Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[3DSNinja]

Mania is amazing, get it,as a sonic fanboy I urge you to get it. also I find it funny that we are talking bout sonic on a bank support thread.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'll still take it over Unleashed any day. Game was mediocre anyway. Had lots of good gameplay, but it had lots of bugs too. Only major control issues were Tails' flying and Mach Speed. Rest worked fine as a concept overall. Yes, clinging with Knuckles/Rouge on the walls is just an annoying bug. But it's not like Tails' flying which is a feature and just is really really bad(Tails wasn't exactly great to fly with in Adventure 1 either, to be fair).

Did we play the same Sonic 06? Unleashed was a drag, no doubt about it, but Sonic 06 is just broken.

Mania is amazing, get it,as a sonic fanboy I urge you to get it. also I find it funny that we are talking bout sonic on a bank support thread.

Sonic Mania is a miracle and a modern masterpiece. Would have been easy GOTY if it hadn't come out in one of the best years ever in gaming.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Did we play the same Sonic 06? Unleashed was a drag, no doubt about it, but Sonic 06 is just broken.

Yep. Very mediocre game I heavily enjoyed. It took till Lost World before I could actually enjoy another Modern game. I vastly prefer the Adventure formula and it worked just fine overall for me. Literally only two playstyle types I actually didn't have fun with(Mach Speed and Tails. Though there's a few extras, like Shadow has his Adventure platforming and his vehicle style. There's about... 11 ways to play, with Shadow and Sonic have two playstyles. Not counting the short moments of things like Snowboarding/Sandboarding, but fully consistent styles).

I don't care that the game is fairly buggy. That didn't matter as it didn't really affect my playing of it at all. It had the gameplay styles I preferred(ugh, boost is no fun at all. It's not an improvement on the system, and the lack of momentum at times only makes it even worse. Unleashed didn't do anything to actually improve Sonic's overall gameplay, outside of the more interesting platforming take with the Night Stages, which really should be explored more. I'm still waiting for them to fix the day-based gameplay, but they still haven't. There's no reason to wait for the lock on with the homing attack. It kills any momentum and is too slow. It cannot flow at all. There's no need for it. The boost isn't necessary either. The point of platforming is to actually avoid enemies or use your skills to properly get around/destroy them. The boost formula used is just a skill-less shield that doesn't do that. It's not engaging at all), awesome music, pretty fun dialogue, a fun(but bad) story, could have better graphics, though. Only other complaint I actually have was the awful loading times.

 

[3DSNinja]

It (Sonic Mania) was my 2017 GOTY. So masterfully designed. My favorite 2D sonic, and 2nd favorite Sonic game (only behind SA2)
also whoever said '06 was good needs to go. '06 is awful, especially the final level and shadow and silver's campaigns. Really, every part of the game that you aren't playing as Blaze is awful, due to the fact that none of the other characters are fun. Mach speed is frustrating, th platforming is broken, need I go on. '06 is the worst game of all time. Plus the fact that it you game over and don't have a manual save you have to restart.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It (Sonic Mania) was my 2017 GOTY. So masterfully designed. My favorite 2D sonic, and 2nd favorite Sonic game (only behind SA2)
also whoever said '06 was good needs to go. '06 is awful, especially the final level and shadow and silver's campaigns. Really, every part of the game that you aren't playing as Blaze is awful, due to the fact that none of the other characters are fun. Mach speed is frustrating, th platforming is broken, need I go on. '06 is the worst game of all time. Plus the fact that it you game over and don't have a manual save you have to restart.

...You know fun is entirely subjective, right?

There's no facts here you've said at all. Just your opinion. Not that you should have to like the game. Nobody is forcing you to. In addition, telling people they should leave because they like a game you don't is really uncool. Let's be more mature about that, please.

Honestly, I found almost every character fun. Amy played great and was her best showing yet. The invisible stuff was neat and a good callback to her having magical capabilities since earlier games, as it's how she found Sonic at times. Tails did control pretty badly. Omega controls just as well as Blaze(never got why he was ever complained about. He had no bugs to begin with). Other than wall clinging, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Knuckles or Rouge. Shadow only has one bug, and that's his homing attack refusing to... home in sometimes. He otherwise controls pretty well, including the vehicles(unlike his own game, where the vehicles were actually bad). Sonic controls fine outside of forced scrolling/mach speed with no actual issues. Silver actually controls rather well overall platforming-wise. His psychic abilities to catch objects definitely need more polish, but it's not really a big problem either way.

And Rise of Lyric was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse(as it has actually nothing good going for it but the glitches making it fun and funny dialogue. The story wasn't even enjoyable like 06 either). There's a reason it's pretty consistently rated lower. It has no real upsides in comparison to a rather mediocre game(that definitely needed more time in the oven). RoL had more issues than that. The story just had nothing going for it of interest, it had a completely horrid game development(06's only issue is they fired the playtesters, which is still a big deal, but they still had a fully finished product with at most... 2 things missing. A multiplayer option and one upgrade).

Though if anything, it's getting a bit off-topic. Regardless, everybody enjoys different games, including ones you don't. There's no problem with that and never will be(and that's an actual fact. It cannot be an issue because that's how subjectivity works).

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Hey y'all! Anything new happen while I was gone?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hey y'all! Anything new happen while I was gone?

Nothing much aside rumors of a cancelled game/series coming back, and this just turned into the Sonic thread, apparently.

