Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

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If I had to choose 14 more characters for future DLC (and couldn't promote Assist Trophies or create new Echo Fighters):

1. Geno
2. Banjo-Kazooie
3. Dante
4. Ryu Hayabusa
5. Master Chief
6. Decidueye
(No particular order after these first 6)
7. Doom Slayer
8. Phoenix Wright
9. Monster Hunter
10. Sora
11. Marina Liteyears
12. Rayman
13. Sub-Zero
14. Cranky Kong

Also, in regards to having Nintendo History, Cloud technically appeared on Nintendo consoles before being playable in Smash: Gameboy Advance, DS, and 3DS to name three systems. He technically had more representation on Nintendo consoles when he joined Smash than Lucas or Ness did when they joined Smash.
 
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Nov 11, 2018
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692
I was a definite believer in the Grinch leak, but was prepared for it to be wrong, so I didn't get burned by its disconfirmation.

On a different note, however, I was confused by one major thing: it was in regards to the matter of that Gundam-thing model Sakurai bought to get access to the rifle it came with in order to use said rifle for his "current project", with we all know now was Smash. The Grinch leak showed that Mach Rider would've been the recipient of that rifle purchase, but with the Grinch leak being fake... the heck did Sakurai use that model rifle for?!
Nobody knows. I thought it could be a redesign for the super scope 6, but stupid me, I should've realized its design would never change. Yeah, we have no clue, and nobody in the base roster uses a gun like that... my guess is we'll just have to wait.
If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
1. Isaac (They've been through it the worst and deserve it first.)
2. Geno
3. Banjo & Kazooie
4. Masked Man (We need him for another Smash Kingdom reunion with Ridley, Mega Man, and Geno.)
5. Sora
6. Master Chief
7. Arbiter/Thel 'Vadam
8. 2B
9. Duke Nukem
10. Erdrick
11. Waluigi
12. Crash Bandicoot
13. Mallow
14. Scorpion
 
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I just realized, isn't Geno a obscure third party character? Yeah, the game he appeared in was Mario, but we are talking about things purely on a technical level. Just something I figured I would point out while I was thinking about this.

And wouldn't it be a massive deal in of itself to have a third party indie? To represent such an important facet of current gaming and such a big part of current Nintendo culture? Let's be honest, indie's where definitely carrying some of the Switch's weight in 2018 when it came to new releases. And I am sure getting an indie character would be a bit more on the easy side compared to some other AAA characters, at least in price and cooperation. I am sure many indie devs would jump on the opportunity with gusto. I definitely don't think we would get a Final Fantasy situation at least.
Geno falls into the same school as Banjo-Kazooie and Bayonetta when it comes to third parties of technically being a less mainstream third party choice that has too much Nintendo in them to actually separate them out as independent third parties, and as such, I don't think they are or even should be held to the same standards. Geno and Bayonetta are effectively Nintendo characters, but the rights belong to other companies and Banjo is the Nintendo/Rare child that Rare got full custody of. On a technical level of big names, I don't know if any of these characters would be top priority, but again, I don't see them by the same rules.


As for indies. It would be huge for the chosen company, and all evidence points to the likes of Yahct Club Games and Wayforward being absolutely delighted at the inclusions of their characters in any capacity in Ultimate. I think that was kind of the massive breakthrough moment for indies. That Smash of all things was actively acknowledging these smaller titles (And yes, Commander Video was in Smash 4 as a trophy, but he gets largely overlooked) was sort of the big headline for indies I think. An assist trophy might piss off lots of people who want to see the character, but for an indie company, that's kind of a big ****ing deal when you're character is standing next to the likes of Bomberman, Zero, Guile, and Alucard. I just don't know if a full character is something that we're headed towards yet.

Indies are likely much easier to work with and cheaper to finance, but every company added is another major influence to work with and have to contact regarding the character. I don't think it's really much of an accident that Ultimate so far has only added characters from companies already involved as it's easier to juggle fewer voices of input you have to directly work with. Sure, input is needed from character creators too, but I'm sure Sega and others facilitate those sorts of discussions more easily.

I'd also like to point out that every character we've discussed for indie reps are Western indies and we currently don't have a Western third party of any kind in the game and really don't have many non-Japanese characters to begin with. That'd be quite the bold statement to go with your first western guest as an indie, and I'm not sure if I see Sakurai going for that honestly. And I'm really not against indies in Smash, as I am just skeptical of their chances for the reasons I've discussed here and in the thread more generally.
 
