Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EarlTamm]

I would go for Doomguy over Master Chief. Doon is one of the founders of the FPS genre and has a surprisingly good history with Nintendo.

Also, does anyone want a Geno FPS now after all this Doomguy talk or is it just me?

 

[osby]

You may call it a maymay but the fact is that people are just sick of the whole aesthetic of the FE style human sword users. There's a reason almost no one lists FE style characters or anything close to that in speculation lists. Because people are tired of them. Could Sakurai potentially add in 6 more sword fighters that technically play differently from one another? Maybe. Do people want that? No. You can look at listings of top requested characters for SSBU pre release and now for DLC and see most of the characters are not that. The only one that is in that sort of spectrum is Sora and even then when people list out movesets its hard not to see that it comes off as feeling very similar to several that we already have in the game. The issue is that there are so many non-anime/realistic human-esque sword users out there not only in Nintendo but in the greater video game pantheon that people have been requesting for years. It was frustrating as a fan of the series to see that sort of character be brought in over and over again in Sm4sh when the point of Smash is to celebrate all of gaming and Sakurais stated intention is to bring in characters that offer something new and different to the roster the more you add anime style swordfighters the less that even becomes feasible or even worth it to a lot of people. Why spend development time trying to met out a niche for another swordfighter when there are plenty of characters that don't use sword or have that kind of aesthetic? I think I'd feel differently if the FE fighters we've gotten represent the different weapon styles availiable in FE but at this point they don't and it this point adding more is just frustrating.

Paragraphs are your friend.

 

[Ovaltine]

I would go for Doomguy over Master Chief. Doon is one of the founders of the FPS genre and has a surprisingly good history with Nintendo.

Also, does anyone want a Geno FPS now after all this Doomguy talk or is it just me?

I... I don't even think I can begin to describe how absolutely sick that would be. That or some kind of FPS + RPG + bullet hell type thing? A mishmash of genres, even if not always mixed in the same segments?

Anything of that sort with Geno would be so, so awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

You may call it a maymay but the fact is that people are just sick of the whole aesthetic of the FE style human sword users. There's a reason almost no one lists FE style characters or anything close to that in speculation lists. Because people are tired of them. Could Sakurai potentially add in 6 more sword fighters that technically play differently from one another? Maybe. Do people want that? No. You can look at listings of top requested characters for SSBU pre release and now for DLC and see most of the characters are not that. The only one that is in that sort of spectrum is Sora and even then when people list out movesets its hard not to see that it comes off as feeling very similar to several that we already have in the game. The issue is that there are so many non-anime/realistic human-esque sword users out there not only in Nintendo but in the greater video game pantheon that people have been requesting for years. It was frustrating as a fan of the series to see that sort of character be brought in over and over again in Sm4sh when the point of Smash is to celebrate all of gaming and Sakurais stated intention is to bring in characters that offer something new and different to the roster the more you add anime style swordfighters the less that even becomes feasible or even worth it to a lot of people. Why spend development time trying to met out a niche for another swordfighter when there are plenty of characters that don't use sword or have that kind of aesthetic? I think I'd feel differently if the FE fighters we've gotten represent the different weapon styles availiable in FE but at this point they don't and it this point adding more is just frustrating.

I mean that just seems like an issue people have with the anime aesthetic/FE oversaturation then like an actual "they're all the same thing" complaint which is mainly what I was tackling in my post

Like you can't legitimately look at Corrin, Marth, Shulk, and Cloud and tell me that they're all basically the same character

 

[Ze Diglett]

And the majority of people thought Geno was extremely likely for the base game.

I know this because, when I would comment on YouTube about how much I want Geno, I wouldn't get any slack for it because the majority of the community thought he was really likely.

After the base game was revealed and we moved to DLC speculation, the majority of people now think Geno is unlikely for DLC (I'm still confident about him being DLC, though). Whenever I comment on a vid on YouTube now, it's guaranteed I get **** for it lol.