You guys are lucky you didn't get that one recent poster on the Joker thread who wanted things to 100% stay on topic all the time.

 

[ForsakenM]

So, I'm going to come out and say it: I don't get the depression around Geno's chances. Some of you guys here bob up and down on the emotional roller-coaster, but I'm just coasting down the lazy river ride of 'Geno's chances have never been better, and if he still somehow doesn't happen, then we ask question later.'

Remember, we were pretty much casting our own illusion for his inclusion in the base roster: he's owned by Square and Square doesn't just give their character for the minimum amount of cashola, but for the closest to maximum amount they can get. Why in the hell would Square take a lump-sum for a character to be in the base roster when they could get years of profit from DLC like they did with Cloud? Geno would never be base simply due to the company that owns him.

With all the recent SMRPG references, Sakurai acknowledging the popularity of the character, the lack of unique gun-wielding character (have you noticed no one really shoots a beam? Samus/D.Samus/Gunner shoot energy sphere, Furry Space Bandits shoot small lasers as well as Naked Samus, Megaman fires a combo of both the previous, Snake and Bayo used realistic weapons and Inkling has a glorified Super Soaker. Only beams I can think of are Final Smashes, but not base gameplay. Boy, Geno really does offer a lot to the table, doesn't he?), the recent statements of Square and how buddy-buddy they are with Nintendo again...and MANY more positives, Geno really has better chances than he ever has.

Also, let's have a moment of thanks that we can still even discuss Geno's chances for Ultimate, as it was only a game ago that DLC became a thing. We could have easily ended up with waiting for Smash 6.

Pick up your trampled hearts and place them in a lazy river log behind me: I've got lots of spare bracelets!

...You know fun is entirely subjective, right?

There's no facts here you've said at all. Just your opinion. Not that you should have to like the game. Nobody is forcing you to. In addition, telling people they should leave because they like a game you don't is really uncool. Let's be more mature about that, please.

I agree with telling people to leave being dumb, but it is entirely possible for a game to be bad objectively. Sonic '06 is objectively a bad game, clearly unfinished forget unpolished before release, much like some titles in recent years (State of Decay 2, Fallout 76, Anthem) though I think Sonic '06 is less extreme than some of these, namely Fallout 76. Sure, you can play the game, but with it's multitude of glitches and other issues it's a chore and takes the natural fun out of the game and replaces it with 'LOL, look how funny this broken piece of the game is' kind of fun that lasts for about 3-5 issues until that filter fades and you start to see it's not one or two things but the game as a whole that is broken and then you start to get angry.

Fun is completely subjective, I agree: you can enjoy good games, okay games and bad games, but the problem lies with being unable to acknowledge the quality of something objectively because of your subjective feelings about it. It's for that reason I refute anyone who acts like 'the game is fun with friends' argument is a point in a game's favor when most anything can be fun with friends and that's the whole point of getting together with them: to have a good time. The friends are the primary component here, and the game is secondary and replaceable with any other sort of media or event that you and your friends deem worthy of a reason to hang out, which could be something as big as a once-in-a-lifetime event or as mundane as hanging out at a fast food joint. Thus, how in the heck could you use that argument in an objective review?

Also, this line of subjective thinking that 'a game is good because I liked it' or 'a game is bad because I didn't like it' is ruining gaming as a whole: kids who never grew up with companies who strived to make as complete of a product as they could due to lack of technology and a lack of funds and stricter business settings are completely complacent with purchasing unfinished games at full pricing with the notion that 'it will get better when they update it.' They are unphased at the removal of basic features and modes and other content that we used to either just have available or could obtain by getting good at playing the game and hiding them behind future updates or a paywall to rush the game out at earlier deadlines and making more money via sloppy craftsmanship. Micro-transactions to push you ahead in both multiplayer and single-player games and lootboxes that cost money but guarantee you almost nothing are just accepted as commonplace things because it's been reaching a younger generation of gamers with parents who didn't game and has been around long enough to stick.

I'm sure you are all familiar with the 'Stop having fun' meme that was used for Fallout 76 critics.

Spoiler: Image Here

The problem with this whole ideology is that we aren't against people having fun, even if the game is bad: we are against people thinking this kind of quality is okay. We are against people supporting this financially so that it continues to happen. We want companies to stop with the corporate bull**** and go back to making games that are great at launch and get better with continued support, and not just for ourselves, but for other gamers...but with this dumbed-down mindset of 'I'm having fun, so the game is good, no matter what anyone else says' is leading towards more and more exploitative behavior from big-wig video game companies like EA and Activision.

This same issue now extends to all forms of media, like mediocre movies that are visual spectacles but lacking in everything else making tons of money and if you criticize the movie objectively you are told you 'need to turn your brain off and just enjoy the movie' despite that very statement meaning you only enjoyed the movie because you failed to look at the quality of it outside of visually for even mere moments. Like content creators that get pushed on platforms when they are actually toxic and harmful to their viewers unknowingly to them while others who have love and support and offer something to their viewers and the community get shunned because of social media websites playing poor politics.

I don't want to spiral out too far, but this an issue I debate about a lot, so to TL;DR this...current media is spiraling downward in terms of quality because people are refusing to be objective and informed about the media they consume, and it does nothing but hurt the consumer as the companies producing the media simply gain more and more profits for less and less expense. I fear things will stay like this for at least another 20 years until either a wave of talented persons bring media to a new level and become successful to the point where it's blatantly obvious the quality difference to the average consumer and thus it produces competition for those who have gotten a little to big from their britches...or, we get a new form of media all together (perhaps furthered VR?) that sweeps the nation and old media cannot keep up and thus has to up the ante and make quality content again.

