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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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TheBeastHimself

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I've noticed that Geno has a couple of signs of keeping things firmly to himself, and that does resonate with me now that you brought up his higher authority. At the end of the game, before entering Smithy's factory, he is very hesitant and somber about leaving. However, he doesn't vocalize it too much and tries to trudge on anyway.

In my headcanon, he's reluctant about anyone shouldering burdens that should be his and his alone. His sadness over leaving his new friends behind is something he doesn't want them to know in full. He doesn't want them to suffer for him when he's doing his job, a duty that is obviously very important to him. It also makes me think that he's so duty-driven that it might even be unhealthy. Why just leave forever and never see his friends again? How busy is it up there? It surely can't be so much so that he can't see his friends again. He may actually be so one-track-minded that it's a detriment to his health, and while he was fine up until he had to fix Star Road with Mario and company, meeting them and making buddies signaled a shift in him.

But why? Why be so dedicated to the point that he fears spending even moments away from his home? Is he afraid of failing everyone, whether it's his higher-ups or the people whose wishes are depending on him... or both?

Man, all of this stuff could have been such interesting stuff for them to explore. He may not seem like much at first glance, but god, he's filled to the brim with untouched potential.
Here's another take I have on it, and it touches upon what you said.

Maybe the reason Geno keeps things to himself and is so duty-driven is because the society up in Star Road is a totalitarian one. I know, very wild and out there theory, but I think that'd be cool to explore in a Mario RPG. Geno is forced to do his job, otherwise he may face punishment. He hesitates when saying "I serve... a higher authority" because even mere mention of this dictator hurts him. Or he hates this figure so much that mentioning them by name is out of the question for him.

This could also explain why Geno was so somber at the end of Mario RPG. When he was with Mario and friends, it was like a whole different life for him, almost like he was free even though he still had a mission to complete. The reason Geno can't go back to visit is because he's not allowed to; he was sent to Earth because there was a mission to complete and now that it's over, there would be no purpose for Geno to return thus he isn't allowed to unless something else involving the Star Road on Earth were to occur.

A bit dark but, hey, that's something else.
 

TheCJBrine

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I like the idea that Geno is some sort-of angel.

edit: idk about the secretive stuffs, maybe he has a close relationship with the "higher authority" and doesn't want to say much about it all 'cause he's personal about it, but is still sad to leave Earth and his new friends.
 
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Ze Diglett

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Here's another take I have on it, and it touches upon what you said.

Maybe the reason Geno keeps things to himself and is so duty-driven is because the society up in Star Road is a totalitarian one. I know, very wild and out there theory, but I think that'd be cool to explore in a Mario RPG. Geno is forced to do his job, otherwise he may face punishment. He hesitates when saying "I serve... a higher authority" because even mere mention of this dictator hurts him. Or he hates this figure so much that mentioning them by name is out of the question for him.

This could also explain why Geno was so somber at the end of Mario RPG. When he was with Mario and friends, it was like a whole different life for him, almost like he was free even though he still had a mission to complete. The reason Geno can't go back to visit is because he's not allowed to; he was sent to Earth because there was a mission to complete and now that it's over, there would be no purpose for Geno to return thus he isn't allowed to unless something else involving the Star Road on Earth were to occur.

A bit dark but, hey, that's something else.
So, basically, Star Road is the in-universe Square Enix? Alright, then.
 

The Anigriffin

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I've noticed that Geno has a couple of signs of keeping things firmly to himself, and that does resonate with me now that you brought up his higher authority. At the end of the game, before entering Smithy's factory, he is very hesitant and somber about leaving. However, he doesn't vocalize it too much and tries to trudge on anyway.

