Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (On to Fighter's Pass 2 Speculation)

Dorayaki

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Really quick just want to point out that you have the quote saying it's from Serenade01, which is weird cuz I said that, heh. Anyway:



No, his chances for at least a Mii costume or Fighter at this point is around 99.9%, with the costume being 10%, fighter being 89.9%, and the last .1% being SMRPG is getting a remake and for whatever reason they needed to copyright strike those 2 songs.

They stopped doing copyright takedowns like that. They also took down MEGALOVANIA (a song they have ZERO means to copyright takedown) and it led to the Sans Mii Costume (and it wasn't even every instance of the song). They take down 2 songs and hmmm, all other SE reps have 2 songs each. Isn't that something?

If you want to argue Premium Mii Costume with 2 songs, fine, whatever, but to say that his chances aren't high is just blatantly ignoring the evidence. Feel free to ignore everything Sakurai said, feel free tot ignore the fact that his Sm4sh costume is missing. The two songs being taken down alone is a huge piece of evidence that cannot go ignored in discussions like this.
Like said, there is still a distance with a full garuntee with the coexistence of other contents in this game, if under the same assumption other characters would have same chance. That's why I said it's fair to assume Geno has a chance to compete with other candidates.

Yep, that's your opinion.
What?
 
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Like said, there is still a distance with a full garuntee with the coexistence of other contents in this game, if under the same assumption other characters would have same chance. That's why I said it's fair to assume Geno has a chance to compete with other candidates.
What other candidates have the same level of evidence? Do you see other songs being copyright taken down relating to other characters? Do you see content of them missing from this game? Do you see anything pointing to them?

- Sora has *NOTHING* going for him but being popular. He also has Disney as a massive roadblock. If only 1 SE rep, he also has Geno in his way, though I doubt that's much of a problem as SE could easily have 2+ if they wanted.
- Crash was heard and his recent reboots were put on Switch. Crash has also been massively requested, but outside of insiders hearing about him, there's no actual evidence in his favor. While I do think his chances are very high, he doesn't have any evidence.
- Dante is basically Sora too. His chances spiked because of the DMC twitter's dates. Still no evidence.
- Master Chief is purely because of Microsoft and Nintendo being cool. He's probably in, but again, no evidence outside of insiders hearing things.
- Steve ^. Besides Verge saying "Minecraft content" since the game has been out, literally nothing else going for him. Also has to get by Master Chief, who I personally think will take the second Microsoft spot over him.
- Lloyd is requested too, but has little going for him as well outside of the trademark and that new icon.
- Hayabusa isn't nearly as requested, but that one insider kept saying he was #5 for sure. No evidence.
- Arle actually does have some evidence, but in the form of her NSO game getting in over Kirby's Avalanche. Seems weird considering that's been there since E3(?) and she's still not in though.
- (edit) 2B I haven't been following at all, but there's no evidence there at all AFAIK. She even has a strike against them with Mai being unable to show up with Terry's stage.

^ these are the front-runners according to fans btw, none of which (to my knowledge) have any major evidence going for them outside of insiders saying things. To say any of these characters have a higher chance over one with, again, legitimate evidence, is nuts. Geno's chances are through the roof right now. Is he guaranteed? Of course not, I'd never say that until he gets his splash screen, but again, his chances are higher than everyone else here based purely on evidence and not hearsay.
 
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Dorayaki

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What other candidates have the same level of evidence? Do you see other songs being copyright taken down relating to other characters? Do you see content of them missing from this game? Do you see anything pointing to them?.
I mean either the contents Nintendo already owned or other 3rd party contents theyre allowed to use. Otherwise it seems like you mean the acquisition is a direct evidence about the fact Nintendo is active. My point remains that Nintendo is still able to utilize a great amount of source on their hand.

As for Geno specifically, my doubt point is that there could had been much more ways for Nintendo to openly show their allowance or acquisition of Geno rights to clarify why Geno was removed from M&L remake. Best case would sure be that Geno directly returns in newest Mario game, or get an update on running app titles. I believe Nintendo know how much we want him, so I don't believe that they'd veil things for us to wait and speculate.
 
