Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EricTheGamerman]

I know I'm going to buy every character in Smash because it's the one exception in which Sakurai has instilled in me a genuine confidence in his ability to produce unique and interesting characters. So I bought the Fighter's Pass last night. Yeah, $5 isn't much in savings, but there's basically no scenario in which I can imagine them bringing a character I don't want or am completely uninterested in. I have too wide of a love of gaming for that to really be possible. Characters and stages are meaningful content additions to me, so again, I'm going to buy them and will not regret it later on.

That said, I find the Fighter's Pass and Season Passes in general to be less egregious than most things. It's the exact same concept as Season Tickets to a certain Sports team's season. You know you'll have access to a certain number of games, but there's never a guarantee of how well your team will perform or if you'll enjoy them all at the same level, but you buy it because you know you're interested in the whole season and want to save some money. That's the same thing with the Fighter's Pass, they did clearly state what you're getting in the Fighter's Pass without announcing the specific franchises or characters. But they promised a season of content with certain things. You will get exactly what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less. You're specific enjoyment of those aspects and content will vary from person to person and are not guaranteed.

 

[ZelDan]

I like alot of the ideas for a SMRPG remake. I'd like to see Luigi added as a playable character. they could even have a cute cutscene when you run across Luigi's wish on Star Hill.

 

[Deleted member]

Make Wario a playable character in a Marip RPG remake/sequel

 

[Loliko YnT]

Make Wario a playable character in a Marip RPG remake/sequel

**cough**Wario interacting with Booster**cough**

Also it would be hilarious if Waluigi's was the chef who made the wedding cake.

 

[Datboigeno]

I know I'm going to buy every character in Smash because it's the one exception in which Sakurai has instilled in me a genuine confidence in his ability to produce unique and interesting characters. So I bought the Fighter's Pass last night. Yeah, $5 isn't much in savings, but there's basically no scenario in which I can imagine them bringing a character I don't want or am completely uninterested in. I have too wide of a love of gaming for that to really be possible. Characters and stages are meaningful content additions to me, so again, I'm going to buy them and will not regret it later on.

That said, I find the Fighter's Pass and Season Passes in general to be less egregious than most things. It's the exact same concept as Season Tickets to a certain Sports team's season. You know you'll have access to a certain number of games, but there's never a guarantee of how well your team will perform or if you'll enjoy them all at the same level, but you buy it because you know you're interested in the whole season and want to save some money. That's the same thing with the Fighter's Pass, they did clearly state what you're getting in the Fighter's Pass without announcing the specific franchises or characters. But they promised a season of content with certain things. You will get exactly what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less. You're specific enjoyment of those aspects and content will vary from person to person and are not guaranteed.

I don't really see the point of advocating for less information to be given about what customers are being asked to purchase than not. Like, plenty of games have their DLC characters fully announced ahead of a game's launch. Mortal Kombat/Injustice and Street Fighter have both taken to announcing and/or at least hinting at what will be included in a pass of fighters. It's one thing if a game studio is still deciding on the content prior to release, but that's not what's going on. That's the difference between the Fighter's Pass and your sports analogy. It's already been officially stated that Nintendo has the specific characters set for the fighter's pass. There's literally no reason for them to have not told people what's going to be in the pass prior to launch. Withholding information from customers about what exactly they're going to be buying when that information is available internally is really scummy. There's the whole philosophy of voting with your wallet. You can have a wide love of gaming and still not be interested in purchasing a specific character and instead saving the money you would have spent on them for something you are actually interested in. If people aren't fans of certain characters or franchises it wouldn't really behoove them to spend money on something like that would it?

 

[Deleted member]

**cough**Wario interacting with Booster**cough**

Also it would be hilarious if Waluigi's was the chef who made the wedding cake.

Wario and Booster would be a great interaction

 

[Deleted member]

I think it'd be neat if they had a secret dungeon referencing areas and characters in the other Mario RPGs, like Cackletta and Shadow Queen.

 

[ForsakenM]

I don't really see the point of advocating for less information to be given about what customers are being asked to purchase than not. Like, plenty of games have their DLC characters fully announced ahead of a game's launch. Mortal Kombat/Injustice and Street Fighter have both taken to announcing and/or at least hinting at what will be included in a pass of fighters. It's one thing if a game studio is still deciding on the content prior to release, but that's not what's going on. That's the difference between the Fighter's Pass and your sports analogy. It's already been officially stated that Nintendo has the specific characters set for the fighter's pass. There's literally no reason for them to have not told people what's going to be in the pass prior to launch. Withholding information from customers about what exactly they're going to be buying when that information is available internally is really scummy. There's the whole philosophy of voting with your wallet. You can have a wide love of gaming and still not be interested in purchasing a specific character and instead saving the money you would have spent on them for something you are actually interested in. If people aren't fans of certain characters or franchises it wouldn't really behoove them to spend money on something like that would it?

I will always buy all of Smash's content. Why? Because I have friends who love Smash and are not financially able to get the game or system, like I am currently. So let's say DQ3 Protag is DLC and I don't give a **** about him. Welp, my buddy Dustin might be completely swooned and wants to play the character, but he doesn't have a Switch. Not only do I want the complete experience myself and not only does Sakurai always give us greatness in terms of devotion to design, but I would want my friends to be able to play the characters they like.

On top of that, if I want to hold tournaments or bigger parties or I move and make new friends, I want that whole package to share with them and I really don't feel like being the guy that says "Yeah, I don't have Erdrick because **** him and his series, go buy your own Switch and Smash and DLC if you wanna play him!"

