more effective.

 

[SSGuy]

Honestly aside from Geno, I think it's more likely that they'll upgrade an AT then spirits. If a character wasn't seemed big enough to warrant a costume or an AT role then I don't see them being a higher priority for a new round of DLC. I think the idea devs gave characters a role like costume or AT with the intent of never being able to be DLC and making a spirit with the idea that a PNG means it won't be wasted work is flawed. They gave characters roles based on what they thought was good. If they go to reconsider roles they are now likely to pick characters they felt were worth more work in the first place. I don't doubt we will see some promotions of some type but the community I feel really underestimates ATs.

I think it varies on how much the character is wanted.

I agree in instances Sakurai would look at a character like Isaac or Krystal as more worth the promotion over spirits such as Tom Nook but you could also argue that some spirits like Bandana Waddle Dee would also have more priority over certain assist trophies just based on demand for the character alone.

I think if Sakurai acknowledges people want it to happen, he will get it done. But it also is based on if he would want to even promote in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

Be gone!

 

[DIY]

C'mon, why do we have to trash on JWittz now? Basically every single character on the list he either said he liked and/or loved their games. He just didn't want the characters in Smash.

Maybe the concept of "10 characters I don't want" is what people don't like (personally I wouldn't make one), but JWittz is a super positive a nice guy. I definitely don't think he was being malicious, and you can tell that by what he says throughout the video.

JWittz is a very interesting guy for me. I've kind of disliked his videos for a long time now. Nothing against the guy himself. Like you said, I also think he comes across as a pretty positive and nice guy in his videos. However, my issues with him started years ago when he used to make a lot of those "Top 10" videos. I'm not sure about his opinions nowadays since I've stopped watching him for a long time, but I remember that even back then, he would make extremely controversial picks in his videos that most core fans of particular games would disagree with. I recall him admitting at times, like in this case with Geno, that his opinions differed from the general masses on certain things, but that he would nonetheless still include his dissenting opinions in "Top 10" lists, as opposed to "My Top 10" lists, if that makes sense.

It may sound nitpicky, but to me at least, a "Top 10" differs from a "My Top 10" list because one signifies the standard, general, top 10 lists of picks that most people in a specific community would agree with, while the other symbolizes one's own personal opinions on the matter. Basically, what used to bother me is that he (from what I remember) would often make these standardized "Top 10" video titles, which could mislead people into thinking that his lists were purely based on a general consensus, even though he would frequently add a few of his own preferenced picks to his lists, which would completely murk the water between consensus and one's own favouritism.

Again, it may sound like such a small and trivial thing, but take his new video, for example. In it, he clearly labels the title as, "Top 10 Smash Bros. DLC Characters I DON'T WANT," which immediately signifies that the video will contain his own prefences. That would normally be fine, but because he so frequently implements his dissenting, lone opinions into consensus/general agreement "Top 10" videos, I feel like I can never watch his videos for information because I can't tell whether I'm getting consensus info or sole opinions, which just makes me feel like I'm being lied to. This is why I truly dislike a lot of his "Top 10" videos and can't watch anything from his that doesn't immediately give away that what I'm watching is a "My Top 10" video, not a "Top 10."

I apologize if that's a bit confusing. But yeah, my dislike for JWittz as a Youtuber only comes from his styles of videos, not the specific content of this Geno video. Maybe he might have changed over the years, in which case, please do let me know, but I've pretty much stopped caring about his videos for a while now.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You know who i would rather have raiding this thread? Tomgaz.
At least he gets to the point pretty quick. He hates the geno fanbase and just wants to do that.
But mushroomguy here?
He actually wants us to go after a channel for having a different opinion to make the geno fanbase look bad, which is way worse than trolling.
TL;DR shut up mushroomguy

WHERE YOU AT?!!! WHERE YOU AT?!!! OffBi looking like a pimp.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know who i would rather have raiding this thread? Tomgaz.
At least he gets to the point pretty quick. He hates the geno fanbase and just wants to do that.
But mushroomguy here?
He actually wants us to go after a channel for having a different opinion to make the geno fanbase look bad, which is way worse than trolling.
TL;DR shut up mushroomguy

He also at least brought up an interesting point once in a while. So could be fun to be around. Not anymore, cause from my understanding he got banned fully(I know I reported the fake leak post too).

I think it varies on how much the character is wanted.

I agree in instances Sakurai would look at a character like Isaac or Krystal as more worth the promotion over spirits such as Tom Nook but you could also argue that some spirits like Bandana Waddle Dee would also have more priority over certain assist trophies just based on demand for the character alone.

I think if Sakurai acknowledges people want it to happen, he will get it done. But it also is based on if he would want to even promote in the first place.

This is a very good point.

To me, AT's are a double point; yes, they're way more gameplay than anything besides a costume(I wish every AT got a costume too, if playable isn't on the table). On the other hand, they're a model they can immediately have animations for and use later to help build a full character. Waluigi has a huge advantage due to that in being useful for upgrading. Not that he would be just like that, either. But it's definitely something that helps, not hurt him.

