Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

ForsakenM

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Not gonna lie, you're really good at pep-talking me back into having better hopes, haha. I still think that he's coming, mostly because I want to protect myself from the hurt of hoping for/expecting someone else (especially Geno)... but I wish I were in a position where I could think, "Well, Geno's Mii costume was the only post-ballot one that wasn't promoted to playable, so it's probably him and Erdrick is leakbait."

That being said, though, it is super weird that Geno, the only post-ballot Mii outfit that didn't get upgraded to playable, is still not playable. At least, I'm talking in terms of the ones that were ballot-influenced to begin with (Geno's, K. Rool's, etc).
Yeah but, we've been over Square and how they like money and are character stingy, which they honestly have every right to be. Nintendo is honestly the same way, as you'll never see Mario, Link, Fox, Samus or Kirby on any other major competitor console.

Btw guys, I edited my previous post to offer discussion, so I will quote just the spoiler part.

You seem to be in touch with the thread though, so maybe we should offer additional conversation. I will do so, but if you are a big KH fan and haven't gotten all the endings of KH3 yet, DO NOT READ THE SPOILER!

So with the Secret Ending basically hinting that the next KH game/perhaps DLC will focus on other Square properties and make them into worlds to visit and specifically Verum Rex and The World Ends With You are shown AND that a port of KH3 to Switch may be in the works due to sales and requests, do you think these are signs that Sora might make it to Smash? What about Neku? It could be an advertisement for both KH and TWEWY, which would be crazy but I'm not throwing it out at all.
Once this topic of convo gets revv'd up, I have something that brings it back towards the main topic of this thread.
 
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if he does get in, Nintendo made a huge mistake in terms of fan appeal
The "Cloud" of DQ is a huge mistake in fan appeal? I mean,I'm not particularly for or against him, but I think we aught to not go down the path of trying to haphazardly paint characters we aren't interested in as misfires. It's not like the case with Corrin, come on now. :U
 

Zack E.

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Yeah but, we've been over Square and how they like money and are character stingy, which they honestly have every right to be. Nintendo is honestly the same way, as you'll never see Mario, Link, Fox, Samus or Kirby on any other major competitor console.

Btw guys, I edited my previous post to offer discussion, so I will quote just the spoiler part.



Once this topic of convo gets revv'd up, I have something that brings it back towards the main topic of this thread.
What happens at the end of KH3 to make it seem like it is hinting at something?
 

punished faygo

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All of your responses have been super defensive over the fact that I'm explaining to you why people don't want more of those characters in. You can be bootyblasted that people have a difference of opinion but don't shoot the messenger and say you're not taking someone seriously over a comparison between two characters or that its a meme. Because that's not a very constructive discussion. Unless you just want to use me as a punching bag to take out all your anger over people not wanting more anime swordfighters in. If that's what gives you joy go for it I guess lol
Lmfao at you literally assuming everything about my posts. When the **** did anyone say I was using you as a punching bag? When the **** was I taking out any anger towards you? When the **** was I trying to spread anime swordie propaganda? I didn't even ****ing insult you at any point, man. I just see what I perceive as a baseless complaint and I'm calling it out. Now maybe you'll still be open to some sort of constructive coversati-

I don't know if you suffer from some sort of visual impairment
...You're literally just being an ******* at this point for no discernible reason.


It is a very base comparison, but that's just what people are tired of. Is it superficial? Sure.
And this is why I'm saying it's a baseless criticism. All of it is funneled from "ew humans". That's ****ing it. It's superficial as ****.

Every single thing besides the classification of humanoid and uses swords is different between the swordfighters. Literally everything. Maybe the FE dudes share counters and an entrance animation together but that's ****ing it.

Maybe like the 3 people who actually care so ****ing much about "muh humans in my cartoon childrens fighting game ew gross I only want bears and dolls" can't find any differences between Cloud and Shulk, but honestly that's not my problem.

Honestly sometimes I just really, really want Isaac or Erdrick just to see more randos whine about baseless **** like that. Whatever I'm done with this argument, it's just me and you going "no u" at each other.
 

