• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Deleted member

Guest
Hey, I ain't lettin' the thread be taken over by pessimism again!

So, while I've said many times that I still think Geno's chances look good, I'll change up the discussion....

We've said why Mallow is confirmed to be Thor. Now we must show uncover the real identity of another one from the SMRPG cast.

Geno is Iron Man. He lied when he said he was a star spirit because he didn't want people associating him with puppets.
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
Hey, I ain't lettin' the thread be taken over by pessimism again!

So, while I've said many times that I still think Geno's chances look good, I'll change up the discussion....

We've said why Mallow is confirmed to be Thor. Now we must show uncover the real identity of another one from the SMRPG cast.

Geno is Iron Man. He lied when he said he was a star spirit because he didn't want people associating him with puppets.
Not to mention, we lose Geno in the end, even if not to death like Iron Man.
 

Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
Hey, I ain't lettin' the thread be taken over by pessimism again!

So, while I've said many times that I still think Geno's chances look good, I'll change up the discussion....

We've said why Mallow is confirmed to be Thor. Now we must show uncover the real identity of another one from the SMRPG cast.

Geno is Iron Man. He lied when he said he was a star spirit because he didn't want people associating him with puppets.
To be fair, the last time I tried to re-inject hype over Geno's chances and the prospect of more DLC, I got dog-piled by killjoys. I mean, seriously, who WOULDN'T want more characters/chances for Geno to get in? Granted, we shouldn't let expectations get out of control, but at least the speculation of more DLC packs is supported by actual hard evidence in the form of those datamined character slots. Heck, that's more factual support than any of the general arguments made for character inclusions.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
So, which do you guys like better: Banjo-Kazooie or Dead By Daylight?

EDIT: NVM, Dauntless is back up!
Is that an actual question?
Hey, I ain't lettin' the thread be taken over by pessimism again!

So, while I've said many times that I still think Geno's chances look good, I'll change up the discussion....

We've said why Mallow is confirmed to be Thor. Now we must show uncover the real identity of another one from the SMRPG cast.

Geno is Iron Man. He lied when he said he was a star spirit because he didn't want people associating him with puppets.
That doesn't bode well for his chances of getting in
 

ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
Didn't these already get translated? I think I saw some part of the book translated somewhere.
Anyway, here you go.

The review of column vol.546 2018.1.11
Sakurai: Recently there is a lot of products that are designed to release like deluxe version with all DLCs included from the start. I'm more of a guy to buy each of them though.
Interviewer: Me too. I buy each as well.
Sakurai: I think it's weird these kind of big titles having the same price as old days, I want to return them more at least.
Interviewer: Development takes huge amount of works. By the way, you wrote about the season pass...
Sakurai: I am sorry about that! At this time around, selling of season pass or even making of DLC weren't a thing. Nothing was decided. These things get planned where nothing to do with the developer's will so...
Interviews: Of course I'll buy it and wait!

The column was about DLC in general. These things take quite a time, it's a risky business more than people think, Sakurai not really fond of idea of season pass, etc.
Where is the link to this column/interview/book?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Geno snaps his fingers with the seven infinity star pieces and deletes the Smithy Gang.
You know you posted something good when you get 3 likes in less than 2 seconds after you posted it.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
537
I bought his book so I have it but I don't really want to upload scans or photos because I don't want go through any troubles.
The part is on page 165. Ask someone own the book to double check it.

I have my summary of interesting parts ready. Since I can't give you any scans, should I post it or just let someone else do it? And where should I post it because I just now realized I'm in Geno thread.
I tried not to change the contexts but it's not a complete set of translations so I'm sure it'll give you some misinterpretations.
 

wynn728

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,380
Remember when this was a thing? Remember when things looked so, so good for Geno, and now we're floating in this air of uncertainty?


