Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

This information was wrong. Joker and Brave currently have the same aerial lag but that will probably change.

Joker:

N- 6
F- 12
B-8
U-8
D- 10

Joker is also as fast as Mewtwo and slightly lighter than Marth/Lucina. Comparing aerial lag data, Joker is very similar to Metaknight, Mewtwo, Roy/Chrom, and Inkling. All are pretty fast rushdown characters so the aerial lag data makes sense. These same stats wouldn't make sense on Brave given his movement similarities to Mario, Wario, Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, etc.

https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ead-training-mode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

I honestly did not expect Joker to be this light lol.

Huh. All this talk of “Brave” being more similar to Duck Hunt and Wario and less like all other sword users is kind of making me hopeful he may be a certain puppet.

Same. I'm not convinced it's him, but it could, and he does fit the stats.

We should find out soon though :D

 

[Teeb147]

I'm not a speedrunner, but I think it's cool how mario rpg is decently popular to speedrun. Entertaining too.

Also, what's this about joker's data?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not a speedrunner, but I think it's cool how mario rpg is decently popular to speedrun. Entertaining too.

Also, what's this about joker's data?

Well it's not Joker's data we are talking a lot about, I'm just surprised he's really light and fast.

It's mainly stat data for a character with a codename of "brave" who, based on stats, has movement similarities to characters like Mario, Wario, Duck-hunt, and Pacman

 

[Tetrin]

Movement similarities like that I think suggest kid Erdrick or some other character we haven't thought of yet. Sora seems way too big now.

 

[Deleted member]

The more we go on, the more I doubt that Eddy is brave, kid or adult.

I still think it's either Geno or Sans

 

[Teeb147]

Well it's not Joker's data we are talking a lot about, I'm just surprised he's really light and fast.

It's mainly stat data for a character with a codename of "brave" who, based on stats, has movement similarities to characters like Mario, Wario, Duck-hunt, and Pacman

Thanks. And where is this information coming from? If it's just leaks again then I dont think it's worth much stock.

 

[Tetrin]

Thanks. And where is this information coming from? If it's just leaks again then I dont think it's worth much stock.

Datamines. Not sure if you'd consider them leaks, but whatever.

I also wonder what the codename is for the next DLC character in Japan. Not like a translation of Brave to Japanese, but an actual name in the Japanese release. It might have an impact on our speculation.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In before it's actually Ms. Pac-Man.

Well, maybe not THAT random, but you never know. I just hope we learn of any Direct news next week.

 

[Teeb147]

Datamines. Not sure if you'd consider them leaks, but whatever.

I also wonder what the codename is for the next DLC character in Japan. Not like a translation of Brave to Japanese, but an actual name in the Japanese release. It might have an impact on our speculation.

Depends what was datamined. We had so many fake leaks in the time before release, people have to be careful what they believe. If the data is in the game then I want to look more into it

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah it's data, not some random joe claiming "My grandma's uncle's brother's cousin's son's daughter works at Nintendo and told me the full roster".

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks. And where is this information coming from? If it's just leaks again then I dont think it's worth much stock.

Here is the landing lag for all characters: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ead-training-mode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/

Here are some things we know about brave, like his/her/its speed, weight, and ariel lag is currently the same as Joker's but likely to be changed, considering how the character plays (the following link comes from a dataminer called Mizumi): https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1080971781790416896

And yeah, like Tetrin said, the info comes from datamines. One of the codenames for a character was "brave" and we know that, from dataminers, the character slides quite a bit, is floaty, is a smidge shorter than Mario, has a weight of 101 with Mario having a weight of 98, has a speed of 1.74, does not have a wall jump, does not have a rapid jab, and has similar movements to characters like Mario, Wario, Duck-hunt, and Pacman, as pointed out by Fatmanonice

Here is the link to the brave codename btw: https://twitter.com/jam1garner/status/1080961830825193473

 

[Teeb147]

Here is the landing lag for all characters: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ead-training-mode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/

Here are some things we know about brave, like his/her/its speed, weight, and ariel lag is currently the same as Joker's but likely to be changed, considering how the character plays (the following link comes from a dataminer called Mizumi): https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1080971781790416896

And yeah, like Tetrin said, the info comes from datamines. One of the codenames for a character was "brave" and we know that, from dataminers, the character slides quite a bit, is floaty, is a smidge shorter than Mario, has a weight of 101 with Mario having a weight of 98, has a speed of 1.74, does not have a wall jump, does not have a rapid jab, and has similar movements to characters like Mario, Wario, Duck-hunt, and Pacman, as pointed out by Fatmanonice