In my headcanon, he's reluctant about anyone shouldering burdens that should be his and his alone. His sadness over leaving his new friends behind is something he doesn't want them to know in full. He doesn't want them to suffer for him when he's doing his job, a duty that is obviously very important to him. It also makes me think that he's so duty-driven that it might even be unhealthy. Why just leave forever and never see his friends again? How busy is it up there? It surely can't be so much so that he can't see his friends again. He may actually be so one-track-minded that it's a detriment to his health, and while he was fine up until he had to fix Star Road with Mario and company, meeting them and making buddies signaled a shift in him.

But why? Why be so dedicated to the point that he fears spending even moments away from his home? Is he afraid of failing everyone, whether it's his higher-ups or the people whose wishes are depending on him... or both?

Man, all of this stuff could have been such interesting stuff for them to explore. He may not seem like much at first glance, but god, he's filled to the brim with untouched potential.
You must be in my brain or something as I remember headcanoning him in a really similar fashion and you somehow said it perfectly.

It's been so long since my first initial obsession with SMRPG that I can't remember all my original headcanons and that makes me sad. I do remember being in a really long RP with a friend though which involved Geno basically talking care of a child like Gaz, so I've also headcanoned him as VERY protective of those he cares about. A little guard doll if you will.

Damn... 2011 honestly doesn't seem like that long ago to me, but I guess it really is isn't it?


Here's another take I have on it, and it touches upon what you said.

Maybe the reason Geno keeps things to himself and is so duty-driven is because the society up in Star Road is a totalitarian one. I know, very wild and out there theory, but I think that'd be cool to explore in a Mario RPG. Geno is forced to do his job, otherwise he may face punishment. He hesitates when saying "I serve... a higher authority" because even mere mention of this dictator hurts him. Or he hates this figure so much that mentioning them by name is out of the question for him.

Holy **** I also had this exact thought as well and that feeds into my "Rebellious Star Guardian" headcanon.
Are both of y'all in my head or something?
 
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Ovaltine

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You must be in my brain or something as I remember headcanoning him in a really similar fashion and you somehow said it perfectly.

It's been so long since my first initial obsession with SMRPG that I can't remember all my original headcanons and that makes me sad. I do remember being in a really long RP with a friend though which involved Geno basically talking care of a child like Gaz, so I've also headcanoned him as VERY protective of those he cares about. A little guard doll if you will.

Damn... 2011 honestly doesn't seem like that long ago to me, but I guess it really is isn't it?
2011... was eight years ago... Girl, you makin' me feel older than I actually am, oh my god. It was THAT long ago? Where did the time go?! Come back, time! :mad088:

Also, the way Geno treats Gaz in SMRPG is with such understanding and patience. I can only imagine that he must be great at feeling for and caring for children. Part of me thinks, hmm, what if it's because Geno has a far more child-like side that he has to keep at bay, due to his important purpose? Maybe he didn't get to experience much of a 'childhood' either. If he's connected to the star kids of Starborn Valley, maybe he ascended to Star Haven pretty early.
 

The Anigriffin

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2011... was eight years ago... Girl, you makin' me feel older than I actually am, oh my god. It was THAT long ago? Where did the time go?! Come back, time! :mad088:

Also, the way Geno treats Gaz in SMRPG is with such understanding and patience. I can only imagine that he must be great at feeling for and caring for children. Part of me thinks, hmm, what if it's because Geno has a far more child-like side that he has to keep at bay, due to his important purpose? Maybe he didn't get to experience much of a 'childhood' either. If he's connected to the star kids of Starborn Valley, maybe he ascended to Star Haven pretty early.
I was a freshman in Highschool in 2011. I'm still wondering where the time went honestly. Felt like AGES to get out of Highschool. Now I'm in my senior year in college and I'm like this every time I remember that fact.

 

GillyGrime

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
 

Datboigeno

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I was a freshman in Highschool in 2011. I'm still wondering where the time went honestly. Felt like AGES to get out of Highschool. Now I'm in my senior year in college and I'm like this every time I remember that fact.

In 2011 I had just finished my 3rd year of college. Imagine how I feel reading this...

all-those-moments-5c4bb2.jpg
 
D

Deleted member

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Bit of a loaded question, but...