 

[osby]

With all the recent SMRPG references, Sakurai acknowledging the popularity of the character, the lack of unique gun-wielding character (have you noticed no one really shoots a beam? Samus/D.Samus/Gunner shoot energy sphere, Furry Space Bandits shoot small lasers as well as Naked Samus, Megaman fires a combo of both the previous, Snake and Bayo used realistic weapons and Inkling has a glorified Super Soaker. Only beams I can think of are Final Smashes, but not base gameplay. Boy, Geno really does offer a lot to the table, doesn't he?), the recent statements of Square and how buddy-buddy they are with Nintendo again...and MANY more positives, Geno really has better chances than he ever has.

Well, not that I think Geno wouldn't be unique but shoots laser beams as his Neutral Special, just not from a gun.

 

[Deleted member]

So, I'm going to come out and say it: I don't get the depression around Geno's chances. Some of you guys here bob up and down on the emotional roller-coaster, but I'm just coasting down the lazy river ride of 'Geno's chances have never been better, and if he still somehow doesn't happen, then we ask question later.'

Remember, we were pretty much casting our own illusion for his inclusion in the base roster: he's owned by Square and Square doesn't just give their character for the minimum amount of cashola, but for the closest to maximum amount they can get. Why in the hell would Square take a lump-sum for a character to be in the base roster when they could get years of profit from DLC like they did with Cloud? Geno would never be base simply due to the company that owns him.

With all the recent SMRPG references, Sakurai acknowledging the popularity of the character, the lack of unique gun-wielding character (have you noticed no one really shoots a beam? Samus/D.Samus/Gunner shoot energy sphere, Furry Space Bandits shoot small lasers as well as Naked Samus, Megaman fires a combo of both the previous, Snake and Bayo used realistic weapons and Inkling has a glorified Super Soaker. Only beams I can think of are Final Smashes, but not base gameplay. Boy, Geno really does offer a lot to the table, doesn't he?), the recent statements of Square and how buddy-buddy they are with Nintendo again...and MANY more positives, Geno really has better chances than he ever has.

Also, let's have a moment of thanks that we can still even discuss Geno's chances for Ultimate, as it was only a game ago that DLC became a thing. We could have easily ended up with waiting for Smash 6.

Pick up your trampled hearts and place them in a lazy river log behind me: I've got lots of spare bracelets!

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I still don't understand why people in this thread are so depressed about Geno not being able to make it. I previously thought we would just get the mii costume back, but now I think he may actually happen.

 

[bardbowman]

I mean, Geno fans who’ve been around a while remember the days when his chances were objectively next to zero. Asking for a character like him was on par with asking for some random one-off sidekick like Kooper.

And with that kind of backdrop, it’s really hard for me to be pessimistic about Geno this time around. It’s amazes me to see the kind of progress and following he’s gained over the years. In this cycle, we saw far more unbiased speculation in his favor, far more “leaks” including him as playable, and a swell of fan support that even dwarfs the Brawl days. Seriously, I can think of a lot of fan bases who would LOVE to be in our shoes.

Yes, he still isn’t playable, but we’re not finished yet. For a character like Geno, as long as there’s still character slots, there’s a chance he’s filling one of them. And even if we end up not seeing him in Ultimate, that’s only part of the battle here. As we’ve seen many times, Smash cycles don’t happen in a vacuum. What happens here heavily influences subsequent games. K. Rool, Ridley, and freakin’ Daisy were the big names back in Smash 4 who didn’t get in, and look at them now. Of course, we don’t necessarily have a guarantee that another Smash game is gonna happen, but if there is, you can be sure that the momentum we’ve built here will weigh heavily on the character decisions going forward.

Also, it’s important to note that a lot of outsiders don’t really understand what our wish is for this character. Namely, to bring him back to the Marioverse and to the modern gaming scene. We want Nintendo and Square to tap into and explore the endless potential he has as a unique character. There are many avenues outside of Smash in which this can happen, and there’s reason to be hopeful on those fronts as well. I never thought I’d see the day when Square and Nintendo’s relationship would be this strong, but here we are. I know I’m biased, but the chances of a SMRPG reboot (or sequel?) is objectively good.

Long-winded post just to say that I’m very happy about the progress Geno has made over the years, and it leaves me optimistic for the character in the future.

 

[xpnc]

I mean, Geno fans who’ve been around a while remember the days when his chances were objectively next to zero. Asking for a character like him was on par with asking for some random one-off sidekick like Kooper.

I don't think that's ever been the case. Geno supporters have been emboldened by Sakurai's constant mentioning of him since Brawl speculation days. I guess maybe that's how it was for the real OGs who have been asking for him since shortly after Melee but Geno has never really be on par with other one-off sidekicks

 

[Firox]

My huge issue with Unleashed is that the day stages were too difficult to control usually(so similar to the Mach Speed sections), and the literal stages were awfully designed, and then there's the Tails stages which were "press X to not die" essentially. I never could beat any of those Tails stages. I vastly preferred the hub gameplay(best to me) and the Night Stages(way easier to control, at a fun pace). The Day Stages I might've liked more if the homing attack didn't force me to wait to lock on(which slows down the fast gameplay, so you can't flow through the game well) and the speed boost was too hard to control/not well made. Thankfully they fixed the speed boost gameplay really really well with Lost World. The parkour helps. Similar reasons is why I wasn't really big on Colors, and Generations still didn't do much for me(though I have to try the console Generations first, but the DS version is eh).