 

[ZelDan]

I think it'd be neat if they had a secret dungeon referencing areas in the other Mario RPGs, like Cackletta and Shadow Queen.

Shadow Queen: "Hah, I got you now Mario, and you don't have the Crystal stars to save you now!"
*Seven Stars show up destroy Shadow Queen's defenses*
Shadow Queen: "OH ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?"

 

[Ovaltine]

In my case, I have only a couple of IRL friends, one who Smashes very casually, one less casually. The one who is more of a hardcore Smash fan like me doesn't really give a squat about Erdrick, yet we both love Joker and are both getting him. The casual one couldn't care less. That helps to boil down my decisions more to just me and my preferences, even better yet that my IRL bestie has very similar tastes to mine. (Both of us have Banjo as our most wanted DLC, and even though he doesn't want Geno, I've softened his opinion of the guy a lot.) That means, unless there's a character my sister (who still lives with me and the fam) wants that I don't, I can just make my own selfish cherry picks.

Heeheehee. Lacking a lot of friends has its benefits sometimes! Yay for being a repressed loser!

 

[Loliko YnT]

I will always buy all of Smash's content. Why? Because I have friends who love Smash and are not financially able to get the game or system, like I am currently. So let's say DQ3 Protag is DLC and I don't give a **** about him. Welp, my buddy Dustin might be completely swooned and wants to play the character, but he doesn't have a Switch. Not only do I want the complete experience myself and not only does Sakurai always give us greatness in terms of devotion to design, but I would want my friends to be able to play the characters they like.

On top of that, if I want to hold tournaments or bigger parties or I move and make new friends, I want that whole package to share with them and I really don't feel like being the guy that says "Yeah, I don't have Erdrick because **** him and his series, go buy your own Switch and Smash and DLC if you wanna play him!"

I wish I could say I can relate , but I only have one friend IRL...
I only see her every 2 months and she is most probably a main. And even , I think she would prefer Geno compared to Erdrick , just to make me happy xD

But also , I'll have to buy Joker because I can't use the in-game clip system for a replay including a DLC character I don't own. (Sorry Sakurai , but this one is just a **** move.)

 

[Datboigeno]

I will always buy all of Smash's content. Why? Because I have friends who love Smash and are not financially able to get the game or system, like I am currently. So let's say DQ3 Protag is DLC and I don't give a **** about him. Welp, my buddy Dustin might be completely swooned and wants to play the character, but he doesn't have a Switch. Not only do I want the complete experience myself and not only does Sakurai always give us greatness in terms of devotion to design, but I would want my friends to be able to play the characters they like.

On top of that, if I want to hold tournaments or bigger parties or I move and make new friends, I want that whole package to share with them and I really don't feel like being the guy that says "Yeah, I don't have Erdrick because **** him and his series, go buy your own Switch and Smash and DLC if you wanna play him!"

I mean, that's totally understandable. But there are those of us who would rather have the information than not when being asked to drop 20 dollars on something and would prefer to save our money if certain characters are taking up a slot. And right now there's no legitimate reason to not have that information given out is my point.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to see Chris Niosi voice acting Geno in Smash, yelling out all of Geno's attacks.

Joker: "PERSONA!"
Geno: "GENO WHIRL!"

 

[Ovaltine]

I want to see Chris Niosi voice acting Geno in Smash, yelling out all of Geno's attacks.

Joker: "PERSONA!"
Geno: "GENO WHIRL!"

God knows I would very annoyingly spam "GENO WHIRL!" over and over and tic everyone the heck off.

 

[Deleted member]

God knows I would very annoyingly spam "GENO WHIRL!" over and over and tic everyone the heck off.

You know I would do the same.

And, if you time it juuuuuuuuuuuuust right...

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I don't really see the point of advocating for less information to be given about what customers are being asked to purchase than not. Like, plenty of games have their DLC characters fully announced ahead of a game's launch. Mortal Kombat/Injustice and Street Fighter have both taken to announcing and/or at least hinting at what will be included in a pass of fighters. It's one thing if a game studio is still deciding on the content prior to release, but that's not what's going on. That's the difference between the Fighter's Pass and your sports analogy. It's already been officially stated that Nintendo has the specific characters set for the fighter's pass. There's literally no reason for them to have not told people what's going to be in the pass prior to launch. Withholding information from customers about what exactly they're going to be buying when that information is available internally is really scummy. There's the whole philosophy of voting with your wallet. You can have a wide love of gaming and still not be interested in purchasing a specific character and instead saving the money you would have spent on them for something you are actually interested in. If people aren't fans of certain characters or franchises it wouldn't really behoove them to spend money on something like that would it?

I'm not advocating for it as much as I'm just accepting the reality of our current gaming economy. The reason you hold off is for hype and let's face it, that just works as a business strategy and makes speculation more interesting. If they revealed everybody up front, I would ****ING hate to see the fallout of that situation. It'd be nothing but complaints about who did or did make it in at first, and then nothing but ******** about who does or doesn't come first. SmashBoards is already bad enough at times, imagine how bad things get when you have basically the November Direct situation again, but not with a game launching in a month, but a character that could be 14 months out and that would be the earliest speculation could be a thing again. That's a guaranteed way to kill hype for a game like Smash.

I don't necessarily love it either, but it's just our reality these days. And honestly, just announcing the names SHOULDN'T be enough. We need to see how these characters play too and they won't have that content ready. It takes time to make characters and they just aren't going to be ready at launch for a game like Smash (And some of those other's entries do have characters ready and are more scummy in intentionally holding them back for DLC). Like I know people here are going to probably buy Geno no matter what, but if Geno got announced for Smash and then he somehow ended up using exclusively a sword for no good reason, then you'd still be in the same situation.