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Megadoomer

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I’m still waiting for that example on Cuphead spirit changing too the Mii costume if you have it, because ngl I couldn't see any proof

The above tweet was from the Japanese Smash Bros. account, showing what the fight is like if you don't have the Cuphead Mii costume. There are similar tweets on that account for the Mugman, Devil, and King Dice fights.

If you do have the Cuphead Mii costume, these are the fights in question:

 

Fatmanonice

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The above tweet was from the Japanese Smash Bros. account, showing what the fight is like if you don't have the Cuphead Mii costume. There are similar tweets on that account for the Mugman, Devil, and King Dice fights.

If you do have the Cuphead Mii costume, these are the fights in question:

Yep. Kind of get the feeling this will be implemented more in the future. For example... A certain pointed shoed fellow would likely benefit from several swap outs.
 
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As for Geno specifically, my doubt point is that there could had been much more ways for Nintendo to openly show their allowance or acquisition of Geno rights to clarify why Geno was removed from M&L remake. Best case would sure be that Geno directly returns in newest Mario game, or get an update on running app titles. I believe Nintendo know how much we want him, so I don't believe that they'd veil things for us to wait and speculate.
- Not in M&L remake because they would have had to pay for the rights for a tiny cameo that means nothing.
- They have some rights for Smash already considering the spirit exists (Mallow too).
- ^ proves that Square's at least okay with him existing in Smash in some form, and it doesn't make sense to sit on a dead character that's heavily requested when they could make *FREE* money with him.

If SE was actually doing something with Geno, I'd understand, but it's virtually free money at this point to let him in.
 

"LC"_Lapen

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Well fellas, E3 tickets go on sale tomorrow, and even though I was pretty sure I was going to get me some since I'm only 2 hours away from LA and I've always wanted to go, sure seems like things just aren't shaping up to make the trip worth it.

Don't worry, I'm not doing a personal blog, it's just that I was waiting to see what stuff Nintendo was going to announce in the Direct That Time Forgot for weeks now, mostly because I was waiting to see if we were going to get a Smash reveal and, depending on who it was, place some odds of Geno being the big E3 showstopper in a few months. I would have loved to have been there in person, strutting around in my SMRPG shirt letting the Nintendo reps know how much we've been looking forward to this. But given the news drought, the lack of anything substantial for me to get excited about for their showroom floor exhibition, and the fact that the Dorito Pope himself isn't even bothering anymore just seems like a bad investment for $165 for 2 nights not including hotel. It's a shame since I survive Anime Expo every year, and that thing surpassed Fire Capacity laws years ago, so I feel like I've trained for this stuff.

Oh well, if any of the rest of you decide to camp on some tickets tomorrow, best of luck. If you go be sure to let them know how much we love and miss this game and these characters. For now, I guess I'll save my money and starve for info with everyone else.

starved.jpg
 
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ngl, i fail to see how this cuphead stuff relates to geno. I dont get it
If you have the Cuphead Mii Costume (DLC Costume) the fight against his Spirit changes from Megaman to Mii Gunner (With the Mii Costume)

That relates to Geno in the way that, if Geno ends up being DLC Fighter, then the fight against his Spirit would change from Sheik to Geno. (If you have the DLC)
 
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Lyncario

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What other candidates have the same level of evidence? Do you see other songs being copyright taken down relating to other characters? Do you see content of them missing from this game? Do you see anything pointing to them?

- Sora has *NOTHING* going for him but being popular. He also has Disney as a massive roadblock. If only 1 SE rep, he also has Geno in his way, though I doubt that's much of a problem as SE could easily have 2+ if they wanted.
- Crash was heard and his recent reboots were put on Switch. Crash has also been massively requested, but outside of insiders hearing about him, there's no actual evidence in his favor. While I do think his chances are very high, he doesn't have any evidence.
- Dante is basically Sora too. His chances spiked because of the DMC twitter's dates. Still no evidence.
- Master Chief is purely because of Microsoft and Nintendo being cool. He's probably in, but again, no evidence outside of insiders hearing things.
- Steve ^. Besides Verge saying "Minecraft content" since the game has been out, literally nothing else going for him. Also has to get by Master Chief, who I personally think will take the second Microsoft spot over him.
- Lloyd is requested too, but has little going for him as well outside of the trademark and that new icon.
- Hayabusa isn't nearly as requested, but that one insider kept saying he was #5 for sure. No evidence.
- Arle actually does have some evidence, but in the form of her NSO game getting in over Kirby's Avalanche. Seems weird considering that's been there since E3(?) and she's still not in though.
- (edit) 2B I haven't been following at all, but there's no evidence there at all AFAIK. She even has a strike against them with Mai being unable to show up with Terry's stage.

