Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

Klimax

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Why can't they be as genuine? Maybe the idea of a character they like of a series they really like was never given much thought because they knew how absurdly impossible it could be and now with the leak floating around, it reignited a passion they have for the series and the character. There's nothing wrong with that and I don't think it's fair to say they're not as genuine.
I really agree with this. I love Mach Rider and the Grinch Leak gave me some hope about her inclusion. I nearly didn't support Geno during Sm4sh's days outside of some votes during the ballot because in my opinion he had no chance and I started to be vocal for him again during 2018 because everyone was saying that he was likely. I would love to see Ryu Hayabusa in Smash because I absolutely adore the Ninja Gaiden games on NES but I didn't even think about him because in my head it was just impossible to see him in the game.
 

Ovaltine

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I really agree with this. I love Mach Rider and the Grinch Leak gave me some hope about her inclusion. I nearly didn't support Geno during Sm4sh's days outside of some votes during the ballot because in my opinion he had no chance and I started to be vocal for him again during 2018 because everyone was saying that he was likely. I would love to see Ryu Hayabusa in Smash because I absolutely adore the Ninja Gaiden games on NES but I didn't even think about him because in my head it was just impossible to see him in the game.
Honestly, I think we should keep being vocal about Geno and Mallow, for Smash or not. Even if it seems really unlikely, we can't just stop and give up, or else the support will die out and we'll really never be heard. For all we know, that extra support for Sm4sh might have gone a long way to getting Geno in Ultimate, but it was unfortunately pretty quiet.

I'll never stop hoping and vocalizing my love for these boys!
 
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I definitely believe I've seen Reggie go on record to say Joker stole the invitation, but I also don't think it means anything. If anything, it's probably a great joke they can use to mess with us. Nintendo loves to troll.

That being said, uh... can we get some tempers simmering down in here? It's feelin' kinda spicy. Let's look on the bright side: even if Erdrick is highly likely, we still don't know the other three DLC slots. Who knows what kind of exciting stuff will be there? Who knows what kind of surprises we might get?
I think I'm seeing something here...

Piranha Plant stole Geno's invitation.
Joker stole an invitation.
So that means all the DLC characters are thieves!
 
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Oof, my man with the crazy name, you really think that Erdrick would do that well.
Let's see. Bringing in potential new buyers like any third party would. There's potential millions from the Dragon Quest fanbase in Japan alone. And let's not kid ourselves and forget that despite not being as well known in the west, it has sold decently at worst, even getting a few millions of sales here and there in the US and Europe. And he's no where near as controversial as someone like say, Steve.


How many times do we have to go over that Smash's target demographic is less likely to know who Erdrick even is, and Smash's biggest sales are in the West, meaning that they would be putting in a character that most of their cash-cow doesn't resonate with...which means less money, and a good chance for upset fans to be vocal about the decision.
Problem is that your claim there requires a lot of assumptions here and there.

I mean, sure, people may not know who he is, but then wasn't that the case with Fire Emblem in Melee? Well, look what happened with that series' popularity.

Furthermore, what's with the assumption that just because people haven't heard of him before, that they won't buy him? Newsflash, Smash inclusion does help with recognition. Hell, that's part of the reason why the Geno fanbase fights for his inclusion in Smash. Hell, Smash speculation is kind of the main reason most people know about Geno. Because, I hate to say it, but chances are people may have heard more about Dragon Quest than they have the one single game that Geno has to his name.
Corrin was actually in a better situation because the West knows about Fire Emblem and likes it overall, the game Corrin is from just wasn't out in the West yet, and it still was not received well because it was over-saturation and a 'shill pick.' Erdrick has the problem of not really being known and still being a 'shill pick' in a time where everyone is holding onto their last shred of hope for their 7+ year requested character to make it in and seeing the most promise of that chance happening.
You're really trying to argue that Corrin had it better? In the thick of the Fire Emblem debacle of Smash, not to mention, the backlash of him taking up time at what people assumed to be a direct for ballot characters, and a game not even out in the west, without a legacy?

Also, what would Erdrick even be a shill pick for considering he's not the focus of the most recent game. He actually does have his game out, and has his resume set to actually facilitate his presence, and the stigma is against Fire Emblem characters, not medieval characters as a whole.