This is why patterns shouldn't be paid attention to. If only the patterns actually stuck for our boy that time. :( Still hoping for DLC...
Honestly there is no hope for Geno being in as DLC, and that's a character I really want.
It seems like Sakurai just doesn't want to put another fan favorite characters in Ultimate since he probably hates that ballot from a few years ago. We only got 3 characters from it and the rest of ballot characters were turned into Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes, thus ending their chances to be in Smash Bros Ultimate. He went on how they can't add that many newcomers, but instead of trying to fill the slot with characters that people have been wanting he put in Piranha Plant. And the four remaining DLC are going to be third party characters that no one would expect like Joker, so basically characters that have no presence in the ballot. All this stuff just makes it seem like Sakurai hated what characters fans wanted and threw that ballot away. So much so that he had Nintendo come up with the DLC, basically saying "if you're not happy that this request character didn't make it in blame Nintendo."
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Honestly there is no hope for Geno being in as DLC, and that's a character I really want.
It seems like Sakurai just doesn't want to put another fan favorite characters in Ultimate since he probably hates that ballot from a few years ago. We only got 3 characters from it and the rest of ballot characters were turned into Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes, thus ending their chances to be in Smash Bros Ultimate. He went on how they can't add that many newcomers, but instead of trying to fill the slot with characters that people have been wanting he put in Piranha Plant. And the four remaining DLC are going to be third party characters that no one would expect like Joker, so basically characters that have no presence in the ballot. All this stuff just makes it seem like Sakurai hated what characters fans wanted and threw that ballot away. So much so that he had Nintendo come up with the DLC, basically saying "if you're not happy that this request character didn't make it in blame Nintendo."
Imagine projecting your opinion as fact.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,460
Honestly there is no hope for Geno being in as DLC, and that's a character I really want.
It seems like Sakurai just doesn't want to put another fan favorite characters in Ultimate since he probably hates that ballot from a few years ago. We only got 3 characters from it and the rest of ballot characters were turned into Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes, thus ending their chances to be in Smash Bros Ultimate. He went on how they can't add that many newcomers, but instead of trying to fill the slot with characters that people have been wanting he put in Piranha Plant. And the four remaining DLC are going to be third party characters that no one would expect like Joker, so basically characters that have no presence in the ballot. All this stuff just makes it seem like Sakurai hated what characters fans wanted and threw that ballot away. So much so that he had Nintendo come up with the DLC, basically saying "if you're not happy that this request character didn't make it in blame Nintendo."
Or game developers should have creative freedom beyond what fans want exactly. Saying someone hates something whenever they don't do exactly what you want is very immature and childish.

Also can we stop romanticizing the ballot? A relatively small portion of the fandom actually voted, there were a lot of double voting and it happened like three years ago.
 

wynn728

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,380
Imagine projecting your opinion as fact.
Keep denying it as much as you want, Sakurai's action speaks for themselves. Especially when he went out of his way to only get a Spirit for Geno and that's it. That right there tells me that he has no plans on actually getting Geno to be playable.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Keep denying it as much as you want, Sakurai's action speaks for themselves. Especially when he went out of his way to only get a Spirit for Geno and that's it. That right there tells me that he has no plans on actually getting Geno to be playable.
Or you're just choosing to be unnecessarily pessimistic about something and don't know that your opinion isn't fact.
 

wynn728

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,380
Or game developers should have creative freedom beyond what fans want exactly. Saying someone hates something whenever they don't do exactly what you want is very immature and childish.

Also can we stop romanticizing the ballot? A relatively small portion of the fandom actually voted, there were a lot of double voting and it happened like three years ago.
Sakurai can have creative freedom, but a lot of his creative freedom.did create tripping from Brawl, Brawl's Break the Targets, Smash Tour, Smash Bros Wii U Classic Modes, Yellow Devil & Ridley Stage Bosses, Wii U's Stage Builder, the process of unlocking custom moves, Angry Birds Break the Targets. Sakurai doesn't always have the best judgement, and a lot of times he does better when following fan feed back. Such as Final Smash Meter, Battlefield version of all stages, Rage turn off, pre-set rules, a mode where each stock is a different fighter, Ganondorf using his sword, revamp Classic Mode, and turning Stage Hazards off.

Or you're just choosing to be unnecessarily pessimistic about something and don't know that your opinion isn't fact.
Usually I'm an optimist, but then I face reality and learn the truth. I would love to be wrong, but it just seems that Sakurai will never have true intentions of making Geno playable. I'm positive he's just going to rerelease the Geno Mii Costumes at E3 since he doesn't want to be bother actually making him playable.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Usually I'm an optimist, but then I face reality and learn the truth. I would love to be wrong, but it just seems that Sakurai will never have true intentions of making Geno playable. I'm positive he's just going to rerelease the Geno Mii Costumes at E3 since he doesn't want to be bother actually making him playable.
16gnae.jpg

I mean, you're probably not going to change your stance on this, so then there you have it. You have your opinion, we have ours. Don't treat your personal thoughts as word of god.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

alemerltoucanet

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,121
Location
the Lucina Gang
NNID
AngrySilverBird
Hello! Not yet, it's been calm.