And this is exactly what I was afraid would happen if Geno didn't get in. See: this post I made back in November:

I'm more worried about if he doesn't get in myself. Sure, if he does get in, we'll get some flak from the usual haters and Waluigi/Paper Mario/Toad fans for "stealing his spot", but if he doesn't get in, Geno fans will likely never be taken seriously again. Day after day, we'll be met with endless jeers of "give it up, grandpa, Geno's never gonna be in Smash" and "Geno doesn't deserve to be in, get over it". Basically, everywhere we go will be GameFAQs for us. We already had it bad after Brawl, if Geno misses the boat again after his perceived chances were at an all-time high, we as a fanbase are gonna be ostracized to hell and back in future Smash cycles and the backlash of even mentioning Geno will be nigh impossible to come back from. That's what I'm afraid of.

Seems I read the tea leaves on that one, huh? Though I really wish I didn't...

 

[Deleted member]

And this is exactly what I was afraid would happen if Geno didn't get in. See: this post I made back in November:

Seems I read the tea leaves on that one, huh? Though I really wish I didn't...

Exactly.

Another reason we need our boy in Smash

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean that just seems like an issue people have with the anime aesthetic/FE oversaturation then like an actual "they're all the same thing" complaint which is mainly what I was tackling in my post

Like you can't legitimately look at Corrin, Marth, Shulk, and Cloud and tell me that they're all basically the same character

This tier list half-jokingly agrees with you:

 

[Ovaltine]

And this is exactly what I was afraid would happen if Geno didn't get in. See: this post I made back in November:

Seems I read the tea leaves on that one, huh? Though I really wish I didn't...

That is just painful premonition there, man. I wish Smash culture wasn't so freaking toxic like that. What's wrong with just wanting a character in because you like them? On that note, Geno's fans shouldn't bash other fanbases for other SE reps, too. I wish we could just get along instead of being pointed and laughed at like the nerdy guy who came last at his school foot race. It's immature and silly to start flinging ad hominem at people just because they like and want a character you don't.

 

[Deleted member]

This tier list agrees with you:

View attachment 191373

That tier list is wrong because as we all know every humanoid character is just another anime Marth-like character so Ken, Falcon, etc should all be Marths

 

[Datboigeno]

Paragraphs are your friend.

Not being passive aggressive could be yours :^)

I mean that just seems like an issue people have with the anime aesthetic/FE oversaturation then like an actual "they're all the same thing" complaint which is mainly what I was tackling in my post

Like you can't legitimately look at Corrin, Marth, Shulk, and Cloud and tell me that they're all basically the same character

I mean its all the same thing. People feel that the anime sword characters are too same-y. I'm saying that's mostly what people are talking about when they bring up being annoyed with anime sword characters. It's not so much the technical aspect of Chrom's playstyle vs. Cloud's or Shulks. It's that they all have similar aesthetics and all use swords so after awhile that gets boring.

 

[Ovaltine]

That tier list is wrong because as we all know every humanoid character is just another anime Marth-like character so Ken, Falcon, etc should all be Marths

What kind of fool do you take me for? He's Marth, he's Marth, I'M MARTH! Are there any other MARTHS I should know about?!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That is just painful premonition there, man. I wish Smash culture wasn't so freaking toxic like that. What's wrong with just wanting a character in because you like them? On that note, Geno's fans shouldn't bash other fanbases for other SE reps, too. I wish we could just get along instead of being pointed and laughed at like the nerdy guy who came last at his school foot race. It's immature and silly to start flinging ad hominem at people just because they like and want a character you don't.

Incidentally, a Steve/Banjo war had broken out at the Banjo thread recently. Then there's daring to express wanting a Digimon in the general...

Is it possible to have a civil convo without at least one person wanting to stir up trouble?