I'd say character merits and various popularity can have an important part of it. Things like having animations to work with also help. If 3rd party, you need to license a new usage of the character, an actual hurdle. Shadow would otherwise be hyper easy to promote, if not the easiest by far. Waluigi could easily take notes from Luigi and Wario, both who have moves that easy to translate, could reuse some of Peach/Daisy's Smash attack, and the rest would be other unique things. Eggplants, flying in the air, or obviously him using his own AT animation for a move. That looks pretty kickass. Literally and figuratively speaking.

Spirits would require more work, so them getting in otherwise has a principle factor. If AT's are meant to be hard gameplay roles that are the best they'll get for the current game as fanservice to others(note that right now, they are fanservice to others because they couldn't make it in as playable, or because they were cool fanservice choices), then Spirits simply have an advantage.

Another way to put it is there's merits to upgrading both.

 

[MisterMike]

Be gone!
View attachment 256755

Thanks for giving me the idea to make this:

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks for giving me the idea to make this:
View attachment 256756

Cool...I don’t get it. (Sorry)

 

[Franco Geno]

I know that i might be getting ahead of myself by saying this, but i'm pretty confident that this year will finally be our year to shine on the battlefield.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I know that i might be getting ahead of myself by saying this, but i'm pretty confident that this year will finally be our year to shine on the battlefield.
View attachment 256758

"Against all odds, I'm sticking with this guys." Damn straight.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You know who i would rather have raiding this thread? Tomgaz.
At least he gets to the point pretty quick. He hates the geno fanbase and just wants to do that.
But mushroomguy here?
He actually wants us to go after a channel for having a different opinion to make the geno fanbase look bad, which is way worse than trolling.
TL;DR shut up mushroomguy

Telling people to shut up and leave is what makes a fanbase look bad. Perhaps I should be reporting you for that? Maybe stop slandering me and misrepresenting my position and I’ll go quietly.

WHERE YOU AT?!!! WHERE YOU AT?!!! OffBi looking like a pimp.

Be gone!
View attachment 256755

And people act like I’m the toxic one here.

 

[AdamBel731]

JWittz is a very interesting guy for me. I've kind of disliked his videos for a long time now. Nothing against the guy himself. Like you said, I also think he comes across as a pretty positive and nice guy in his videos. However, my issues with him started years ago when he used to make a lot of those "Top 10" videos. I'm not sure about his opinions nowadays since I've stopped watching him for a long time, but I remember that even back then, he would make extremely controversial picks in his videos that most core fans of particular games would disagree with. I recall him admitting at times, like in this case with Geno, that his opinions differed from the general masses on certain things, but that he would nonetheless still include his dissenting opinions in "Top 10" lists, as opposed to "My Top 10" lists, if that makes sense.

It may sound nitpicky, but to me at least, a "Top 10" differs from a "My Top 10" list because one signifies the standard, general, top 10 lists of picks that most people in a specific community would agree with, while the other symbolizes one's own personal opinions on the matter. Basically, what used to bother me is that he (from what I remember) would often make these standardized "Top 10" video titles, which could mislead people into thinking that his lists were purely based on a general consensus, even though he would frequently add a few of his own preferenced picks to his lists, which would completely murk the water between consensus and one's own favouritism.

Again, it may sound like such a small and trivial thing, but take his new video, for example. In it, he clearly labels the title as, "Top 10 Smash Bros. DLC Characters I DON'T WANT," which immediately signifies that the video will contain his own prefences. That would normally be fine, but because he so frequently implements his dissenting, lone opinions into consensus/general agreement "Top 10" videos, I feel like I can never watch his videos for information because I can't tell whether I'm getting consensus info or sole opinions, which just makes me feel like I'm being lied to. This is why I truly dislike a lot of his "Top 10" videos and can't watch anything from his that doesn't immediately give away that what I'm watching is a "My Top 10" video, not a "Top 10."

I apologize if that's a bit confusing. But yeah, my dislike for JWittz as a Youtuber only comes from his styles of videos, not the specific content of this Geno video. Maybe he might have changed over the years, in which case, please do let me know, but I've pretty much stopped caring about his videos for a while now.

And that's more than alright to have that opinion! I'm not even a huge JWittz fan, I just got reccomended the video. You said your opinion respectfully and justified it, so you're in the clear dude. You didn't dog on the guy, you just said it respectfully!

Thanks for giving me the idea to make this:
View attachment 256756

Mike... you are a treasure. I was wondering if someone would make something like this.

Also, work me into another meme like this, because you and I are the defense force (hopefully you know that I've had my fair shares of trying to reason and argue with wynn). I've just let you take the reins for a bit.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

And people act like I’m the toxic one here.

You're because you keep attacking at us.

 

[Deleted member]

Telling people to shut up and leave is what makes a fanbase look bad. Perhaps I should be reporting you for that? Maybe stop slandering me and misrepresenting my position and I’ll go quietly.


And people act like I’m the toxic one here.

Listen here, bucko.