While I do like when there's a lot of info to take about, I like the calm periods of speculation without much info.
Ahh, okay. It's just, E3 is like right around the corner and I'm like really curious as to if there's any leaks, rumors, etc. pertaining to it atm. It's also good for it to be quiet tho.

Also, hello! I honestly need to hop on here more like I used to.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Ahh, okay. It's just, E3 is like right around the corner and I'm like really curious as to if there's any leaks, rumors, etc. pertaining to it atm. It's also good for it to be quiet tho.

Also, hello! I honestly need to hop on here more like I used to.
I get that lol. But no, as far as E3 goes, there haven't been many leaks or rumors about it.

And yeah, it's nice having you pop back in again.
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
Usually I'm an optimist, but then I face reality and learn the truth. I would love to be wrong, but it just seems that Sakurai will never have true intentions of making Geno playable. I'm positive he's just going to rerelease the Geno Mii Costumes at E3 since he doesn't want to be bother actually making him playable.
Considering how Nintendo handled the DLC, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai planned on it, but Nintendo was like, "Naw, not happening." Still, it isn't unrealistic that he got the rights just for the spirit and Mii costume to sate the fans with some minimal consolation. I do agree that we're getting the Mii costume, though, even if my certainty there is a 'probably' and not a 'definitely'.

Listen, I don't have any hope for Geno in the Fighter's Pass myself, and I only have a little remaining hope for possible DLC outside of the pass, but your behavior is ridiculously patronizing. You're basing some things off of sound logic, as well, but it's jumping the gun to say things like, "Sakurai hated the ballot." Ridley, Simon (and, to an extent, Richter), and K. Rool were ballot fan picks, and I'm sure Inkling and Isabelle ranked very high. Everyone is here is probably ballot-inspired because of the amount of voting for veterans. The only character I'd say wasn't influenced by the ballot (sans PP, not counting it since it's a DLC character, regardless of circumstance) was Incineroar.

Sakurai paid attention to the ballot. Just because he didn't handle it the way you wanted him to doesn't mean that he 'hates the ballot' and 'doesn't care'. There's a difference between realism and going overboard on your pessimism. You're doing the latter, and I say that as someone who is probably one of the most pessimistic people on the Geno thread.
 

wynn728

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,380
Now it just seems like you're trolling.
I'm not trolling. I've been wanting Geno for so long, but after seeing Isaac, Shadow, Rex & Pyra, Chibi Robo, Skull Kid, Ashley, Bomberman, Takamaru, Black Knight, Waluigi, Saki, Akira, and a character from ARMS all losing their chances of being playable doesn't inspire me with the confidence that Sakurai is going to put Geno in. Especially when it seems all he wants to do is just reference him here and there and thinks that's good enough, such as Piranha Plant Classic Mode picture.

Considering how Nintendo handled the DLC, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai planned on it, but Nintendo was like, "Naw, not happening." Still, it isn't unrealistic that he got the rights just for the spirit and Mii costume to sate the fans with some minimal consolation. I do agree that we're getting the Mii costume, though, even if my certainty there is a 'probably' and not a 'definitely'.

Listen, I don't have any hope for Geno in the Fighter's Pass myself, and I only have a little remaining hope for possible DLC outside of the pass, but your behavior is ridiculously patronizing. You're basing some things off of sound logic, as well, but it's jumping the gun to say things like, "Sakurai hated the ballot." Ridley, Simon (and, to an extent, Richter), and K. Rool were ballot fan picks, and I'm sure Inkling and Isabelle ranked very high. Everyone is here is probably ballot-inspired because of the amount of voting for veterans. The only character I'd say wasn't influenced by the ballot (sans PP, not counting it since it's a DLC character, regardless of circumstance) was Incineroar.

Sakurai paid attention to the ballot. Just because he didn't handle it the way you wanted him to doesn't mean that he 'hates the ballot' and 'doesn't care'. There's a difference between realism and going overboard on your pessimism. You're doing the latter, and I say that as someone who is probably one of the most pessimistic people on the Geno thread.
Well let's breakdown all these characters and decision when it comes to the ballot, shall we?

Everyone is Here - people don't like characters getting cut, and early on in Smash Bros 4 people already express their grievous that Snake and Wolf didn't come back, and with all the characterst that Smash Bros 4 accumulated it would be a big bummer to see many of them get the boot. So early on Sakurai stated that he wants to bring everyone back with no cuts, which is why Ultimate started out as a port and got molded to be more unique. He didn't have to consult the ballot to see that people wanted no cuts, just look at every other fighting game and how they handle cuts.

