Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ovaltine]

People keep responding to my post so let me just say one last thing here.

I typed out most of this before, but went back and edited it out after I thought about it a second time because I didn't really want to start any trouble or insult anyone. Apparently you guys like that sort of thing and want to keep dog piling on me even after I said "I'm sorry. I'll just leave", so here I go.


I didn't think I needed a solid reason to go into any topic and state and opinion. I thought this was an open forum. Where people could post their opinions, thoughts, and ideas on characters regardless if they supported them or not.

Honestly, I was curious as to exactly why people do support Geno as much as they do and what arguments they would have in his favor. To be honest, Geno support baffles me. He was a supporting character in a spinoff of another character series decades ago. He has little to no real fandom that I've seen. He rarley gets brought up in anything except when people say they want him in Smash.

I've played Super Mario RPG back when the idea of Mario even being in an RPG was so weird that it blew people's minds. I've played through it again recently. I still don't see what the big deal about the character is. I thought that if I shared my own views, people could respond and we could have a nice civilized discussion, especially given that the topic had already turned to Mallow before I brought him up. You would think havign an outside point of view could be good for conversation. It keeps people thinking or what the character is and why they support him and it prevents the topic from simply becoming an echo chamber.

Instead of anything resembling interesting conversation or discussion, I get attacked and insulted. Repeatedly. If this is how you want to support your character, have fun with that.

I've laid my thought on the subject and my motivations on the table now for those who were interested and have nothing more to add. Don't bother quoting and responding to me on this because I simply don't care to discuss it anymore. If you want to think of me as the bad guy, just some idiot that trying to troll you that has no idea what he's talking about, feel free. I certainly don't want anything to do with any more Geno conversations.

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of stuff I want to prevent. Chasing people out of threads is not helping our cause, not to mention that this is far from the first time. As much as I disagree with the notion that the Geno fan base in general is bad, it's moments like these where I realize why the fan base has such a bad reputation.

I know you said not to quote and respond, but I did want to apologize for what happened. See ya on the flipside.

I'm gonna be honest for a minute if you all don't mind but we definitely need to change up some things regarding this whole thread and how we treat outsiders with differing opinions it's not just that this new guy came in and we scared him away cause we're ambivalent towards new people joining the discussion but I've seen this happen multiple times throughout the recent months. We either think someone is trolling or stupid if someone comes in here with little to no knowledge of Geno but wants to talk about him which if we treat people who don't have a lot of knowledge towards Geno that way which is a lot of people it just adds up to us not getting as many supporters or as many people here than we should or could.

This isn't how the Geno fanbase should act. Our character is niche and while we're big in the Smash Community Geno isn't very recognized outside of it so we should understand why someone may not have a lot of knowledge on why someone would want Geno, How much Moveset potential Geno really has and what makes Geno Special. Just cause someone has a different opinion than us doesn't mean they're a troll they're just not informed or have much knowledge on the topic and I for one understand that.

We should change this before this impacts the fanbase of Geno in the long run and we should change this not only for that but because behind the screens we're all human so we should treat each other as such.

So I for one am sorry to anyone we drove out and we need to change this.

ETA: YES. Thank you. I'm getting tired of this ****. We need to be better about all of this. Moments like these make me so embarrassed to be a Geno fan.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm gonna be honest for a minute if you all don't mind but we definitely need to change up some things regarding this whole thread and how we treat outsiders with differing opinions it's not just that this new guy came in and we scared him away cause we're ambivalent towards new people joining the discussion but I've seen this happen multiple times throughout the recent months. We either think someone is trolling or stupid if someone comes in here with little to no knowledge of Geno but wants to talk about him which if we treat people who don't have a lot of knowledge towards Geno that way which is a lot of people it just adds up to us not getting as many supporters or as many people here than we should or could.

This isn't how the Geno fanbase should act. Our character is niche and while we're big in the Smash Community Geno isn't very recognized outside of it so we should understand why someone may not have a lot of knowledge on why someone would want Geno, How much Moveset potential Geno really has and what makes Geno Special. Just cause someone has a different opinion than us doesn't mean they're a troll they're just not informed or have much knowledge on the topic and I for one understand that.

We should change this before this impacts the fanbase of Geno in the long run and we should change this not only for that but because behind the screens we're all human so we should treat each other as such.

So I for one am sorry to anyone we drove out and we need to change this.

If I could like a post twice I would. We had a chance to turn somebody into a fan, or at least someone who understands and sympathizes with us. Instead we turned them into a person who thinks Geno fans attack anyone who disagrees. And the worst part? They're right.

It's frankly disgusting. This needs to change or we're gonna fall apart. This isn't how you gain fans; this is how you lose them. And I'm not just talking about missed opportunities...

Also please, if you like and agree what I said with this post or what Shotostar and Oval just said, speak up. Last time I posted something like this I got a lot of likes but I think it would really help make a difference if more of us spoke up.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

That comment of Sakurai mentioning that there's more than just the companies coming together and this being a business, it's that the seeing the characters interacting with one another and acting out in the game together is something else.

It's breathtaking and Heartwarming to see them in action and also how he, even as a director of a project/product aims to please (regardless of some decisions or characters presented) and that that's the point of making this series.