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If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
1. Geno
2. Master Higgins
3. Doom Guy
4. Lip
5. Hakurei Reimu
6. Banjo Kazooie
7. Slime
8. Porky Minch
9. Ryu Hayabusa
10. Rayman
11. BWD
12. Eggman
13. RH Rep
14. Indie Rep

Not in any specific order after Master Higgins
 
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EarlTamm

Smash Master
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Messages
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I guess that's true, but does Nintendo history matter that much for third parties? I think while it's a requirement, it doesn't really help much in the face of stronger competition (I don't think Cloud, Bayonetta and Joker would have gotten in if Nintendo history was such a strong point)

Personally I feel like the Spirit is somewhat tokenistic, an easy acknowledgement of a fan base without any actual hard work put in (kinda like Rayman). With Shovel Knight, I at least get the feeling of a deeper recognition.
Nintendo made an entire term for indies highly related to the Nintendo platform in the form of Nindies, so I feel like they would value the Nintendo connection in an indie rep very much. And I do think she is a strong indie competitor as she is well acknowledged in the community through several cameos, a successful Kickstarter and general seniority even if you ignore her first game.

A single Spirit on it's own might be that, but she also got an icon as well as a second spirit. She pretty much got the same treatment as SMRPG, getting two spirits and an icon.
Geno falls into the same school as Banjo-Kazooie and Bayonetta when it comes to third parties of technically being a less mainstream third party choice that has too much Nintendo in them to actually separate them out as independent third parties, and as such, I don't think they are or even should be held to the same standards. Geno and Bayonetta are effectively Nintendo characters, but the rights belong to other companies and Banjo is the Nintendo/Rare child that Rare got full custody of. On a technical level of big names, I don't know if any of these characters would be top priority, but again, I don't see them by the same rules.


As for indies. It would be huge for the chosen company, and all evidence points to the likes of Yahct Club Games and Wayforward being absolutely delighted at the inclusions of their characters in any capacity in Ultimate. I think that was kind of the massive breakthrough moment for indies. That Smash of all things was actively acknowledging these smaller titles (And yes, Commander Video was in Smash 4 as a trophy, but he gets largely overlooked) was sort of the big headline for indies I think. An assist trophy might piss off lots of people who want to see the character, but for an indie company, that's kind of a big ****ing deal when you're character is standing next to the likes of Bomberman, Zero, Guile, and Alucard. I just don't know if a full character is something that we're headed towards yet.

Indies are likely much easier to work with and cheaper to finance, but every company added is another major influence to work with and have to contact regarding the character. I don't think it's really much of an accident that Ultimate so far has only added characters from companies already involved as it's easier to juggle fewer voices of input you have to directly work with. Sure, input is needed from character creators too, but I'm sure Sega and others facilitate those sorts of discussions more easily.

I'd also like to point out that every character we've discussed for indie reps are Western indies and we currently don't have a Western third party of any kind in the game and really don't have many non-Japanese characters to begin with. That'd be quite the bold statement to go with your first western guest as an indie, and I'm not sure if I see Sakurai going for that honestly. And I'm really not against indies in Smash, as I am just skeptical of their chances for the reasons I've discussed here and in the thread more generally.
I feel like Geno and Bayo are very diffrent in the sense that the former was the child they lost custody of and the latter being the child they adopted when no one else would.

So far indies have been rising in status from game to game. In Smash 4 it was a single trophy, in Smash Ultimate is is an assist and some spirits and icons. Technically they have only ever headed towards that higher status. And with indies getting more and more prominent in the overall gaming sense, I feel it gets even more likely for them.

I also feel like the western connection is a bit iffy for multiple reasons. Of course it has been mostly Japanese made characters so far. Most of the cast is Nintendo characters and most of the big game publishers that Nintendo are known to work with are also from Japan. I don't think the publishers nationality is a factor in the character selecting process. And when it comes to having the first western character be indie, again, I don't think the characters nationality maters in the decision. I doubt Sakurai even cares about that. And what is even wrong with such a bold statement, intentional or otherwise? No matter what side of the sea the character is from, it would be pretty inspirational for an indie to get into such a big celebration of gaming.
 
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Looma

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To this day I think Color Splash gets way too much flack for what it isn't, rather than for what it is.
To me, it is a better game than a handful of spinoff Mario games, heck, even in the Paper Mario series.
You're probably right but I gotta have at least one low hanging fruit maaaan
If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
Ooh i like this game.

1. Arle Nadja
2. Geno
3. Neku Sakuraba
4. Phoenix Wright
5. Leon S. Kennedy
6. Travis Touchdown
7. Doomguy
8. Arthur
9. Firebrand
10. Bub
11. Jibanyan
12. Bandana Dee
13. Klonoa
14. Crash Bandicoot

Goddamn even with 14 slots I can't fit everyone. Honorable mentions go to Marco Rossi (and any SNK rep at all honestly), Professor Layton, Tails/Shadow/Eggman/Blaze, Shantae, and Sylux.
 