The Fighter's Pass is there for the people who are confident in the fact they will purchase all the content or confident in Sakurai's vision. Sakurai completely emphasized just that point in the November Direct. I'll echo ForsakenM when I say that I'm also the person who tends to host Smash games, and I want a complete full version for everyone to play as well as myself. I know I'll buy all the characters regardless of who they are, so I'm glad they gave me the option to save even that $5. It's just an option. And I'm not saying you can't be against certain characters, I was just saying that there are extremely few characters that could disappoint me. That was entirely a subjective point as to why I was investing in the Pass now. I do vote with my wallet, I vote for more Sakurai produced, meaningful and substantial Smash content. The specifics of the characters are of less concern to me overall because again, I'm confident in Sakurai's ability to make interesting and unique newcomers.

I see both sides of the situation completely, I just don't think we should criticize the Fighter's Pass all that much. It's fairly inoffensive to the rest of the industry practices and especially the Mii costumes (lol). Also, if there wasn't a Fighter's Pass, would you still want all the character's revealed up front? I don't think inherently secret internal information is scummy unless you're referring to uninformed consumers buying the pass and then feeling hoodwinked afterwards. And with how Sakurai has been careful to state things a certain way, they're not really be anti-consumer as far as I can see.

 

[Firox]

I don't really see the point of advocating for less information to be given about what customers are being asked to purchase than not. Like, plenty of games have their DLC characters fully announced ahead of a game's launch. Mortal Kombat/Injustice and Street Fighter have both taken to announcing and/or at least hinting at what will be included in a pass of fighters. It's one thing if a game studio is still deciding on the content prior to release, but that's not what's going on. That's the difference between the Fighter's Pass and your sports analogy. It's already been officially stated that Nintendo has the specific characters set for the fighter's pass. There's literally no reason for them to have not told people what's going to be in the pass prior to launch. Withholding information from customers about what exactly they're going to be buying when that information is available internally is really scummy. There's the whole philosophy of voting with your wallet. You can have a wide love of gaming and still not be interested in purchasing a specific character and instead saving the money you would have spent on them for something you are actually interested in. If people aren't fans of certain characters or franchises it wouldn't really behoove them to spend money on something like that would it?

Seriously though, is there a logical reason why Nintendo didn't want to just state who would be in the pass? Look at what they did with Joker. "Oh, hey guys! Check it out! Joker's gonna be in!" Then they waited four months to unveil the gameplay and leave us with no other incentive to buy the pass. We have people climbing over each other to "leak" and speculate when Nintendo could have just said, "Ok, so the pass will have Joker, This guy, this girl and these ppl with their accompanying stages and music. If you like this line-up, save money on the pack. If not, buy them individual." It almost feels like they purposely left it a mystery because they felt like some of the picks would be controversial or something. I mean, I know it's way more hype when you don't know the reveal before it happens, but when you're selling a pass like this, it just doesn't make sense to risk ppl not buying for the exact reasons we stated before.

Oh, and just read Eric the Gamerman's response. The thing is, how would the fallout of pre-announcing the DLC be any worse than the fallout after? You still get tons of ppl ********, but one happens all at once while the other is spread across a year. LOGISTICALLY speaking, I don't see why pre-announcing isn't the better choice. It would have sold ppl like myself if they were simply honest and upfront. I can understand your point of view for buying all the content because you love the game, but why alienate all the sales they could have gotten from the skeptics?

 

[KoopaSaki]

Given the fact jokers coming tonight, there’s been a bunch of debate of whether or not spirits really do deconfirm along with Mii costumes. What’s everybody’s opinion on this now that we know each dlc newcomer comes with spirits?

 

[Deleted member]

I like alot of the ideas for a SMRPG remake. I'd like to see Luigi added as a playable character. they could even have a cute cutscene when you run across Luigi's wish on Star Hill.

Make Wario a playable character in a Marip RPG remake/sequel

**cough**Wario interacting with Booster**cough**

Also it would be hilarious if Waluigi's was the chef who made the wedding cake.

Wario, Luigi, and Waluigi as new party members in SMRPG remake pls

 

[Pokemaster73]

Given the fact jokers coming tonight, there’s been a bunch of debate of whether or not spirits really do deconfirm along with Mii costumes. What’s everybody’s opinion on this now that we know each dlc newcomer comes with spirits?

I still don't think it matters. If Mewtwo and Lucas can have trophies in SSB4 and become playable as DLC, so can Geno or whoever else. I think the only thing that truly deconfirms is Assist Trophies and maybe Mii Costumes. If Geno was added, his character spirit would probably just be his render and the rest of his spirits would just be other Mario RPG characters. If he is in, it would make sense to me as to why Geno and Mallow were the only Mario RPG characters represented by spirits; it would mean they were saving the rest for his DLC spirits.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Seriously though, is there a logical reason why Nintendo didn't want to just state who would be in the pass? Look what what they did with Joker. "Oh, hey guys! Check it out! Joker's gonna be in!" Then they waited four months to unveil the gameplay and leave us with no other incentive to buy the pass. We have people climbing over each other to "leak" and speculate when Nintendo could have just said, "Ok, so the pass will have Joker, This guy, this girl and these ppl with their accompanying stages and music. If you like this line-up, save money on the pack. If not, buy them individual." It almost feels like they purposely left it a mystery because they felt like some of the picks would be controversial or something. I mean, I know it's way more hype when you don't know the reveal before it happens, but when you're selling a pass like this, it just doesn't make sense to risk ppl not buying for the exact reasons we stated before.