Inklings - this was a no brainer character to pick. Splatoon became massively popular as brand new IP on a failing system. Splatoon made a name for itself, everyone was expecting Inklings were going to be in the next Smash Bros by default that when people made bingo cards Inkling was used as the free space. Sakurai was going to put Inklings in regardless of what the ballot said since it was a brand new character from an extremely successful title.

Ridley - this is a character who has been memed so much with comments like "he's too big." Ridley keeps finding himself in Smash Bros discussions that it made sense to chose him as a newcomer. Many people online knows about Ridley and the jokes surrounding him so much that Ridley introduction was him "HITTING THE BIG TIME" and having one of his taunts just showing how big he is. He was chosen from the ballot & his popularity, I give Sakurai that.

Simon Belmont - in interview Sakurai did say that Simon Belmont was chosen from the ballot, but did say when wanting to put in another third party character there was really no other choice but Castlevania due to rich history. When you follow up with the comment "there was really nothing else to pick from besides Castlevania as a third party rep," makes it sound like fan demand had little influence over that decision and it was chosen more as a necessity. Also you can't convince me that Richter Belmont made it that high in the ballot. I don't care what Sakurai said there's no way Richter is a ballot character when so many people didn't even know about him until his reveal happened. I can believe he's popular among the Castlevania fans, but I'm pretty sure Simon and Alucard eclipse Richter's requests.

King K. Rool - Yeah, that was a ballot character that Sakurai didn't know many people wanted it. It helps that he increase the villain side of the roster. I give him that.

Isabelle - she was put in to promote the next Animal Crossing game, which is why a teaser for the next AC came right after he reveal. She was an easy character to make see how she was basically a 50%-60% clone of Villager. She wasn't pick because she did well on the ballot, she was pick because of the right timing for a new Animal Crossing game that was easy to make and her popularity blowing up among the AC community.

Now if we look at all the of the newcomers that made it in and compare it to the ballot we see that 3 out of the current 8 newcomers (including DLC) came from the ballot. That's less than half, and when the last four DLC characters show up it's going to be just 25% of the new characters were ballot characters. We can assume that there are no more ballot characters left when you see who got turn into Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes, and with comments like "These DLC are branching out to new audience and are unexpecting," shows that the ballot is out the window. I don't say these comments like "Sakurai hates the ballot" all willy nilly, I put in the research and look at how this all went before I make these comments. Now I would love to be wrong, but seeing how it all turns out and looking at all of Sakurai's actions and words does convince me that he just didn't like majority of the ballot characters. In the past he said that Assist Trophies was his way of including characters that he didn't believe that couldn't be fighters, and see how many of the ballot characters became Assist Trophies and Piranha Plant was chosen as a fighter instead seems to ring true to his ideals (especially when you consider that we only got three assist upgrades and only one of the three have a unique moveset due to having a brand new game on the Wii and the other two are basically clones).
 
Last edited:

Megadoomer

Moderator
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
10,254
Switch FC
SW-0351-1523-9047
Simon Belmont - in interview Sakurai did say that Simon Belmont was chosen from the ballot, but did say when wanting to put in another third party character there was really no other choice but Castlevania due to rich history. When you follow up with the comment "there was really nothing else to pick from besides Castlevania as a third party rep," makes it sound like fan demand had little influence over that decision and it was chosen more as a necessity. Also you can't convince me that Richter Belmont made it that high in the ballot. I don't care what Sakurai said there's no way Richter is a ballot character when so many people didn't even know about him until his reveal happened. I can believe he's popular among the Castlevania fans, but I'm pretty sure Simon and Alucard eclipse Richter's requests.
For Richter, it seems like he was added in because he'd be easy to make, since pretty much all of his moves are identical to Simon's. It's like Dark Pit, but much easier to justify since he's the Belmont from Symphony of the Night, which is one of the most important/well-known games in the franchise.

They could have added Alucard along with Simon, but he'd be completely different from other pre-existing characters, and given the seemingly tight schedule (aside from Everyone Is Here, they only included six unique characters in the base game and a bunch of echo fighters), it would make more sense to give the franchise one unique character and a clone as opposed to giving it two unique fighters and not having enough time to add someone like K. Rool or Ridley.
 

ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
Literal wall of acceptance before the game is even over
Look...look, I get it. I get it, I really do. You think it's over. You think that the war has been lost and now is the time when we lament our losses and dream of what could have been.

Well I am here to tell you that THE WAR ISN'T OVER! Battles are fought and won and lost all the time, but a war consists of multiple battles and the end is not yet in site! We still have four more shots at the very LEAST to get our boi in, and I'll have you know we ain't giving up yet. We will never give up. Even when Geno doesn't get in title after title...even when people berate us for supporting a character from so long ago with little history...even when everyone around us is convinced that Dragon Quest has already won the war...