Here is the link to the brave codename btw: https://twitter.com/jam1garner/status/1080961830825193473

Good info. It's quite odd that they would've found that a while ago but it hadn't been talked about. I find that really odd.
If it's true, then 'jack' is joker? I didnt see anyone talk about that or the data in the joker forum :O

Maybe brave is Agnes

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Thing is, leakers' sources can get tracked down and sued if they expose any actual concrete compromising info, so it's understandable to keep it under wraps until the announcement has happened.

These stats and the codename, on the other hand, make it easier to share, since it's difficult to accurately pin down the identity of the character in question.

 

[Deleted member]

Good info. It's quite odd that they would've found that a while ago but it hadn't been talked about. I find that really odd.
If it's true, then 'jack' is joker? I didnt see anyone talk about that or the data in the joker forum :O

Maybe brave is Agnes

I think jack is referring to Joker. I'm not sure how it is connected to him, but it does connect to him nonetheless (if that makes sense lol). Jack is Atlus's mascot, or it has something to do with a part of Persona 5.

But yeah, no one guessed that jack was referring to Joker. It didn't seem like it.

Maybe lol. I kind of doubt it, considering the character is short and plays like a zoner who slides quite a bit.

I think we'll find out soon enough though. Brave is the second codename in the data, meaning that it will be the second character revealed

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think we'll find out soon enough though. Brave is the second codename in the data, meaning that it will be the second character revealed

In theory, yes.

After doing some quick research, last year the January Direct was at exactly the 18th, so we should probably be getting one around a similar timeframe, assuming it has the next Ultimate reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

In theory, yes.

After doing some quick research, last year the January Direct was at exactly the 18th, so we should probably be getting one around a similar timeframe, assuming it has the next Ultimate reveal.

I hope. I could see it being around the 28th or just before the start of February, to feel like the wait has been long enough since the VGAs for an Ultimate reveal

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Have we been comparing Brave's stats to some of the other names being tossed around like Agnes or Yuri? I feel that could be a good idea.

 

[Deleted member]

Have we been comparing Brave's stats to some of the other names being tossed around like Agnes or Yuri? I feel that could be a good idea.

I doubt it's either of them.

I doubt Agnes because brave is short, plays like a zoner, and slides quite a bit, and I heavily doubt it is Yuri considering brave doesn't play like swordsman, is floaty, slides quite a bit, and is short

 

[Teeb147]

I doubt it's either of them.

I doubt Agnes because brave is short, plays like a zoner, and slides quite a bit, and I heavily doubt it is Yuri considering brave doesn't play like swordsman, is floaty, slides quite a bit, and is short

Might not be a zoner.

 

[Deleted member]

Might not be a zoner.

Brave's stats are similar to stats of other zoners though, such as Pacman and Mii Gunner, and share more similarities with them than swordsman

 

[Teeb147]

Brave's stats are similar to stats of other zoners though, such as Pacman and Mii Gunner, and share more similarities with them than swordsman

There's all kinds of characters with different types of speeds, so i dont think that matters too much.. and from what I saw in the data, brave has the same landing frame data as joker, so it might not be a zoner. So what were you looking at that makes it out to be a zoner?

 

[Deleted member]

There's all kinds of characters with different types of speeds, so i dont think that matters too much.. and from what I saw in the data, brave has the same landing frame data as joker, so it might not be a zoner. So what were you looking at that makes it out to be a zoner?

Good point. They were some posts from Fatmanonice , let me ask him

 

[Teeb147]

Good point. They were some posts from Fatmanonice , let me ask him

I found this reddit post which is really good for the other stats:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/acpifr/analyzing_leaked_dlc_character_parameters/


I don't think it rules out any type of character, looking at the stats, but I do think it's possible for geno to fit those as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I found this reddit post which is really good for the other stats:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/acpifr/analyzing_leaked_dlc_character_parameters/


I don't think it rules out any type of character, looking at the stats, but I do think it's possible for geno to fit those as well.

Huh, thanks for the link.

I think Geno fits it too. If it is him....he will be the second character revealed.

I'm getting too excited lol

 

[Fatmanonice]

There's all kinds of characters with different types of speeds, so i dont think that matters too much.. and from what I saw in the data, brave has the same landing frame data as joker, so it might not be a zoner. So what were you looking at that makes it out to be a zoner?

The aerial lag is likely copy and pasted from Joker since it's exactly the same. Brave's other stats are very different. He's about as fast as Mario on the ground and in the air, falls as fast as Roy/Chrom, jumps about the same as Villager, and has bad traction according to the stats.

 

[Teeb147]

The aerial lag is likely copy and pasted from Joker since it's exactly the same. Brave's other stats are very different. He's about as fast as Mario on the ground and in the air, falls as fast as Roy/Chrom, jumps about the same as Villager, and has bad traction according to the stats.

Yeah it's most likely a copy. There may be a reason to copy that one, dunno. Where did you get traction and fastfall from?
Anyway, from what I saw it doesnt look like it's more a zoner necessarily. Lots of sword charaters around those types of stats too, so it can still make sense how people have thought about it. The name could make sense for DQ, but that might just be the easiest connection. Interesting to speculate about tho

 

[MattX20]

I found this reddit post which is really good for the other stats:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/acpifr/analyzing_leaked_dlc_character_parameters/


I don't think it rules out any type of character, looking at the stats, but I do think it's possible for geno to fit those as well.

The fact the guy in that thread is calling "brave" a heavyweight is pretty silly when Mario is only 3 points off.

 

[Teeb147]

The fact the guy in that thread is calling "brave" a heavyweight is pretty silly when Mario is only 3 points off.

He's just using the normal terms. Anything anything above 100 is considered heavyweight:

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/Weight

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah it's most likely a copy. There may be a reason to copy that one, dunno. Where did you get traction and fastfall from?
Anyway, from what I saw it doesnt look like it's more a zoner necessarily. Lots of sword charaters around those types of stats too, so it can still make sense how people have thought about it. The name could make sense for DQ, but that might just be the easiest connection. Interesting to speculate about tho

Here:

https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

And here:

https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1080977290266324993

And here:

https://twitter.com/jam1garner/status/1080972311015145477

 

[coolcat12347]

I'm happy the thread's picking up positivity again? Because there are honestly some good points about brave not being eddy.

 

[Deleted member]

On my way to Nimbus Land!

One of my favorite parts of the game

 

[Fatmanonice]

Running vs Air Speed vs Weight Units of Swordsmen:

Link: 1.534 - 0.924 - 104
Young Link: 1.749 - 0.966 - 88
Marth/Lucina: 1.964 - 1.071- 90
Roy/Chrom: 2.145 - 1.302 - 95
Metaknight: 2.09 - 1.04 - 80
Pit/Dark Pit: 1.828 - 0.935 - 96
Ike: 1.507 - 1.134 - 107
Toon Link: 1.906 - 1.05 - 91
Mii Swordfighter: 1.58 -1.17 - 100
Robin: 1.265 - 1.05 - 95
Shulk: 1.672 - 1.133 - 97
Cloud: 2.167 - 1.155 - 100
Corrin: 1.595 - 1.019- 98

Brave: 1.74 - 1.14 - 101

Going off all of this, the sword fighter that Brave has the most similarities with is Mii Swordfighter, which most people consider the outlier of the sword fighters. Going back to earlier, it's also important to repeat that Brave is about the size of Ness and Toon Link but isn't like them weight or speed wise.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

No because Geno isn't the star of the Mario franchise. Slime isn't the star of Dragon Quest, just like Chocobo isn't the star of Final Fantasy. Mario was already well established in Smash while Dragon Quest would be brand new. There's also this to consider:

Brave is slightly shorter than Mario. Slimes are notably small, sometimes to the point you could hold one in your hands. It would probably be one of the shortest characters in the game especially since it doesn't have legs or feet.

So is Brave the exact same size as Ness, Villager, Lucas, or Wario? I might be BS-ing myself, but this honestly just seems like it's Geno's height. Are there any stats that show he's about a bit smaller than Mario? Because I always thought he was an inch shorter than Mario, due to Geno's body being a toy.

Huh. All this talk of “Brave” being more similar to Duck Hunt and Wario and less like all other sword users is kind of making me hopeful he may be a certain puppet.

I guess this is his recovery: ♡♪!? comes out of the Geno doll and carries the doll. For example:

Spoiler

Good info. It's quite odd that they would've found that a while ago but it hadn't been talked about. I find that really odd.
If it's true, then 'jack' is joker? I didnt see anyone talk about that or the data in the joker forum :O

Maybe brave is Agnes

That's because nobody could get the code, and nobody still knows if it means the Jack of All Trades or Jack Frost. Pretty sure they'd give Agnès a better look, and I think her Smash design would be about as tall as the Pokémon Trainer. Making her chibi-sized isn't something Sakurai would want to do, and chibis look too... how should I say this? Uh, her chibi looks a little too cartoonish for Smash. I think they'd go with a design like her existing artwork or render to fit the theme of Smash designs. If it is Agnès, putting "Brave" as her codename would give it away.

 

[Luigi The President]

So is Brave the exact same size as Ness, Villager, Lucas, or Wario? I might be BS-ing myself, but this honestly just seems like it's Geno's height. Are there any stats that show he's about a bit smaller than Mario? Because I always thought he was an inch shorter than Mario, due to Geno's body being a toy.

I guess this is his recovery: ♡♪!? comes out of the Geno doll and carries the doll. For example:

Spoiler

That's because nobody could get the code, and nobody still knows if it means the Jack of All Trades or Jack Frost. Pretty sure they'd give Agnès a better look, and I think her Smash design would be about as tall as the Pokémon Trainer. Making her chibi-sized isn't something Sakurai would want to do, and chibis look too... how should I say this? Uh, her chibi looks a little too cartoonish for Smash. I think they'd go with a design like her existing artwork or render to fit the theme of Smash designs. If it is Agnès, putting "Brave" as her codename would give it away.

looks at how virtually no one has seriously discussed Agnes as Brave

Yep sure was given away

 

[Deleted member]

So is Brave the exact same size as Ness, Villager, Lucas, or Wario? I might be BS-ing myself, but this honestly just seems like it's Geno's height. Are there any stats that show he's about a bit smaller than Mario? Because I always thought he was an inch shorter than Mario, due to Geno's body being a toy.

I guess this is his recovery: ♡♪!? comes out of the Geno doll and carries the doll. For example:

Spoiler

That's because nobody could get the code, and nobody still knows if it means the Jack of All Trades or Jack Frost. Pretty sure they'd give Agnès a better look, and I think her Smash design would be about as tall as the Pokémon Trainer. Making her chibi-sized isn't something Sakurai would want to do, and chibis look too... how should I say this? Uh, her chibi looks a little too cartoonish for Smash. I think they'd go with a design like her existing artwork or render to fit the theme of Smash designs. If it is Agnès, putting "Brave" as her codename would give it away.

Yeah, brave is a smidge shorter than Mario. Geno fits that

 

[Xigger]

Does anyone know what the rest of the fighter names look like? If it's only the DLC fighters with non-obvious names, then it seems like it really is done on purpose. I don't think it's a red herring, but I could understand keeping things secret, especially if they're releasing this data in updates, and have leaked fighters before

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

looks at how virtually no one has seriously discussed Agnes as Brave

Yep sure was given away

I actually did see people talk about a Bravely Default character in videos involving the "Brave" codename, mostly in YouTube comment sections. And I was also one of the few that believed it could be a Bravely Default character or a DQ protagonist. Now that their moveset's stats got out, I'm doubting that it's a DQ and BD character now. I don't even think Brave is Geno, but the stats and height is quite interesting. I always thought Geno would be an inch or a bit smaller than Mario, so about the same size as Lucas or Wario (earlier I didn't realize Young Link was taller than Mario, so scratch him).

 

[Deleted member]

So, this "Brave" character might really be Geno?

I mean, I don't think Brave IS Geno, I think it's someone else. But if it is really him, then....oh boy. He's going to kill the "spirits deconfirm" argument of it really is him.

 

[Deleted member]

So, this "Brave" character might really be Geno?

I mean, I don't think Brave IS Geno, I think it's someone else. But if it is really him, then....oh boy. He's going to kill the "spirits deconfirm" argument of it really is him.

If he gets in, third time's the charm on "tHis FAn favOrIte cHaRactEr wIlL nEVeR hAppEN." Happened with Ridley, happened with K Rool, and it will (hopefully) happen with Geno.

And yes, he will kill the spirits deconfirm argument.

He would do it too even if he is a DLC character other than brave :D

 

[Xigger]

If it wasn't for Brave's short height, then I would have been certain the slide movement was from the Tales series.

Brave Slide
Yuri Slide

But no. A Mario character is much more appropriate.