A collage of gaming icons for people to come together and have fun with the videogames that we not only grew up with but enjoy as a whole.

It's a nice summary of why we like videogames and that's kind of the point of why people are fans.

Kudos for making the series and making it possible for people over the world, Masahiro Sakurai.

.

 

[AugustusB]

If I could like a post twice I would. We had a chance to turn somebody into a fan, or at least someone who understands and sympathizes with us. Instead we turned them into a person who thinks Geno fans attack anyone who disagrees. And the worst part? They're right.

It's frankly disgusting. This needs to change or we're gonna fall apart. This isn't how you gain fans; this is how you lose them. And I'm not just talking about missed opportunities...

Also please, if you like and agree what I said with this post or what Shotostar and Oval just said, speak up. Last time I posted something like this I got a lot of likes but I think it would really help make a difference if more of us spoke up.

I agree. WE NEED TO BE BETTER THAN THIS!

I was away from this thread for awhile to not just support other characters, but the toxicity (of our city) got pretty bad for awhile.

Now, it doesn't seem as bad as it was months ago, but this is only a precursor for things to come. We all have opinions that would like to be voiced and off the top of my head, EricTheGamerman , I always enjoy your input. It gives us a different spin and new perspective, as opposed to our wonderful StarBoi being infallible.

In some cases, their are people who come in here and start ****, but attacking them is not the way to win. Feed them with kindness and they will bloat and lose their power of trolling.

I encourage all of us to just be and let be. We are not better than others, our character does not deserve this image. Let us be like our wonderful Star Savior and bring some joy back gang! The more people we can kill with kindness and understanding, the better we will feel about ourselves. TRUST ME.

 

[ZelDan]

So...I guess I should stop making this "go away if you don't share our opinions on Geno, nobody even cares what you think" sign for this thread?

 

[Ovaltine]

I agree. WE NEED TO BE BETTER THAN THIS!

I was away from this thread for awhile to not just support other characters, but the toxicity (of our city) got pretty bad for awhile.

Now, it doesn't seem as bad as it was months ago, but this is only a precursor for things to come. We all have opinions that would like to be voiced and off the top of my head, EricTheGamerman , I always enjoy your input. It gives us a different spin and new perspective, as opposed to our wonderful StarBoi being infallible.

In some cases, their are people who come in here and start ****, but attacking them is not the way to win. Feed them with kindness and they will bloat and lose their power of trolling.

I encourage all of us to just be and let be. We are not better than others, our character does not deserve this image. Let us be like our wonderful Star Savior and bring some joy back gang! The more people we can kill with kindness and understanding, the better we will feel about ourselves. TRUST ME.

God, this. This so much.

Listen, y'all. Geno is such a sweet and benevolent being. He is patient with explanations and confusion. He works hard to grant peoples' wishes. He is the image of an angel... yet our thread is quick to turn people away if they don't quite understand. I've wanted to leave the thread multiple times over the behavior that happens here, but no, I am standing my ground and I am ready to show the world that not all of Geno's fans are like this. We can be better than this. We need to be better than this.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 229353

Yo, just popped over to Nintendo of Japan to ask for Geno in Smash, you guys want anything while I’m here?

Can you ask them to make a new Wario Land please?

 

[SSGuy]

View attachment 229353

Yo, just popped over to Nintendo of Japan to ask for Geno in Smash, you guys want anything while I’m here?

Yeah, an answer to your super important question of why Geno is not in Smash yet.

Also ask if they can at least please let Meganium family be in the Galar Region

Have fun at NoJ!

 

[Ze Diglett]

View attachment 229353

Yo, just popped over to Nintendo of Japan to ask for Geno in Smash, you guys want anything while I’m here?

Ask what the status is on Paper Mario. Please... I need to know if my boy is safe...

 

[Kirbeh]

Any recommendations on what stat growths to focus on? I just recruited Geno, and so far with the other two I've been mostly cycling through each option for every level up for the most part, but I've been thinking of putting more into magic for Mallow since he seems like he'll be the mage of the group overall. Do the party members follow anything similar to classes in FF or is it going to be more of it's own thing. I'm still early on of course, but I do want to focus each character on what benefits them most.

 

[AugustusB]

Any recommendations on what stat growths to focus on? I just recruited Geno, and so far with the other two I've been mostly cycling through each option for every level up for the most part, but I've been thinking of putting more into magic for Mallow since he seems like he'll be the mage of the group overall. Do the party members follow anything similar to classes in FF or is it going to be more of it's own thing. I'm still early on of course, but I do want to focus each character on what benefits them most.

Honestly, I think you can safely cycle through. Before you confirm your stat boost, you can see which gives you more bang for your buck.

Example: Mario may get more HP one time you level up, but the next level might give you more strength.

 

[ZelDan]

Any recommendations on what stat growths to focus on? I just recruited Geno, and so far with the other two I've been mostly cycling through each option for every level up for the most part, but I've been thinking of putting more into magic for Mallow since he seems like he'll be the mage of the group overall. Do the party members follow anything similar to classes in FF or is it going to be more of it's own thing. I'm still early on of course, but I do want to focus each character on what benefits them most.

Each level up has it so one stat has a larger increase over other ones. I usually just go to which one has the biggest increase each time.