Oh, and just read Eric the Gamerman's response. The thing is, how would the fallout of pre-announcing the DLC be any worse than the fallout after? You still get tons of ppl ********, but one happens all at once while the other is spread across a year. LOGISTICALLY speaking, I don't see why pre-announcing isn't the better choice. It would have sold ppl like myself if they were simply honest and upfront. I can understand your point of view for buying all the content because you love the game, but why alienate all the sales they could have gotten from the skeptics?

I mean, again, I can't emphasize this enough, The Fighter's Pass is just an option. You're not being told you have to buy it in way, shape, or form and it has become normalized in the industry to not necessarily reveal the specifics of the past and instead provide an overview. That way the consumer does KNOW what they're getting, but not who. I don't see the issue with the fact they as a company believe in revealing things when ready and in a timely manner, they're not forcing anyone to buy the pass just to get the DLC characters.

I'd also argue that the number of "skeptics" you sale on the pass by immediately revealing them all pales in comparison to the longterm benefits of creating additional hype cycles of reveals throughout the season. As a developer who is looking to make an evergreen title for their system, you want to create reasons for people to return to the game and spend more money. DLC cycles are perfect for that because they create moments with comparable hype to the base game of anticipation, speculation, and coverage. People get brought back into the hype because of all of those additional things and may be more likely to spend money. If you reveal up front, you've played your proverbial hand to early and allow consumers to check out immediately. There's no additional hype and no incentive for people to return to the game who weren't initially interested in the offerings. Think about it, if Geno nor Banjo weren't revealed to be a part of the Fighter's Pass, how many people would probably just not bother? But by holding that information back, you engage in the hype machine and contribute to a greater momentum and mystery. I have no doubt that Nintendo just wants as much conversation about the game as possible going on to keep it in the public conscious.

The Pass isn't necessarily supposed to be the predominate way of giving content to the consumer, it's just an option for the consumer and the type of option that traditionally sales very well. If you don't like the way it's handled, it's just not meant for your specific type of consumer. That's what the individual packs are for.

 

[SSGuy]

It may not mean anything to us at all, but I am going to be interested in seeing if the Tails Spirit Battle is changed in any way. It is currently Sonic and Fox but I want to see if they would replace it with the Mii Fighter. If this was the case, then it really opens the doors for a lot to happen with the spirits. It proves that they are able to change current Spirit Battles post game. This could include changing the name of spirit fighters or even removal of them. The ladder is less likely but it could very well be a sign they are willing to make adjustments towards spirits post game.

 

[Firox]

I'd also argue that the number of "skeptics" you sale on the pass by immediately revealing them all pales in comparison to the longterm benefits of creating additional hype cycles of reveals throughout the season. As a developer who is looking to make an evergreen title for their system, you want to create reasons for people to return to the game and spend more money.

There we go. That was the answer I was looking for. The advantage of holding out on reveals means that they can draw out the hype and keep people talking/coming back for more. In short, they WANT us to starve for information. They WANT us to scour the internet constantly for Smash news because that's how they keep us hooked. If we knew everything from the get go, we could just jump for joy (or not) and then move on until the release dates came around. Kinda diabolical when you sit back and look at it. Smart business move, but diabolical just the same. By keeping it all a mystery, they ensured that we Geno fans will lap up every morsel of info in hopes for the day it's finally the puppet boy's turn.

 

[ForsakenM]

I mean, that's totally understandable. But there are those of us who would rather have the information than not when being asked to drop 20 dollars on something and would prefer to save our money if certain characters are taking up a slot. And right now there's no legitimate reason to not have that information given out is my point.

O h I wish I knew who it was too, just so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm not advocating for it as much as I'm just accepting the reality of our current gaming economy. The reason you hold off is for hype and let's face it, that just works as a business strategy and makes speculation more interesting. If they revealed everybody up front, I would ****ING hate to see the fallout of that situation. It'd be nothing but complaints about who did or did make it in at first, and then nothing but ******** about who does or doesn't come first. SmashBoards is already bad enough at times, imagine how bad things get when you have basically the November Direct situation again, but not with a game launching in a month, but a character that could be 14 months out and that would be the earliest speculation could be a thing again. That's a guaranteed way to kill hype for a game like Smash.

I don't necessarily love it either, but it's just our reality these days. And honestly, just announcing the names SHOULDN'T be enough. We need to see how these characters play too and they won't have that content ready. It takes time to make characters and they just aren't going to be ready at launch for a game like Smash (And some of those other's entries do have characters ready and are more scummy in intentionally holding them back for DLC). Like I know people here are going to probably buy Geno no matter what, but if Geno got announced for Smash and then he somehow ended up using exclusively a sword for no good reason, then you'd still be in the same situation.

The Fighter's Pass is there for the people who are confident in the fact they will purchase all the content or confident in Sakurai's vision. Sakurai completely emphasized just that point in the November Direct. I'll echo ForsakenM when I say that I'm also the person who tends to host Smash games, and I want a complete full version for everyone to play as well as myself. I know I'll buy all the characters regardless of who they are, so I'm glad they gave me the option to save even that $5. It's just an option. And I'm not saying you can't be against certain characters, I was just saying that there are extremely few characters that could disappoint me. That was entirely a subjective point as to why I was investing in the Pass now. I do vote with my wallet, I vote for more Sakurai produced, meaningful and substantial Smash content. The specifics of the characters are of less concern to me overall because again, I'm confident in Sakurai's ability to make interesting and unique newcomers.