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Dynamic Worlock

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Messages
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If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
1. Geno
2. Banjo
3. Isaac
4. Viewtiful Joe
5. Crono
6. Porky
7. Travis Touchdown
8. Conker
9. Rayman
10. Waluigi
11. Groose
12. Groose
13. Groose
14. Groose
(I could easily list another 15, all of them would be Groose)
 

GrungeMan

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
73
If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
Fun question! I'll try to list a mix of characters I want, most people want in general, and those less favored characters that mostly benefit Nintendo (corporate picks).

1. Geno
2. Banjo and Kazooie
3. Isaac
4. Skull Kid
5. Rex
6. Spring Man
7. Waluigi
8. Ashley
9. FE Three Houses Rep
10. Gen 8 Pokemon Rep
11. Monster Hunter
12. Doomguy
13. Erdrick
14. Sora or Steve

I think the 10 most likely echoes would be Dixie, Shadow, Ribbon Girl, Mrs. Pac-Man, The Black Knight, Black Shadow, Funky, Medusa, Galacta Knight, and Ninten.

Edit: If I had to choose, couldn't promote ATs, and exercised a lot of personal bias (while still being realistic), then I would choose:

1. Geno
2. Banjo and Kazooie
3. Conker
4. Ryu Hayabusa
5. Jill Valentine
6. Dixie (non echo)
7. Frogger
8. Paper Mario
9. Chorus Kids
10. Bandana Waddle Dee
11. Masked Man
12. Mach Rider
13. Twintelle
14. Tails

Two very different lists indeed. Haha
 
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Looma

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Because I view third parties with a different general lens than I do forst party characters. Third parties I expect a higher pedigree from on average and I just can’t personally ever justify most indies when several big series from other third parties are not currently represented. Here’s a list of big ones that we don’t currently have that do have better relations with Nintendo that I would argue as the priority:

Dragon Quest
Ninja Gaiden
Resident Evil
Ace Attorney
Contra
Rayman
Tetris

If we expand that to include series with less ingrained Nintendo connections, than the situation gets worse;

Minecraft
Tomb Raider
Doom
Mortal Kombat

And even on the indie front, you’ve characters like Shantae, Shovel Knight, and Quote. Some of these hold deeper ties with Nintendo and some have arguably had more impact on the indies scene. Not to mention you’ve also got McMillen’s creations like Meat Boy and Isaac that have seniority status as well. That’s part of why I don’t like indie reps as a concept because I don’t any single one does justice to indie games as they exist now. How do you choose who comes first from such a long list of candidates?

And that goes without mentioning a ton of other major franchises, fan requests, and just generally unique characters to pull from and design in gaming. I’d just prefer my third parties to be more curated on average despite me supporting really any character that we get. But that’s a personal preference thing there I’m more than willing to admit.

Edit: And I just touched upon some of the bigger names of third parties I’ve seen thrown around for Smash in the affiliates mainstream area, there’s dozens more for that and several could that could also be justified as Nintendo relevant as well.
"A Tetromino should be playable"
"Indie characters shouldn't"
tumblr_static_a2q96w8vs6gogokgk4gg0ww8c.gif

ok
is only a light rib please no hurt
 
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GUYS GUYs GUYS GUYS GUYS!



So I can't tell you if this is 100%, because I don't know how credible Mizumi is, but everyone else is freaking out so I figured I might as well share this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1105556358781419524

So, apparently Mizumi datamined the game yet again and found that WoL has 16 slots or w/e the **** they are called. Anyway, out of all the slots filled up by characters, there were 16 slots and our boi repping Plant Gang took up one of those slots. So, first off, everyone character released will be playable in WoL, so that's cool.

Secondly...

IF THIS IS TRUE IT MEANS WE ARE GETTING 14 MORE CHARACTERS FOR DLC, MEANING WE COULD BE SEEING EITHER MULTIPLE FIGHTER PASSES OR JUST RAW SINGLE DLC!

In the words of a friend of mine, 'the characters wars are essentially over!'

Happy days are here! Dreamland here we come!