:ultkingdedede:
:ultlittlemac:
:ultsimon:
:ultkrool:
It's crazy to look back and see all of the characters I was originally super hyped for when they were revealed and shown off.

:ultmetaknight::ultwario::ultdiddy::ultsonic::ultolimar::ulttoonlink::ultvillager::ultmegaman::ultlittlemac::ultmiifighters::ultpalutena::ultpacman::ultganondorf::ultkrool:

OoT Ganon returning with a sword feels like a newcomer to me don't @ me

E: Quoted the wrong person. Whoops
 
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The Anigriffin

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
Well Brawl was my first, but eh what the hell I’ll count Smash 4 DLC anyway.

:ultmegaman: Mega Man (Smash 4)
:ultpalutena: Palutena (Smash 4)
:ultdarkpit: Dark Pit (Smash 4)
:ultbowserjr: Bowser Jr. (Smash 4)
:ultmewtwo: Mewtwo (Smash 4 DLC)
:ultlucas: Lucas (Smash 4 DLC)
:ultroy: Roy (Smash 4 DLC)
:ultwolf: Wolf (Ultimate)
:ultridley: Ridley (Ultimate)
:ultkrool: K Rool (Ultimate)


Here’s hoping for Claus/Ninten and Geno!

In 2011 I had just finished my 3rd year of college. Imagine how I feel reading this...

View attachment 195297
I am so sorry.
 
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NintendoKnight

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So, here's what we know of the "higher authorities" of the Mario universe:

1. Geno's Higher Authority. They manage the Star Road (which grants wishes), and Geno is an agent of their civilization. They are fully aware of Smithy and his inter-dimensional gang of living weaponry and planetary conquerors. (Space is rather vast, but it would be interesting to know if Rosalina ever encountered Exor as she traveled the cosmos on her Comet Observatory. Would be a fascinating incident, though quite troublesome on Rosalina's part.) Geno, again being an agent of this civilization, intentionally withheld information on them from Mario, Bowser, Peach and Mallow. Take note that three of these—Peach, Bowser, and Mallow—are all primary royals of specific kingdoms. Mallow is literally the prince of the sky, his kingdom is closest to the Star Road, and Bowser's Kingdom is directly under the Star Road and is the target of Smithy's invasion force.

Geno is the only star being whose association is hush-hush, as if it's far beyond confidential to speak about with the planet dwellers/non-star beings.

2. The Star Spirits. They watch over the Star Rod from their place in Star Haven, and also grant wishes themselves. Each Star Spirit, in tandem, can all grant wishes, but the Star Rod by itself can grant any wish of its wielder. The Star Haven is located up in the atmosphere like the Star Road is. Mario actually gets to visit Star Haven and even gets to learn a lot about the Star Spirits, as they make a point to speak with Mario as candidly as possible. Nothing is confidential for them and any and all information they can share with Mario proves to be to their benefit. A thing to note, however, is that as of Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, the canon for Paper Mario and Super Mario has been divided. Which makes the existence of the Star Spirits, Star Haven, and the Star Rod to be exclusively in the Paper Mario world... until you play Mario Party 5, which takes place in the Super Mario world, and the Star Spirits (the exact ones from Paper Mario) were the hosts of the Party. Thus, the Star Spirits are proven to exist simultaneously in both the Paper Mario world and the Super Mario world.

3. The Star Sprites. Starlow is one of these beings, and they are the group that sealed away the Dark Star. This is really all that's known about them. It's not even mentioned if they can grant wishes or not or what sort of an authority they are in comparison to the other Star being associations. But they're mentioned by name, an image of them sealing the Dark Star is shown, and Starlow is a prominent (and a somewhat overused) member of their society.