I see both sides of the situation completely, I just don't think we should criticize the Fighter's Pass all that much. It's fairly inoffensive to the rest of the industry practices and especially the Mii costumes (lol). Also, if there wasn't a Fighter's Pass, would you still want all the character's revealed up front? I don't think inherently secret internal information is scummy unless you're referring to uninformed consumers buying the pass and then feeling hoodwinked afterwards. And with how Sakurai has been careful to state things a certain way, they're not really be anti-consumer as far as I can see.

But the thing is that's not the reality. I just listed two examples of major fighting games that either straight up showed or hinted at what would be in their equivalents to a fighter's pass. So obviously it doesn't have to be the reality. They really don't need to have every character playable to show them off. Exhibit A would be Joker. We didn't get gameplay for him until literally yesterday and he launches this evening. All wee got was a cinematic months ago and it was enough for plenty of people. Again, there's no reason the character's couldn't have been hinted at or glimpsed. Not sure what point you're trying to make about Geno having a sword though.

Right, it is there for those people. But like I've said there's also precedent for the content of passes to be shown off prior to release especially when said content has been decided on. And yeah the rest of what you're saying is completely subjective. There are plenty of people who feel the same way you do and plenty that don't. There's just no genuine reason for them not to release the information if they're asking people to fork over 20 bucks for soemthing.

I'm not criticizing the existence of the Pass. I'm criticizing the decision not to give people information about its contents while asking people to trust them and invest in it. If there weren't a Fighter's Pass then it wouldn't be a big deal. But the fact is in this reality there is one so it is kind of a big deal. What I think is scummy is encouraging people to drop 20 dollars on something they don't know the contents of. The information I'm referring to is what characters are included in the pass. Sakurai made one comment in the direct where he basically said people would be taking a chance on buying the full pass without knowing its contents. But Nintendo itself has been pushing the pass pretty hard in that they've advertised it pre-launch and every opportunity afterwards. They most definitely are encouraging people to buy the pass without giving adequate information when they very clearly could.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

There we go. That was the answer I was looking for. The advantage of holding out on reveals means that they can draw out the hype and keep people talking/coming back for more. In short, they WANT us to starve for information. They WANT us to scour the internet constantly for Smash news because that's how they keep us hooked. If we knew everything from the get go, we could just jump for joy (or not) and then move on until the release dates came around. Kinda diabolical when you sit back and look at it. Smart business move, but diabolical just the same.

Well yeah, they're a business, they're still going to do things they perceive as beneficial from time to time. Especially when they generally expect people to have some patience and not whine every time they go a WHOLE two months without something new. It's not diabolical, and as far as corporations go, that word has no business being in this conversation. Companies do far, far, far ****tier and repulsive things to make sales. Making fans wait a little bit to see which character gets revealed seems like nothing. It's just a business strategy, one that I'd argue a lot of people actually enjoy because they enjoy speculation and the spectacle of a Smash cycle.

Stop trying to vilify Nintendo for having the "audacity to expect fans to be patient and engage in a little speculation."

 

[Ovaltine]

Not sure what point you're trying to make about Geno having a sword though.

Not even getting into the debate but y'all, listen, Geno with a light sword blasting from his gun made with star energy.

You can't deny how cool that would be.

 

[Datboigeno]

Not even getting into the debate but y'all, listen, Geno with a light sword blasting from his gun made with star energy.

You can't deny how cool that would be.

If we ever get an SMRPG sequel I would love for all the party to get new attacks and giving a light sword attack to Geno would be cool. Even in Smash I could see them giving him something like that considering he's going to have to have some sort of melee normals at his disposal. I could see it working like Megaman's Fire Sword or Slash Claw attacks.

 

[Firox]

Well yeah, they're a business, they're still going to do things they perceive as beneficial from time to time. Especially when they generally expect people to have some patience and not whine every time they go a WHOLE two months without something new. It's not diabolical, and as far as corporations go, that word has no business being in this conversation. Companies do far, far, far ****tier and repulsive things to make sales. Making fans wait a little bit to see which character gets revealed seems like nothing. It's just a business strategy, one that I'd argue a lot of people actually enjoy because they enjoy speculation and the spectacle of a Smash cycle.

Stop trying to vilify Nintendo for having the "audacity to expect fans to be patient and engage in a little speculation."

Geez, relax there, Tex. Fanboy much? I'm wasn't trying to straight up "vilify" Nintendo, but can openly disagree with their methods. I still think it's stupid not to just tell us upfront what the DLC is because if they had they could have sold the skeptics since ppl like you buy whatever they spew out no matter what anyway. And btw, when you said that they told us what was in the pass, that was pretty vague. They didn't tell us crap, except for the fact that they wouldn't make any more clones and that they would do their best to meet our expectations. That doesn't really tell me anything about what I'm buying. And no, I don't share your faith in all of Sakurai's choices. Sometimes they're great. Sometimes they flat out suck, but that's just my opinion. I mean, did you know that they're selling PP for $5 for those that didn't get him free? $5?! That's WITHOUT any additional music or stages while Joker is selling for $6. No way I'd ever pay for that. Nintendo's a business, but don't underestimate their greed. I won't play the apologist and justify when they do stupid stuff like that.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

But the thing is that's not the reality. I just listed two examples of major fighting games that either straight up showed or hinted at what would be in their equivalents to a fighter's pass. So obviously it doesn't have to be the reality. They really don't need to have every character playable to show them off. Exhibit A would be Joker. We didn't get gameplay for him until literally yesterday and he launches this evening. All wee got was a cinematic months ago and it was enough for plenty of people. Again, there's no reason the character's couldn't have been hinted at or glimpsed. Not sure what point you're trying to make about Geno having a sword though.