If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
1. Goemon
2. Banjo & Kazooie
3. Krystal
4. Dixie Kong
5. Porky
6. Classic Pig Ganon
7. Shantae
8. Marina Liteyears
9. Zero
10. Tron Bonne
11. Geno
12. Isaac (So his fans can be happy.)
13. Medusa
14. Skull Kid
 

BoyMan

Smash Rookie
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
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If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
Personal wants
1. Geno
2. Yuri Lowell
3. Sceptile/Grovyle
4. TES/Fallout character
5. Isaac (The Binding of Isaac)/ Meat Boy
6. Gordon Freeman/ The Scout

Characters that I don't care much about one way or the other but are highly requested
7. Banjo
8. Isaac (Golden Sun)
9. Sans
10. Sora
11. Waluigi
12. Ashley
13. Bandanna Dee
14. Steve (Minecraft)
 

domriver

Smash Lord
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Stockton, California
good morning fellow Geno bros!
Been absent from here for a while - been real real busy but had a question. I think it is safe to assume a mini direct coming this month for Smash for V. 3.0? Or possibly even in april -.- but any rate what are the supposed time frames for these directs to happen? anything?
 

Zack E.

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good morning fellow Geno bros!
Been absent from here for a while - been real real busy but had a question. I think it is safe to assume a mini direct coming this month for Smash for V. 3.0? Or possibly even in april -.- but any rate what are the supposed time frames for these directs to happen? anything?
Welcome back :D

I think we will get a full Smash direct in April, rather than a Mini Direct at any time
 

6eyondthegrave

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 31, 2018
Messages
77
If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
The first 4 characters are my most wanted, the others are in no particular order. I tried my best to select more Nintendo characters than 3rd party.

  • Geno
  • Banjo & Kazooie
  • Rayman
  • Ryu Hayabusa (combination of old and new moves)
  • Waluigi
  • Mach Rider
  • Pauline
  • Cranky Kong
  • Kamek
  • Fawful
  • Vaati
  • Viewtiful Joe
  • Black Shadow
  • Linkle
  • Max Brass
 
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If I had to choose 14 more characters for future DLC (and couldn't promote Assist Trophies or create new Echo Fighters):
These are always fun. Sadly, I can't upgrade my boys Bomberman and Shovel Knight but I'll make do.

1. Banjo - Nostalgia and helped defined an era for Nintendo.
2. Erdrick (or really, just Dragon Quest in general) - Nostalgia, genre-defining, and could use more attention in the west. My brother might also like it. Topical, too.
3. Andy from Advance Wars - My brother would flip the **** out because he loves that series. I appreciate it on its own merits so I think it deserves a place. I was upset when they removed the infantry and tanks assist trophy.
4. Ray from Custom Robo - the game has a perfect Smash Bros moveset ready to be implemented and it's a cool arena battle series. If it became a mii costume, I think that says a lot for now.
5. Adeleine/Bandana Dee - a new Kirby rep would be appreciated since our last one was in Brawl. Adeleine (and Ribbon if they reference Star Allies) would be adorable and would hammer in my Kirby 64 nostalgia. Bandana Dee is practically the fourth member of the Kirby cast now, so it's hard to imagine him not being in. I loved Return to Dreamland so I think Bandana would be a great member to the cast.
6. Paper Mario - I'm a nut for the first two games. The first Paper Mario is pretty much my Super Mario RPG growing up, and Thousand Year Door is just a really solid experience. If they do a mix between Color Splash and Thousand Year Door like the Paper Mario stage, I wouldn't be against it. Paper Mario is still not dead, which is strange to think about.
7. Some Capcom character from UMvC3. I have in my signature Phoenix, Dante, and Zero, but it can be anyone as long as it's not from Street Fighter. I haven't played a lot of their games but I think they would be fun in Smash and deserve their own spot.
8. A Soul Calibur character would be sick. Give me Nightmare, Ivy, Asteroth, Kilik, or literally anyone in Soul Calibur 2 and I'll gasp.
9. ...Max from Bomberman Max? LMAO. I just really want Bomberman as a fighter.
10. Geno - Naturally
11. I want a first person shooter in Smash. I'm not talking about Metroid Prime, but a series that was originally a shooter, or made its name for being a shooter. We have nothing like them in Smash Bros and I think they can add a lot, visually and conceptually. I'm thinking Master Chief or the DOOM dude.
12. If I'm being real, the Zelda series needs some new blood. I want Vaati as a personal choice because that's who I grew up with, but they got potential for a lot of villains.
13. If we're discussing a classic arcade or NES character, I want Space Invaders as a fighter. Everyone recognizes Space Invaders... at least I hope. It's one of the most fundamental games out there.
14. Something about Crash Bandicoot always makes me smile even when I've never played the games. Let's throw him in here since I'm playing the N Sane Trilogy after I finish Shantae Pirate's Curse.
15. Since I cheated by putting Bomberman on the list, I'll add one more and say... I'm really grasping for another character to include here, but Crono from Chrono Trigger would be a legendary character to choose even if the series is practically dead. Topically, it would be the character no one expected and, on its own, the game is very popular and is still held warmly to this day. I really need to get around to playing this game.
 