Now, I do not think it needs to be mentioned but I will mention it just in case: Princess Rosalina is not a higher authority like these three listed here (if the Star Sprites even count as a higher authority). She's merely a space nomad whom adopts Lumas. If Geno and Rosalina were ever to meet, he'd likely treat her with the same respect he gave Peach, Mallow, and Bowser, but wouldn't refer to her in any sort of authoritative manner. She's just another person living in their universe.

None of these higher authorities seem to have anything to do with each other, unless Geno's higher authority was revealed to be either the Star Spirits or Star Sprites all along, but it would contradict the story told to us in M&L:BIS, PM64, and SMRPG. The Star Spirits do not manage the Star Road that Geno had to reconstruct. The Star Sprites only sealed away the Dark Star, and Starlow herself has "star power" but its not clarified in its function.

TL;DR: the Mario series has a confusing and overly complicated Cosmic Pantheon that needs to get their stories straight. This doesn't even cover all the individual star beings that pop-up here and there like the Millennium Star from Mario Party 3, whom has apparently the authority to declare the undisputed "Superstar of the Universe." It may not mean much, but Geno is technically the first Star being Mario ever encountered and thus set the bar pretty high for what we expect of agents like him.
 

Piks

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Brawl hit a lot of my most-wanted characters (Olimar and ROB in particular), but Smash 4 and onwards have had a lot of picks I really really wanted. Some highlights (probably not all of 'em, but the ones off the top of my head)

:ultsimon: - (As a Rondo of Blood fan,:ultrichter: was a nice surprise)
:ultmegaman: - Simon and Mega Man both are from games that defined the NES and SNES - so much so that I associate the console with their games. So even if they aren't Nintendo characters, they fit in perfectly with the first-party characters.
:ultlittlemac: - Punch Out was another game that truly defined the NES, and having such an iconic character was amazing.
:ultpalutena: - Kid Icarus is an underrated game, and the reboot was a good chance to add Palutena.
:ultcloud: - The biggest Final Fantasy character coming to Smash? Really was excited for it.
:ultbayonetta: - Loved Bayonetta 1 and 2, and thought she should get in after basically becoming a 2nd party character.
:ultpacman: - VIdeo game icon, enough said

Including Brawl:
:ultrob:
:ultolimar:
 
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Lime3037

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?
:ultwario::ultkingdedede::ultwolf::ultdiddy::ultolimar::ultmetaknight::ultsonic:
:ultvillager::ultlittlemac::ultmegaman::ultpacman::ultpalutena::ultryu:
:ultkrool::ultridley::ultincineroar::ultchrom::ultdaisy:
These are all characters I've had on a wishlist at some point. I didn't start making wishlists until after Melee, so it fits perfectly with your question.
 
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EarlTamm

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I just had a thought. Geno has never showed up for any crisis besides the one event that broke Star Road. Now of course, in a meta way, this is because of Nintendo and Square having a divorce and Square legally getting custody of the kids they had. But from an in lore stand point, that does kinda say something about the authority that Geno serves. They never get involved in things unless the events directly involves them. The world could be assaulted by aliens, threatened by darkness from the Dark Star or be in chaos from any number of the takeovers that Bowser has tried to pull(Two of which were universe wide conquests), and this society/entity will still not do anything to help. Or at the very least, not anything we know of.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
Brawl::wolf::sonic:.
Smash 4::4megaman::4littlemac:.

Ultimate::ultsimon::ultridley::ultkrool:.

Quite the small number if i said so myself.
 

Ovaltine

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
BRAWL
:ultdiddy::ultsonic::ultkingdedede:

SM4SH
:ultmegaman::ultrosalina::ultlittlemac::ultpalutena::ultbowserjr::ultmewtwo:

ULTIMATE
:ultinkling::ultridley::ultkrool:

These made me so happy. Funny enough, the weakest Smash in my opinion ended up making me the most satisfied in terms of favorite newcomer quantity, whereas Ultimate trumps all of it by giving me K. Rool and Ridley. Inkling was expected, but I wanted them a lot all the same. I just knew they were a lock, so they weren't as hype as the other two.