Right, it is there for those people. But like I've said there's also precedent for the content of passes to be shown off prior to release especially when said content has been decided on. And yeah the rest of what you're saying is completely subjective. There are plenty of people who feel the same way you do and plenty that don't. There's just no genuine reason for them not to release the information if they're asking people to fork over 20 bucks for soemthing.

I'm not criticizing the existence of the Pass. I'm criticizing the decision not to give people information about its contents while asking people to trust them and invest in it. If there weren't a Fighter's Pass then it wouldn't be a big deal. But the fact is in this reality there is one so it is kind of a big deal. What I think is scummy is encouraging people to drop 20 dollars on something they don't know the contents of. The information I'm referring to is what characters are included in the pass. Sakurai made one comment in the direct where he basically said people would be taking a chance on buying the full pass without knowing its contents. But Nintendo itself has been pushing the pass pretty hard in that they've advertised it pre-launch and every opportunity afterwards. They most definitely are encouraging people to buy the pass without giving adequate information when they very clearly could.

I'm not really familiar with a fighting game that has shown off the entire season of content before release. And most of them are among the scummiest when it comes to character related stuff. DLC reveals tend to be pretty damn common place in situations like this.

The point I was making about Geno was this: You're contention is that people should know what the characters are before they buy them. But I don't think a name is enough. A character you like could very easily translate to a character you don't enjoy playing in Smash. Say they announce Geno and all of the Fighters in November with the Fighter's Pass. If he comes out in August of the next year, but Sakurai made him into another Marth semi-clone for no good reason, you'd probably be a little upset. I don't think a name is enough to "inform" the consumer and people have a tendency to overvalue the names and dreams of their own perceived characters rather than realizing that the move set should be just as an essential part (if not more so TBH, but I've gotten into that before) of being an informed consumer. You're still being sold something you don't know, you're just a little more confident in it.

Yeah, the Fighter's Pass is ever so slightly predatory, but again, it's not like its the only option you have to buy a character and was created for a very specific group of people who are less inclined to care and know they want all the content. I just don't see the issue, if you want to be an informed consumer and actually know what you're getting, just wait until the characters are shown off more properly. If not and you know you want the content, the Fighter's Pass might be for you. Investments in the future aren't inherently predatory unless they actually don't provide what they promised. And Nintendo will provide you with five characters and five stages as promised and work a good business strategy as they see fit to increase attention and hype.

I just don't see the complaint for it honestly.

 

[EarlTamm]

So, have you guys seen any more pretty cool Joker fan art. Found this.

Spoiler: Big Pic

Another great Joker crossover art piece, this time with masked characters!

Source:
https://mobile.twitter.com/sayoyonsayoyon/status/1118567515578220544

 

[GoodGrief741]

Given the fact jokers coming tonight, there’s been a bunch of debate of whether or not spirits really do deconfirm along with Mii costumes. What’s everybody’s opinion on this now that we know each dlc newcomer comes with spirits?

Leaning more and more towards Spirits disconfirming.

I'm not really familiar with a fighting game that has shown off the entire season of content before release. And most of them are among the scummiest when it comes to character related stuff. DLC reveals tend to be pretty damn common place in situations like this.

The point I was making about Geno was this: You're contention is that people should know what the characters are before they buy them. But I don't think a name is enough. A character you like could very easily translate to a character you don't enjoy playing in Smash. Say they announce Geno and all of the Fighters in November with the Fighter's Pass. If he comes out in August of the next year, but Sakurai made him into another Marth semi-clone for no good reason, you'd probably be a little upset. I don't think a name is enough to "inform" the consumer and people have a tendency to overvalue the names and dreams of their own perceived characters rather than realizing that the move set should be just as an essential part (if not more so TBH, but I've gotten into that before) of being an informed consumer. You're still being sold something you don't know, you're just a little more confident in it.

Yeah, the Fighter's Pass is ever so slightly predatory, but again, it's not like its the only option you have to buy a character and was created for a very specific group of people who are less inclined to care and know they want all the content. I just don't see the issue, if you want to be an informed consumer and actually know what you're getting, just wait until the characters are shown off more properly. If not and you know you want the content, the Fighter's Pass might be for you. Investments in the future aren't inherently predatory unless they actually don't provide what they promised. And Nintendo will provide you with five characters and five stages as promised and work a good business strategy as they see fit to increase attention and hype.

I just don't see the complaint for it honestly.

You're probably the only person who thinks the identity of the character isn't an instant sell.

 

[Mastadoom88]

In my case, I have only a couple of IRL friends, one who Smashes very casually, one less casually. The one who is more of a hardcore Smash fan like me doesn't really give a squat about Erdrick, yet we both love Joker and are both getting him. The casual one couldn't care less. That helps to boil down my decisions more to just me and my preferences, even better yet that my IRL bestie has very similar tastes to mine. (Both of us have Banjo as our most wanted DLC, and even though he doesn't want Geno, I've softened his opinion of the guy a lot.) That means, unless there's a character my sister (who still lives with me and the fam) wants that I don't, I can just make my own selfish cherry picks.

Heeheehee. Lacking a lot of friends has its benefits sometimes! Yay for being a repressed loser!

Same! I have my girlfriend who plays (also a Geno lover) and that's it. My two friends that own smash are super casual and literally dropped the game before PP even became playable. They dont like playing with me cause they say I take it take it "too seriously" (preferring to play without items and stage hazards) and they seem to hate playing any game I'm good at.