Ovaltine

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Maybe like the 3 people who actually care so ****ing much about "muh humans in my cartoon childrens fighting game ew gross I only want bears and dolls" can't find any differences between Cloud and Shulk, but honestly that's not my problem.
What if we could just put Cloud in Geno's attire and Shulk in a cute bear kigurumi? Everyone will be happy.

... Sorry, just... trying to inject some humor and lighten the mood after, uh... all this.

So, uh.

We sure love them star-filled dolls, huh?
 

KoopaSaki

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I still am deeply hoping for geno to make it in as future dlc as I feel he is more likely than my 2nd most wanted being Isaac but all I can really hope for is that someday that dream can come true for either of them. I was so sad neither of the two made base despite all we had going for them then. I just want to hear your guys opinions on both of their chances. Is Isaac forever doomed to be shafted because so many players just assume he’s another generic anime swordfighter?
 

Zack E.

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I still am deeply hoping for geno to make it in as future dlc as I feel he is more likely than my 2nd most wanted being Isaac but all I can really hope for is that someday that dream can come true for either of them. I was so sad neither of the two made base despite all we had going for them then. I just want to hear your guys opinions on both of their chances. Is Isaac forever doomed to be shafted because so many players just assume he’s another generic anime swordfighter?
The majority of Isaac's moves don't involve using his sword, though. He mostly uses psynergy, so I believe he would be good there
 

Ovaltine

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I still am deeply hoping for geno to make it in as future dlc as I feel he is more likely than my 2nd most wanted being Isaac but all I can really hope for is that someday that dream can come true for either of them. I was so sad neither of the two made base despite all we had going for them then. I just want to hear your guys opinions on both of their chances. Is Isaac forever doomed to be shafted because so many players just assume he’s another generic anime swordfighter?
In terms of Smash, my hopes for Isaac aren't very high, but with Golden Sunday and Nintendo having heard the backlash, I honestly think that Isaac and Golden Sun have a good change to be revived. If they come back strong, then I think that his chances would skyrocket for the next game.

As for hopes for Isaac to be DLC at some point in Ultimate? Very, very low. He has the plus of being a first party, so there's no need for a year of negotiation before Sakurai can add him in. He'd just have to be planned and added. Maybe Nintendo will backpedal after realizing the poor reception and will promote his AT. I sincerely doubt that will happen, though.
 

punished faygo

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Is Isaac forever doomed to be shafted because so many players just assume he’s another generic anime swordfighter?
Isaac is pretty unique, actually, and Sakurai (thankfully) doesn't pay attention to "generic anime swordfighter" conplaints. I actually think his best shot might be in the base game of the next Smash/another DLC wave, as apparently NOA was surprised at the backlash over Isaac being an AT.
 

ForsakenM

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The "Cloud" of DQ is a huge mistake in fan appeal? I mean,I'm not particularly for or against him, but I think we aught to not go down the path of trying to haphazardly paint characters we aren't interested in as misfires. It's not like the case with Corrin, come on now. :U
Oof, my man with the crazy name, you really think that Erdrick would do that well. How many times do we have to go over that Smash's target demographic is less likely to know who Erdrick even is, and Smash's biggest sales are in the West, meaning that they would be putting in a character that most of their cash-cow doesn't resonate with...which means less money, and a good chance for upset fans to be vocal about the decision.

Corrin was actually in a better situation because the West knows about Fire Emblem and likes it overall, the game Corrin is from just wasn't out in the West yet, and it still was not received well because it was over-saturation and a 'shill pick.' Erdrick has the problem of not really being known and still being a 'shill pick' in a time where everyone is holding onto their last shred of hope for their 7+ year requested character to make it in and seeing the most promise of that chance happening.