I agree the day stages were pretty hard to control, but then again, that's always been my biggest turnoff when it comes to Sonic games in general. Everyone likes the idea of going fast, but human reflexes can only get you so far, and especially in classic sonic games, I feel like almost every burst of speed is punctuated with my body getting impaled on spikes or something. Rinse, repeat. Dash, run into something. It's kinda hilarious to watch. The combat is usually super shallow too. lol In that regard, I felt like Sm4sh Sonic's typical playstyle was a pretty accurate representation of that, just spin dashing back and forth across the stage over and over. I gotta admit though, whoever came up Sonic's physical design hit the jackpot when it comes to psychological appeal. Even when his games don't offer much, he just looks so dang cool you just want a piece of the action.

 

[MajoraMan28]

So this happened,
https://twitter.com/gameinformer/status/1108760416421859328

Also this was an exact quote from the interview.

With all of the above info it is safe to say that the eShop Smash DLC "leak" that had Cuphead on it is fake.

Is it just me or this statement doesn't prove anything?
All he said was that if Nintendo's fans wanted it, and if Nintendo would approach them, they would make it as easy possible. He could be under NDA and not say anything concrete.

 

[Deleted member]

Honest question, do we actually know how an NDA works? It is an argument that I've seen thrown around the fanbase since a long time.

Sometimes I feel people just throw it at random when a character they like could be potentially confirmed and one they dont care is apparently out of the running.

Edit. Never intended to post this here since Im more or less neutral on Geno, but honestly it is something Im curious about since it is pretty common.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Honest question, do we actually know how an NDA works? It is an argument that I've seen thrown around the fanbase since a long time.

Sometimes I feel people just throw it at random when a character they like could be potentially confirmed and one they dont care is apparently out of the running.

Edit. Never intended to post this here since Im more or less neutral on Geno, but honestly it is something Im curious about since it is pretty common.

An NDA prohibits any disclosure of confidential information surrounding a company's project. There isn't anything complex beyond that. It's a matter of someone not saying to the public that a particular content or burocratic details that is part of a project. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Ovaltine]

Honest question, do we actually know how an NDA works? It is an argument that I've seen thrown around the fanbase since a long time.

Sometimes I feel people just throw it at random when a character they like could be potentially confirmed and one they dont care is apparently out of the running.

Edit. Never intended to post this here since Im more or less neutral on Geno, but honestly it is something Im curious about since it is pretty common.

The thing about NDAs is that they vary widely. Some have more caveats than others. I don't think it's really easy to just say, "This definitely violates an NDA, so they MUST be deconfirmed!" It can be a point against or for the character, but it's not as clear-cut as some people may think. What violates an NDA varies as a result.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So, I'm going to come out and say it: I don't get the depression around Geno's chances. Some of you guys here bob up and down on the emotional roller-coaster, but I'm just coasting down the lazy river ride of 'Geno's chances have never been better, and if he still somehow doesn't happen, then we ask question later.'

Remember, we were pretty much casting our own illusion for his inclusion in the base roster: he's owned by Square and Square doesn't just give their character for the minimum amount of cashola, but for the closest to maximum amount they can get. Why in the hell would Square take a lump-sum for a character to be in the base roster when they could get years of profit from DLC like they did with Cloud? Geno would never be base simply due to the company that owns him.

With all the recent SMRPG references, Sakurai acknowledging the popularity of the character, the lack of unique gun-wielding character (have you noticed no one really shoots a beam? Samus/D.Samus/Gunner shoot energy sphere, Furry Space Bandits shoot small lasers as well as Naked Samus, Megaman fires a combo of both the previous, Snake and Bayo used realistic weapons and Inkling has a glorified Super Soaker. Only beams I can think of are Final Smashes, but not base gameplay. Boy, Geno really does offer a lot to the table, doesn't he?), the recent statements of Square and how buddy-buddy they are with Nintendo again...and MANY more positives, Geno really has better chances than he ever has.

Also, let's have a moment of thanks that we can still even discuss Geno's chances for Ultimate, as it was only a game ago that DLC became a thing. We could have easily ended up with waiting for Smash 6.

Pick up your trampled hearts and place them in a lazy river log behind me: I've got lots of spare bracelets!



I agree with telling people to leave being dumb, but it is entirely possible for a game to be bad objectively. Sonic '06 is objectively a bad game, clearly unfinished forget unpolished before release, much like some titles in recent years (State of Decay 2, Fallout 76, Anthem) though I think Sonic '06 is less extreme than some of these, namely Fallout 76. Sure, you can play the game, but with it's multitude of glitches and other issues it's a chore and takes the natural fun out of the game and replaces it with 'LOL, look how funny this broken piece of the game is' kind of fun that lasts for about 3-5 issues until that filter fades and you start to see it's not one or two things but the game as a whole that is broken and then you start to get angry.