^ these are the front-runners according to fans btw, none of which (to my knowledge) have any major evidence going for them outside of insiders saying things. To say any of these characters have a higher chance over one with, again, legitimate evidence, is nuts. Geno's chances are through the roof right now. Is he guaranteed? Of course not, I'd never say that until he gets his splash screen, but again, his chances are higher than everyone else here based purely on evidence and not hearsay.
I would say that Reimu has pretty good evidence for her too, and while she's not a frontrunner, she's not that far from it. I mean:

-The doujin leak from November, about Touhou music coming to Smash. It was a 22 tracks playlist(too much for just a prenium Mii costume)not listing some themes that would obviously come with Reimu as a fighter(none of Marisa's theme, despite being Touhou deuteragonist, with the biggest ammount of themes to herself in the series).
-The March interview where ZUN said he would be ok with Reimu in Smash, that did not become public until much later for some reason.
-The fact that Touhou and Reimu are incredibly popular in all of Asia, especialy China, where she could make Switched and copies of Smash sell by herself (Touhou's popularity in China is also a great irony).
-Indie games were given a gradualy bigger place into Smash Ultimate, and what better Indie to make the first Indie playable in Smash than the oldest one of them all, who pretty much popularised and inspired doujins and indie games in Japan and the rest of the world (notably Undertale).
-Sakurai said that he became a game developper thanks to smhups, and with Touhou being a smhup, what better way to make his Ultimate creation complete than with the poster girl of what inspired him to starts this crazy ride?
-There's rumors of ZUN and Sakurai being drinking buddies.
-Most insiders wouldn't know about rumors about her joining Smash, since she would be very Japan centric.
-Nintendo also directly supported Touhou fan circles in the past, and is even having many Touhou fangames on the Switch, with a port of AoCF, an oficial game, confirmed. Plus, in the early E-shop, GensoWanderer, a Touhou fangame was dominating downloads in Japan.

Now, don't interprete me wrong. I'm not saying that any of this is against Geno, but Reimu got quite a lot going for her too.
 
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I would say that Reimu has pretty good evidence for her too, and while she's not a frontrunner, she's not that far from it. I mean:

-The doujin leak from November, about Touhou music coming to Smash. It was a 22 tracks playlist(too much for just a prenium Mii costume)not listing some themes that would obviously come with Reimu as a fighter(none of Marisa's theme, despite being Touhou deuteragonist, with the biggest ammount of themes to herself in the series).
-The March interview where ZUN said he would be ok with Reimu in Smash, that did not become public until much later for some reason.
-The fact that Touhou and Reimu are incredibly popular in all of Asia, especialy China, where she could make Switched and copies of Smash sell by herself (Touhou's popularity in China is also a great irony).
-Indie games were given a gradualy bigger place into Smash Ultimate, and what better Indie to make the first Indie playable in Smash than the oldest one of them all, who pretty much popularised and inspired doujins and indie games in Japan and the rest of the world (notably Undertale).
-Sakurai said that he became a game developper thanks to smhups, and with Touhou being a smhup, what better way to make his Ultimate creation complete than with the poster girl of what inspired him to starts this crazy ride?
-There's rumors of ZUN and Sakurai being drinking buddies.
-Most insiders wouldn't know about rumors about her joining Smash, since she would be very Japan centric.
-Nintendo also directly supported Touhou fan circles in the past, and is even having many Touhou fangames on the Switch, with a port of AoCF, an oficial game, confirmed. Plus, in the early E-shop, GensoWanderer, a Touhou fangame was dominating downloads in Japan.