Not being passive aggressive could be yours :^)



I mean its all the same thing. People feel that the anime sword characters are too same-y. I'm saying that's mostly what people are talking about when they bring up being annoyed with anime sword characters. It's not so much the technical aspect of Chrom's playstyle vs. Cloud's or Shulks. It's that they all have similar aesthetics and all use swords so after awhile that gets boring.

It's telling that even Sakurai is getting bored of protags using swords (saying something along the lines of "gee, you think it wouldn't kill them to use an axe every once in a while, huh". He's probably only putting in FE characters out of tradition at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

Not being passive aggressive could be yours :^)



I mean its all the same thing. People feel that the anime sword characters are too same-y. I'm saying that's mostly what people are talking about when they bring up being annoyed with anime sword characters. It's not so much the technical aspect of Chrom's playstyle vs. Cloud's or Shulks. It's that they all have similar aesthetics and all use swords so after awhile that gets boring.

lol what
The only thing that Shulk and Marth, for example, have in common is that they have the same style face. That's, like, literally it. The swords are different, the body type is different, the playstyle is different, the voices are different. The only ones who are similar are the FE characters and even then the only ones that are too similar are Chrom to Marth, and he's an Echo so I don't mind him.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That tier list is wrong because as we all know every humanoid character is just another anime Marth-like character so Ken, Falcon, etc should all be Marths

I hate having to bring this up again, but...

Shulk is a photoshopped Little Mac.

 

[MissingGlitch]

It does get kinda annoying to see Geno constantly being based but we always have to take the high road and not stoop to mean levels.

 

[osby]

It's telling that even Sakurai is getting bored of protags using swords (saying something along the lines of "gee, you think it wouldn't kill them to use an axe every once in a while, huh". He's probably only putting in FE characters out of tradition at this point.

Can you give the source? I don't recall him talking about the weapons heroes use at any point. And he added Chrom because of popularity and ease of implementation, not because of a tradition.

 

[Datboigeno]

lol what
The only thing that Shulk and Marth, for example, have in common is that they have the same style face. That's, like, literally it. The swords are different, the body type is different, the playstyle is different, the voices are different. The only ones who are similar are the FE characters and even then the only ones that are too similar are Chrom to Marth, and he's an Echo so I don't mind him.

m8 they're both anime style lead protagonists that wield swords. At a very base level they are similar. And when you look at the cast you have 9 other characters that fit into that trope not even counting Link who isn't ""anime"" but still uses a sword. That's what people had an issue with in Sm4sh and why people don't want more of those types of characters for DLC. Yeah it's just 9 out of over 70 but all those other characters at least feel very differently from one another and most were not all added in the same iteration of the series. That's the main reason why people got annoyed.

 

[Deleted member]

I hate having to bring this up again, but...

Shulk is a photoshopped Little Mac.

Little Mac is just another generic brawler character.

 

[osby]

Little Mac is just another generic brawler character.

Yep, just like

...we need more of those to counter anime swordsmen.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Can you give the source? I don't recall him talking about the weapons heroes use at any point. And he added Chrom because of popularity and ease of implementation, not because of a tradition.

Here you go:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77427488

Though he might have been joking, so take it as you will.

That said, the stigma against swordsmen does screw over the supporters of those that people genuinely want, like Crono, Isaac, Lloyd, Adol, etc. Looking at them on the surface level is enough for detractors to not even consider giving them a chance.

Little Mac is just another generic brawler character.

Little Mac is "too punchy".

 

[Deleted member]

One of the reasons I would love to get Eight over Erdrick is this tiny and charming partner called Munchie:

Spoiler: DQ8 spoilers

This little pal can be controlled in specific places to access small or tiny places, and after a certain point in the game he can be used in some battles where he can attack with elemental moves or abilities after eating their respective cheese.

He also has another hidden twist regarding the plot, but I really want to let anyone find it out by playing the game or looking it through other options, since it is a good surprise.

Needless to say, he could be applied to Eight’s moveset in a neat and attractive way.