Here's hoping Ultimate can go that extra mile and give me Geno and Banjo as DLC!
 
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GillyGrime

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I'm forever grateful Sakurai made Olimar playable and didn't chuck him in assist trophy hell. As a kid who grew up loving Pikmin, I was stoked to see him show up on the Smash Bros Dojo.

Also I'm surprised Duck Hunt Dog wasn't so popular in the Smash Bros community. Couldn't help but love that cute little mutt, and his salt inducing laugh.
 

Ovaltine

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Characters I actively supported until release:

:ultdiddy::ultisabelle::ultkingdedede::ultlittlemac::ultmegaman::ultpalutena::ultridley::ultwario:

Characters I gave up on before release:

:ultiggy::ultvillager:
I mean this with all affection intended, but please give up on Geno, because then, he might become an Iggy or VIllager situation and finally make it. :4pacman: You can go back to supporting him if it doesn't work!

Alternatively, we need to commence summoning circles.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Excellent. Now, while you are here, I want your literal expert insight on something. The argument that was being made before was that, even though stats of characters can change, there really wasn't any examples of a ton of stats changing significantly all at once. Pirahana Plant's run speed is an outlier. From what I saw, the stats of PP were almost identical from what they were when the game launched, with some minor changes. Since only a handful of people manged to get their hands on the prerelease data, like yourself, were there any other significant changes aside from run speed?
walk add accel 0.03 > 0.05
walk max speed 0.56 >0.76
base run accel 0.02 > 0.06
max run speed you know this already
jump heights all significantly changed
gravity 0.085 > 0.14
fall speed 1.6 > 1.95
ff speed 2.56 > 2.73
weight 94 > 112
number of jumps 3 > 2
landing lag for every move changed

theres actually a huge number of things that changed from 1.0.0 but iStop listing or I'll be here all day.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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My headcanon is that Geno is in Smash but nobody has unlocked him yet.
My man, that Brawl joke is at least a decade late. :p

That said, even if he isn't a playable character, I hope we get his costume back. Hell, if he does become DLC playable, I still want his costume anyway. It was kickass.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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My man, that Brawl joke is at least a decade late. :p

That said, even if he isn't a playable character, I hope we get his costume back. Hell, if he does become DLC playable, I still want his costume anyway. It was kickass.
There you go, gotta have small goals in case nothing substantial happens. There's little reason to withhold the costume when the property is at least half-Nintendo anyway.
 
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The Anigriffin

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I mean this with all affection intended, but please give up on Geno, because then, he might become an Iggy or VIllager situation and finally make it. :4pacman: You can go back to supporting him if it doesn't work!

Alternatively, we need to commence summoning circles.
I made a summoning circle for Ninten actually. Hasn't worked to get him in yet but he hasn't been outright deconfirmed yet soooooo....
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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There you go, gotta have small goals in case nothing substantial happens. There's little reason to withhold the costume when the property is at least half-Nintendo anyway.
Er... the property is still fully Square-Enix. No matter how Geno is used, they need SE's permission. No ifs, ands, or buts. That includes using him as a costume, despite the base game stuff. That's a new agreement. That said, it is possible that Geno could have costume DLC as part of the licensing they already did. There's nothing to suggest the licensing for some MIi costumes weren't done fairly early on. They're just DLC cause the companies wanted to be paid more for their IP usage. Which makes sense. The only thing we know is that the licensing for playable DLC characters were decided upon near the end of Ultimate's development(or was that after it was fully done? I forget the exact dates).
 