WE:mad088:
WILL:mad088:
NOT:mad088:
GIVE:mad088:
UP! :mad088:

We've been invested for so long and our love for Geno and SMRPG runs TOO DEEP to give up now! He's at the closest he has even been to get in, why in the HELL would we give up when the light at the end of the tunnel is closer than it ever had been?! Why would we raise the white flag when Nintendo has talked more about Geno and SMRPG in the past couple years than they have in over a decade?! Why would we fall to the mockery of our peers when we fight for the recognition of one of the best video games ever made in history that represented the golden years of Square and Nintendo history?!

So, I say to you, wynn728. Do not give up. Do not lose hope. Instead, take my hand! Take the hand of the Geno Smashboards community and get BACK up on your feet and push and fight for what you love!


FIGHT FOR YOUR BLUE PUPPET BOI!

FIGHT FOR GENO!

Because at the end of it all, if we don't fight for him, who will? And, what else is worth fighting for than that which you hold dear?
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
I'm not trolling. I've been wanting Geno for so long, but after seeing Isaac, Shadow, Rex & Pyra, Chibi Robo, Skull Kid, Ashley, Bomberman, Takamaru, Black Knight, Waluigi, Saki, Akira, and a character from ARMS all losing their chances of being playable doesn't inspire me with the confidence that Sakurai is going to put Geno in. Especially when it seems all he wants to do is just reference him here and there and thinks that's good enough, such as Piranha Plant Classic Mode picture.



Well let's breakdown all these characters and decision when it comes to the ballot, shall we?

Everyone is Here - people don't like characters getting cut, and early on in Smash Bros 4 people already express their grievous that Snake and Wolf didn't come back, and with all the characterst that Smash Bros 4 accumulated it would be a big bummer to see many of them get the boot. So early on Sakurai stated that he wants to bring everyone back with no cuts, which is why Ultimate started out as a port and got molded to be more unique. He didn't have to consult the ballot to see that people wanted no cuts, just look at every other fighting game and how they handle cuts.

Inklings - this was a no brainer character to pick. Splatoon became massively popular as brand new IP on a failing system. Splatoon made a name for itself, everyone was expecting Inklings were going to be in the next Smash Bros by default that when people made bingo cards Inkling was used as the free space. Sakurai was going to put Inklings in regardless of what the ballot said since it was a brand new character from an extremely successful title.

Ridley - this is a character who has been memed so much with comments like "he's too big." Ridley keeps finding himself in Smash Bros discussions that it made sense to chose him as a newcomer. Many people online knows about Ridley and the jokes surrounding him so much that Ridley introduction was him "HITTING THE BIG TIME" and having one of his taunts just showing how big he is. He was chosen from the ballot & his popularity, I give Sakurai that.

Simon Belmont - in interview Sakurai did say that Simon Belmont was chosen from the ballot, but did say when wanting to put in another third party character there was really no other choice but Castlevania due to rich history. When you follow up with the comment "there was really nothing else to pick from besides Castlevania as a third party rep," makes it sound like fan demand had little influence over that decision and it was chosen more as a necessity. Also you can't convince me that Richter Belmont made it that high in the ballot. I don't care what Sakurai said there's no way Richter is a ballot character when so many people didn't even know about him until his reveal happened. I can believe he's popular among the Castlevania fans, but I'm pretty sure Simon and Alucard eclipse Richter's requests.

King K. Rool - Yeah, that was a ballot character that Sakurai didn't know many people wanted it. It helps that he increase the villain side of the roster. I give him that.

Isabelle - she was put in to promote the next Animal Crossing game, which is why a teaser for the next AC came right after he reveal. She was an easy character to make see how she was basically a 50%-60% clone of Villager. She wasn't pick because she did well on the ballot, she was pick because of the right timing for a new Animal Crossing game that was easy to make and her popularity blowing up among the AC community.