I rest my case. It speaks for itself. I get really wanting Geno in, but don't resort to trying to artificially put down whatever you consider competition.
 
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Ingenious!

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I think I'm seeing something here...

Piranha Plant stole Geno's invitation.
Joker stole an invitation.
So that means all the DLC characters are thieves!
All except for one, one that will bring justice down on the world of Super Smash Brothers.

OBJECTION!
YOUR HONOR! I have evidence that piranha plant did indeed stole geno´s invitation!
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btt1eWoH4DS/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
As you can see, there is no way that piranha plant DIDNT steal that invitation! *Intense music plays*
 

GoodGrief741

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I mean; alright? I'm allowed to criticize trends I see in the Smash community. This view is not too different than one fatman has expressed in the past, but if you feel you really need to apologize on my behalf, I can't really stop you. I do think manufactured support is defintley different than the people who campaign for years like the Kremlings and Space Pirates. I mean, does anyone remember Hilda's brief spike in popularity? I think you'd be hardpressed to find someone campaigning for them now.
As someone who has supported characters since Brawl, I don’t think temporary support or support after certain events diminishes their value. People can be fickle and they can be swayed, yes, but very few people will support a character they hate just to be right. It’s more that people will support a character because they’re okay with them, or they think they might be cool, or they never knew they wanted them. Not every support has to be diehard.
What the hell makes support "manufactured"? Honestly the reason characters like Hilda recieved brief spikes in campaigning is because after their game came out and goes away they don't have too much of a chance due to them getting replaced decently fast with new characters and games. The reason someone like Ridley lived so long is because Metroid and Ridley are, well, still alive (even if it was on hiatus for a bit) and not having the closest thing to a consistent main villain the series has was a gaping hole. The reason Isaac or Geno, however, lived so long is simply the fact that those characters aren't going anywhere. GS is dead and SMRPG (and by association Geno) is owned by SE. That's the reason they've been campaigned for for so long.

However, the reason someone like Hilda, or Lyn aren't getting supported as much is because their time has come and gone. The franchises they're from have moved past them. The series are still alive, yes, but the character is finished now. You can't really compare someone like Hilda to Geno.
Yo, Lyn still gets support. The hope is still alive.
m8 they're both anime style lead protagonists that wield swords. At a very base level they are similar. And when you look at the cast you have 9 other characters that fit into that trope not even counting Link who isn't ""anime"" but still uses a sword. That's what people had an issue with in Sm4sh and why people don't want more of those types of characters for DLC. Yeah it's just 9 out of over 70 but all those other characters at least feel very differently from one another and most were not all added in the same iteration of the series. That's the main reason why people got annoyed.
But that’s such a basic comparison though. It’s so superficial that there’s really no point in taking it seriously. It’s like saying Smash Bros. and PlayStation All-Stars are interchangeable. There are superficial similarities that led a person to make the connection, but that doesn’t mean it’s valid criticism because the devil is in the detail.
Joker stole Waluigi and Isaac's invites, and a threw one of them into some random bushes to get the cops off his tail. Little did he know that there was a certain P L A N T in those bushes...
You wanna make me cry? Cause you’re gonna make me cry.
All ending in a court case. Who stole the Smash invitation?

The smash Invite turnabout
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Could you write Smash?
I'm gonna answer that question.

DQ supporters at least have DQ to play with, for them having rep in Smash (What I'm complety ok with) is nice, but not as wonderful as it can be for a Geno Supporter to have Geno in. They do can be passionate of course, but again, even if DQ isn't represented in Smash, that's not a big deal since they have a full franchise to enjoy it.
And Geno supporters at least have SMRPG to play. I don’t see the point.
I think that when people refer to "anime style", they talk about a specific anime style (or Akira Toriyama's style because Dragon Ball is just too famous and everyone knows the style): The one that you see in Fire Emblem or every goddam recent anime (because let's be real, most of them look the same nowadays). Sure you can see characters in anime that look like Simon Belmont, but in recent anime, 99,9% of them will look like Richter. That's this specific style that people are talking about when they **** on "anime inspired characters".
Richter and Simon are the same style though. The difference is that Simon has a more unique design, but they aren’t styled like other anime characters. Dudes with short hair tend to look the same no matter how you draw them.
I am still invested in Mach Rider. I started a conversation about a hypothetical modern Mach Rider game on the thread just yesterday.
It was a fun convo.
Oof, my man with the crazy name, you really think that Erdrick would do that well. How many times do we have to go over that Smash's target demographic is less likely to know who Erdrick even is, and Smash's biggest sales are in the West, meaning that they would be putting in a character that most of their cash-cow doesn't resonate with...which means less money, and a good chance for upset fans to be vocal about the decision.