Now, don't interprete me wrong. I'm not saying that any of this is against Geno, but Reimu got quite a lot going for her too.
I honestly wouldn't mind, Hakurei Reimu, the Shrine Maiden is one of my Pipe Dreams for her Music and because I'm a touhou fan.
Obviously this doesn't relate to Geno at all but, I'd hope to see both of them in the end :<
 

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I honestly wouldn't mind, Hakurei Reimu, the Shrine Maiden is one of my Pipe Dreams for her Music and because I'm a touhou fan.
Obviously this doesn't relate to Geno at all but, I'd hope to see both of them in the end :<
reimu is totally relevent because uh.... geno wanted to date the reimu fumo in king for another day by siivagunner. :ultpacman:
 

Fatmanonice

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What makes you say they will do it then?
Like I said, Nintendo sees that we're so angry we're actually calm, decides it doesn't like that and then just slams the " 'ope, it's ****in' Direct time" button for ****s, giggles, and giggly ****s.
 
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ngl, i fail to see how this cuphead stuff relates to geno. I dont get it
Okay so basically, one of the most common arguments given by people who believe that Spirits disconfirm characters (Geno included) is that, as Spirits are meant to be the... well, spirit of a character, they therefore not only can't also be included as fighter after the fact, they also cannot be removed or modified in any way. But as we've seen with this Cuphead Spirit, as well as the Dimitri and Hilda Spirits from Byleth's Spirit Board, Spirits can not only be renamed after the fact, but can also have the contents of their battle modified as well. As such, the argument that Spirits disconfirm characters has yet again taken a hit, and seeing as Geno is already a Spirit in the game, this benifits him getting in.

I like the fact that there's kind of calm returning. Everyone was mad. Now people seem chill. I can dig it. (And then Nintendo just goes ahead and does a Direct on the 20th just to **** with us.)
You say that, meanwhile I'm always chill and nobody says boo about it.
GenoLeggy.png
 
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REACHING tin foil hat time.

What if... subliminal hints were presented to us quite some time ago... when Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle released. A collaboration between Nintendo and Ubisoft. Another interesting take of the Mario universe, in the RPG genre. Mario RPG... GENO. Ubisoft... RAYMAN. Have they been so close to us this whole time?!?! :eek:

*Nurses rush in to put a straitjacket*
 

Turtlar

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I feel the exactly same way with Meowth.

If Geno comes back as a Mii costume again, could he possibly come with a song like Sans and Cuphead did? Maybe the one warning about forest mushrooms?

If Geno actually gets in Smash (finally), what stage could he bring to Smash? I still want the Super Mario RPG stage that is based on the prologue boss fight.

Bowser's Castle with the Exor sword in the background. Battling on the hanging chandeliers with Chain Chomps. That has to be the most iconic sight from Super Mario RPG.
I have wanted a Bowser's Castle stage since Smash 64, and I cannot begin to fathom as to why they've never added one. Bowser's Keep would be my choice as well.

I'm honestly kind of over world tour stages, BUT I would make an exception for the world of SMRPG, if and only if the stage is Blade.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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When Sakurai himself says there is too many FE Sword fighters ... you know anything else related to Nintendo wouldn't have the same controversy as another rep from that series.

(No hate for the FE base since I've played and enjoyed the games ... but I think even as fans of the series we can at least understand the frustration)
Yeah I'm really glad for Marth and Roy in Melee because I did discover FE through that and I love FE (although it's become far too horny for my taste but that's a completely unrelated issue). But very few characters in FE I look at and say "woah they'd be so cool in Smash". Some characters like Ashnard managed to win my favor in that regard but will never happen.

I didn't play Three Houses until recently after Byleth came out (not because Byleth came out just financial priorities prevented me from getting the game earlier). But not once have a felt that one of the characters in that game would be cool in Smash and I think it's just another case of those characters not offering a lot Moveset/gimmick-wise outside of the various weapons or mounts they have there's just not a lot to work with. Byleth is great for showing off FE variety in Smash but I feel no connection to the character. Three Houses is pretty fun tho. But I'm getting tangential. Yes I agree as a FE fan that the representation is out of hand for aforementioned reasons although it is impressive they've even been able to design full movesets for that many characters and I gotta admit that I love Marths final smash.
 