Now if we look at all the of the newcomers that made it in and compare it to the ballot we see that 3 out of the current 8 newcomers (including DLC) came from the ballot. That's less than half, and when the last four DLC characters show up it's going to be just 25% of the new characters were ballot characters. We can assume that there are no more ballot characters left when you see who got turn into Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes, and with comments like "These DLC are branching out to new audience and are unexpecting," shows that the ballot is out the window. I don't say these comments like "Sakurai hates the ballot" all willy nilly, I put in the research and look at how this all went before I make these comments. Now I would love to be wrong, but seeing how it all turns out and looking at all of Sakurai's actions and words does convince me that he just didn't like majority of the ballot characters. In the past he said that Assist Trophies was his way of including characters that he didn't believe that couldn't be fighters, and see how many of the ballot characters became Assist Trophies and Piranha Plant was chosen as a fighter instead seems to ring true to his ideals (especially when you consider that we only got three assist upgrades and only one of the three have a unique moveset due to having a brand new game on the Wii and the other two are basically clones).
This comes off as really desperate to paint Sakurai as a bad guy who doesn't listen to the fans and genuinely trying to discredit what was achieved in Ultimate from a fan demand perspective. None of your arguments hold any real weight because you discredit the character choices when they aren't exclusively picked for being popular on ballots or from the fan perspective. Just because characters have other reasons to make it in beyond fan demand, does not mean that fan demand did not play an important role in their inclusion. Sakurai picks characters for a complex multitude of reasons and pretty much always has. It's pretty rare for there to be singular factor influencing the decision making in Smash as a whole. You can include a character solely because of popular demand, but with a series like Smash that prides itself on being a huge crossover that represents lots of different games, it'd be a mistake to only focus on that when picking newcomers. There has to be balance to those choices, and there are reasons to add a character beyond fan demand. Let's take a look at your analysis of things:

Everybody is Here - Fighting games cut characters all the time, especially in today's primarily DLC and Microtransaction focused era, to the point where we see fighting games launch with 16 character like Street Fighter V despite such a colorful and varied cast from the past nearly 30 years. Smash was already unique in how few characters the series cut, but that was becoming more and more difficult with each new game. And the few characters that did get cut demanded a huge public outcry from the fans. Mewtwo was quite possibly one of the largest requests of the Smash 4 era, people have never let go of Roy since Melee, people cried out when Wolf didn't make it back into Smash 4 via DLC, etc. Even the more middle of the road characters like Pichu and Pokemon Trainer had support. These characters showed up all the time in fan polls, so at the very least, they were fan requested by the same polls you are almost definitely using to levy complaints against Sakurai and Smash Ultimate. Ultimate bringing everyone back was an unprecedented move in this era of gaming, and was distinctly demanded by fans of the series. Just because specifically Everybody is Here wasn't a ballot option per se does not mean that you get to discard the fan's influence on such a decision.

Inkling - Just because a character makes sense to include does not mean they were not popular with fans. Again, you're probably using fan ballots to make your conclusions, and they consistently ranked on those as well. But that doesn't even matter. A popular shoe-in is still a popular request and Inkling was undoubtedly one of the most desired newcomers by the community given Splatoon's runaway success. They 100% count towards satisfying fan demand given fan demand was there for them beforehand.

Ridley - I don't really know what you're trying to get at when you're discussing memes and discussion. He's a popular fan choice, no real way around it.

Simon/Richter - Again, Castlevania had some notable support in the past and you miss the point of the Castlevania characters. Sakurai talks about votes for the series being popular (a statistic that would otherwise go missed if you're only laser-focused on specific characters). It wasn't chosen as a "necessity" because such things don't exist in Smash. It was chosen for a web of complicated reasons like rich history, Konami being back on board, and fan demand. Multiple things contribute to characters, but they still operate as satisfying fan demand if they were requested beforehand. Simon takes moves that only Richter does and Richter tends to be the more popular choice of Belmont in Japan over the others given Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. Richter was easy to make and a compromise to the fact that the Belmonts experienced different popularity depending on region.

King K. Rool - Your nihilism is noted on the fact that he increases the villain count... but that has never been all that important to Sakurai in any way, shape, or form. He has never cared about quota except for Pokemon.

Isabelle - She was a really popular, new character from Nintendo. Those tend to get added to Smash and she doesn't serve exclusively as a promotional character just because you want her to. Part of Smash is recognizing other popular IPs and characters that may not traditionally be popular in the eyes of the fan base, but popular elsewhere and including them as well. She's a breakout star that made sense to add. So while she isn't added because of Smash fan demand, it would be a little foolish to say she was included only because of promotional reasons and ease of making.

You don't even mention the likes of Dark Samus and Chrom who were both specifically touted as popular characters that Sakurai added to fulfill fan requests. Joker isn't entirely just a Sakurai pick either and had fan support on some level. There's so much more fan service in this game than you're making it out to be. Not to mention you're claiming the DLC absolutely won't include anyone with traditionally popular fan support when we don't even know the second character of five. I think you're completely jumping the gun on all of that too.