 

[Datboigeno]

Incidentally, a Steve/Banjo war had broken out at the Banjo thread recently. Then there's daring to express wanting a Digimon in the general...

Is it possible to have a civil convo without at least one person wanting to stir up trouble?



It's telling that even Sakurai is getting bored of protags using swords (saying something along the lines of "gee, you think it wouldn't kill them to use an axe every once in a while, huh". He's probably only putting in FE characters out of tradition at this point.

Exactly. When even Sakurai was hesitant to bring in Corrin as DLC and was only pushed to do so by his staff that's really saying something.

It does get kinda annoying to see Geno constantly being based but we always have to take the high road and not stoop to mean levels.

Being totally blunt I do get a little annoyed at the "What Would Geno Do?" statements that get posted anytime anyone gets annoyed or expresses anything other than totally positive support for another fanbase or character. Especially when we regularly have had people drop in this thread to **** on Geno and he's treated in many places as a joke. Like, why are we being held to a different standard?

 

[Deleted member]

m8 they're both anime style lead protagonists that wield swords. At a very base level they are similar. And when you look at the cast you have 9 other characters that fit into that trope not even counting Link who isn't ""anime"" but still uses a sword. That's what people had an issue with in Sm4sh and why people don't want more of those types of characters for DLC. Yeah it's just 9 out of over 70 but all those other characters at least feel very differently from one another and most were not all added in the same iteration of the series. That's the main reason why people got annoyed.

Question, do you think having Mario, Luigi, and Wario is going a bit overboard? I think that having three cartoon plumbers all wearing basically the same outfit and fighting with their fists is pretty boring tbh. They look the same! Peach and Roasalina are just more boring princesses honestly. And don't even get me started on the spacies. I'm tired of all the Star Fox characters. They're all animal-style lead characters who use blasters and reflectors.

You could argue at a base level they're all super similar, right? I mean Fox and Wolf are basically the same thing, Peach and Daisy are incredibly similar (not counting moveset because she's an Echo) and so are Mario and Luigi or Rosa and Zelda to a lesser extent. But you know for a fact that they are almost completely separate, right? Because of the way they move, dress, talk, and fight, right?

If you seriously think that Shulk and Roy are way too similar to each other, or how Robin and Link look pretty much the same both being anime-looking protags who use swords, then that's just an issue you have man.

Like we all got different tastes and I get that you are probably not the biggest fan of anime swordies, but I can't take someone who thinks Corrin and Cloud are too similar seriously, I'm sorry

 

[MissingGlitch]

Incidentally, a Steve/Banjo war had broken out at the Banjo thread recently. Then there's daring to express wanting a Digimon in the general...

Digimon would be pretty cool.

 

[BZL8]

Watch Sakurai as he adds 2B out of passion for the Drakengard/Nier series and not because it was shoved onto him.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Watch Sakurai as he adds 2B out of passion for the Drakengard/Nier series and not because it was shoved onto him.

We do need a character that's not guaranteed to have a Nintendo-related thing, so I'd take it. And Taro Yoko would be confused at the backlash and wonder why they're not making lewds of 2-B any faster.

 

[Datboigeno]

Question, do you think having Mario, Luigi, and Wario is going a bit overboard? I think that having three cartoon plumbers all wearing basically the same outfit and fighting with their fists is pretty boring tbh. They look the same! Peach and Roasalina are just more boring princesses honestly. And don't even get me started on the spacies. I'm tired of all the Star Fox characters. They're all animal-style lead characters who use blasters and reflectors.

You could argue at a base level they're all super similar, right? I mean Fox and Wolf are basically the same thing, Peach and Daisy are incredibly similar (not counting moveset because she's an Echo) and so are Mario and Luigi or Rosa and Zelda to a lesser extent. But you know for a fact that they are almost completely separate, right? Because of the way they move, dress, talk, and fight, right?

If you seriously think that Shulk and Cloud are way too similar to each other, or how Robin and Link look pretty much the same both being anime-looking protags who use swords, then that's just an issue you have man.