Corrin was actually in a better situation because the West knows about Fire Emblem and likes it overall, the game Corrin is from just wasn't out in the West yet, and it still was not received well because it was over-saturation and a 'shill pick.' Erdrick has the problem of not really being known and still being a 'shill pick' in a time where everyone is holding onto their last shred of hope for their 7+ year requested character to make it in and seeing the most promise of that chance happening.
You can keep saying that people in the West don’t know what DQ is, but that doesn’t make it true.
I'm saying the people who became vocal about him only after the leak are not as genuine as people who will support a character through thick and thin. Someone brought up Mach Rider earlier, and that's a good recent example.
There are a ton of reasons somebody can start supporting a character after a leak or something like that.

Using myself as an example, I never thought there was a point in campaigning for Prince Sable, Sukapon, or Mach Rider since it felt like wasted effort. However, after the former two were included as assists and the latter was ‘leaked’, it felt like support could do something. Likewise, there were more people in the support threads to discuss stuff with, so a lot of preexisting fans now had an excuse to chat.

I’m also a massive NES fan, but I never felt the use in supporting Simon until Vergeben leaked him. And I certainly never felt that Ryu Hayabusa had a shot until Simon’s confirmation.

Persona 5 was my favorite game of 2017, and yet Joker felt so impossible that my only post in his support thread prior to his reveal was ‘he can’t happen, he’s Playstation exclusive’.

I’m sure there are a lot more examples like that.

Okay since you bring them up I feel comfortable about saying this. I have never played an earthbound game. Why does Ninten look exactly like Ness with a sideways hat? I mean no offense or meanness by this. It just legitimately confuses me.
No particular reason, they just dress similarly. Ninten has a few other differences, and others that fans accentuate to differentiate them more (like Ninten wearing his bandanna/scarf from a Mother 1 ad.)
 

ZelDan

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I just think it's ridiculous to complain about sword users when there's 60+ characters that don't use swords. And of the Sword users, the only real samey ones are Roy, Chrom, and Lucina (and Lucina and Chrom are echoes, and Roy was first introduced back in Melee when people didn't complain about this ****, so...)

I also think people are focusing too much one the visual aspect of characters and forgetting other merits to them. yeah, Shulk is another anime-esque character with a sword, but he is also there to bring playable Xenoblade representation to the roster, just as much as Joker would bring Persona representation, and Erdrick DQ representation, one of the granddaddies of JRPGs. The Kid Icarus characters all look anime, yeah, but again, they bring us representation of the Kid Icarus franchise, an IP that had a well received game on the 3DS, as well as a classic from the NES era. Shouldn't this stuff matter more for a franchise that's all about bringing together a bunch of different characters from different worlds and that's known for being a celebration of video games?
 
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Geno and Mallow are going to be the next
:ulticeclimbers:
Funny enough, I actually remember there was a 4chan leak from way back before E3 that said Geno and Mallow would be getting in as a tag-team duo a la Icies. Now, I love me some Genos and Mallows, but at the time, I didn't know how to feel about the idea considering they both easily have enough moves to fill a unique moveset by themselves. At this point, though, I'd gladly take it. Anything for my SMRPG boys.
I mean, sure, people may not know who he is, but then wasn't that the case with Fire Emblem in Melee? Well, look what happened with that series' popularity.
Fair, but you forget that it took Fire Emblem over a decade after its inclusion in Smash to really break ground in the west with Awakening. It was still fairly niche before then, even considering Smash exposure. (And it's still probably Nintendo's tenth most popular contemporary series even with how hard it's been pushed.) When it took the series that long to really get rolling, it makes me question how much Smash really had to do with its popularity.
 
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As someone who has supported characters since Brawl, I don’t think temporary support or support after certain events diminishes their value. People can be fickle and they can be swayed, yes, but very few people will support a character they hate just to be right. It’s more that people will support a character because they’re okay with them, or they think they might be cool, or they never knew they wanted them. Not every support has to be diehard.