Ovaltine

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Er... the property is still fully Square-Enix. No matter how Geno is used, they need SE's permission. No ifs, ands, or buts. That includes using him as a costume, despite the base game stuff. That's a new agreement. That said, it is possible that Geno could have costume DLC as part of the licensing they already did. There's nothing to suggest the licensing for some MIi costumes weren't done fairly early on. They're just DLC cause the companies wanted to be paid more for their IP usage. Which makes sense. The only thing we know is that the licensing for playable DLC characters were decided upon near the end of Ultimate's development(or was that after it was fully done? I forget the exact dates).
At this point, it's very vague as to whether or not the DLC was decided around then, earlier, or whatever. The tweet Sakurai made in both English and Japanese doesn't give too much indication. Given Rex, I'd honestly think that at least some of the DLC had to have been decided at a point where it was too late to include Rex as a full-on character.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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At this point, it's very vague as to whether or not the DLC was decided around then, earlier, or whatever. The tweet Sakurai made in both English and Japanese doesn't give too much indication. Given Rex, I'd honestly think that at least some of the DLC had to have been decided at a point where it was too late to include Rex as a full-on character.
That's the only one other than at best PP that is clear they were decided during some early points.

The Fighter's Pass appears to indicate it was late development/after the game got gold, but I do think some might've been figured out a bit earlier. One possibility is Minecraft content, namely because this could be why there was so much conflicting reports on the content in the base game. There were talks, but those talks had nothing specific that went through at that point, or it wasn't known by whoever informed Verge and other leakers. So basically, there was talk about the idea of having Minecraft content. But that's all the leakers heard and let Hitagi/Verge/etc. know. They never knew beyond that. Due to this possibility, I think Steve could be in, but Verge never actually knew that for sure because he never had hard information, just speculation of possibilities of what could happen.

...I feel like I'm not explaining it well enough. >.<
 

Ovaltine

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That's the only one other than at best PP that is clear they were decided during some early points.

The Fighter's Pass appears to indicate it was late development/after the game got gold, but I do think some might've been figured out a bit earlier. One possibility is Minecraft content, namely because this could be why there was so much conflicting reports on the content in the base game. There were talks, but those talks had nothing specific that went through at that point, or it wasn't known by whoever informed Verge and other leakers. So basically, there was talk about the idea of having Minecraft content. But that's all the leakers heard and let Hitagi/Verge/etc. know. They never knew beyond that. Due to this possibility, I think Steve could be in, but Verge never actually knew that for sure because he never had hard information, just speculation of possibilities of what could happen.

...I feel like I'm not explaining it well enough. >.<
Naw, I get what you're saying. Honestly, I think we're getting some kind of Minecraft content, even if I'm not too sure if I'd be willing to throw in my hat on Steve. Minecraft representation outside of a playable character seems insanely likely, though, to the point that I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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You know, when you sit down to think about it, the side theme of obeying an authority isn't just limited to SMRPG, as far as Square games go. It seems to be semi-recurring.

Take the following games. Being a Keyblade user in Kingdom Hearts has a rough set of guidelines, with Sora having even been explicitly told not to interfere with the problems faced by the inhabitants of other worlds, early on in the series. Final Fantasy IV starts with Cecil, the-then captain of the Red Wings, having severe guilt over obeying his adoptive king father's most recent orders (which involve pillaging and razing other towns). Final Fantasy VI starts with the brainwashed Terra working alongside Biggs and Wedge in the name of the totalitarian Gestahlian Empire. Final Fantasy VIII has you be in the shoes of military school students (with even one of their teachers joining the party) that are directly involved in a war with a different military organisation.
 
D

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walk add accel 0.03 > 0.05
walk max speed 0.56 >0.76
base run accel 0.02 > 0.06
max run speed you know this already
jump heights all significantly changed
gravity 0.085 > 0.14
fall speed 1.6 > 1.95
ff speed 2.56 > 2.73
weight 94 > 112
number of jumps 3 > 2
landing lag for every move changed

theres actually a huge number of things that changed from 1.0.0 but iStop listing or I'll be here all day.
That falls in line with the stats changing argument. Neat.
 

xpnc

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?
For Brawl:
:ultkingdedede::ultolimar::ultsonic::ultlucas:

Smash 4:
:ultvillager::ultmegaman:

Ultimate:
:ultridley::ultkrool:

Smash 4 had the highest proportion of disappointing reveals.
 