Firox

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Hey, guys, I need a favor. Some people in the Newcomers Thread are claiming that Geno had no presence on the official Sm4sh ballot. Could you guys send me as many fan-generated ballots as you can that show Geno in the top 5 or 10? Preferably ones with a relatively large pool of votes? I could have sworn that Geno was consistently high in all the ballots. I mean, why else would he have gotten a costume in the first place?
 
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Professor Pumpkaboo

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Hey, guys, I need a favor. Some people in the Newcomers Thread are claiming that Geno had no presence on the official Sm4sh ballot. Could you guys send me as many fan-generated ballots as you can that show Geno in the top 5 or 10? Preferably ones with a relatively large pool of votes? I could have sworn that Geno was consistently high in all the ballots. I mean, why else would he have gotten a costume in the first place?
1) why would you show fan ballots when they are talking about the official
 

waterhasataste

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So since we're talking about spirit battles changing, here's a thought. Geno's spirit in World of Light is here:
Screenshot_20200214-203553.png

Note how the spirit is placed on the dead end of a portion of the map. Now Geno isn't the only spirit in WoL that's like this, however if they upgrade Geno to a full fledged fighter, then I could easily see them just swapping out the Spirit Battle with a Fighter Battle instead. The location seems like it'd be a pretty comfy spot

Of course normally DLC Characters just show up in the WoL roster when you make a certain amount of progress, however since Geno would be an upgrade from a Spirit, I think this could be a special case
 

xpnc

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Hey, guys, I need a favor. Some people in the Newcomers Thread are claiming that Geno had no presence on the official Sm4sh ballot. Could you guys send me as many fan-generated ballots as you can that show Geno in the top 5 or 10? Preferably ones with a relatively large pool of votes? I could have sworn that Geno was consistently high in all the ballots. I mean, why else would he have gotten a costume in the first place?
You're not doing yourself any favours by posting in there
 

GodzillaGuy64

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1) why would you show fan ballots when they are talking about the official
To contrast his popularity on fan ballots to the official ballot in which we have NO ACCESS TO. Do you think before you type? You always come in here to pick challenges with people. But at the slightest disagreement, you always play the “oh woe is me I just want to support Geno” card. You’d mine as well just come out and say you don’t support him because to be honest it’s getting really annoying because you obviously don’t support him. No one will care, just say that you don’t and it will be the end of it.
 
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Hey, guys, I need a favor. Some people in the Newcomers Thread are claiming that Geno had no presence on the official Sm4sh ballot. Could you guys send me as many fan-generated ballots as you can that show Geno in the top 5 or 10? Preferably ones with a relatively large pool of votes? I could have sworn that Geno was consistently high in all the ballots. I mean, why else would he have gotten a costume in the first place?
While I'm not usually the one to help people win arguments on the internet... sure, why not?
From a simple Google search, these results came up.
In this one, Geno ranked 2nd.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/bl5r1y In this one, Geno is ranked 6th. I'm not actually sure if this is a different poll from the one above.


And of course there's this one, where Geno is ranked 9th with about 5% of the vote.


And this one, which has Geno at 6th, tied #3 in Japan and #7 in the US/EU.


And the Reddit Smash Ultimate Poll, which sees Geno end up in 3rd place with 13,702 votes.
Hope this helped!
GenoDab.png
 
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Firox

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1) why would you show fan ballots when they are talking about the official
Because nobody knows what the official results were. But if you don't know, how can you say Geno had no presence on it? Guess logic doesn't stop some people from making heavily biased claims. The point was that the fan ballots (especially the large ones) were meant to get an idea of how the official one turned out, hence I wanted ample proof to show I wasn't just making up the fact that Geno was still very much on the radar at the time.
 
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tfw someone says Geno did poorly in the ballot despite the ballot results not being public, they’re basing it solely on Smash 4 Geno supporters on SmashBoards being relatively absent, and Sakurai himself saying Geno gets lots of requests.
Like Geno supporters being absent is going to mean anything. As the saying goes, just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it is not there.
 
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