Like we all got different tastes and I get that you are probably not the biggest fan of anime swordies, but I can't take someone who thinks Corrin and Cloud are too similar seriously, I'm sorry

lmao get pissy and dismissive at my opinions all you want but I'm just explaining to you why a lot of people are saying they're sick of that archetype in Smash. It's not a "meme" it's a genuine criticism of the types of characters that were added in Sm4sh. I think you're being intentionally glib in bringing up all these other characters but if you are being serious: Context matters. This is a Nintendo game. It's ****ing Mario and Luigi. Of course they would be in the game. Even then Luigi was initially a clone but had alterations to his moveset over time to be very different from Mario. Wario doesn't play anything like the other two and even then his aesthetic is intentionally different and references the Warioware games more than anything.

The other pairs you're listing (Daisy and Peach, Fox and Wolf) are very similar to one another. But really you're looking at 2 plumbers that are aesthetically similar, 2 princesses that are aesthetically similar (you can even add Zelda in there if you want to be super pedantic), and 3 space animals that are aesthetically similar. Compared to 9 sword wielding anime-esque/realistic human protagonists that are aesthetically similar or fall into the same niche. Just solely in terms of that trope/aestetic the game is pretty saturated at this point. That is what people are annoyed by.

 

[BZL8]

We do need a character that's not guaranteed to have a Nintendo-related thing, so I'd take it. And Taro Yoko would be confused at the backlash and wonder why they're not making lewds of 2-B any faster.

^ Hence why I believe her inclusion is the perfect concoction for the largest internet fireworks show caused by a Japanese third-party reveal. It simultaneously hits the marks for both creating extreme hype and extreme salt at the same time.

...

Anyway, regarding the debate about sword-wielders, I would prefer a greater diversity in the way characters utilize the blade in their kits. If you look at several sword users from other games, the way some of those characters utilize those weapons in combat and their fighting styles can greatly differ game-to-game.

In Nier: Automata, while a katana is generally 2B's weapon of choice, there is also the strong presence of Pod 042, a support unit that accompanies 2B that can help her glide, spam dakka, or fire a death beam at the enemy (essentially a reliable long ranged support unit). That alone would create a character who would play significantly different from most swordwielders in this game.

I am okay with sword-wielding newcomers, let alone the realistic human/anime-type. But I want those newcomers to bring different playstyles and fighting methods that strongly differ from the usual lot (Marth, Roy, Cloud, etc.).

 

[Deleted member]

lmao get pissy and dismissive at my opinions all you want but I'm just explaining to you why a lot of people are saying they're sick of that archetype in Smash. It's not a "meme" it's a genuine criticism of the types of characters that were added in Sm4sh. I think you're being intentionally glib in bringing up all these other characters but if you are being serious: Context matters. This is a Nintendo game. It's ****ing Mario and Luigi. Of course they would be in the game. Even then Luigi was initially a clone but had alterations to his moveset over time to be very different from Mario. Wario doesn't play anything like the other two and even then his aesthetic is intentionally different and references the Warioware games more than anything.

The other pairs you're listing (Daisy and Peach, Fox and Wolf) are very similar to one another. But looking at it you're looking at 2 plumbers that are aesthetically similar, 2 princesses that are aesthetically similar (you can even add Zelda in there if you want to be super pedantic), and 3 space animals that are aesthetically similar. Compared to 9 sword wielding anime-esque/realistic human protagonists that are aesthetically similar or fall into the same niche. Just solely in terms of that trope/aestetic the game is pretty saturated at this point. That is what people are annoyed by.

I, uh, don't see which part of my argument is "pissy and defensive"?
And no, I don't see "Corrin and Cloud are too similar to each other" as a legitimate criticism. Mostly because it's stupid.
Tell me one thing they have in common besides "ew anime" and "human". Just one thing.