 

[BZocky]

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Yo, just popped over to Nintendo of Japan to ask for Geno in Smash, you guys want anything while I’m here?

You’re so lucky to be there, have a great time. Also inquirie about Wario Land Switch pls

 

[Wazygoose]

Oddball I don’t think Geno has to be your #1 to come to the Geno thread, people here are just going to be on edge until Geno is revealed.

I get that other people don’t understand why Geno gets any support. Personally I think the massive support for Banjo-Kazooie is weird, I never played those games and to me he’s just a dumb looking low-poly bear with a bird backpack. I got the fighters pass and wish he wasn’t in it because I don’t care about him. But for Geno, I think he’s be rad and want him in the fighters pass.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Probably late to the party but the recent Sakurai article in Famitsu is encouraging. Some of the highlights:

-Basically agreed that Hero and Banjo were super hard to get in theory but both companies were cooperative when it was seen that Sakurai and Nintendo wanted them.

-"Eight" was added as one of Hero's Alts basically because of Western demand.

-Sakurai recognizing the longevity of Banjo requests and how they went back to the N64 days.

-Apparently the Dragon Quest Heros aren't supposed to appear with each other in games, let alone fight each other. Sakurai somehow managed to negotiate this to please fans and break what's essentially a 30 year rule for the series.

All in all, a good read and piles on the evidence that if Sakurai wants something, he'll probably get it and his main motivator for adding things is usually fan demand.

 

[AugustusB]

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Yo, just popped over to Nintendo of Japan to ask for Geno in Smash, you guys want anything while I’m here?

Inquire about F-Zero!

 

[owjies]

God, this. This so much.

Listen, y'all. Geno is such a sweet and benevolent being. He is patient with explanations and confusion. He works hard to grant peoples' wishes. He is the image of an angel... yet our thread is quick to turn people away if they don't quite understand. I've wanted to leave the thread multiple times over the behavior that happens here, but no, I am standing my ground and I am ready to show the world that not all of Geno's fans are like this. We can be better than this. We need to be better than this.

I kinda look at it like that scene in Smithy's factory where Geno convinces Bowser to stick with the team til the bitter end. Bowser, per usual, is in it for himself. He has his castle back, why help Mario and the gang beat Smithy? Geno, calmly explains that everyone's best interest is in Bowser's own too. If they don't defeat Smithy now, more enemies will threaten both the Mushroom and Koopa kingdoms. Bowser internally agrees, but puts up a front, trying to hide his agreement from Mario and Geno. Bowser has an image to keep up after all.

Bowser throughout Mario RPG acts like a typical troll. He's self-centered, stubborn, and really struggles to ever admit being wrong. Bowser's subtle shifts in character, joining Mario's team and ultimately sticking with them in order to defeat Smithy is why this is my all-time favorite representation of the character.

On the surface it may seem kinda silly, but I think Ovaltine is exactly right here, we can look to Geno for inspiration. Whether it's to educate someone that doesn't understand why there's a demand for Geno or whether it's to firmly, but respectfully, defend our fandom from trolls, using logic and positivity over emotion is how we bring people around to the cause.

Today was a day of mobilization for Geno and just about every disconfirmed character. This is the closest I've felt to Geno having a tangible chance from here onward since the Seven Squares were revealed. If Sakurai is really committed to future Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo style reveals, then it feels like we're in a soft Ballot 2.0 period. The next Ridley might show up if a second Fighters Pass arrives or might show up in Smash 6 years down the road. Banjo was one of the faces of the N64 era. Geno doesn't have that luxury. We need a snowball effect. Even if someone doesn't understand why we enjoy SMRPG as much as we do, if we can at least earn their solidarity and understanding that's one step closer to the goal.

Remember when this thread was filled with people from the general thread during the Seven Squares leak? One of the first things we did was ask people what their favorite pie was.

So, what's everyone's favorite cake? Carrot all the way for me!

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

He has little to no real fandom that I've seen.

Imagine posting on the single most popular character support thread on the entire website and saying the character has little to no real fandom.

I would have some respect for you if you just admitted you flat out didn’t like the character and that’s why you don’t want him in. Instead you choose to bring up ****ty weak reasons as to why he shouldn’t be in smash that aren’t even accurate. You aren’t fooling anyone you didn’t come here to be convinced about why Geno should be in

 

[ZelDan]

Oreo Ice cream cake is the best

 

[MissingGlitch]

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Yo, just popped over to Nintendo of Japan to ask for Geno in Smash, you guys want anything while I’m here?

Can you get me a cheese burger?

 

[AugustusB]

I kinda look at it like that scene in Smithy's factory where Geno convinces Bowser to stick with the team til the bitter end. Bowser, per usual, is in it for himself. He has his castle back, why help Mario and the gang beat Smithy? Geno, calmly explains that everyone's best interest is in Bowser's own too. If they don't defeat Smithy now, more enemies will threaten both the Mushroom and Koopa kingdoms. Bowser internally agrees, but puts up a front, trying to hide his agreement from Mario and Geno. Bowser has an image to keep up after all.