Yo, Lyn still gets support. The hope is still alive.

But that’s such a basic comparison though. It’s so superficial that there’s really no point in taking it seriously. It’s like saying Smash Bros. and PlayStation All-Stars are interchangeable. There are superficial similarities that led a person to make the connection, but that doesn’t mean it’s valid criticism because the devil is in the detail.

You wanna make me cry? Cause you’re gonna make me cry.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Could you write Smash?

And Geno supporters at least have SMRPG to play. I don’t see the point.

Richter and Simon are the same style though. The difference is that Simon has a more unique design, but they aren’t styled like other anime characters. Dudes with short hair tend to look the same no matter how you draw them.

It was a fun convo.

You can keep saying that people in the West don’t know what DQ is, but that doesn’t make it true.

There are a ton of reasons somebody can start supporting a character after a leak or something like that.

Using myself as an example, I never thought there was a point in campaigning for Prince Sable, Sukapon, or Mach Rider since it felt like wasted effort. However, after the former two were included as assists and the latter was ‘leaked’, it felt like support could do something. Likewise, there were more people in the support threads to discuss stuff with, so a lot of preexisting fans now had an excuse to chat.

I’m also a massive NES fan, but I never felt the use in supporting Simon until Vergeben leaked him. And I certainly never felt that Ryu Hayabusa had a shot until Simon’s confirmation.

Persona 5 was my favorite game of 2017, and yet Joker felt so impossible that my only post in his support thread prior to his reveal was ‘he can’t happen, he’s Playstation exclusive’.

I’m sure there are a lot more examples like that.



No particular reason, they just dress similarly. Ninten has a few other differences, and others that fans accentuate to differentiate them more (like Ninten wearing his bandanna/scarf from a Mother 1 ad.)
>But that’s such a basic comparison though. It’s so superficial that there’s really no point in taking it seriously. It’s like saying Smash Bros. and PlayStation All-Stars are interchangeable. There are superficial similarities that led a person to make the connection, but that doesn’t mean it’s valid criticism because the devil is in the detail.

Not really. I mean the detail is that there were a bunch of characters introduced in Sm4sh alone that people find to be very similar in certain ways and therefore people want characters that aren’t that. It’s an argument for diversity anon the types of newcomers we could get as DLC.

And after awhile if you keep adding more and more of a certain style of characters they begin to feel too similar to one another and the hoops Sakurai has to jump through in order to make them feel more unique just comes off as contrived. Besides the whole point
of SSB as a series is to celebrate gaming characters and if you keep having a lot the same type of character it feels like the series is holding itself back.

>And Geno supporters at least have SMRPG to play. I don’t see the point.

Lmao yeah that SMRPG series that’s totally getting new games on a regular basis like DQ.

I just think it's ridiculous to complain about sword users when there's 60+ characters that don't use swords. And of the Sword users, the only real samey ones are Roy, Chrom, and Lucina (and Lucina and Chrom are echoes, and Roy was first introduced back in Melee when people didn't complain about this ****, so...)

I also think people are focusing too much one the visual aspect of characters and forgetting other merits to them. yeah, Shulk is another anime-esque character with a sword, but he is also there to bring playable Xenoblade representation to the roster, just as much as Joker would bring Persona representation, and Erdrick DQ representation, one of the granddaddies of JRPGs. The Kid Icarus characters all look anime, yeah, but again, they bring us representation of the Kid Icarus franchise, an IP that had a well received game on the 3DS, as well as a classic from the NES era. Shouldn't this stuff matter more for a franchise that's all about bringing together a bunch of different characters from different worlds and that's known for being a celebration of video games?
Like it or not the visual aspect of characters is a part of what appeals to fans. And when you have a bunch of characters that feel too same-y in terms of their design and what they bring to the table added in a big chunk to a previous title it’s inevitable that some people aren’t going to like the idea of more of that type of character.

You bring up a good point regarding series representation. There are a lot of great series out there that haven’t received representation yet in Smash. And there are a lot of cool characters in series like Persona and DQ that aren’t your standard sword wielding protagonist.