FLGibsonIII

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Well, we already know that they can as early as Smash 4 where Cloud's height changed before his reveal. It's not unreasonable to assume they can do so with this DLC as well.
Yeah, but the frequency of such things matters imo. It shows us the probability of height just being a placeholder. Is it a thing that can be changed, but not usually (meaning it is probably rare fine tuning), or is it almost always changed (meaning it is a placeholder). The amount the height changes in patches also shows us how drastic a change we can expect in the future. Whether a character can change from Ness to Mario or Ness to Bowser is important. To know if there is a range we can expect in terms of height.

walk add accel 0.03 > 0.05
walk max speed 0.56 >0.76
base run accel 0.02 > 0.06
max run speed you know this already
jump heights all significantly changed
gravity 0.085 > 0.14
fall speed 1.6 > 1.95
ff speed 2.56 > 2.73
weight 94 > 112
number of jumps 3 > 2
landing lag for every move changed

theres actually a huge number of things that changed from 1.0.0 but iStop listing or I'll be here all day.
PP is really bad even now, so it kinda surprises me how undertuned he was in the beginning of his development.
 

Megadoomer

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
Brawl: :metaknight::dedede::warioc::sonic:
Smash 4: :4bayonetta::4littlemac::4megaman:
Ultimate: :ultridley::ultkrool:

Just counting newcomers, as opposed to returning characters who were previously cut. (I loved the fact that Mewtwo and Snake returned, but I didn't really know who Snake was until after Brawl's announcement)
 

egaddmario

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
So I actually found a list of characters I wanted in Smash the other day from early 2007. Everyone in some way shape or form is in now, whether playable or assist trophy or just a spirit.

:ultolimar::ultridley::ultkrool::ultbowserjr::ultvillager::ultlittlemac:Waluigi, Isaac, Krystal, and Geno.
 

AugustusB

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Came back from hiatus. Hope you GenoBros and GenoGals aren't losing any faith now?

Though I may have come to terms, I won't lose hope for a potential reveal.

Also, I think it was here, but my perfect icon/avatar would be Snake holding a pie, in an apron and with a stern look as always.
 

TheBeastHimself

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Another question to cure my boredom. Which of your previously most wanted characters made the cut from Brawl onwards?

For me, in descending order of most wanted:
- K Rool (Ultimate)
- Sonic (Brawl)
- Duck Hunt Dog (Sm4sh)
- Olimar (Brawl)
- Diddy Kong (Brawl)
- Megaman (Sm4sh)
- Pacman (Sm4sh)
Brawl: :dedede::metaknight::wario::diddy::sonic:

Sm4sh: :4bowserjr::4duckhunt::4villager::4littlemac:

Ultimate: :ultridley::ultkrool::ultken:

I was a little **** around the time Brawl was announced. One thing I do remember is really wanting Croc, Spyro, and Frogger in the game because their games on the PS1 were top notch. For Smash 4, Little Mac was definitely one of my most wanted and I still remember that February 2014 direct when he was announced right off the bat, his trailer was hype as hell. I also saw people talking about the idea of Duck Hunt Dog and I just thought it would be hilarious. I didn't know what the dog would do because all he ever does is catch ducks and laugh at you, but lo and behold, Sakurai pulled through. I wanted Villager just because Animal Crossing Wild World is so nostalgic for me and I have a lot of love for the series. For Ultimate, I just wanted the fan favorites to get in because they honestly deserved it at this point, and Ken... Ken was a big surprise for me even after all the leaks. I remember playing Street Fighter on Xbox with some buds during the Smash 4 speculation phase, and I was played as Ken. I remember thinking to myself "man if Ken got into Smash that would be awesome, he could use his Shoryuken as his recovery" and both things ended up happening with this game. At the time, I didn't know Ryu was the mascot of the series, I thought it was Ken.
 
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