Bowser throughout Mario RPG acts like a typical troll. He's self-centered, stubborn, and really struggles to ever admit being wrong. Bowser's subtle shifts in character, joining Mario's team and ultimately sticking with them in order to defeat Smithy is why this is my all-time favorite representation of the character.

On the surface it may seem kinda silly, but I think Ovaltine is exactly right here, we can look to Geno for inspiration. Whether it's to educate someone that doesn't understand why there's a demand for Geno or whether it's to firmly, but respectfully, defend our fandom from trolls, using logic and positivity over emotion is how we bring people around to the cause.

Today was a day of mobilization for Geno and just about every disconfirmed character. This is the closest I've felt to Geno having a tangible chance from here onward since the Seven Squares were revealed. If Sakurai is really committed to future Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo style reveals, then it feels like we're in a soft Ballot 2.0 period. The next Ridley might show up if a second Fighters Pass arrives or might show up in Smash 6 years down the road. Banjo was one of the faces of the N64 era. Geno doesn't have that luxury. We need a snowball effect. Even if someone doesn't understand why we enjoy SMRPG as much as we do, if we can at least earn their solidarity and understanding that's one step closer to the goal.

Remember when this thread was filled with people from the general thread during the Seven Squares leak? One of the first things we did was ask people what their favorite pie was.

So, what's everyone's favorite cake? Carrot all the way for me!

Hi, Pie guy here. Still overjoyed that is somehow still in people's minds.

To answer your question, Red Velvet Cake...my biggest weakness.

EDIT: Also, your analogy is pretty dang spot on. Could not have put it better if I tried.

Also inspired to get back into making music covers. I think I will do either Mario's Pad or The battle theme from SMRPG.

 

[SSGuy]

Imagine posting on the single most popular character support thread on the entire website and saying the character has little to no real fandom.

I would have some respect for you if you just admitted you flat out didn’t like the character and that’s why you don’t want him in. Instead you choose to bring up ****ty weak reasons as to why he shouldn’t be in smash that aren’t even accurate. You aren’t fooling anyone you didn’t come here to be convinced about why Geno should be in

With all due respect, Geno has been the only character I have ever wanted in Smash Bros. I have waiting/asking/pleading/losing sleep over him since 2006.

Literally. The Only. One.

Here is the thing about most wanted characters/fandoms. K.Rool was not my most wanted. Banjo was not my most wanted and Ridley' definitely was not apart of my most wanted. And yet, I supported them and I still contributed to their so called real fandom. Hell, I made the original Rayman for Smash 4 DLC thread before I really got involved with the Geno thread. Arguably Rayman is a distance 2nd place on my list but that certainly does not mean I am not apart of Rayman's fandom.

There is really no such thing as a real fandom. Smash Bros isn't and shouldn't be about tribalism and it doesn't matter if Geno is someone's 2nd most wanted or their 8th most wanted character for Smash Bros. The fact that they want and mention him is all that is needed. Surely as the line to get in gets smaller and smaller, Geno will slowly rise in the rankings of others.

The fact that so many people would welcome Geno with open arms is more than enough for me to consider them apart of the Geno fandom. And we will only really get their so long as we continue to support him together, as a Smash Community.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'm gonna be honest for a minute if you all don't mind but we definitely need to change up some things regarding this whole thread and how we treat outsiders with differing opinions it's not just that this new guy came in and we scared him away cause we're ambivalent towards new people joining the discussion but I've seen this happen multiple times throughout the recent months. We either think someone is trolling or stupid if someone comes in here with little to no knowledge of Geno but wants to talk about him which if we treat people who don't have a lot of knowledge towards Geno that way which is a lot of people it just adds up to us not getting as many supporters or as many people here than we should or could.

This isn't how the Geno fanbase should act. Our character is niche and while we're big in the Smash Community Geno isn't very recognized outside of it so we should understand why someone may not have a lot of knowledge on why someone would want Geno, How much Moveset potential Geno really has and what makes Geno Special. Just cause someone has a different opinion than us doesn't mean they're a troll they're just not informed or have much knowledge on the topic and I for one understand that.

We should change this before this impacts the fanbase of Geno in the long run and we should change this not only for that but because behind the screens we're all human so we should treat each other as such.

So I for one am sorry to anyone we drove out and we need to change this.

I haven't been around this thread for long and was welcomed with open arms, but I've been noticing some hostility towards outsiders and I for one think that needs to change. Geno may be prevalent within Smash speculation, but outside of cameos he still only has one major appearance under his belt, and a pretty old one at that. There are still a lot of people who don't know about him, so we should take that into consideration.

I mean who knows, they may end up liking Geno too and want to learn more about him.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

As a relative newcomer to this thread, the amount of smug condescension and general toxicity found here by some users is INSANE to me.

I talked to someone in a Smash FB group recently that said they didn't want Banjo in Smash solely because of the way certain Banjo fans had treated him for wanting Steve in. I thought that logic was ridiculous until I started paying attention to this thread. Some of the posts here seem hellbent on driving away anyone not intensely indoctrinated into the Cult Of Geno. This is NOT how you go about winning supporters. This is how you tank your cause. Engaging in or tolerating this behavior will only lead to the stigmatization of Geno's fanbase, to the point that his supporters will be typecast as toxic, unreasonable buttholes who shouldn't get their way.