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If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
No particular order besides the first 6, can't really pick favorites : p

1. Geno
2. Rayman
3. Phoenix Wright
4. Banjo
5.Masked Man
6. Zack and Wiki
-unsorted-
7.Shantae
8. Ninten
9. Porky
10. Skull Kid
11. Issac
12. Karate Joe/ Chorus Kids
13. Sora
14. Bandana Dee

this is a personal bias, but I would LOVE to see Zack and Wiki in a smash game. definitely not going to happen but its just something ive been particularly fond about
 
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>14
So, how credible is Mizumi, exactly?

"A Tetromino should be playable"
"Indie characters shouldn't"
View attachment 197837
ok
is only a light rib please no hurt
Don't worry, more Tetris content is impossible anyway since Henk Rogers is a cheap *******.

There's also 30 unused character slots, so this really changes nothing. Bear in mind they could simply be left unused (iirc happened with Sm4sh).

That said, 16 is more realistic than 30, so that's good for the theory. Dunno how I feel about it, personally; here's hoping a hypothetical second and third season are more based on fan demand, 'cause I really don't want more of the same.
29, how many times do I have to say it? :dizzy:

Anyway, it it likely that some characters could come with multiple alts, so the slots can be used for that purpose, as it was demonstrated with Cloud and the Koopalings, among others.

If they want big-name promotional picks, they may run out of options for those really fast if timing is still a factor, so I imagine that they would pull stuff out from the ballot a little more often.
 
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War Anvil

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If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?
1. Misty. Second Pokémon Trainer would be for the best, with Starmie and most likely two different SwSh Water-types.
2. Shantae. No duh; just because she's a Spirit in the base game isn't an excuse of any kind, and her supporters have mostly been refueled by her being in Smash at all.
3. Saki Amamiya. No more Assist Trophy? Then WHEN'S MAHVEL PLAYABLE STATUS?
4. Elma. Why even exclude XenoX music for the most part? Something's screwy.
5. Marshall or another Rhythm Heaven fighter. It's really just a toss up...
6. Rayman. See Shantae.
7. Banjo-Kazooie. Oh lawd, they should be comin'. Even better since Microsoft not only bought Rare, but has been surprisingly buddy-buddy with Ninty.
8. Earthworm Jim. Nostalgia meets potential liberation from the clutches of some eccentric who...well, let's not get into politics...
9. Crash. "Hey, plumber boy, mustache man--your worst nightmare has arrived~ Pack up your stuuuuuff~"
10. Porky. LET NESS AND LUCAS FIGHT THEIR OWN VILLAIN AGAIN, BECAUSE GET OVER IT YOU PEOPLE.
Honorable Mentions: Gex, Bubblun, Sora, Mini Kangaroo, and Impa.

BONUS BOTTOM FOUR INSPIRED BY RUMORS?!:
Erdrick, Doom Guy, Hayabusa, and Steve in order of most to least interested.
 

Opossum

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If I had to choose 14 more characters for future DLC (and couldn't promote Assist Trophies or create new Echo Fighters):

1. Geno
2. Banjo-Kazooie
3. Dante
4. Ryu Hayabusa
5. Master Chief
6. Decidueye
(No particular order after these first 6)
7. Doom Slayer
8. Phoenix Wright
9. Monster Hunter
10. Sora
11. Marina Liteyears
12. Rayman
13. Sub-Zero
14. Cranky Kong

Also, in regards to having Nintendo History, Cloud technically appeared on Nintendo consoles before being playable in Smash: Gameboy Advance, DS, and 3DS to name three systems. He technically had more representation on Nintendo consoles when he joined Smash than Lucas or Ness did when they joined Smash.
The No Assists rule made me drop a few (notably Waluigi, Tiki, Starfy, and Shovel Knight), but here's what I'd probably do, assuming I had full control.

1. Celica
2. Crash Bandicoot
3. Henry Fleming
4. Caeda
5. Decidueye
6. Chorus Kids
7. Muddy Mole
8. Captain Toad
9. Daruk
10. Lara Croft
11. Frogger
12. Dixie Kong
13. Merric
14. Magolor

Fifteen would've been Geno fwiw. Or maybe sixteen, depending on how hard I'd want to try and make Qwilfish work. :p
 

ZelDan

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I think we determined that the 30 slots are including alts, but despite that I did say this isn't 100%. @PolarPanda has been trying to quell people so that we don't get hyped for no reason.