Fun is completely subjective, I agree: you can enjoy good games, okay games and bad games, but the problem lies with being unable to acknowledge the quality of something objectively because of your subjective feelings about it. It's for that reason I refute anyone who acts like 'the game is fun with friends' argument is a point in a game's favor when most anything can be fun with friends and that's the whole point of getting together with them: to have a good time. The friends are the primary component here, and the game is secondary and replaceable with any other sort of media or event that you and your friends deem worthy of a reason to hang out, which could be something as big as a once-in-a-lifetime event or as mundane as hanging out at a fast food joint. Thus, how in the heck could you use that argument in an objective review?

Also, this line of subjective thinking that 'a game is good because I liked it' or 'a game is bad because I didn't like it' is ruining gaming as a whole: kids who never grew up with companies who strived to make as complete of a product as they could due to lack of technology and a lack of funds and stricter business settings are completely complacent with purchasing unfinished games at full pricing with the notion that 'it will get better when they update it.' They are unphased at the removal of basic features and modes and other content that we used to either just have available or could obtain by getting good at playing the game and hiding them behind future updates or a paywall to rush the game out at earlier deadlines and making more money via sloppy craftsmanship. Micro-transactions to push you ahead in both multiplayer and single-player games and lootboxes that cost money but guarantee you almost nothing are just accepted as commonplace things because it's been reaching a younger generation of gamers with parents who didn't game and has been around long enough to stick.

I'm sure you are all familiar with the 'Stop having fun' meme that was used for Fallout 76 critics.

Spoiler: Image Here

The problem with this whole ideology is that we aren't against people having fun, even if the game is bad: we are against people thinking this kind of quality is okay. We are against people supporting this financially so that it continues to happen. We want companies to stop with the corporate bull**** and go back to making games that are great at launch and get better with continued support, and not just for ourselves, but for other gamers...but with this dumbed-down mindset of 'I'm having fun, so the game is good, no matter what anyone else says' is leading towards more and more exploitative behavior from big-wig video game companies like EA and Activision.

This same issue now extends to all forms of media, like mediocre movies that are visual spectacles but lacking in everything else making tons of money and if you criticize the movie objectively you are told you 'need to turn your brain off and just enjoy the movie' despite that very statement meaning you only enjoyed the movie because you failed to look at the quality of it outside of visually for even mere moments. Like content creators that get pushed on platforms when they are actually toxic and harmful to their viewers unknowingly to them while others who have love and support and offer something to their viewers and the community get shunned because of social media websites playing poor politics.

I don't want to spiral out too far, but this an issue I debate about a lot, so to TL;DR this...current media is spiraling downward in terms of quality because people are refusing to be objective and informed about the media they consume, and it does nothing but hurt the consumer as the companies producing the media simply gain more and more profits for less and less expense. I fear things will stay like this for at least another 20 years until either a wave of talented persons bring media to a new level and become successful to the point where it's blatantly obvious the quality difference to the average consumer and thus it produces competition for those who have gotten a little to big from their britches...or, we get a new form of media all together (perhaps furthered VR?) that sweeps the nation and old media cannot keep up and thus has to up the ante and make quality content again.

So much this. People nowadays get used to being screwed over by devs under the guise of games-as-a-service and they don't even know better.

Is it just me or this statement doesn't prove anything?
All he said was that if Nintendo's fans wanted it, and if Nintendo would approach them, they would make it as easy possible. He could be under NDA and not say anything concrete.

Well, you don't ask your fans to campaign for a character if the character is already in the game.

 

[MajoraMan28]

So much this. People nowadays get used to being screwed over by devs under the guise of games-as-a-service and they don't even know better.

Well, you don't ask your fans to campaign for a character if the character is already in the game.

I agree with your statement, but to me it doesn't apply there. He is not asking people to campaign for the characters. He is merely saying that Nintendo would abide to their fans' wishes, and he is aware that many among the Nintendo crowd already loved the game before it even came to the Switch.
Again, I'm not betting on Cuphead showing up. I'm just saying that the word choice there isn't asking people to campaign, and I didn't see it as a deconfirming anything. But alas, I'm not invested enough on the possibility yet. I'm only hoping.

 

[bardbowman]

I don't think that's ever been the case. Geno supporters have been emboldened by Sakurai's constant mentioning of him since Brawl speculation days. I guess maybe that's how it was for the real OGs who have been asking for him since shortly after Melee but Geno has never really be on par with other one-off sidekicks

Yeah, I was mainly talking about the Melee crowd (when he was still pretty obscure by most standards), but I see your point.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Going back to Sonic for a sec, there's this one song that I always think about from the series. I don't know if anyone else ever gave it much thought but it sounds like the person singing just keeps saying "JIMMY"

 

[Lime3037]

Going back to Sonic for a sec, there's this one song that I always think about from the series. I don't know if anyone else ever gave it much thought but it sounds like the person singing just keeps saying "JIMMY"

Oh hey, I was listening to this earlier this week! I even left a comment saying what I thought the chanting was. "The Himilayas?" "Uhhhhh, noooo..."

 

[Deleted member]

I'm so thirsty for Smash news. It just can't come soon enough.

 

[Loliko YnT]

It's been FOREVER since I posted in here...

I mainly was on the Operation Starfall discord server and thread. The Geno thread was a bit... Tense , last time I checked. (It was in November if I recall correctly.)

So anywaaaay... I'm really happy that people aren't "Eh , he's out. Let's wait for Fighter pass 2/Smash 6" and are trying to be critical of the situation. It's always been an emotional roller coster here , even if things calmed down sometimes.