As for the whole "Geno has a fandom!" thing...

As someone who wants Viewtiful Joe in the game (not as much as Rayman or Geno, but I think it'd be cool), I can still be realistic and honest. Joe may have supporters, and a fandom, but OUTSIDE THAT BUBBLE, there's no huge push from the mainstream to see him in Smash.

Geno is heavily requested by his fandom and the Smash community in general, but realistically, to the AVERAGE CONSUMER not engaged in Smash newcomer speculation (aka 99% of the people who will buy Smash DLC) , he is a Literal Who. RPG is a beloved classic for those who played it, but it's still a sole, niche title from decades ago, and Geno is a secondary character from that one game, who hasn't appeared in a major fashion since that title.

Geno isn't a character your AVERAGE CONSUMER wants in Smash, or gives a **** about. The characters your average consumer want or would care about getting into Smash are like... Master Chief, Sora, Crash, maybe Lara Croft.

I don't say any of this to crap on Geno as a character, or to say he has no chance, or to say he has no support, or that people shouldn't want/hope for him to be in. Hell, I'm among those people! But denying the reality of the circumstances surrounding this topic is not helpful or constructive. And being so toxic to those more willing to properly assess the situation or point out these issues is similairly unhelpful.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I just want people to be nice to each other...

 

[thirsty-pocket]

you know I used to be pretty anti Geno I loved Super Mario RPG, it was a game near and dear to my heart, it was one of the only games I had to play in a particularly trying time in my life, And it was the first Mario game to have a fully fleshed-out story, which was pretty big to me. despite that, I still thought Geno in Smash was a weird idea, especially if he was playable and mallow wasn't. it just seemed like a really weird choice to me to put A Mario RPG side character in when there's still a couple of Mario Mainstays that haven't made it yet. and I maintained this attitude right up until Smash ultimate actually. I did a complete 180 and started to support him, because of a lot of fans having more hope than ever before started letting out some very heartfelt stories about and why Geno really resonated with them.
PapaGeno's video in particular really resonated with me, And converted me into a full-fledged supporter. The Mario series really is a lot more than just what you find in the cast of your average Mario Sports game. And Nintendo has never been great about using The extended Mario cast to their fullest potential. but smash isn't a Mario game, and it is a place where Arbitrary mandates and rules just don't have to apply. the Dragon Quest characters are now allowed to meet each other and even fight each other. So why, then, are we boring Mario RPG characters from intrigued, just like every other Mario spin-off?
to me, personally, Geno is the only Mario RPG character that would cut it. Mario RPG represents the first with a story. And Geno, Despite not having the strongest characterization in the game, is the central pillar to that story. He represents a new era for Mario. An era that the Mario team seems to want to leave behind, similar to what Rareware was doing with banjo. Paper Mario simply wouldn't do it, because he didn't pioneer the Mario RPG, and frankly, these days Paper Mario represents Something somewhat negative in my eyes ( and personally speaking, I'm not fond of the idea of a third Mario ). The only other Contender would be fawful, And I'm just going to leave it at, I don't care for him. For me it's got to be Geno.

 

[TheCJBrine]

As a relative newcomer to this thread, the amount of smug condescension and general toxicity found here by some users is INSANE to me.

I talked to someone in a Smash FB group recently that said they didn't want Banjo in Smash solely because of the way certain Banjo fans had treated him for wanting Steve in. I thought that logic was ridiculous until I started paying attention to this thread. Some of the posts here seem hellbent on driving away anyone not intensely indoctrinated into the Cult Of Geno. This is NOT how you go about winning supporters. This is how you tank your cause. Engaging in or tolerating this behavior will only lead to the stigmatization of Geno's fanbase, to the point that his supporters will be typecast as toxic, unreasonable buttholes who shouldn't get their way.

As for the whole "Geno has a fandom!" thing...

As someone who wants Viewtiful Joe in the game (not as much as Rayman or Geno, but I think it'd be cool), I can still be realistic and honest. Joe may have supporters, and a fandom, but OUTSIDE THAT BUBBLE, there's no huge push from the mainstream to see him in Smash.

Geno is heavily requested by his fandom and the Smash community in general, but realistically, to the AVERAGE CONSUMER not engaged in Smash newcomer speculation (aka 99% of the people who will buy Smash DLC) , he is a Literal Who. RPG is a beloved classic for those who played it, but it's still a sole, niche title from decades ago, and Geno is a secondary character from that one game, who hasn't appeared in a major fashion since that title.

Geno isn't a character your AVERAGE CONSUMER wants in Smash, or gives a **** about. The characters your average consumer want or would care about getting into Smash are like... Master Chief, Sora, Crash, maybe Lara Croft.


I don't say any of this to crap on Geno as a character, or to say he has no chance, or to say he has no support, or that people shouldn't want/hope for him to be in. Hell, I'm among those people! But denying the reality of the circumstances surrounding this topic is not helpful or constructive. And being so toxic to those more willing to properly assess the situation or point out these issues is similairly unhelpful.

Honestly, despite loving Banjo-Kazooie since I was 4, I also had a bit of negative thinking once regarding them and Smash after seeing how some B-K fans acted when Steve was brought up, so I can understand that guy on FB; but, since I love B-K and a lot of fans are nice (plus I really think you shouldn’t judge something based on its fanbase), that only lasted minutes out of one day so idk.