What happens at the end of KH3 to make it seem like it is hinting at something?
At the end of KH3 Sora seemingly fades from existence in an effort to save Kairi, and after an epilogue that teases events from Union X and it's variants are coming into fruition finally, it shows Sora waking up in Shibuya, Japan...except that it looks an awful lot like Shibuya from The World Ends With You, complete with the 104 building. Riku also wakes up in Shibuya, but in a different one with a 109 building I believe and the character from Verum Rex (IE what was Final Fantasy 13 Versus) looking over him from atop a building, and another cloaked member making a heart sign with their fingers over the moon to make it look like Kingdom Hearts. This suggests that future KH content will splash over even more into other Square franchises, which leaves a lot of openings, and if Square is using KH as a way to possibly invigorate old franchises it would make sense for Sora to appear in Smash to get further spreading of this as it would advertise not only KH but Square's other franchises now. No Disney characters are shown in this Secret Ending either, leading some people to believe KH might be moving away from that aesthetic (hopefully not TOO much) which would also make it easier for Sora to get into Smash with no Disney tied to him if Disney's impact in the KH series gets lessened.

Maybe like the 3 people who actually care so ****ing much about "muh humans in my cartoon childrens fighting game ew gross I only want bears and dolls" can't find any differences between Cloud and Shulk, but honestly that's not my problem.

Honestly sometimes I just really, really want Isaac or Erdrick just to see more randos whine about baseless **** like that. Whatever I'm done with this argument, it's just me and you going "no u" at each other.
Woof, this is what Ovaltine Ovaltine was foreseeing, I get it now. So, before you respond to me, keep in mind that I will not be attacking you so try not to react in a similar manner, okay? Cool.

That put out there, I gotta say you have been rather emotional this whole time: we you aren't acting like this argument has no basis and retort in a mocking manner, you respond like this where you are practically throwing your rage-filled heart onto your keyboard just because someone tossed a bit of your own medicine at you. The facts are that there is a bias against pretty boys/girls that wield swords in Smash, even if it's ridiculous grounds that are being stood on. Seriously, I was one of those mocked for considering Lucina and Chrom brand new fighters because of how they play so differently even though they rip so much from their bases.

Also, I think there is some bias in your argument that you are letting proceed your actual argument: your own signature proves it. You mainly play sword-wielding characters, and minus this change of Wolf over Lucina, that entire list is either humans or humanoids. So yes, your attachment to these kinds of characters has been MORE than proven with your most recent post. We get it: you like them and acknowledge them for being fun and unique in their own ways. So do I, and most Smash players do...but casuals don't always see it that way. The minute they see a human wielding a sword, they could esaily be out for blood because they are sick of it. Most of Smash 4's announcements contained a sword-wielding human or a human in general, and thus people want some variety. They are sick of FE in general now despite the large pool of unique characters to pull from because it hasn't BEEN pulled from all that much and they are tired of swordwielders for the same reason, now that is started to leak into human/humanoid characters. If you look a the big requests like Geno, Banjo, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Rayman...you see a pattern: they don't really look human AND they don;t wield swords AND they are heavily requested. This doesn't count for Issac, but he has a lot of variety in his moveset to pull from. Lloyd falls into this group as well as far as I've been told, the fact that they can focus around his berserker playstyle (don't quote me, just pulling from what I've been told, I've never touched a Tales Of game in my life) to make him unique compared to the other swordwielders.

The problem with Erdrick is that he doesn't bring this to the table. If they go with all his other items, he becomes a more 'anime' Link. If they work in magic, he's Robin 2.0, and Shulk and Corrin also cover crazy abilities, stat-changes and in a way with Corrin having multiple weapons (when not already covered by Link). The only way to make him more unique is to make him heavily armored and work around that, but Ike and now Ganon (somewhat) fill the role of a heavy-hitting swordwielder who can take hits and keep on trucking. Add in the fact that he's yet another human, and he's another human that wield yet another sword, and that he's 'anime' and you see where the problems lie for many people and...

Isaac is pretty unique, actually, and Sakurai (thankfully) doesn't pay attention to "generic anime swordfighter" conplaints. I actually think his best shot might be in the base game of the next Smash/another DLC wave, as apparently NOA was surprised at the backlash over Isaac being an AT.
This isn't true, as Sakurai was wary of adding Corrin due to the amount of FE and swordwielding characters in the game already, but he was convinced that he could be unique, which did happen. With all these angles already taken, what does Erdrick have to offer, and more specifically...what can he offer that will make him stand out enough to impress instead of disappoint and outrage?
 