Fighting style? Nope. Similar swords? Nope. Aesthetics? Considering the huge differences between style of clothing, hair, face, body type, nope. Abilities? Well one can turn into a ****ing dragon so nope.

Or how about Palutena and Shulk? Or Marth and Robin? Or Lucina and Shulk?

This is why I'm saying that imo it's not a legitimate criticism. Maybe it does work with some, like Lucina and Chrom- they both have the same sword and SOMEWHAT similar fighting styles. But they're echo fighters who took some random intern 3 minutes to make.

That's why I said I don't take people who think that "generic anime swordsman" is a legit thing seriously. Because I don't believe it's a legit complaint at all. It's a meme. One that should be died off long ago.

Honestly if the entire basis of the complaint is "sword human ew" then "Mega Man is just another Samus" or "Banjo is just Duck Hunt" or "Geno is too similar to Mega Man" would also be a just-as-legit complaint.

 

[Deleted member]

>Isaac is an anime human from a RPG who can use a sword.

Sorry contreras, but we already have too many anime sword-users. He can’t be in.
/s just in case

 

[Deleted member]

>Isaac is an anime human from a RPG who can use a sword.

Sorry contreras, but we already have too many anime sword-users. He can’t be in.
/s just in case

2B is another boring shill anime swordsman so she can't be in either.

 

[BZL8]

2B is another boring shill anime swordsman so she can't be in either.

Doesn't mean I can't make jokes about her joining the game.

EDIT: Did the joke fly over my head?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

^ Hence why I believe her inclusion is the perfect concoction for the largest internet fireworks show caused by a Japanese third-party reveal. It simultaneously hits the marks for both creating extreme hype and extreme salt at the same time.

...

Anyway, regarding the debate about sword-wielders, I would prefer a greater diversity in the way characters utilize the blade in their kits. If you look at several sword users from other games, the way some of those characters utilize those weapons in combat and their fighting styles can greatly differ game-to-game.

In Nier: Automata, while a katana is generally 2B's weapon of choice, there is also the strong presence of Pod 042, a support unit that accompanies 2B that can help her glide, spam dakka, or fire a death beam at the enemy (essentially a reliable long ranged support unit). That alone would create a character who would play significantly different from most swordwielders in this game.

I am okay with sword-wielding newcomers, let alone the realistic human/anime-type. But I want those newcomers to bring different playstyles and fighting methods that strongly differ from the usual lot (Marth, Roy, Cloud, etc.).

In regards to Adol, I was thinking maybe they could find a way to incorporate his "ram the enemy and hope for the best" mechanic from the first few Ys games, since Sakurai likes to reference a character's origins.

 

[MissingGlitch]

*steals your SE DLC spot* Nothing personal.

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't mean I can't make jokes about her joining the game.

2B is actually hella sick and even though I've never played Nier she's one of my most wanted SE reps

 

[Deleted member]

We are free to want any character we like, as long as we are open to the wishes of other people without forcing our views to them.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I... I don't even think I can begin to describe how absolutely sick that would be. That or some kind of FPS + RPG + bullet hell type thing? A mishmash of genres, even if not always mixed in the same segments?

Anything of that sort with Geno would be so, so awesome.

Geno would fit in Touhou

 

[Deleted member]

*steals your SE DLC spot* Nothing personal.

omae wa mo

Geno would fit in Touhou

this image is blessed

 

[MissingGlitch]

I've been really liking bonus DLC character theories. Because Nintendo officially confirmed that Joker did steal someone's invite. If we go by assuming they would just resend the person another invite. That means the 5 fighter pass fighters and an extra fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

I've been really liking bonus DLC character theories. Because Nintendo officially confirmed that Joker did steal someone's invite. If we go by assuming they would just resend the person another invite. That means the 5 fighter pass fighters and an extra fighter.

Joker stole Waluigi and Isaac's invites, and a threw one of them into some random bushes to get the cops off his tail. Little did he know that there was a certain P L A N T in those bushes...