Their loss I say. and I'm not buying the pass because as has been stated I ddont much like having to take a gamble even if stuff I hate makes up the majority of the pass . I'll take Joker because I love Persona (eventhough i have a bias for P3) and see what else happens

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Geez, relax there, Tex. Fanboy much? I'm wasn't trying to straight up "vilify" Nintendo, but can openly disagree with their methods. I still think it's stupid not to just tell us upfront what the DLC is because if they had they could have sold the skeptics since ppl like you buy whatever they spew out no matter what anyway. And btw, when you said that they told us what was in the pass, that was pretty vague. They didn't tell us crap, except for the fact that they wouldn't make any more clones and that they would do their best to meet our expectations. That doesn't really tell me anything about what I'm buying. And no, I don't share your faith in all of Sakurai's choices. Sometimes they're great. Sometimes they flat out suck, but that's just my opinion. I mean, did you know that they're selling PP for $5 for those that didn't get him free? $5?! That's WITHOUT any additional music or stages while Joker is selling for $6. No way I'd ever pay for that. Nintendo's a business, but don't underestimate their greed. I won't play the apologist and justify when they do stupid stuff like that.

You called Nintendo’s standard business practice “diabolical.” Diabolical traditionally has pretty heavy negative connotations. That’s why I said you were trying to vilify them: word choice.

And that’s fine to not agree with the enthusiasm I have for Smash characters of all types or not share my trust in Sakurai. I never said you had to or even implied that. I’ve just used it to point out why I’ve made my own decisions in a certain way. I’m not going to just buy whatever they “spew out” (again, harsh connotations). And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have such a thing as a product that you as a consumer believe in because a franchise with a 20 year history has consistently done things to earn my confidence as a consumer. I’m making my own “informed choice” based upon my experience with Smash and with how they handled Joker. I don’t underestimate Nintendo’s greed, but I also think they’re one of the few companies that still produces generally good products and gives more of a **** about consumer satisfaction than many.

Again, I’m not saying that the practice of a season pass isn’t predatory in some ways. It’s certainly so, but they have told you exactly the type of content you’ll get. You’re not just investing into something completely blind, you know exactly what type of content you’ll get and why the pricing is done in the way it is. And I can’t really fault them for doing so when it’s sooo common in the industry.

I guess my disconnect is as to why it matter so much that they announce now or as soon as they put it on sale? 5 newcomers and 5 stages I’m sure is enough for most people to know if they’re interested anyway who don’t overly care about speculation or specific characters as much as we do.

It’s just an option to buy the pass and I don’t see the point in announcing characters so early and would prefer to see them closer to their actual releases is my point. Just showing them all off would actually be anti-hype for me (and I suspect others as well) when they’re ages out at best.

 

[Firox]

You called Nintendo’s standard business practice “diabolical.” Diabolical traditionally has pretty heavy negative connotations. That’s why I said you were trying to vilify them: word choice.

And that’s fine to not agree with the enthusiasm I have for Smash characters of all types or not share my trust in Sakurai. I never said you had to or even implied that. I’ve just used it to point out why I’ve made my own decisions in a certain way. I’m not going to just buy whatever they “spew out” (again, harsh connotations). And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have such a thing as a product that you as a consumer believe in because a franchise with a 20 year history has consistently done things to earn my confidence as a consumer. I’m making my own “informed choice” based upon my experience with Smash and with how they handled Joker. I don’t underestimate Nintendo’s greed, but I also think they’re one of the few companies that still produces generally good products and gives more of a **** about consumer satisfaction than many.

Again, I’m not saying that the practice of a season pass isn’t predatory in some ways. It’s certainly so, but they have told you exactly the type of content you’ll get. You’re not just investing into something completely blind, you know exactly what type of content you’ll get and why the pricing is done in the way it is. And I can’t really fault them for doing so when it’s sooo common in the industry.

I guess my disconnect is as to why it matter so much that they announce now or as soon as they put it on sale? 5 newcomers and 5 stages I’m sure is enough for most people to know if they’re interested anyway who don’t overly care about speculation or specific characters as much as we do.

It’s just an option to buy the pass and I don’t see the point in announcing characters so early and would prefer to see them closer to their actual releases is my point. Just showing them all off would actually be anti-hype for me (and I suspect others as well) when they’re ages out at best.

Fair enough. To each their own.

 

[Ovaltine]

I'll take Joker because I love Persona (eventhough i have a bias for P3) and see what else happens

Can't say I blame ya. Persona 3 is great. I think my bias is squarely on P5 now, though, because Joker's enamored me that much more than the prior protags. Minato Arisato (is he even still called that anymore?) is neat and all, and I have my liking for him for certain spoilery reasons, too. I also like Yu quite a bit because he's got some kind of air of charisma.

Joker, though? Holy mother of god, Joker. He's just bursting with personality despite being a mostly-silent protag. He's FULL of it. You can see it in every move he makes and everything he does. You know you've done character design well when you can tell what the character is like from showing and not telling.

STILL SO MAD ABOUT BURN MY DREAD MISSING THE BOAT AAAA I RIOT

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm not really familiar with a fighting game that has shown off the entire season of content before release. And most of them are among the scummiest when it comes to character related stuff. DLC reveals tend to be pretty damn common place in situations like this.