That’s why Joker is interesting to me even as someone who doesn’t play Persona because the concept of a persona user in Smash is really cool. He brings something unique to the table other than wielding a sword (in his case a knife). That’s why Erdrick is the exact opposite of interesting to me assuming he’s just going to be wielding a sword as he’s often depicted. If it’s chibi Erdrick wielding a sword than that’s going to feel like the biggest joke to people who’d prefer not adding more anime swordfighters as he’s probably the most generic feeling classic anime swordfighter you could come up with.
 
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ZelDan

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>But that’s such a basic comparison though. It’s so superficial that there’s really no point in taking it seriously. It’s like saying Smash Bros. and PlayStation All-Stars are interchangeable. There are superficial similarities that led a person to make the connection, but that doesn’t mean it’s valid criticism because the devil is in the detail.

Not really. I mean the detail is that there were a bunch of characters introduced in Sm4sh alone that people find to be very similar in certain ways and therefore people want characters that aren’t that. It’s an argument for diversity anon the types of newcomers we could get as DLC.

And after awhile if you keep adding more and more of a certain style of characters they begin to feel too similar to one another and the hoops Sakurai has to jump through in order to make them feel more unique just comes off as contrived. Besides the whole point
of SSB as a series is to celebrate gaming characters and if you keep having a lot the same type of character it feels like the series is holding itself back.

>And Geno supporters at least have SMRPG to play. I don’t see the point.

Lmao yeah that SMRPG series that’s totally getting new games on a regular basis like DQ.



Like it or not the visual aspect of characters is a part of what appeals to fans. And when you have a bunch of characters that feel too same-y in terms of their design and what they bring to the table added in a big chunk to a previous title it’s inevitable that some people aren’t going to like the idea of more of that type of character.

You bring up a good point regarding series representation. There are a lot of great series out there that haven’t received representation yet in Smash. And there are a lot of cool characters in series like Persona and DQ that aren’t your standard sword wielding protagonist.

That’s why Joker is interesting to me even as someone who doesn’t play Persona because the concept of a persona user in Smash is really cool. He brings something unique to the table other than wielding a sword (in his case a knife). That’s why Erdrick is the exact opposite of interesting to me assuming he’s just going to be wielding a sword as he’s often depicted. If it’s chibi Erdrick wielding a sword than that’s going to feel like the biggest joke to people who’d prefer not adding more anime swordfighters as he’s probably the most generic feeling classic anime swordfighter you could come up with.
Out of curiosity have you actually heard people complain about these designs outside of Smash forums or the internet? I still question if that many people within the millions and millions of Smash owners really give a crap about it, especially when it comes to people outside the Smash bubble.

Also, I don't really see how a knife is that much different from a sword. Knives are basically just a smaller version of a sword. And if we are going to compliment Joker for having a different type of blade, why not do it for other characters? Shulk's Monado is definitely not your typical sword. Robin wields various different blades, such a thunder blade. The Pits wield a bow and Sword hybrid. Corrin has a chainsaw-esque sword.

As for Erdrick, wouldn't adding chibi Erdrick actually make him stand out more from the other anime characters by making him look different compared to the more "realistic" looking characters? Outside of that there's not much else I can say about Erdrick as I never played a game he came from. AS far as representing series go, one of the good ways of going about it, and the way Sakurai typically goes about it, is adding the most important character to a franchise to the roster to represent the series/represent it first (like with Marth for FE) and if what people say about DQ is true, Erdrick would be the most sensible inclusion from that perspective.
 

ZelDan

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I guess one thing I will say is that, while I don't think the whole swordsman argument is not that big of a deal, I do wish they would have done a better job at representing the FE side, or making some of the characters we got feel more unique, like maybe have Lucina and Chrom have Lances in their moveset to make less of their moves based around swords. Maybe add characters that don't use a sword.

As far as sworduser stuff is concerned, I'd say this is the biggest contributer. Atleast characters like Shulk and Erdrick are bringing more series representaion and different pieces of gaming history with them...
 