 

[GreyJedi]

Perception is an odd thing.

When I first came to this thread, I had no idea who Geno even was (I actually came here from a link to some stuff Polar Panda posted). Since then, I’ve been lurking on this thread since sometime around January, I think. I hardly ever ventured into other threads on smashboards, and mostly just stayed on this one.
Why would I lurk on a thread about a character I never even heard of before? Because of the laidback and chill discussion which I wasn’t used to finding on threads, particularly video game ones. Even when the conversation got a little heated here, often times you guy would back off and say something like, ‘Hey let’s chill and agree to disagree.’

Another thing I loved was that on this particular thread, there was sense of self-regulation; Geno fans would routinely call out other Geno fans if they were saying things out of line. And by ‘call out,’ I mean in a normally tasteful and polite manner. There were missteps, of course. And yes, there seems to have been more of them recently. But even now, that same self-regulation is already kicking in with members calling for people to be more welcoming.

This might sound a little weird, but I assure you this is true: this thread became something of a go to for me during the darkest part of my life I’ve ever had, a period where I’ve been struggling with depression, anxiety, and when two people I called my closest friends decided to cut me out of their life. This thread actually helped with all of that by offering a safe little chill place to keep my mind off all of my own problems for a few minutes of my day.

I’m probably going to go back to lurk mode after this. I’m way to busy to make the time to post stuff commonly. But for a while now I’ve wanted to make a account just to say this: the people in this thread have made me a Geno supporter. To terribly paraphrase a statement that Ovaltine has made a few times, ‘Geno is a character of admirable qualities, and therefore we should emulate those same qualities.’ It’s that kind of spirit which is why I want to see Geno in smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

As a relative newcomer to this thread, the amount of smug condescension and general toxicity found here by some users is INSANE to me.

I talked to someone in a Smash FB group recently that said they didn't want Banjo in Smash solely because of the way certain Banjo fans had treated him for wanting Steve in. I thought that logic was ridiculous until I started paying attention to this thread. Some of the posts here seem hellbent on driving away anyone not intensely indoctrinated into the Cult Of Geno. This is NOT how you go about winning supporters. This is how you tank your cause. Engaging in or tolerating this behavior will only lead to the stigmatization of Geno's fanbase, to the point that his supporters will be typecast as toxic, unreasonable buttholes who shouldn't get their way.

As for the whole "Geno has a fandom!" thing...

As someone who wants Viewtiful Joe in the game (not as much as Rayman or Geno, but I think it'd be cool), I can still be realistic and honest. Joe may have supporters, and a fandom, but OUTSIDE THAT BUBBLE, there's no huge push from the mainstream to see him in Smash.

Geno is heavily requested by his fandom and the Smash community in general, but realistically, to the AVERAGE CONSUMER not engaged in Smash newcomer speculation (aka 99% of the people who will buy Smash DLC) , he is a Literal Who. RPG is a beloved classic for those who played it, but it's still a sole, niche title from decades ago, and Geno is a secondary character from that one game, who hasn't appeared in a major fashion since that title.

Geno isn't a character your AVERAGE CONSUMER wants in Smash, or gives a **** about. The characters your average consumer want or would care about getting into Smash are like... Master Chief, Sora, Crash, maybe Lara Croft.

I don't say any of this to crap on Geno as a character, or to say he has no chance, or to say he has no support, or that people shouldn't want/hope for him to be in. Hell, I'm among those people! But denying the reality of the circumstances surrounding this topic is not helpful or constructive. And being so toxic to those more willing to properly assess the situation or point out these issues is similairly unhelpful.

I agree with most of your post. Just wanted to point out that SMRPG isn't really a niche game, it sold pretty well. I think it did struggle with maintaining much of a legacy, what with Square and Nintendo having a notorious falling out and the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi franchises taking the torch.

Another thing I'd like to mention is that as far as Smash bubbles characters go, Geno has kind of earned some fame purely because of how big he is within it. Like, whenever I see internet talk of Smash and the characters fans demand, Geno always gets a mention, and that's admirable in its own way. None of this makes Geno less of an obscure character to the mainstream, but it does help and I'd argue that at this point the mainstream doesn't dictate what happens.

Again, totally agree with the rest of your post. Just wanted to nitpick those two details before someone else scrapped your entire post because of them.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Geno is heavily requested by his fandom and the Smash community in general, but realistically, to the AVERAGE CONSUMER not engaged in Smash newcomer speculation (aka 99% of the people who will buy Smash DLC) , he is a Literal Who. RPG is a beloved classic for those who played it, but it's still a sole, niche title from decades ago, and Geno is a secondary character from that one game, who hasn't appeared in a major fashion since that title.