It's less about 'second class citizens' and more how indies really are their own thing. Think about this: why are indies successful? Because they offer something AAA companies do not focus on, so why would we want them involved in big AAA titles? Seriously, indies are best represented within themselves, not AAA companies. That's why Rivals of Aether and those of that nature are better choices for having indie characters repped in a fighting game/crossover title. Also, EricTheGamerman EricTheGamerman had a good point: indies don't quite work like other character choices.

For example, AAA games often have multiple releases and many characters involved, yet still have a single favorite that makes it easy to pick from if you can only pick one to represent the series (Simon for Castlevania, Cloud for Final Fantasy, Ryu for Street Fighter), but indies not only have the issue of many of the characters being beloved within a single game but also the issue of many characters loved among indies as well.

Think about trying to decide just for Undertale, for instance: do you pick Frisk, Sans, Papyrus, Undyne? All of them could work, and they are all equally loved and people would be equally upset no matter who got cut, unlike with Simon when Alucard was an AT or Ryu/Ken when Guile was an AT. Now, imagine only getting one or two choices for indies as a whole...who the hell do you pick? Sans or Frisk? Shantae? Shovel Knight? Quote? Celeste? Meat Boy? Isaac? Cuphead? Hollow Knight? Insert like 10 or more characters from popular indies and you see the problem.

Now compare to Uncharted: who do you pick? Nathan Drake, obviously, no brainer.

Indies games are their own thing, and they tend to connect with us better because they are their own thing: not just a game, but a project with soul and heart crafted when the budget is lacking. Thus, I think they should get nothing but small nods from bigger names to keep them as what we treasure them to be. If anything, it's less about indies being 'lesser than' AAA titles, and more that they are the perfect reprieve from AAA titles and need to stay separated to enjoy them, if that makes any sense.
Hollow Knight and Cuphead were great and Celeste might very well be GotY 2018 for me, but I don't think I'd put these 3 quite on the level of other indies when it comes to hypothetical indie representation. Some indies have had a closer relation with Nintendo, have been around longer, and unlike Celeste and Cuphead, have had more than one game to their name (I think Silksong is supposed to be a different game?). And of course I don't think any of those 3 have made anywhere near as much of a splash as something as Undertale. Not that they haven't been popular or successful, but Undertale is just a whole other level of popularity I believe.

BoI Isaac I really don't think would ever get into Smash. I know Sakurai has been open to adding more "mature" additions to Smash like Snake and Bayo, but BoI is probably still a bit much lol.

And yeah, an certain indie character getting in over others would make fans of the other indie characters butthurt, but, I mean, doesn't that just happen in general with non-indie characters in Smash?. Even if Cloud was one of the most logical choices for FF representation, that hasn't stopped people from wishing another FF character got in instead, like Terra or Black mage. Seriously, if I had a dollar for every time a Smash fan complained about a "stolen slot"...
 

EarlTamm

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Hot take: the only people that treat indies like second-class citizens are Gamefaqs users, because they don't want "horny" people playing their Smash Bros.
While I agree that is a very face palm worthy complaint levied to one indie in particular, is that really a thing said to indie fans as a whole? I don't go on Gamefaqs for obvious reasons.
 
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While I agree that is a very face palm worthy complaint levied to one indie in particular, is that really a thing said to indie fans as a whole? I don't go on Gamefaqs for obvious reasons.
Who knows, but one thing for sure is there are people out there that don't want indies for any good reasons beyond "the people who want that character are stupid, that won't happen".

The unwarranted insults will not end, as long as indies continue to have smaller appearances in Smash.
 
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Opossum

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Yes! Someone else who wants Crash in the game! View attachment 197919
Hell yeah. Not to stray too far from Geno for too long, but the original Crash Bandicoot was one of the first games I ever played, alongside Pokémon Silver, so Crash definitely holds a special place in my heart. :p
 
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14, well then...

1: Crash Bandicoot
2: Shantae
3: Poochy
4: Rayman
5: Sobble's evolution
6: Dixie Kong
7: Tails
8: Bandana Dee
9: Adeline
10: Mona
11: Rash
12: Banjo & Kazooie
13: Marco Rossi
14: Master Higgins

Most of those probably won't happen, but hey, you go with what you like.
 
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Maxie

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Hell yeah. Not to stray too far from Geno for too long, but the original Crash Bandicoot was one of the first games I ever played, alongside Pokémon Silver, so Crash definitely holds a special place in my heart. :p
Crash Bandicoot Warped was my first game. It's my favorite platformer as well as my favorite game of all time.
 