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Lmfao at you literally assuming everything about my posts. When the **** did anyone say I was using you as a punching bag? When the **** was I taking out any anger towards you? When the **** was I trying to spread anime swordie propaganda? I didn't even ****ing insult you at any point, man. I just see what I perceive as a baseless complaint and I'm calling it out. Now maybe you'll still be open to some sort of constructive coversati-



...You're literally just being an ******* at this point for no discernible reason.



And this is why I'm saying it's a baseless criticism. All of it is funneled from "ew humans". That's ****ing it. It's superficial as ****.

Every single thing besides the classification of humanoid and uses swords is different between the swordfighters. Literally everything. Maybe the FE dudes share counters and an entrance animation together but that's ****ing it.

Maybe like the 3 people who actually care so ****ing much about "muh humans in my cartoon childrens fighting game ew gross I only want bears and dolls" can't find any differences between Cloud and Shulk, but honestly that's not my problem.

Honestly sometimes I just really, really want Isaac or Erdrick just to see more randos whine about baseless **** like that. Whatever I'm done with this argument, it's just me and you going "no u" at each other.
Yikes! That's a lot of no no words and insults from someone who isn't angry! You just came off as very defensive and dismissive just because I didn't agree with you. When you say you're not taking someone seriously and disregarding their arguments over a comparison between two characters that's pretty dismissive. I genuinely do not know you and therefore do not know if you have any sort of visual impairments. The visual difference between MM and Samus is pretty clear. Sorry if that triggered you. It's not a baseless criticism because some people genuinely got tired of the same types of characters getting into Sm4sh. Sakurai himself even noted it when he said there were too many FE characters and he's the director of the series.

If you genuinely don't see the similarities between the characters we're discussing I genuinely think you should go up to people that you know and ask them if they look similar or have the same type of aesthetic. I guarantee they'd say yes. It's not just 3 people saying this thing or it wouldn't be a "meme" at this point which you've brought up. A lot of people genuinely don't want more of that type of character. Some do or don't care, but a lot of people don't. Anyway I've obviously upset you by engaging you in this topic so I'm okay with dropping it. Just try to have a bit more of a level head when discussing things like this in the future.
 
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Zack E.

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I know it's possible Geno might not make it.

However, I'm fairly confident he will be DLC in wave 1. If he isn't in wave 1, I don't think it's likely that he would make it into wave 2 since, according to Polar, it isn't planned yet. Unless separate DLC characters were planned at the same time as wave 1, I'm not confident that Geno will be DLC if he isn't in wave 1
 

Ovaltine

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I know it's possible Geno might not make it.

However, I'm fairly confident he will be DLC in wave 1. If he isn't in wave 1, I don't think it's likely that he would make it into wave 2 since, according to Polar, it isn't planned yet. Unless separate DLC characters were planned at the same time as wave 1, I'm not confident that Geno will be DLC if he isn't in wave 1
The fact that NoJ still has Geno on the mind even as recently as now with that Switch update makes me honestly hopeful, if not for Smash DLC, then for something, anything related to him up-and-coming, hopefully alongside Mallow. The SMRPG references in the game and with PP, Geno being namedropped so much recently, the SMK segment... He and Mallow are on their minds. For what reason is a question whose answer we're not yet privy to. It could be big... or it could just be tiny fanservice that'll get shelved soon for another ten or twenty years. :drsad:

That being said, I doubt he's in this wave, but for misc. DLC or even a possible future wave, I think there is hope. Hell, Sakurai recently met up with Suda for 'business relations', so who knows? Maybe something is in planning that we don't know about.
 
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Let me change my question: Are you implying that Erdrick's supporters, especially those who supported him after the leak, aren't as passionate for the character as those who support Geno?

You made mention that people are supporting him just because they want to be right when a character is announced.
I'm saying the people who became vocal about him only after the leak are not as genuine as people who will support a character through thick and thin. Someone brought up Mach Rider earlier, and that's a good recent example.
 
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not everyone who is vocal about a character after a leak or theory or whatnot is vocal just because they see the character as likely and they want to be right.

Take me, for example: seeing people bash Minecraft because of its fanbase (what an awful reason), I wasn't very confident on talking about it until Steve was starting to get talked about due to Vergeben, even with some positive reception. I'd love Steve or a Creeper to be playable in Smash.