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I guess one thing I will say is that, while I don't think the whole swordsman argument is not that big of a deal, I do wish they would have done a better job at representing the FE side, or making some of the characters we got feel more unique, like maybe have Lucina and Chrom have Lances in their moveset to make less of their moves based around swords. Maybe add characters that don't use a sword.
A character from FE that doesn't use a sword? Does that even exists? :4pacman:
 
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Geno and Mallow are going to be the next
:ulticeclimbers:
Nah, I'm pretty staunchly against tag-teams. Ice Climbers and Rosalina & Luma work because they're kind of inherently tied to one another, but I don't want unique characters paired up. I want the likes of Geno and Mallow to represent themselves, not be shoehorned to each other. That's the reason I'm so glad Dixie and Diddy didn't happen, and somewhat disappointed we didn't just get Squirtle and Ivysaur back on their own.

I want my beloved characters to get all the independent spotlight they deserve!

Nintendo saying Joker "stole" an invitation was likely just fancy wording to align with his series.
I mean Joker is 100% The Phantom Thief and they're having a laugh with that concept. I don't see any reason to see that as anything at all and I'm confused as to where the concept comes from of anything else haha.


Also as for sword fighters. My anecdotal experience has been that people complain about counters WAY more than another character using swords. Mostly because that's just way more annoying to them when I do it and their big hit gets turned on them. The most negative sword fighter comment I've ever heard in real life has been; "Is this character also from Fire Emblem." Not exactly the most damning commentary on the game. Most people just seem to love having all kinds of characters and also very specifically the veterans back that they love.

Plus, swords are just in everything and basically the most common weapon to be seen in fantasy. They're popular for a reason because they can be pretty bad-***. I just have never understood this argument, especially when a large amount of sword users are beloved characters.

And anybody saying Robin plays like other sword users... WHAT? All his special are built around mage abilities and that makes him play very differently from the others. Shulk and Cloud offer such unique takes on the way you play even if they still fundamentally act as characters swinging a sword around. I just don't see the lack of variety in sword users that others seem to see so often. As has been pointed out, despite being so similar I play Marth and Roy as entirely different characters and they feel different, and they're among the most similar of the sword fighters...
 
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Nah, I'm pretty staunchly against tag-teams. Ice Climbers and Rosalina & Luma work because they're kind of inherently tied to one another, but I don't want unique characters paired up. I want the likes of Geno and Mallow to represent themselves, not be shoehorned to each other. That's the reason I'm so glad Dixie and Diddy didn't happen, and somewhat disappointed we didn't just get Squirtle and Ivysaur back on their own.
bRUH, You know you can play with one pokemon only with no punishment? You can play the hell out of Squirtle, Ivysaur or Charizard if you want without changing it, I think it's pretty neat.
Also as for sword fighters. My anecdotal experience has been that people complain about counters WAY more than another character using swords. .
I'm actually gonna lose my **** if Erdrick's Down B ends to be a Counter
 
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bRUH, You know you can play with one pokemon only with no punishment? You can play the hell out of Squirtle, Ivysaur or Charizard if you want without changing it, I think it's pretty neat.

I'm actually gonna lose my **** if Erdrick's Down B ends to be a Counter
Oh, I'm aware. It makes Pokemon Trainer an actually usable character for me. The Pokemon Trainer still feels a little too balanced around the idea of having all three choices available and I would like them all to have their Down B moves from say Project M in a perfect world. Sure, it's neat, but I just prefer not transforming or paired characters is all haha.
 
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Honestly, I think we should keep being vocal about Geno and Mallow, for Smash or not. Even if it seems really unlikely, we can't just stop and give up, or else the support will die out and we'll really never be heard. For all we know, that extra support for Sm4sh might have gone a long way to getting Geno in Ultimate, but it was unfortunately pretty quiet.

I'll never stop hoping and vocalizing my love for these boys!
At least your boys are noticed, I'm lucky if Master Higgins is paid attention to at all.

Then I doubt he'd have it, unless he'll get a conceptual one like Peach or Shulk.

(Fun fact: Some of Joker's Personas have counter skills)
He'd just have a reflector shield instead. :4pacman:

But really though, sword users are not synonymous with counters, otherwise :ultkrool:would count. And :ultmetaknight: sure doesn't have one, even if he has a definitely-not-Final-Aether FS these days.
 
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You know, I think the thing with Fire Emblem is that, beyond the silly concern about weapon variety, secondary characters in general, even fan favorites, have basically been screwed over, since character inclusions are treated no different than Pokémon. Awakening's most noteworthy secondaries are lucky to even get in at all (presumably because their source game was going to be the final one in the FE series), for everything else it's Lord or bust. And even then timing is still a factor to avoid missing the boat (see Lyn). It's fine if not many are chosen since there's like a gorillion characters, but there aren't even any villains that got picked.