My opinion on all of this ? I just found it weird that we almost don't have A SINGLE CLUE about the DLC Fighter pass (and we didn't for Joker) , and somehow , for some reason , Erdrick was leaked. But nobody else did.
There's a big chance we'll get something from Square Enix , there wouldn't be any leaks , leakbait , NDA or anything coming from them otherwise.

I'm gonna be honest , I'm completely biased for Geno , but of course , if you prefer another SE character , there is no problem with that lol.
Geno is still a solid candidate for me. We're too much in the dark to estimate his chances , or any SE character for that matter.
Really , thank you all for keeping discussion active in this thread , even if it's a bit off-topic or arguments against Geno.

Honestly , I just want anything about the Fighter pass to be exciting to me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I agree with telling people to leave being dumb, but it is entirely possible for a game to be bad objectively

Bad is inherently subjective. It's a pure opinion thing and always will be. Same with good. No different from how good and evil aren't actually an objective thing. Idealologies are subjective too. I won't go on about the rest of your post, as I don't really care about quality control myself at this point. I know that most games won't have the actual gameplay I enjoy, so I gave up on trying to worry about that. It's why I rarely buy Sonic games these days. They refuse to actually and properly improve on Sonic's gameplay instead of trying too hard to innovate. They keep having excellent ideas and drop them immediately.

I agree the day stages were pretty hard to control, but then again, that's always been my biggest turnoff when it comes to Sonic games in general. Everyone likes the idea of going fast, but human reflexes can only get you so far, and especially in classic sonic games, I feel like almost every burst of speed is punctuated with my body getting impaled on spikes or something. Rinse, repeat. Dash, run into something. It's kinda hilarious to watch. The combat is usually super shallow too. lol In that regard, I felt like Sm4sh Sonic's typical playstyle was a pretty accurate representation of that, just spin dashing back and forth across the stage over and over. I gotta admit though, whoever came up Sonic's physical design hit the jackpot when it comes to psychological appeal. Even when his games don't offer much, he just looks so dang cool you just want a piece of the action.

The Night Stages at least had good platforming. But yeah, the combat was eh. I'm happy they started to do more than just the same day stage thing these days too. They aren't very interesting nor flow well. I already explained the issue of where it's either too fast or too slow. Like, as much as I dislike Mach Speed sections, it still flows way better and consistently, despite the problems it naturally has. Sonic flowed pretty well in 06 regardless. The most annoying bug in a twist for him... is the same one from Sonic Adventure's first level as is. When you go down a slope through a mountain, you're railed into the middle slightly, but then it tries to push you off the edge to your death. Wave Ocean does the same. Exact. Thing. It was clear they tried to remake it a bit too hard(most of the levels are actually really similar to Adventure 1 as is, including a full set of 10). Then again, Adventure 1 was super buggy too, and had one near unplayable character, Big(while 06 has Tails as the only one near impossible to play as). The rest all had dubious quality due to lots of bugs(like jumping up... too high with Sonic kills him. Oy. And it's not a code-related thing).

----------------

Getting back to Geno, I just hope he's still some kind of DLC at this point. I don't consider it a guarantee he'd be a costume again if he isn't playable, but it's highly likely.

 

[Firox]

Getting back to Geno, I just hope he's still some kind of DLC at this point. I don't consider it a guarantee he'd be a costume again if he isn't playable, but it's highly likely.

Honestly, of all the theories and evidence being thrown around about whether he is or isn't getting in, the most powerful indication to me that he might is the fact that we don't have his costume in ultimate yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but every major DLC costume from 4 has been implemented into an assist trophy (Isaac and Knuckles ) or an actual character (Krool, Chrom, Isabel and Inkling). Geno is the only ballot voted costume I know of that hasn't received either treatment yet. I will say this though, and mark my words:

If he doesn't make it in via DLC, then it's game over. Don't expect him to ever make it into a future installment.

Why? Because Sakurai talked about the possibility of Geno since Brawl, but what happened? 39, yes 39 characters have been added to the game since then and none of them were Geno. For whatever reason, Nintendo/Sakurai have not deemed him a priority over any of those 39 characters. Now, I'm not comparing the relevance of any of them to Geno, but my point is that if the likes of WFT and Piranha plant could beat him in, then there's obviously more at play here than simply the desires of the fanbase (even though I wish there wasn't). I still hope he gets in, and we have at least SOME clues that he might, but if he doesn't, I won't hold my breath any longer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, of all the theories and evidence being thrown around about whether he is or isn't getting in, the most powerful indication to me that he might is the fact that we don't have his costume in ultimate yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but every major DLC costume from 4 has been implemented into an assist trophy (Isaac and Knuckles ) or an actual character (Krool, Chrom, Isabel and Inkling). Geno is the only ballot voted costume I know of that hasn't received either treatment yet. I will say this though, and mark my words:

If he doesn't make it in via DLC, then it's game over. Don't expect him to ever make it into a future installment.

Why? Because Sakurai talked about the possibility of Geno since Brawl, but what happened? 39, yes 39 characters have been added to the game since then and none of them were Geno. For whatever reason, Nintendo/Sakurai have not deemed him a priority over any of those 39 characters. Now, I'm not comparing the relevance of any of them to Geno, but my point is that if the likes of WFT and Piranha plant could beat him in, then there's obviously more at play here than simply the desires of the fanbase (even though I wish there wasn't). I still hope he gets in, and we have at least SOME clues that he might, but if he doesn't, I won't hold my breath any longer.