Yeah, no. Sorry, but I can't abide by the idea that SMRPG is some "niche title". Even ignoring the sales numbers (mostly because that's a slippery slope I'd rather not fall into and sales talk as it relates to Smash speculation is just kind of ****ty by default anyway), it's easily one of the most popular games on the SNES to this day, and even decades after its prime, it's still a staple on "Best SNES Games" lists everywhere. Hell, I'd dare say certain aspects of the game like the soundtrack are downright iconic at this point. (How many YouTubers out there frequently use SMRPG music in their videos, even if they haven't played the game?) To act like it's some obscure RPG nobody played is just kind of disingenuous IMO and it bothers me a lot when people say that about a game that's actually super popular for how admittedly remote it is. We're not talking about Earthbound here. (Not throwing shade at Earthbound, but that's a SNES RPG that was actually super unpopular when it launched, at least in the West.)
That, and if you honestly still think casual Smash fans (i.e. non-speculators) have no idea who Geno is, then frankly, you haven't been paying attention. At this point, casual fans at least have a cursory knowledge of who Geno is, he isn't just some Smashboards-exclusive pick like so many are convinced he is. True, he is the posterboy of never-ever picks and arguably of Smash speculation as a whole (which is something to be immensely proud of given the character's stature in the video game world), but I assure you his popularity in the fanbase extends further than the "Smash Bubble". Geno's just a generally popular character, especially for a one-off character from the Mario series. At the very least, he's easily the most popular RPG-exclusive Mario character even despite his irrelevancy, except maybe Fawful. (And I guess Paper Mario, if we're counting him.)

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

To act like it's some obscure RPG nobody played is just kind of disingenuous IMO and it bothers me a lot when people say that about a game that's actually super popular for how admittedly remote it is.

Not to be too argumentative, but I don't see how you can ADMIT a game is remote, but then say "you're wrong to call it niche". There's a difference between a game being a niche title that is largely divorced from mainstream conversation and it being "some obscure RPG nobody played", which I think is a somewhat unfair mischaracterization of my statement.

As for Geno's popularity in general... if you have to temper statements about his popularity with qualifiers like "most popular one-off Mario character", I feel like that doesn't exactly bolster any argument about him being someone in consideration by non-speculators. There's a world of difference between him being known as a requested character among Smash fans, and him being an overwhelmingly-recognized and requested character among average consumers the way Master Chief or Sora are.

Again, none of this is said to downplay how awesome his inclusion would be, or how likely it is. I just think being honest/accurate about the circumstances is important.

 

[Zema]

As a relative newcomer to this thread, the amount of smug condescension and general toxicity found here by some users is INSANE to me.

I talked to someone in a Smash FB group recently that said they didn't want Banjo in Smash solely because of the way certain Banjo fans had treated him for wanting Steve in. I thought that logic was ridiculous until I started paying attention to this thread. Some of the posts here seem hellbent on driving away anyone not intensely indoctrinated into the Cult Of Geno. This is NOT how you go about winning supporters. This is how you tank your cause. Engaging in or tolerating this behavior will only lead to the stigmatization of Geno's fanbase, to the point that his supporters will be typecast as toxic, unreasonable buttholes who shouldn't get their way.

As for the whole "Geno has a fandom!" thing...

As someone who wants Viewtiful Joe in the game (not as much as Rayman or Geno, but I think it'd be cool), I can still be realistic and honest. Joe may have supporters, and a fandom, but OUTSIDE THAT BUBBLE, there's no huge push from the mainstream to see him in Smash.

Geno is heavily requested by his fandom and the Smash community in general, but realistically, to the AVERAGE CONSUMER not engaged in Smash newcomer speculation (aka 99% of the people who will buy Smash DLC) , he is a Literal Who. RPG is a beloved classic for those who played it, but it's still a sole, niche title from decades ago, and Geno is a secondary character from that one game, who hasn't appeared in a major fashion since that title.

Geno isn't a character your AVERAGE CONSUMER wants in Smash, or gives a **** about. The characters your average consumer want or would care about getting into Smash are like... Master Chief, Sora, Crash, maybe Lara Croft.

I don't say any of this to crap on Geno as a character, or to say he has no chance, or to say he has no support, or that people shouldn't want/hope for him to be in. Hell, I'm among those people! But denying the reality of the circumstances surrounding this topic is not helpful or constructive. And being so toxic to those more willing to properly assess the situation or point out these issues is similairly unhelpful.

I understand the argument being made here, but being a "Literal Who" hasn't really stopped a lot of characters from entering Smash. Example: R.O.B., Pit, Ice Climbers, Marth (at the time of his inclusion), Roy (even more so), Hell, even The Hero could count as a Literally Who for Western Smash players.

At any rate, I've never really liked the idea that the Smash roster should only include characters people know. That's boring. And predictable. Kid Icarus wouldn't have had a revival if it hadn't been for Smash. Besides, a lot of characters that don't really have anywhere for their franchises to go can have a new life through Smash Bros - think of Captain Falcon or Ice Climbers, who are arguably more Smash Bros characters than F-Zero or Ice Climber characters.

Geno has a very low chance to get in, but it's not because of popularity, in my opinion. He has plenty of it, and Sakurai's admission of his desire to have him as a playable character in Brawl is actually extremely good for his chances regardless of how his popularity changes in the future. No, Geno has very little chances because I get the impression Square Enix is insanely difficult to work with.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something to point out is that SMRPG didn't release in the UK till the VC. So it wasn't known worldwide all that well. I personally felt for a Mario game, it was somewhat obscure, but that was before the worldwide release. Niche isn't really an inaccurate term. It's not that well known of a game, cult classic aside, so it's understandable to call it niche. It fits to a more specific demographic(a part of what something being niche is. Or basically it isn't going to be a game that'll easily sell to everyone. A lot of traditional fighting games are niche due to being difficult to get into cause of the special controls. It's akin to that when one says niche).