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Hey guys, it's been a while- I've been lurking.




And 14? Well... I can't promise that many, but I can give a few.

1. Geno
2. Wonder Red
3. Banjo
4. Shantae
5. Bandanna Dee
6. Celica and/or Edelgarde
7. Decidueye
8. Grookey's final evo
9. Protoman echo (EXTREMELY wishful thinking)
10. Captain Rainbow
11. Crash
12. Spyro
13. Chibi Robo
14. Dragalia Rep, or other mobile game- Fjorm/Anna

EDIT: did 14!
 
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Mastadoom88

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14 more characters isn't something I'll get my hopes up about, but I'll keep in mind.

To be honest, I dont care what happens after Geno gets in.

For fun though my picks would be

1. Geno
2. Porky Minch
3.Skull Kid
4. Banjo Kazooie
5 Issac (for his fans and my interest in the franchise as I never finished the first game)
5. Yuri Lowell (though he's not my preferred, I'll take Lloyd just as gladly)
6. Bomberman (cause I think he'd be unique and helped get into video games)
7. Bass from Megaman
8. Glover (because I think it'd be a fun wtf pick)
9. Phoenix Wright (because MvC3 was a huge let down for me)
10. Hollow Knight
11. Vaati
12. Bubble Bobble player character
13. Crono (if Geno is already in)
14. Terra from FF 6
 
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"A Tetromino should be playable"
"Indie characters shouldn't"
View attachment 197837
ok
is only a light rib please no hurt
To be fair, I didn’t say I was opposed to indies as playable characters in Smash. I mostly just said I struggle to see how they are a priority and that you’re really screwed when it comes to trying to choose one to represent all of indies.

Plus I think that the only reasonable indie choices are currently not playable in Smash (Shovel Knight and Shantae, Quote sadly doesn’t seem big enough to really get much traction as much sense as he may make). So I don’t really see much of a chance for playable indies in Ultimate. And my criticism was more born of specifically Undertale in Smash. Which you just won’t be able to convince me of to be fair as the logical choice. But that doesn’t mean I’d get angry at its inclusion as much as confused.

If we’re going to have an indie character, I really think it should be emblematic of an indie relationship with Nintendo, and a lot of the better choices for that aren’t in the running. So I don’t really buy just grabbing a current popular indie and making that work.

And I do think western third parties coming to Smash is a bigger deal than we maybe make it out to be. That opens the floodgates for a whole new set of potential characters and representations, and I think an indie would just be a really strange choice for the first. But I know people will disagree with me on that point.
 
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If I had to choose 14 more characters for future DLC (and couldn't promote Assist Trophies or create new Echo Fighters):

1. Geno
2. Banjo-Kazooie
3. Dante
4. Ryu Hayabusa
5. Master Chief
6. Decidueye
(No particular order after these first 6)
7. Doom Slayer
8. Phoenix Wright
9. Monster Hunter
10. Sora
11. Marina Liteyears
12. Rayman
13. Sub-Zero
14. Cranky Kong

Also, in regards to having Nintendo History, Cloud technically appeared on Nintendo consoles before being playable in Smash: Gameboy Advance, DS, and 3DS to name three systems. He technically had more representation on Nintendo consoles when he joined Smash than Lucas or Ness did when they joined Smash.
Cloud's appearances on Nintendo consoles prior to Smash were not technicalities. If going by Ballot standards, he qualifies.

As for 14 characters for DLC barring ATs and barring additional Echo fighters, I'd say these ones listed in no particular order.

  • Geno
  • Banjo-Kazooie
  • Doomguy/Doom Slayer
  • Bartz Klauser (Final Fantasy V)
  • Ryu Hayabusa
  • Terry Bogard (Default Male)
  • One Pokemon from Gen 3
  • One Pokemon from Gen 5
  • Wonder Red
  • Dante (Not the Ninja Theory one)
  • Rayman
  • A "Tales of" character
  • Dr. Eggman
  • Heihachi Mishima
 
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Cloud's appearances on Nintendo consoles prior to Smash were not technicalities. If going by Ballot standards, he qualifies.

As for 14 characters for DLC barring ATs and barring additional Echo fighters, I'd say these ones listed in no particular order.

  • Geno
  • Banjo-Kazooie
  • Doomguy/Doom Slayer
  • Bartz Klauser (Final Fantasy V)
  • Ryu Hayabusa
  • Terry Bogard (Default Male)
  • One Pokemon from Gen 3
  • One Pokemon from Gen 5
  • Wonder Red
  • Dante (Not the Ninja Theory one)
  • Rayman
  • A "Tales of" character
  • Dr. Eggman
  • Heihachi Mishima
Holy crap, a Tales character.. how could I forget?