Tons of costumes from DLC aren't a costume any more. And the cut costumes are all 3rd party. It's more than likely they want to re-sell them for more money than anything else.

 

[Firox]

Tons of costumes from DLC aren't a costume any more. And the cut costumes are all 3rd party. It's more than likely they want to re-sell them for more money than anything else.

lol, actually that sounds a lot more like a Nintendo move. They could easily sell them to all the people that never owned a Wii U.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

lol, actually that sounds a lot more like a Nintendo move. They could easily sell them to all the people that never owned a Wii U.

That too. But many characters are from inactive franchises. 3rd party developers want to make as much money from their characters as possible. It's pretty understandable in that regard.

 

[Ovaltine]

Frankly, if Geno doesn't make it this time, I'll probably not have much hope for the future. I'll still campaign for him and always will, but I think Ultimate is his best and last chance.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm so thirsty for Smash news. It just can't come soon enough.

Take heart, only one week left until April, then the final countdown starts.

 

[Ovaltine]

Take heart, only one week left until April, then the final countdown starts.

Uh, you can't do that.

It's Joker's job to take hearts, not yours.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Uh, you can't do that.

It's Joker's job to take hearts, not yours.

Okay, time to use a different expression.

Hang in there, only a few weeks left!

 

[Deleted member]

Take heart, only one week left until April, then the final countdown starts.

Final Countdown? Aw, man, I love that song!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So, I'm going to come out and say it: I don't get the depression around Geno's chances. Some of you guys here bob up and down on the emotional roller-coaster, but I'm just coasting down the lazy river ride of 'Geno's chances have never been better, and if he still somehow doesn't happen, then we ask question later.'

Remember, we were pretty much casting our own illusion for his inclusion in the base roster: he's owned by Square and Square doesn't just give their character for the minimum amount of cashola, but for the closest to maximum amount they can get. Why in the hell would Square take a lump-sum for a character to be in the base roster when they could get years of profit from DLC like they did with Cloud? Geno would never be base simply due to the company that owns him.

With all the recent SMRPG references, Sakurai acknowledging the popularity of the character, the lack of unique gun-wielding character (have you noticed no one really shoots a beam? Samus/D.Samus/Gunner shoot energy sphere, Furry Space Bandits shoot small lasers as well as Naked Samus, Megaman fires a combo of both the previous, Snake and Bayo used realistic weapons and Inkling has a glorified Super Soaker. Only beams I can think of are Final Smashes, but not base gameplay. Boy, Geno really does offer a lot to the table, doesn't he?), the recent statements of Square and how buddy-buddy they are with Nintendo again...and MANY more positives, Geno really has better chances than he ever has.

Also, let's have a moment of thanks that we can still even discuss Geno's chances for Ultimate, as it was only a game ago that DLC became a thing. We could have easily ended up with waiting for Smash 6.

Pick up your trampled hearts and place them in a lazy river log behind me: I've got lots of spare bracelets!



I agree with telling people to leave being dumb, but it is entirely possible for a game to be bad objectively. Sonic '06 is objectively a bad game, clearly unfinished forget unpolished before release, much like some titles in recent years (State of Decay 2, Fallout 76, Anthem) though I think Sonic '06 is less extreme than some of these, namely Fallout 76. Sure, you can play the game, but with it's multitude of glitches and other issues it's a chore and takes the natural fun out of the game and replaces it with 'LOL, look how funny this broken piece of the game is' kind of fun that lasts for about 3-5 issues until that filter fades and you start to see it's not one or two things but the game as a whole that is broken and then you start to get angry.

Fun is completely subjective, I agree: you can enjoy good games, okay games and bad games, but the problem lies with being unable to acknowledge the quality of something objectively because of your subjective feelings about it. It's for that reason I refute anyone who acts like 'the game is fun with friends' argument is a point in a game's favor when most anything can be fun with friends and that's the whole point of getting together with them: to have a good time. The friends are the primary component here, and the game is secondary and replaceable with any other sort of media or event that you and your friends deem worthy of a reason to hang out, which could be something as big as a once-in-a-lifetime event or as mundane as hanging out at a fast food joint. Thus, how in the heck could you use that argument in an objective review?

Also, this line of subjective thinking that 'a game is good because I liked it' or 'a game is bad because I didn't like it' is ruining gaming as a whole: kids who never grew up with companies who strived to make as complete of a product as they could due to lack of technology and a lack of funds and stricter business settings are completely complacent with purchasing unfinished games at full pricing with the notion that 'it will get better when they update it.' They are unphased at the removal of basic features and modes and other content that we used to either just have available or could obtain by getting good at playing the game and hiding them behind future updates or a paywall to rush the game out at earlier deadlines and making more money via sloppy craftsmanship. Micro-transactions to push you ahead in both multiplayer and single-player games and lootboxes that cost money but guarantee you almost nothing are just accepted as commonplace things because it's been reaching a younger generation of gamers with parents who didn't game and has been around long enough to stick.

I'm sure you are all familiar with the 'Stop having fun' meme that was used for Fallout 76 critics.

The problem with this whole ideology is that we aren't against people having fun, even if the game is bad: we are against people thinking this kind of quality is okay. We are against people supporting this financially so that it continues to happen. We want companies to stop with the corporate bull**** and go back to making games that are great at launch and get better with continued support, and not just for ourselves, but for other gamers...but with this dumbed-down mindset of 'I'm having fun, so the game is good, no matter what anyone else says' is leading towards more and more exploitative behavior from big-wig video game companies like EA and Activision.