I also did something similar with Skull Kid, because while I like the character Smash just didn't occur to me for whatever reason. Tbh it was kinda the same way with Steve as I didn't think much about it until the leak.
 

Foz

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I'm saying the people who became vocal about him only after the leak are not as genuine as people who will support a character through thick and thin. Someone brought up Mach Rider earlier, and that's a good recent example.
Why can't they be as genuine? Maybe the idea of a character they like of a series they really like was never given much thought because they knew how absurdly impossible it could be and now with the leak floating around, it reignited a passion they have for the series and the character. There's nothing wrong with that and I don't think it's fair to say they're not as genuine.
 

Ovaltine

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Why can't they be as genuine? Maybe the idea of a character they like of a series they really like was never given much thought because they knew how absurdly impossible it could be and now with the leak floating around, it reignited a passion they have for the series and the character. There's nothing wrong with that and I don't think it's fair to say they're not as genuine.
Yeah. Heck, with Mach Rider, that's actually a very good example. I love Mach Rider and I grew up with it. I'd entertained the idea of Mach Rider in Smash multiple times, but I never had much zest to see it happen until I heard they almost made it to Melee. Then the Grinch leak happened and, while I didn't think it was real, it did make me want to see Mach Rider that much more. It reignited that love that I had since my childhood.

So yeah, no, it can definitely be genuine. I agree with you.
 
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I think this argument comes down to the type of people we see. Personally; I see a lot of rather rude people who subscribe to the Doom Guy/ Erdrick/ Ryu/ Steve leak and aren't open to discussion. These people will tell other people to "get over" their character not getting in. Maybe you guy's are just fortunate enough not to run into these people. But I feel it almost wherever I go in terms of Smash talk.
 
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I don't bring up my second most wanted, Ninten, in many places, because, whenever I do, I get some **** for it.

If he appeared in leaks though, I'd feel more comfortable discussing him in more places lol
Okay since you bring them up I feel comfortable about saying this. I have never played an earthbound game. Why does Ninten look exactly like Ness with a sideways hat? I mean no offense or meanness by this. It just legitimately confuses me.
 
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I think this argument comes down to the type of people we see. Personally; I see a lot of rather rude people who subscribe to the Doom Guy/ Erdrick/ Ryu/ Steve leak and aren't open to discussion. These people will tell other people to "get over" their character not getting in. Maybe you guy's are just fortunate enough not to run into these people. But I feel it almost wherever I go in terms of Smash talk.
yeah those people are jerks.

i.e. It hurts me to see people label the Steve fans as trolls due to some users on 4chan and GameFaqs or even Twitter who might be trolls, despite there being polite, genuine Steve fans as well.

it also hurts to see people bash Steve with hateful wording while seeming to make up facts about why he "couldn't" get in, and then it ends up being their opinion if we argue a bit (???) plus the hatefulness in general, I mean seriously they can describe their dislike for him in a more normal manner instead of using some intense or even extreme wording...
 
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Zack E.

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Okay since you bring them up I feel comfortable about saying this. I have never played an earthbound game. Why does Ninten look exactly like Ness with a sideways hat? I mean no offense or meanness by this. It just legitimately confuses me.
Can I PM you on this?

I have a tendency to derail the discussion when I talk about it lol
 

Ovaltine

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yeah those people are jerks.

i.e. It hurts me to see people label the Steve fans as trolls due to some users on 4chan and GameFaqs or even Twitter who might trolls, despite there being polite, genuine Steve fans as well.
Oh, yeah, those people are a very loud pack, and it unfortunately shapes up an image of Erdrick + Steve fans (and, to a lesser extent, the other two) that is very unpleasant. It isn't very fair to them, considering there are friendly Erdrick and Steve fans out there. I've seen quite a few of them on this very board.

I wish people who were doing that crap would cut it out, because they aren't doing their favorites and their fan bases any favors.
 
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I don't bring up my second most wanted, Ninten, in many places, because, whenever I do, I get some **** for it.