The point I was making about Geno was this: You're contention is that people should know what the characters are before they buy them. But I don't think a name is enough. A character you like could very easily translate to a character you don't enjoy playing in Smash. Say they announce Geno and all of the Fighters in November with the Fighter's Pass. If he comes out in August of the next year, but Sakurai made him into another Marth semi-clone for no good reason, you'd probably be a little upset. I don't think a name is enough to "inform" the consumer and people have a tendency to overvalue the names and dreams of their own perceived characters rather than realizing that the move set should be just as an essential part (if not more so TBH, but I've gotten into that before) of being an informed consumer. You're still being sold something you don't know, you're just a little more confident in it.

Yeah, the Fighter's Pass is ever so slightly predatory, but again, it's not like its the only option you have to buy a character and was created for a very specific group of people who are less inclined to care and know they want all the content. I just don't see the issue, if you want to be an informed consumer and actually know what you're getting, just wait until the characters are shown off more properly. If not and you know you want the content, the Fighter's Pass might be for you. Investments in the future aren't inherently predatory unless they actually don't provide what they promised. And Nintendo will provide you with five characters and five stages as promised and work a good business strategy as they see fit to increase attention and hype.

I just don't see the complaint for it honestly.

In recent memory Mortal Kombat X showed off the first Kombat Pack in its entirety prior to release. I2 revealed the first 3 characters and then had silhouettes for the rest. Some were easier to identify than others. SFV showed off the entire season worth of content for Season 3. Those are just off the top of my head. And yeah it's not the entire thing for some of them but it's at least something.

I think the argument that a character shouldn't be announced because you may not click with their playstyle is incredibly weak. Yeah it'd be nice to know what movesets are in place. But I think it's interesting that you're stating some hypothetical where Sakurai absolutely butchers a character like Geno into making him a swordie but in your own reasoning as to why you bought the pass you stated your own trust in Sakurai to be able to deliver faithful and fun to play characters. But regardless of that there's a difference between having knowledge of what you're purchasing and having an opinion of the level of quality of said thing. One thing is objective and the other is subjective. Knowing Geno, a character someone would like vs. dislike is in a pack would be objective. Feeling like Geno isn't done the way you think would be best is subjective. I don't think people's subjective opinions are a good reason to withhold objective information in the slightest.

IMO heavily suggesting people make a blind purchase on content for an altogether reduced price and hiding behind the defense of "Only buy it if you're confident we can do a good job :3' when they could easily give that information is scummy. Trying to convince people to purchase something that may be against their own interests is predatory.

I'm also really confused as to what you mean by games that reveal their DLC to be the "scummiest" in comparison to this situation. Like, you have to live on Bizarro World to think that what Nintendo is doing is somehow less scummy than NRS revealing each character in a kombat pack prior to launch.

 

[EarlTamm]

Can't say I blame ya. Persona 3 is great. I think my bias is squarely on P5 now, though, because Joker's enamored me that much more than the prior protags. Minato Arisato (is he even still called that anymore?) is neat and all, and I have my liking for him for certain spoilery reasons, too. I also like Yu quite a bit because he's got some kind of air of charisma.

Joker, though? Holy mother of god, Joker. He's just bursting with personality despite being a mostly-silent protag. He's FULL of it. You can see it in every move he makes and everything he does. You know you've done character design well when you can tell what the character is like from showing and not telling.

STILL SO MAD ABOUT BURN MY DREAD MISSING THE BOAT AAAA I RIOT

People just call the P3 protag Door-kun. It's much easier that way.

By the way, how far are you into your P5 walkthrough right now?

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I think the big question now is whether E3 will show just one new character or two. The table's pretty much been set for a Microsoft rep, especially in light of DLC packs having new spirits and Mii costumes in tow. On the topic of Square Enix, it does bring up interesting talking points because, as others have said, we've talked to death about the liscensing of Dragon Quest and Square's stinginess in general. Low hanging fruit wise, we have Geno, Mallow, and Chocobo. Final Fantasy VII and SMRPG would be the easiest to make spirits for if a Square board winds up being a thing. I guess we'll need to see just how many new spirits Joker brings to make a better assessment of this.

If Geno is our Square rep, I can see him bringing SMRPG spirits and even bringing a Chocobo spirit with him, along with some Square Mii fighter costumes... I can see both the Geno Mii costume and Chocobo costume returning; for new Mii costumes, I can see Mallow, Boshi, Jonathan Jones, Boomer, and Smithy getting Mii costumes.

Depending on how many Persona spirits there are (I'm guessing over 20), and depending on Square's stinginess, I can see these characters being spirits:

Spoiler: SMRPG Spirits List

★☆☆☆ Novice:
Mario (SMRPG)
Toadstool
Bowser (SMRPG)
Yoshi (SMRPG)
Chancellor
Frogfucious
Toadofsky

★★☆☆ Advanced
Boshi
Croco
Jagger
Booster
Grate Guy
Knife Guy
Dodo
Mack
Bowyer
Punchinello
King Calimari
Pandorite

★★★☆ Ace
Jonathan Jones
Belome
Megasmilax
Valentina
Czar Dragon
Axem Rangers (All five as one spirit)
Blade

★★★★ Legend
Jinx
Exor
Gunyolk
Smithy

A Microsoft rep set for a reveal at E3 sounds reasonable. If we don't get anything about a 2nd DLC character until June, I believe we'll be getting two DLC character reveals at E3.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm honestly excited about more Mii costumes, especially if they're based on characters that represent the companies/franchises in the Fighter Pass. I think the Microsoft one will probably be a crowd pleaser. Banjo would be an awkward Mii costume but Mumbo, Gruntilda, Steve, Master Chief, Conker, Cuphead, the Battletoads, etc would all be great picks. Namco and Square have a lot of great picks too and, of course, they have costumes from Smash 4 that can return.