Stop focusing on the ballot so much, and you'll see that there's a lot more to Ultimate done in the name of Smash fandom than you're implying. And also stop assuming the fan polls are truly indicative of the real ballot when we just don't, and will never, know what any of that looks like. 1.8 million votes is a lot of data and information to work with. Plus, as I said earlier, there are lots of reasons to choose characters. Fan demand can be the sole qualifier for a couple of characters, but it should never be exclusively relied upon. You'd miss so much if you did (including beloved fan communities on this site that don't poll particularly well).
 

wynn728

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,380
This comes off as really desperate to paint Sakurai as a bad guy who doesn't listen to the fans and genuinely trying to discredit what was achieved in Ultimate from a fan demand perspective. None of your arguments hold any real weight because you discredit the character choices when they aren't exclusively picked for being popular on ballots or from the fan perspective. Just because characters have other reasons to make it in beyond fan demand, does not mean that fan demand did not play an important role in their inclusion. Sakurai picks characters for a complex multitude of reasons and pretty much always has. It's pretty rare for there to be singular factor influencing the decision making in Smash as a whole. You can include a character solely because of popular demand, but with a series like Smash that prides itself on being a huge crossover that represents lots of different games, it'd be a mistake to only focus on that when picking newcomers. There has to be balance to those choices, and there are reasons to add a character beyond fan demand. Let's take a look at your analysis of things:

Everybody is Here - Fighting games cut characters all the time, especially in today's primarily DLC and Microtransaction focused era, to the point where we see fighting games launch with 16 character like Street Fighter V despite such a colorful and varied cast from the past nearly 30 years. Smash was already unique in how few characters the series cut, but that was becoming more and more difficult with each new game. And the few characters that did get cut demanded a huge public outcry from the fans. Mewtwo was quite possibly one of the largest requests of the Smash 4 era, people have never let go of Roy since Melee, people cried out when Wolf didn't make it back into Smash 4 via DLC, etc. Even the more middle of the road characters like Pichu and Pokemon Trainer had support. These characters showed up all the time in fan polls, so at the very least, they were fan requested by the same polls you are almost definitely using to levy complaints against Sakurai and Smash Ultimate. Ultimate bringing everyone back was an unprecedented move in this era of gaming, and was distinctly demanded by fans of the series. Just because specifically Everybody is Here wasn't a ballot option per se does not mean that you get to discard the fan's influence on such a decision.

Inkling - Just because a character makes sense to include does not mean they were not popular with fans. Again, you're probably using fan ballots to make your conclusions, and they consistently ranked on those as well. But that doesn't even matter. A popular shoe-in is still a popular request and Inkling was undoubtedly one of the most desired newcomers by the community given Splatoon's runaway success. They 100% count towards satisfying fan demand given fan demand was there for them beforehand.

Ridley - I don't really know what you're trying to get at when you're discussing memes and discussion. He's a popular fan choice, no real way around it.

Simon/Richter - Again, Castlevania had some notable support in the past and you miss the point of the Castlevania characters. Sakurai talks about votes for the series being popular (a statistic that would otherwise go missed if you're only laser-focused on specific characters). It wasn't chosen as a "necessity" because such things don't exist in Smash. It was chosen for a web of complicated reasons like rich history, Konami being back on board, and fan demand. Multiple things contribute to characters, but they still operate as satisfying fan demand if they were requested beforehand. Simon takes moves that only Richter does and Richter tends to be the more popular choice of Belmont in Japan over the others given Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. Richter was easy to make and a compromise to the fact that the Belmonts experienced different popularity depending on region.

King K. Rool - Your nihilism is noted on the fact that he increases the villain count... but that has never been all that important to Sakurai in any way, shape, or form. He has never cared about quota except for Pokemon.

Isabelle - She was a really popular, new character from Nintendo. Those tend to get added to Smash and she doesn't serve exclusively as a promotional character just because you want her to. Part of Smash is recognizing other popular IPs and characters that may not traditionally be popular in the eyes of the fan base, but popular elsewhere and including them as well. She's a breakout star that made sense to add. So while she isn't added because of Smash fan demand, it would be a little foolish to say she was included only because of promotional reasons and ease of making.

You don't even mention the likes of Dark Samus and Chrom who were both specifically touted as popular characters that Sakurai added to fulfill fan requests. Joker isn't entirely just a Sakurai pick either and had fan support on some level. There's so much more fan service in this game than you're making it out to be. Not to mention you're claiming the DLC absolutely won't include anyone with traditionally popular fan support when we don't even know the second character of five. I think you're completely jumping the gun on all of that too.