That, and the content in general doesn't really convey the series' recurring elements that well. Where are the beast people, winged horses or actual locations that aren't Arena Ferox? An outsider who hears of it via Smash only gets a vague idea of how FE is like from this, whereas with other series there is no question that you can tell how they are like, even with ROB, who has no stage, but you can still tell how his peripheral works.
 
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Fair, but you forget that it took Fire Emblem over a decade after its inclusion in Smash to really break ground in the west with Awakening. It was still fairly niche before then, even considering Smash exposure. (And it's still probably Nintendo's tenth most popular contemporary series even with how hard it's been pushed.) When it took the series that long to really get rolling, it makes me question how much Smash really had to do with its popularity.
No one ever said Smash was the sole reason for Fire Emblem flourishing in the west. It is what got the ball rolling since it helped people become far more familiar with it, like Smash does.
 

Ovaltine

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REALLY?! I totally forgot! can't wait to play SMRPG: Seven Houses on my Switch :D
Yeah, this is pretty much my only beef here is that DQ gets content all the time on a regular basis. SMRPG and its properties haven't gotten new content in so, so long, despite the fan demand, despite people rallying for Square to bring them back, despite everything. Honestly, of all of the Square seven, only Geno and Crono suffer from that, and at least Crono had some more games under his belt and less impossible ties with Nintendo's Mario franchise. Geno's in easily the crappiest situation of the seven.
 

Zack E.

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Yeah, this is pretty much my only beef here is that DQ gets content all the time on a regular basis. SMRPG and its properties haven't gotten new content in so, so long, despite the fan demand, despite people rallying for Square to bring them back, despite everything. Honestly, of all of the Square seven, only Geno and Crono suffer from that, and at least Crono had some more games under his belt and less impossible ties with Nintendo's Mario franchise. Geno's in easily the crappiest situation of the seven.
Tbh, this is one of the reasons I want Crono to be DLC along with Geno in wave 1. They both need a revival, and Smash would do it perfectly for them.
 

Ovaltine

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Tbh, this is one of the reasons I want Crono to be DLC along with Geno in wave 1. They both need a revival, and Smash would do it perfectly for them.
Eh, I don't know about Crono. He has so many hoops to go through and so many legal issues behind him (along with personal stuff with the devs) that a Smash inclusion might not revive him. Geno being in Smash would more than likely signal a revival, or at least Square's willingness to, you know, actually use him instead of refusing to like the kindergarten child refusing to share their toys.
 
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Yeah, but despite everything, and since SE is working in past titles, I see the possibility of a Chrono Trigger Remake for the Switch with the Octopath Traveler Engine. And that'd AWESOME.
More possible than a SMRPG remake and that's because Chrono Trigger get released every year, anywhere. (like apps for Android and IOS) lmao
 

Zack E.

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Eh, I don't know about Crono. He has so many hoops to go through and so many legal issues behind him (along with personal stuff with the devs) that a Smash inclusion might not revive him. Geno being in Smash would more than likely signal a revival, or at least Square's willingness to, you know, actually use him instead of refusing to like the kindergarten child refusing to share their toys.
Does it have to do with the way the companies who created the game went on split paths?
 

Ovaltine

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Does it have to do with the way the companies who created the game went on split paths?
It's definitely a large part of that, yeah. That being said, Dax makes a good point that Square has a heck of a lot of passion for rereleasing CT, and their statements about remastering old games gives Crono a new chance to shine again.

SMRPG? How many rereleases has it gotten? Two VC releases (one of which can't be obtained anymore, the Wii release) and the SNES Classic. Compared to CT, that's nothing, and I'm sure Nintendo had to do a hell of a lot of finagling for it to happen. Square just doesn't care about SMRPG. It's... kinda painfully obvious.

Hopefully, their statements of bringing older games to the Switch with a new flair will apply to SMRPG, too.
 

Zack E.

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It's definitely a large part of that, yeah. That being said, Dax makes a good point that Square has a heck of a lot of passion for rereleasing CT, and their statements about remastering old games gives Crono a new chance to shine again.