If he appeared in leaks though, I'd feel more comfortable discussing him in more places lol
If only Mother 1 was more popular.

anyone who completely hates the grind should try rom hacks.
 

Foz

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I think this argument comes down to the type of people we see. Personally; I see a lot of rather rude people who subscribe to the Doom Guy/ Erdrick/ Ryu/ Steve leak and aren't open to discussion. These people will tell other people to "get over" their character not getting in. Maybe you guy's are just fortunate enough not to run into these people. But I feel it almost wherever I go in terms of Smash talk.
And I'm not doubting that at all. I've seen it too, but they're people like that in every corner of the Smash community. I lurk everywhere from 4chan, reddit, gamefaqs and primarily here and, hands down, I feel ya dude. A lot of backers of the Grinch leak did the same thing too though.

But the argument doesn't come down too all that when you're accusing fans of DQ not being as genuine because they saw the leak and thought "Oh holy ****, Erdrick?! That'd be awesome! I love dragon quest!" because again, there is nothing wrong with that. It feels like you're kind of generalizing here.

Take me for example; Banjo Kazooie is my favourite N64 game. I think it's miles better that Mario 64 and I still dabble in it from time to time. I never thought I would find myself being so passionate about supporting Banjo in Smash until the Grinch leak came along and witnessing all the evidence of Microsoft and Nintendo being in bed together because I thought there'd be no chance in hell for them. Now, BK gets hard support from me because of these leaks and because of witnessing this evidence so does that make me less genuine of a fan or a supporter because I wasn't 110% on board for Banjo since day 1? If you were to say that to me, I'd tell ya to go **** yourself cause that's an unfair assessment.
 

Zack E.

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I actually like how the Smash fanbase just unanimously decided that PP was a girl. Why did we do it? I dunno but I appreciate it either way.
Well, in the Piranha Plant Palutena's guidance, Palutena said "she'll hear you."

People thought it was referring to PP, but it's actually referring to Viridi.

Piranha Plant is still Sakurai's waifu though
 
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I have made peace with Geno possibly not making it in. But there is no other Square Enix characters I would replace with him.
I respect that. But I would still take Sephiroth if I can't have Geno.

I know it's possible Geno might not make it.

However, I'm fairly confident he will be DLC in wave 1. If he isn't in wave 1, I don't think it's likely that he would make it into wave 2 since, according to Polar, it isn't planned yet. Unless separate DLC characters were planned at the same time as wave 1, I'm not confident that Geno will be DLC if he isn't in wave 1
I have a feeling that if there are more Ballot picks they are going to throw in, than they will all be in the first Season Pass because of it's fighters being chosen during the beginning of the project plan for Ultimate.
 

Ovaltine

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I have a feeling that if there are more Ballot picks they are going to throw in, than they will all be in the first Season Pass because of it's fighters being chosen during the beginning of the project plan for Ultimate.
Eh, not quite. Sakurai possibly would have done that if he'd chosen, but NoJ has a different agenda in mind. If Sakurai gets a chance to pick any other DLC, though, some fan favorites might have a good chance again.
 
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Eh, not quite. Sakurai possibly would have done that if he'd chosen, but NoJ has a different agenda in mind. If Sakurai gets a chance to pick any other DLC, though, some fan favorites might have a good chance again.
There is the slim possibility though that Nintendo could throw in a couple of Ballot picks in the Season Pass by themselves.
 

Ovaltine

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There is the slim possibility though that Nintendo could throw in a couple of Ballot picks in the Season Pass by themselves.
Ehhh, that implies that NoJ knows what we as Smash fans want, and unfortunately, they're really hit or miss with that. They've been doing great with listening to fans for the Switch so far, but Smash just feels like a whole 'nother ball game, you know? It's one Sakurai is more familiar with. Even though he's made some poor choices like Corrin (in some opinions, even though I'm fine with them), he really showed how much he was listening to fans with Ridley, Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, K. Rool, and the Belmonts. If he were in charge of the DLC, I could have easily seen other ballot picks making it, possibly something like Banjo, Geno, Bandana Dee, Rayman, and... probably still Persona of some kind, almost definitely still Joker. Joker feels like such a Sakurai pick that it's hard to ignore, really.
 
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