Stop focusing on the ballot so much, and you'll see that there's a lot more to Ultimate done in the name of Smash fandom than you're implying. And also stop assuming the fan polls are truly indicative of the real ballot when we just don't, and will never, know what any of that looks like. 1.8 million votes is a lot of data and information to work with. Plus, as I said earlier, there are lots of reasons to choose characters. Fan demand can be the sole qualifier for a couple of characters, but it should never be exclusively relied upon. You'd miss so much if you did (including beloved fan communities on this site that don't poll particularly well).
Well first of all with your comment "series like Smash that prides itself on being a huge crossover that represents lots of different games." You say that yet we only got 2 brand new series added to the base roster and by the time the Fighters Pass is over the only new Nintendo series that got added to Smash Bros will only be Splatoon. I agree that Smash takes pride with having so many series represented, but it seems like it has no more interest is representing any more series like Golden Sun, Chibi-Robo, ARMS, or Sin & Punishment.

Second, reason why I didn't mention Chrom and Dark Samus was because they're Echo fighters. They're easy to make so not much effort was put into them. After the way Sakurai treated Chrom during Smash 4 he kind of owes him some form of an apology. Dark Samus seem to only gain traction when Echo Fighters started to be a thing, and it's hard to believe that Dark Samus was that popular among Smash Bros fans when majority of them were asking for Ridley.

Third, Joker didn't have any real fan support because majority of people who want Joker believed that it wasn't going to happen at all, so no one really entertaining the idea would be possible. Jokers falls in line with "oh that character would be awesome in Smash Bros, but he ain't going to happen." Sakurai made it clear that he loves Persona 5 and I highly doubt he consider Joker's fan demand when choosing him. They want the DLC to branch out to other series, and it just so happens that Sakurai's and Nintendo's interest lined up for Joker.

Fourth, we know who isn't getting in as DLC and that's another Nintendo character. After look at all the characters that got deconfirmed as Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes, the only Nintendo characters that are left are Bandana Waddle Dee, Paper Mario, Rhythm Heaven, Elma, Fire Emblem Three Houses, and Hades. However, see how the DLC was planned out a head of time during the development of the base game we can safely assume that Spirits deconfirm fighters, and another reason for is because each new fighter gets their own Spirit Board so that means if that character shows up as a Spirit and have their series represented with a couple of Spirits (for example, there's already an Elma Spirits with some Xenoblade X Spirits already in it) then they're out of the running. So basically every Nintendo character is deconfirmed and if we do get a Nintendo character as DLC it's going to be a Fire Emblem Three Houses character. The DLC is going to be third party characters that we don't expect at all, which means they're going to be characters that we never consider like Joker. We all consider characters like Geno and Banjo possible, but because they're not unexpecting anymore more in line seems to tell us that they're not getting in.

I would love to be wrong about all of this, that we'll get more fan requested characters like Geno or anyone else, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Sakurai rather have characters like Piranha Plant get added than another fan requested character like Bandans Waddle Dee. It may seem like I'm trying to paint him as a bad guy, but all I'm doing is looking at his words & action and it all leads to this.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I feel like we've already had this discussion and it never got anywhere, so I'd just ignore this user at this point.
 

EarlTamm

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
7,329
Hey, I know this is not Geno related, but the Sonic twitter is having another takeover, this time with Tails added to the mix. I am just gonna list some of my faves so far.
Man, I wish Nintendo would do things like this, but I guess they aren't exactly known for games with that much voice acting. Then again, a WarioWare takeover could be pretty cool since that series now has defined voice acting and wacky characters.[/spoiler][/spoiler]
 
Last edited:

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
So on the column for Famitsu that Ayumi gave rough translations of, Sakurai has stated that he views DLC as something that is sometimes best cut off at an earlier point so they can move on to the next game. That makes further DLC look less likely than before. There were also characters for Sm4sh's DLC that Sakurai went for, but was rejected.

My hopes for Geno have plummeted even further, if that was at all possible.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So on the column for Famitsu that Ayumi gave rough translations of, Sakurai has stated that he views DLC as something that is sometimes best cut off at an earlier point so they can move on to the next game. That makes further DLC look less likely than before. There were also characters for Sm4sh's DLC that Sakurai went for, but was rejected.

My hopes for Geno have plummeted even further, if that was at all possible.
That would imply that Sakurai wants to start a new Smash game. He said he hopes he "wouldn't have to make another one for 9 years."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom