Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Firox]

With regards to the discussion of DQ's popularity in Japan, I found some interesting sources here:

https://dragon-quest.org/wiki/Worldwide_Dragon_Quest_Sales

As of 2011, Japan accounted for 91.8% of their 57 million units sold worldwide. Gotta say, that many units is dang impressive, but the overall influence of the franchise is HEAVILY specific to Japan.

Then we have this data:

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/250223/metroid-a-sales-history/

Looks like the Metroid Prime Trilogy accounts for a combined 7.15 million units sold as of 2012, which is 46.4% of the franchise's total sales across all of its games. It makes sense that the Prime series is far and away the best of the franchise, but I do find it sad those games flew so low under the radar. Incredibly underrated. Though Metroid Prime 4 should hopefully prove a worthy continuation of the series and breath some new life into the franchise. I personally feel that the Metroid and Starfox franchises are some of Nintendo's most slept on ones. I think that if they would put some legit attention to user feedback and drop the annoying control gimmicks, then both series' could become serious contenders.

 

[Ze Diglett]

It REALLY bothers me when people act like Metroid is some sort of non-entity over in Japan to the degree of Dragon Quest in the West. Yeah, the series may not exactly be popular over there, but I reckon it's at least widely known. (If nothing else, pure Smash exposure basically makes the series globally known by default.) The two are hardly comparable IMO.

 

[osby]

It REALLY bothers me when people act like Metroid is some sort of non-entity over in Japan to the degree of Dragon Quest in the West. Yeah, the series may not exactly be popular over there, but I reckon it's at least widely known. (If nothing else, pure Smash exposure basically makes the series globally known by default.) The two are hardly comparable IMO.

No offense, but this is like arguing Earthbound is globally known purely because of Smash.

And unless you can prove it, I don't see why Metroid should be more well-known than Dragon Quest in general. From what I've seen, it's mostly Western bias. People already pointed out DQ sells millions in West.

 

[StormC]

It REALLY bothers me when people act like Metroid is some sort of non-entity over in Japan to the degree of Dragon Quest in the West. Yeah, the series may not exactly be popular over there, but I reckon it's at least widely known. (If nothing else, pure Smash exposure basically makes the series globally known by default.) The two are hardly comparable IMO.

Outside of this Famicom listing (which is sketchy because NES-era numbers are generally unreliable), the numbers speak for themselves I think:

Only one Metroid game ever broke 100k in Japan. Comparatively, both of the N64 Banjo games - on a console that bombed in Japan - have individually outsold all of these titles.

Source.

While Smash has probably raised the series' profile decently, it's very much not high profile by Japan's standards.

 

[Ovaltine]

Only one Metroid game ever broke 100k in Japan. Comparatively, both of the N64 Banjo games - on a console that bombed in Japan - have individually outsold all of these titles.

What the HECK, I did NOT know that. Sorry, but I've gotta scream jovially with my bias here. Go bear and bird!

 

[Ze Diglett]

No offense, but this is like arguing Earthbound is globally known purely because of Smash.

I mean... it kind of is to an extent, if you think about it. And acting like Metroid is even remotely similar to Earthbound in terms of stature is just plain silly, and that's coming from someone who loves Earthbound leaps and bounds more than Metroid. C'mon, man.

And all I can say to your latter comment is, there is a big, big difference between only being widely recognized in one nation and being widely recognized everywhere but one nation. The Earth's a big place, way bigger than Japan, at least.

 

[StormC]

What the HECK, I did NOT know that. Sorry, but I've gotta scream jovially with my bias here. Go bear and bird!

The original Banjo-Kazooie is something of a cult classic in Japan. People who chimed in that it was an unknown to Japanese gamers while propping up Joker/Persona 5 as a "Japan pick" probably don't know both sold in the range of 400-450k. Tooie sold around 190k, quite the dropoff but since the N64 was at the end of its lifespan that's a bit more understandable (and the worldwide numbers reflect a similar dropoff). The original DKC trilogy is absolutely iconic in Japan and I imagine enough of that good will transferred over into Rare's next cartoony platformer.

 

[AugustusB]

I think it is a good idea to go into the RTC and speak our mind. I have seen SSGuy Ovaltine TheCJBrine and others speak from here and it is great. Now I know we don't want to see the lol he not because *fart* but from what I have seen this far...there are some positives coming through and who knows...MAYBE we can bring some people over here who want to know more?

Make your voice heard gang! Let's build this thread back up.

 

[T2by4]

Something that cross my mind earlier... Isn't Kirby also a "star warrior"? If Geno got into Smash, him and Kirbs can be Star Warrior buddies!

 

[Ovaltine]

I think it is a good idea to go into the RTC and speak our mind. I have seen SSGuy Ovaltine and others speak from here and it is great. Now I know we don't want to see the lol he not because *fart* but from what I have seen this far...there are some positives coming through and who knows...MAYBE we can bring some people over here who want to know more?

Make your voice heard gang! Let's build this thread back up.

There will always be naysayers, but they aren't the ones we have to focus on. Giving some logic and a bit of good word can only go so far, but if it touches at least one heart, it's already worthwhile to me. I know a lot of confusion about Geno is uncertainty as to WHY he's so popular, so I at least try to explain my piece on the matter, especially since I used to hate Geno myself rofl.

Something that cross my mind earlier... Isn't Kirby also a "star warrior"? If Geno got into Smash, him and Kirbs can be Star Warrior buddies!

Geno would be absolutely enamored by Kirby, let's be real. He'd just take him by his little cheeks and squish him with utter enthrallment, just like, "S— Soft..."

 

[Nicnac]

especially since I used to hate Geno myself rofl.

https://i.imgflip.com/2uz425.png
What changed your mind?

 

[Ovaltine]

https://i.imgflip.com/2uz425.png
What changed your mind?

Yeah, it's a pretty funny story. I'd played SMRPG in my teens, and I only learned about Geno's demand for Smash a bit later on down the line. My memory on the game wasn't so fresh, and my opinion of him had been colored by how fanon tends to portray him (stoic badass with zero personality potential, a dickwad to Mallow, etc). I absolutely loathed him and thought that he was a terrible choice for Smash aside from move set potential.

Then, one day, I'd stumbled upon his old render and, as an artist, it kinda... hit me how well-done his design was. The shapes and what they mean, the color palette, the simplicity while still being very distinct... and it made me look a bit deeper into him. I realized that he was portrayed VERY differently from my initial vision in SMRPG, portrayed as an absolute sweetheart (especially to kids like Gaz, so probably to Mallow, too) with a clever and even sassy streak. Also, he turns into a freaking cannon and literally tells Bowyer to 'chill out' like some 90's skateboarding kid. I started thinking of how his lore could be expanded upon in the current day from there, and, well... the rest is history!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Something I've been thinking about is that interview that came out after K. Rool was put in the game, particularly this section:

"To shed further light, per Hyle, per his sources (Mr. Throat or otherwise), K. Rool's hiatus boiled down to "internal apathy and factional disagreements." I have since been able to independently confirm through two sources that one of the parties that wanted to bring back K. Rool sooner was none other than Retro Studios. They were interested in putting K. Rool in the Tropical Freeze Switch port in some capacity, but were denied with no reasoning given. This reportedly was because after the ballot Sakurai had personally called dibs on reviving the character himself."

This is the power Sakurai has to get characters into Smash. He literally told the DK team that they couldn't use their own main villain. He can get anyone he wants into this game outside of probably Disney owned characters. And even that I wouldn't give a hard no to the possibility of. That's how much pull he has and how respected he is. This is a man on record several times of wanting Geno to be playable in the game.

An interesting thing to remember is Geno was suspiciously absent from the Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga remake that came out recently. This is especially weird considering Geno has much more of a presence with Nintendo now than he did when M&L:SS originally came out. He's been used as a mii costume (where they even used SMRPG music in his reveal), spirit, and online icon choice during the same time period as this remake. Not to mention Nintendo's Team Geno/Team Mallow post from last year as well as him being discussed internally at NoA in recent times. And there was even the quiz question about him on the Nintendo sponsored HQ quiz.

I'm not claiming this means he's planned for sure, but it sure as hell is a bunch of weird interesting coincidences.

I mean, Geno's cameo is a barely noticeable element in the original Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga. I suspect that they didn't want to pay Square Enix anything for such an insignificant inclusion when the Mario and Luigi remakes already seem like incredibly low budget and standard releases for Nintendo on their dying console. The lack of the Geno cameo in Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga never struck me as strange for exactly that reason. And Geno really hasn't changed at all in presence since Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga. Some scraps for Smash are nice, but they make him a marginally more known character overall.

This is considerably more removed from King K. Rool in Tropical Freeze where the developers downright intended to put include King K. Rool as new content. We've got no such indication from Alpha Dream that they intended to make Geno a bigger presence in their remake and there's no reason to deny his cameo in the remake if you were Sakurai anyway. Like I said, that cameo is one of the most insignificant little things in the original game and doesn't mean much at all. And again, Sakurai can get who he wants as long as the person responsible for the character says yes. So far he has generally been successful, but it's always possible for him to be told no.

And Alphadream (a company at least partially founded by SMRPG Devs) have had a mysterious project in the works for years (And in recent years they've been doing remakes).

I'm not saying Geno confirmed, but there's a hell of a lot of coincidences with him and it'd be weird if they added up to nothing.

I feel like Alphadream is probably just struggling with Switch hardware on whatever they're working on like basically all 3DS primary developers have now that they've moved to Switch. We see this with Game Freak and we see this with the Fire Emblem team at Intelligent Systems. Next Level Games clearly needed a lot of time to get Luigi's Mansion 3 right too. I wouldn't put too much faith in them to be the savior of Super Mario RPG based upon their track record of running Mario and Luigi further into the ground and Miyamoto's vice grip on the Mario lore and trying to force the Mario RPGs to conform more and more to his personal ideas about what Mario should be.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I mean, Geno's cameo is a barely noticeable element in the original Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga. I suspect that they didn't want to pay Square Enix anything for such an insignificant inclusion when the Mario and Luigi remakes already seem like incredibly low budget and standard releases for Nintendo on their dying console. The lack of the Geno cameo in Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga never struck me as strange for exactly that reason. And Geno really hasn't changed at all in presence since Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga. Some scraps for Smash are nice, but they make him a marginally more known character overall.

This is considerably more removed from King K. Rool in Tropical Freeze where the developers downright intended to put include King K. Rool as new content. We've got no such indication from Alpha Dream that they intended to make Geno a bigger presence in their remake and there's no reason to deny his cameo in the remake if you were Sakurai anyway. Like I said, that cameo is one of the most insignificant little things in the original game and doesn't mean much at all. And again, Sakurai can get who he wants as long as the person responsible for the character says yes. So far he has generally been successful, but it's always possible for him to be told no.

If it's such a minor appearance then why did they get permission and pay Square back in 2003 when they were on much worse terms? Geno's popularity is much higher now than it was back then to the point that Nintendo has taken notice. You're allowed to let this thread have some positive vibes floating around without needing to respond with the "it probably means nothing" take on things. I said myself that it's merely interesting to think about.

I am less and less motivated to post in this thread because I know that <content redacted> is going to make sure to remind me that Geno probably isn't going to get in. It's fun for me to have these moments of hope for a character I've wanted since 2006 and I want to enjoy them while they last. We only get to have time periods like these every 5 years or so.

 

[ZelDan]

I never hated Geno, but I didn't really gain any interest in him being in Smash until Ultimate. I used to think "I love SMRPG and all, but Geno is just a side character from one game decades ago..."

After seeing so much support for him even in Ultimate, I decided to put some thought into it and think " how COULD geno make sense as a Smash addition or be a nice fit?" When thinking it dawned on me that while we have alot of Mario reps, none of them that are exclusively an RPG rep, we had/have only platformer reps. At which point, I started thinking "well, what character would be good for representing the RPG side of Mario?" AT which point, geno did actually make sense to me, since he was one of the more important characters in the very first Mario RPG besides Mario. And obviously geno has the fan support. Only other character that could rep the Mario RPG side of things I think is Fawful, though I don't care as much about him personally.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Outside of this Famicom listing (which is sketchy because NES-era numbers are generally unreliable), the numbers speak for themselves I think:

Only one Metroid game ever broke 100k in Japan. Comparatively, both of the N64 Banjo games - on a console that bombed in Japan - have individually outsold all of these titles.

Source.

While Smash has probably raised the series' profile decently, it's very much not high profile by Japan's standards.

Actually, I can't believe I never noticed this until now, but where the hell's Super Metroid on here? Arguably the most iconic and highly respected game in the entire Metroid lineup, and this listing just omits it completely?

 

[N3ON]

If it's such a minor appearance then why did they get permission and pay Square back in 2003 when they were on much worse terms? Geno's popularity is much higher now than it was back then to the point that Nintendo has taken notice. You're allowed to let this thread have some positive vibes floating around without needing to respond with the "it probably means nothing" take on things. I said myself that it's merely interesting to think about.

If I were Square, I would ask for significantly more to license him now that he has known popularity than in 2002/3 when it's likely no one was the wiser.

Considering that remake was certainly a budget title for Nintendo, it wouldn't surprise me if they passed on Geno solely for that basis.

I am less and less motivated to post in this thread because I know that EricTheGamerman is going to make sure to remind me that Geno probably isn't going to get in. It's fun for me to have these moments of hope for a character I've wanted since 2006 and I want to enjoy them while they last. We only get to have time periods like these every 5 years or so.

Just because you want to build an echo chamber doesn't mean everyone is going to be on the same page. If your hope is so frail that it will falter at the instance of an opposing view, it wouldn't have endured since 2006. So if it really bothers you, just mute them.

 

[StormC]

Actually, I can't believe I never noticed this until now, but where the hell's Super Metroid on here? Arguably the most iconic and highly respected game in the entire Metroid lineup, and this listing just omits it completely?

There are no official published sales of Super Metroid in Japan. Which means it probably flopped.

 

[Sigran101]

My fiancee is working on a batch of jumbo sized Geno plushes. She's going to sell them for cheap on Etsy when she's done. Just wanted to let you guys know, because if there's a lot of interest she might make a bigger batch.

 

[AugustusB]

Perhaps moving from the subject of DQ is more recognized than Metroid is the best course right now. Let's shelf this along with PP...agree to disagree and move on gang.

EDIT: Sigran101 would you be willing to provide a link when that goes up? I would love to see that plush!

 

[N3ON]

DQ is bigger in Japan, Metroid is bigger in the west. Neither is very prolific in the opposite region. But DQ is bigger in Japan than Metroid is in the west. People overstate how ubiquitous Metroid is.

Now go talk about that puppet guy you all seem so fond of.

 

[Ovaltine]

My fiancee is working on a batch of jumbo sized Geno plushes. She's going to sell them for cheap on Etsy when she's done. Just wanted to let you guys know, because if there's a lot of interest she might make a bigger batch.

Holy heck, link me when she's done, too, because I will be SUPER interested.

 

[ZelDan]

Perhaps moving from the subject of DQ is more recognized than Metroid is the best course right now. Let's shelf this along with PP...agree to disagree and move on gang.

EDIT: Sigran101 would you be willing to provide a link when that goes up? I would love to see that plush!

Were people really getting that heated over the Metroid vs DQ talk though?

PP talk people certainly did. The current discussion seemed largely fine though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I've been pretty much on the Geno train since I was 8 years old (I'm 31 now). SMRPG was an enormous part of my childhood. I used to pretend to be Geno on the playground. I used to draw him in notebooks in school. I cried at the end of SMRPG and it's one of my favorite gaming memories because my best friend at the time was with me when it happened. He looked at me. I looked at him. He said "Geno..." and then started fake crying. I started real crying and then he hugged me and reassured me it was okay as the credits rolled. It wound up being an inside joke between us for years afterwards. I could practically write a dissertation on what SMRPG and Geno specifically mean to me and my identity as not only a gamer but as a whole.

 

[Sigran101]

Perhaps moving from the subject of DQ is more recognized than Metroid is the best course right now. Let's shelf this along with PP...agree to disagree and move on gang.

EDIT: Sigran101 would you be willing to provide a link when that goes up? I would love to see that plush!

Holy heck, link me when she's done, too, because I will be SUPER interested.

I'll absolutely post a link when it's done! For reference, here is her personally designed and crafted Flygon plush. (Don't mind my cousin in the background)

Spoiler: Flygon

Geno will be roughly the same size, maybe a little bigger, and probably cost around $30.

Edit: Front view of Flygon

Spoiler: Flygon

 

[Nicnac]

I've been pretty much on the Geno train since I was 8 years old (I'm 31 now). SMRPG was an enormous part of my childhood. I used to pretend to be Geno on the playground. I used to draw him in notebooks in school. I cried at the end of SMRPG and it's one of my favorite gaming memories because my best friend at the time was with me when it happened. He looked at me. I looked at him. He said "Geno..." and then started fake crying. I started real crying and then he hugged me and reassured me it was okay as the credits rolled. It wound up being an inside joke between us for years afterwards. I could practically write a dissertation on what SMRPG and Geno specifically mean to me and my identity as not only a gamer but as a whole.

That's really sweet. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume Geno's always been your number one pick? If so, is that why you say you're "ride or die" on Geno? You said that pretty much all of your other most wanteds are in, there's only one to go!

 

[AugustusB]

Were people really getting that heated over the Metroid vs DQ talk though?

PP talk people certainly did. The current discussion seemed largely fine though.

This is how the PP talk started. I am not about to come back here in the next two days and it is still going. No thank you. But also N3ON probably put it the best. Now leave is to our wooden doll!! /S (but seriously you are cool)

EDIT: I probably jumped hard on this because I just don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. It does seem fine currently so please, continue if you wish.

 

[N3ON]

This is how the PP talk started. I am not about to come back here in the next two days and it is still going. No thank you. But also N3ON probably put it the best. Now leave is to our wooden doll!! /S

Despite my prior post, I don't see any need to micromanage a conversation that is being handled amicably. If conversation looks to be getting off the rails, then intervention is needed, but until then I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Honestly I just wasn't paying attention, I was focusing on the conversation relevant to Geno. Crazy, I know. Sorry.

 

[AugustusB]

Despite my prior post, I don't see any need to micromanage a conversation that is being handled amicably. If conversation looks to be getting off the rails, then intervention is needed, but until then I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Honestly I just wasn't paying attention, I was focusing on the conversation relevant to Geno. Crazy, I know. Sorry.

Yeah I probably jumped the gun hard on this. My B. Also I hope you know I am kidding lol. And again, you have said it the best thus far.

 

[ZelDan]

If discussions on the internet had to be stopped because people might pitentially get toxic or heated, like, 99% of internet discussions would have to be stopped.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah I probably jumped the gun hard on this. My B. Also I hope you know I am kidding lol. And again, you have said it the best thus far.

Well this thread does seem a little more capricious than your average one, so I get the caution.

 

[Firox]

Were people really getting that heated over the Metroid vs DQ talk though?

PP talk people certainly did. The current discussion seemed largely fine though.

I agree that the DQ talk wasn't really all that heated. It all started just because I wanted to refute that guy that came in here with all the doom and gloom about Geno. I simply pointed out that their claim of the DLC being only "third party juggernauts" was incorrect in the cases of Hero and B-K, then people started getting a little defensive over the "juggernaut" status of DQ. As pretty much everyone agrees, DQ is indeed notable, especially in Japan, however, that fact doesn't support the theory that the FP is only going to be third party "juggernauts". That's all. If nothing else, I found it kind of interesting to research the sales numbers. I had no idea Japan was so flippant about Metroid.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That's really sweet. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume Geno's always been your number one pick? If so, is that why you say you're "ride or die" on Geno? You said that pretty much all of your other most wanteds are in, there's only one to go!

Without question. KCCHIEFS27 , PsychoIncarnate , TBone06 , Xigger , etc have all known each other to some degree since 2005 thanks to Geno support and we've all been in it for the long haul. My top 5 since probably about 2002 has been Ridley, MegaMan, Wario, King Dedede, and, of course, Geno and there's been various characters that I've supported over the years like Isabelle, Little Mac, Diddy Kong, Palutena, etc but Geno has always been my most wanted. Even characters that I ultimately gave up on like Banjo, Villager, and the Koopalings eventually found their way in so, in a sense, I'm more than ready to make that final check mark.

 

[AugustusB]

To kind of jump start this topic again.

What do YOU consider to be a gaming juggernaut? Is it something recognizable just by looking at it? Hearing a familiar tune and know where it's from? Do sales define a juggernaut game/series?

I don't have an answer, but I am interested to see what others think.

 

[Firox]

To kind of jump start this topic again.

What do YOU consider to be a gaming juggernaut? Is it something recognizable just by looking at it? Hearing a familiar tune and know where it's from? Do sales define a juggernaut game/series?

I don't have an answer, but I am interested to see what others think.

I would personally say that a "juggernaut" is a combination of recognizability, an epic gaming experience AND a commercial success. Some solid examples of gaming "juggernauts" would obviously be Mario, Link, Sonic and Megaman. I would also argue that Master Chief and Cloud are juggernauts.

 

[Nicnac]

I would personally say that a "juggernaut" is a combination of recognizability, an epic gaming experience AND a commercial success. Some solid examples of gaming "juggernauts" would obviously be Mario, Link, Sonic and Megaman. I would also argue that Master Chief and Cloud are juggernauts.

I'd call every third party apart from Ken, Richter, Bayo and Joker a juggernaut. Minecraft Steve I'd also call one, and to a lesser extent Sans.

 

[Ze Diglett]

To kind of jump start this topic again.