This same issue now extends to all forms of media, like mediocre movies that are visual spectacles but lacking in everything else making tons of money and if you criticize the movie objectively you are told you 'need to turn your brain off and just enjoy the movie' despite that very statement meaning you only enjoyed the movie because you failed to look at the quality of it outside of visually for even mere moments. Like content creators that get pushed on platforms when they are actually toxic and harmful to their viewers unknowingly to them while others who have love and support and offer something to their viewers and the community get shunned because of social media websites playing poor politics.

I don't want to spiral out too far, but this an issue I debate about a lot, so to TL;DR this...current media is spiraling downward in terms of quality because people are refusing to be objective and informed about the media they consume, and it does nothing but hurt the consumer as the companies producing the media simply gain more and more profits for less and less expense. I fear things will stay like this for at least another 20 years until either a wave of talented persons bring media to a new level and become successful to the point where it's blatantly obvious the quality difference to the average consumer and thus it produces competition for those who have gotten a little to big from their britches...or, we get a new form of media all together (perhaps furthered VR?) that sweeps the nation and old media cannot keep up and thus has to up the ante and make quality content again.

I do agree that Geno's chances haven't really in ages. They're really about the same that they've been since Ultimate was first released, which are decent given that he received any attention at all in the form of a Mii costume and Sakurai directly commented upon his presence as a fan request. I also don't understand why the community tends to waver with every little piece of news or potential new outcome that shows up. I understood during the November Direct, but that was it, and in retrospect Geno was going to have a tough time getting in to base game.

That's where I diverge with you a bit, however, as I think it was less because Sqaure Enix made demands of a theoretical Geno or DLC character and more because there wasn't space for a lot of newcomers. From Piranha Plant, I think we can safely assume that we barely got the game in the state that we did and that there wasn't really a whole lot of time for newcomers to be created for the game. And I don't think Geno was seen as any sort of priority for the base game. I think Sakurai largely wanted to add a new major third party franchise and focused most of his attention on Castlevania in that regard with some further commitment from Capcom to get Ken in the game. I imagine more third parties would have only limited his ability to create characters more, so he stuck with establishing the one and saved any others for later. I also disagree on Square holding Geno hostage for DLC. I don't think Square honestly cares enough about Geno to even do anything with him beyond give him to Nintendo and Sakurai if they ask.

I will always maintain that Geno lives and dies on Sakurai's decision to prioritize him as a playable character. Sakurai has never been turned down as far as we know when he has gone to ask for other characters and for someone like Geno, I really don't see Square seeing anything of value in holding him back. Sakurai has also always been adamant that he selects the character, including specifically with Square in choosing Cloud over potential other Final Fantasy reps. I just don't think Geno has been that lucky up until this point, and Final Fantasy was clearly the priority for Smash 4 DLC. What we're waiting to see is if Sakurai, and more specifically this time, Nintendo, looked at his popularity with fans and decided that was an option worth pursuing or decided on something else. I'm not defending Square as much as I just don't think they have a say in who gets into Smash and also just don't care enough about Geno to hold him back for DLC.



As for your comments on the industry, your completely spot on. We're certainly letting companies get away with too much and accepting more mediocre products along the way. I don't want to knock people's sense of fun anymore than the next person, but we're objectively getting broken, mangled products on launch that developers use post-launch patches to either complete or fix. Developers are knowingly selling us broken or incomplete products, while also forcing predatory microtransactions into every aspect of gaming. Those practices need to be actively recognized and dealt with. Sonic 06 definitely falls into that category of broken game willingly sold to consumers.

But even beyond that, the gaming community at a large has pushed and prioritized so many of the wrong elements of games that I think we're really seeing an active decline. We've normalized the most beautiful AAA games that cost far too much to create and often don't contain any innovation or even exciting variation to what has come before. And so few companies can even produce on that level or even on half that level, so we're seeing a pretty noticeable shortage in meaningful releases or games that challenge the status quo by taking risks. Risk has become an exclusively negative word for the industry I feel, and that's really a shame. It's only going to get worse from here if we don't start voting with our wallets more selectively...

 

[The Anigriffin]

:Temporarily crawls out of the hell that is my final semester in college:

So what'd I miss?

 

[GillyGrime]

What do you guys imagine for his reveal and trailer if he were to be revealed in a few weeks?

 

[Ovaltine]

:Temporarily crawls out of the hell that is my final semester in college:

So what'd I miss?

You missed me making some sick Joker jokes.

But nah, not much, friend-o. It's been awfully stagnant. Nintendo is crossing Zelda over with an indie dev, though, which is NUTS.

 

[DaxMasterix]

What do you guys imagine for his reveal and trailer if he were to be revealed in a few weeks?

Rainy Forest, A Slow version of Forest Maze start playing, camera goes through the forest directly to the base of a giant tree. Before the 9th note (Of the music) a puppet open his eyes and looks at the camera.
Smash logo and se finish.

 

[The Anigriffin]

You missed me making some sick Joker jokes.

But nah, not much, friend-o. It's been awfully stagnant. Nintendo is crossing Zelda over with an indie dev, though, which is NUTS.

Spoiler: Fighter Pass Character #2

You'll never see him comin.


Oh yeah I heard about that. Man this is lowkey a great Nintendo timeline at the moment.

That and I can now finally play Cuphead now. I can't wait.