SMRPG? How many rereleases has it gotten? Two VC releases (one of which can't be obtained anymore, the Wii release) and the SNES Classic. Compared to CT, that's nothing, and I'm sure Nintendo had to do a hell of a lot of finagling for it to happen. Square just doesn't care about SMRPG. It's... kinda painfully obvious.

Hopefully, their statements of bringing older games to the Switch with a new flair will apply to SMRPG, too.
Well, CT wasn't on the SNES Classic, but SMRPG was, so it's not like it always has the upper hand.

But, yeah, I would really like Crono. Not as much as Geno of course lol
 

Ovaltine

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Well, CT wasn't on the SNES Classic, but SMRPG was, so it's not like it always has the upper hand.

But, yeah, I would really like Crono. Not as much as Geno of course lol
Honestly, of all of the Square seven, I probably would have been happiest with Crono if we didn't get Geno, haha. I mean, I guess... at least Erdrick is also an Akira Toriyama character? Also, Erdrick has a cute female alt, which my gay *** can totally get behind.
 
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Out of curiosity have you actually heard people complain about these designs outside of Smash forums or the internet? I still question if that many people within the millions and millions of Smash owners really give a crap about it, especially when it comes to people outside the Smash bubble.

Also, I don't really see how a knife is that much different from a sword. Knives are basically just a smaller version of a sword. And if we are going to compliment Joker for having a different type of blade, why not do it for other characters? Shulk's Monado is definitely not your typical sword. Robin wields various different blades, such a thunder blade. The Pits wield a bow and Sword hybrid. Corrin has a chainsaw-esque sword.

As for Erdrick, wouldn't adding chibi Erdrick actually make him stand out more from the other anime characters by making him look different compared to the more "realistic" looking characters? Outside of that there's not much else I can say about Erdrick as I never played a game he came from. AS far as representing series go, one of the good ways of going about it, and the way Sakurai typically goes about it, is adding the most important character to a franchise to the roster to represent the series/represent it first (like with Marth for FE) and if what people say about DQ is true, Erdrick would be the most sensible inclusion from that perspective.
I actually had a conversation about this with one of my best friends last week who is comparatively much more casual as far as speculation and things goes and when he was asking about DLC characters that are rumored and I brought up Erdrick he said that there are a lot of that kind of character in the game already. Obviously alluding to the animu swordsman thing. Or when I’m hanging out with people and playing the game people have joked about all the swords in the game. Again that’s just my anecdotal experience but you asked.

A knife is pretty different than a sword m8. It’s a completely different type of weapon. I mean are you being serious? I didn’t think I’d have to list out every aspect of Joker that makes him unique but he has guns as well which is something that differentiates him and put him more in line with bayonetta or snake. But then again we don’t know how he’s going to play. He just has that potential.

I don’t really feel like going through and complimenting each character for slight differences from other characters. I already brought up in previous discussion that if more FE characters were like Robin it wouldn’t be a big deal. I think Corrin is more on the unique side too. But at the end of the day they’re still FE sword users. And Shulk has some interesting aspects but at the end of the day he’s a anime-esque sword user. It was all those characters getting in the same game that people got tired of and why they’re now feeling burnt out about the idea of more anime sword users. Hence why, and this is the third time I’ve had to write this, Sakurai himself was hesitant about adding another FE character. As far as I remember it’s why he initially didn’t add Chrom. That’s pretty telling.

Do you really see Erdrick being chibi to be that big of a variation from other sword fighters to actually be interesting though? Like if his whole gimmick is “yeah he is anime-esque and has a sword..... but he’s smol :^)” that’s going to kind of suck imo. Besides the whole point of adding new characters and franchises to smash is to have characters that do things differently than others already represented. Having a character that wields a sword but is small and slides a bit is going to feel very underwhelming to a lot of people especially those wanting more unique SE reps that were actually requested heavily.
 
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Well, CT wasn't on the SNES Classic, but SMRPG was, so it's not like it always has the upper hand.

But, yeah, I would really like Crono. Not as much as Geno of course lol
That's why Ovaltine said "Square just doesn't care about SMRPG. It's... kinda painfully obvious. "
The SNES Classic was made by Nintendo. Nintendo cares about SMRPG, Square doesn't. Buuut, they love money so they would never sell it. (cuz is better to have low forever entries than a big one entry)
 
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