If I had to choose a Tales character, it'd HAVE to be Yuri. I know Symphonia fans would love to pick Lloyd, but Yuri's the most beloved Tales character (he wins every Tales Popularity contest he is in, so Bandai Namco removed him from all future votes, lol xD) and for good reason.

Yuri is to "Tales of" as Ike is to Fire Emblem.
 
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ForsakenM

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I can't really do a 14 list because after Geno, I really am okay with anyone. Hell, I'm even okay with Erdrick getting in and hearing the drivel of fake Erdrick fans who bandwagoned just to be right as long as my blue puppet boi gets in.

If I had to make a list, it would contain all of the big requested characters everyone has been asking for for years, like Banjo and Isaac and Rayman and Bandanna Dee. It would just be Geno at the top and then the rest being 13 of the most highly requested characters because I want other fanbases to be happy and get their character, and like I've said before, as much as I love and want Geno I'd be okay if him never getting in equals all the other fan favorites making the roster. I'm okay with it because it's in my nature to give until it hurts and then keep giving as well as I believe that is how Geno would approach the situation: granting the wishes of others before taking on a task more selfish.

As for my own personal list, once again it's hard to make one because I couldn't even truly give you a list of five characters that I wanted, let alone 14. Other than Geno, I can only think of Goemon and Sora (despite how I feel about KH3 and the series as a whole now), and any others that come to mind don't have the same passion behind them. I love Blaziken and Decidueye, but both of them are done incredibly well in Pokken Tournament so I'm satisfied with that. I want Isaac in so badly for our Golden Brothers From Other Mothers, but I have no personal attachment to the series as of yet. Sure, I'm a Waluigi fan and I play as him in every game I can, but I feel like his entry to Smash would make him lose his position as 'The People's Champion' much like what happened to Ridley when he got in and I'm just fine with him staying how he is. I guess that since I don't have a lot of attachment to characters who have a chance to get in and most of my love for gaming is in obscure titles that have no actual chance (Magic Pengel: Quest For Color, Graffiti Kingdom, Shadow Hearts, Summon Night: Swordcraft Story series, Dokapon Kingdom, Custom Robo, insert any of the Rare games on N64 that never got continued) or they originated from different media (anything Dragon Ball, anything Naruto, hell anything anime at all really) and I realize the folly of it all that I can't give you a list of what I want: I just take a more realistic approach, like loving Dragon Ball FighterZ and letting Bandai know I want a Naruto version of FighterZ in the future.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a much more serious note, I just had the worst feeling in my life a day or so ago.

So I was looking for games to play online with friends and I remembered Smash Bros Crusade. So I redownloaded it and did the quick cheat to unlock all the stages and characters, and guess who is there? Blue puppet boi! Naturally, I had to try him out...

and I didn't like his playstyle.

I just sat there for an undetermined amount of minutes just staring at my monitor, feeling absolutely awful. Someone took the time to make Geno in their version of Smash, and I don't like playing as him. Sure, he could probably benefit from different normals and tilts and not relying on Timed Hits mechanic for 85-90% of his moveset, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't enjoy playing as him. It felt like a chore, it felt un-fun and unnecessarily difficult, and I hated myself for not enjoying him...but more than that, my gut sank at the idea: what if Nintendo actually does put Geno in, and I hate how he plays? What if after almost 23 years of waiting for Geno's return he actually gets something this big, and I don't enjoy playing as him? Does the make me a hypocrite? What do I do from there? What was the point of it all?

I moved on and tried other characters like Shantae and Mach Rider, but honestly I ended up quitting playing rather quickly because of how much it bothered me that Geno was on the roster and yet I didn't want to play him.

The idea still bothers me a bit, I'll admit, but since then I've realized that if Geno makes it into Smash for real Sakurai knows how to balance homage with fun and that Geno would likely make more sense to play than he does in Crusade. God, still a scary thought, though.

Holy crap, a Tales character.. how could I forget?

If I had to choose a Tales character, it'd HAVE to be Yuri. I know Symphonia fans would love to pick Lloyd, but Yuri's the most beloved Tales character (he wins every Tales Popularity contest he is in, so Bandai Namco removed him from all future votes, lol xD) and for good reason.

Yuri is to "Tales of" as Ike is to Fire Emblem.
Does that mean that Lloyd is to "Tales of" as Marth is to Fire Emblem, being less fan requested but still being more iconic?
 
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