What do YOU consider to be a gaming juggernaut? Is it something recognizable just by looking at it? Hearing a familiar tune and know where it's from? Do sales define a juggernaut game/series?

I don't have an answer, but I am interested to see what others think.

Mostly recognizability, but sales do factor into that a bit as well. (Though I honestly hate talking about them since sales talk inevitably devolves into a ****-measuring contest of whose franchise has sold more copies where when that's honestly the most superficial measure of "success" imaginable.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd call every third party apart from Ken, Richter, Bayo and Joker a juggernaut. Minecraft Steve I'd also call one, and to a lesser extent Sans.

Eh, I think Ken fits pretty damn well in there. He's just as known as Ryu is at this point. If anything, he's slightly below Ryu, which isn't saying much. Street Fighter has some major icons, including Ken but also has Chun-Li. Akuma is less known in comparison, though, but still up there. Guile might actually be more known than Akuma at this point, though it helps that some media like to play him as the main protagonist instead of Ryu, so... never mind M. Bison(that is, the Shadaloo boss with Psycho Powers for those who have to deal with inconsistent names).

 

[Datboigeno]

To kind of jump start this topic again.

What do YOU consider to be a gaming juggernaut? Is it something recognizable just by looking at it? Hearing a familiar tune and know where it's from? Do sales define a juggernaut game/series?

I don't have an answer, but I am interested to see what others think.

When I think of gaming juggernauts I think it’s a combination of sales, longevity, and influence on popular culture.

Off the top of my head I would say first-party Nintendo juggernaut franchises would be Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda. Non-Nintendo I would say Sonic, Megaman, Minecraft, Halo, Street Fighter, and Final Fantasy would be juggernaut-tier.

 

[Deleted member]

@ForsakenM Almost everyone is a "meme pick" until they actually happen or credible leakers imply they're going to happen. I've been here long enough to know that most characters after Brawl were not respected or taken seriously and you can probably count on one hand that were. Pretty much every female character since ZSS has been accused of being "waifu trash." Pit was probably the last "retro" character that was decently respected by the Smash fanbase before they got in. Characters like Ridley and Chrom (ironically, "a sure thing" until Robin was confirmed and then they traded places) were dunked on until the day they were confirmed.

Question, what made Pit be seen as such a good candiate back in the day? Was it his appereance in the Captain N Cartoon or something? I know this may seem wierd to ask because Pit is in Smash now but what made him the top contender back in the Pre-Brawl days (well i mean the days before Pit got confirmed)

and about "Waifu Trash", as long as something like a Senran Kagura character doesn't show up i don't think people will make a fit about it.

Third party wise, MegaMan and Sonic are probably the only ones that the Smash fanbase didn't immediately dismiss before they got in or a leaker said they were going to happen..

I can attest to that.

Take this as someone who was part of the Pre-release Smash 4 Speculation era, Third Parties were speculated in a very "Conservative" way (for lack of a better word), almost no character outisde of Pac-Man was talked about newcomer-wise. Lloyd? Barely talked about, shrugged off the moment Pac Showed up. Ryu Hayabusa? Not even talked about. Bomberman? Lol no (then again he was dead at the time) SNK? Lmao who the **** is that? (i know SNK im just making a joke here) Crash? Same as the White Bomber. and so on and so forth.

When it came to Square, most people actually thought Black Mage was the go-to guy. Why? Because people still took the whole "History with Nintendo" thing very seriously, even if that meant excluding FF's most renowed Protagonist. Erdrick and the other DQ Heroes were not even a blip on the radar, and people (albeit a very small percentage of people) talked about Slime instead (i think that's simply because people didn't care about DQ enough to research and just thought of the first thing they could come up with for a character) people would have laughed at you if you brought up Cloud, Sora and/or Lara Croft (the latter was lmost a name i don't even remember seeing those days)

I think i saw some Layton talk here and there, but because the whole "Guests must be world-renowed icons that are SUPER MEGA MAINSTREAM" was still a thing in those days, he suffered from it.

What about the likes of Simon and Ryu? Well I-"ONE CHARACTER PER COMPANY!"

Huh wha th--"oNE CHAacaractER PEer CoPMENy!!!!!11111"

Yeah that was it.

I think the Smash 4 DLC was a game-changer in this regard. Companies could get more than one rep, history with Nintendo wasn't a necessity (although one could argue it never was once you retroactively look at Snake) and guests didn't have to be super mega mainstream, they could be more niche.