Also, the Hero class isn't a literal Who in the US. It's just Erdrick that is, especially among the four Heroes we got. Eight, Luminary, and Solo are known far better worldwide in comparison. DQ is easily niche(but isn't that unknown even then) in the US, but it certainly has a reasonable amount of fans. I don't know if it was mentioned about Sakurai's column, but he actually said Eight was a request by the Western fanbase.

Also, some posts are being gone over, but let's make this very very clear; We will not tolerate users going out of their way to make other users leave this thread. That's bullying and will be taken care of. Yes, the last few pages are being looked into. It was reported a few days ago, but things weren't simple enough to fix it in one quick shot. The situation isn't that clear on how to handle as there's a lot of protocols and things to deal with. But basically, no, never try to drive another user out. If you believe someone is trolling, report it. Also, for the record, having a negative opinion on a character does not count as trolling in itself. Things like tone along with the argument made is very important too. Let's be respectful to all opinions, even ones you disagree with.

(I'm leaving for work, so I can't simply just reply for another 5 or so hours).

 

[GrungeMan]

the toxicity (of our city)

You, what do you own the world?!

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Probably late to the party but the recent Sakurai article in Famitsu is encouraging. Some of the highlights:

-Basically agreed that Hero and Banjo were super hard to get in theory but both companies were cooperative when it was seen that Sakurai and Nintendo wanted them.

-"Eight" was added as one of Hero's Alts basically because of Western demand.

-Sakurai recognizing the longevity of Banjo requests and how they went back to the N64 days.

-Apparently the Dragon Quest Heros aren't supposed to appear with each other in games, let alone fight each other. Sakurai somehow managed to negotiate this to please fans and break what's essentially a 30 year rule for the series.

All in all, a good read and piles on the evidence that if Sakurai wants something, he'll probably get it and his main motivator for adding things is usually fan demand.

You have to hope this means he is starting to realize that it feels much better to just add heavily demanded fan favorites and get an overwhelmingly positive reaction instead of trying to outsmart the fans and give them a character no one was really thinking of/asking for.

I appreciate his efforts to not be predictable, but there are times it comes at the cost of the quality of the roster. Working hard on shill characters or oddball characters and then seeing people just rage at him has to take a toll. There has been much more of a balance in the quality of the newcomers for Ultimate and it really gives me positive vibes this round of speculation

 

[SoopahSanikMoo]

what you dudes been up to lately? i just bought Final Fantasy 10 and i'm playing it for the first time

 

[Megadoomer]

what you dudes been up to lately? i just bought Final Fantasy 10 and i'm playing it for the first time

I've been looking after my brother's dog and playing through Okami; I just beat the game yesterday. It's been a fairly relaxed week for me - work is slowing down, so I've got more free time.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

I think part of the reason people might be on edge is that we are in a semi-un certain stage of the Smash Ultimate DLC run.

There's many things going for Geno but there's also many for other characters as well. This is in a way, GOOD, because there's no way of telling who are the last two characters of this pass OR if there's something more at the end of the proverbial rainbow. (In a way, the colors representing the characters)

Why people might give opinions on why this character is "worthy" or not might depend on their preference. Seriously like, I have went to MANY threads of support of characters and in every one of them there's people thinking that the character of that thread is plausible or will happen or whatever but there's no way of knowing.

But I will say this. After seeing those threads of characters, that while I actually do not mind and might be pleased to see since there's quite a few that would be awesome but Geno ranks higher for me at this point, I don't go in those places saying that the character is "unworthy" or "not possible" or a "pipe dream" because I want people to have as much hope for their characters like us do with Geno.

They have their reasons for wanting those characters, we have our own. They have expectations and so do we.

Instead of going off on each other or to other supporters, we should strive to UNDERSTAND each other on our wishes on a specific character and not bring the support down.

Everyone likes things for a reason and they shouldn't be told that they can't to support a "point". Like someone said on this page, just decide to agree to disagree and move on.

Just my $0.02 on the matter of these last couple of pages.

.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm gonna be honest for a minute if you all don't mind but we definitely need to change up some things regarding this whole thread and how we treat outsiders with differing opinions it's not just that this new guy came in and we scared him away cause we're ambivalent towards new people joining the discussion but I've seen this happen multiple times throughout the recent months. We either think someone is trolling or stupid if someone comes in here with little to no knowledge of Geno but wants to talk about him which if we treat people who don't have a lot of knowledge towards Geno that way which is a lot of people it just adds up to us not getting as many supporters or as many people here than we should or could.

This isn't how the Geno fanbase should act. Our character is niche and while we're big in the Smash Community Geno isn't very recognized outside of it so we should understand why someone may not have a lot of knowledge on why someone would want Geno, How much Moveset potential Geno really has and what makes Geno Special. Just cause someone has a different opinion than us doesn't mean they're a troll they're just not informed or have much knowledge on the topic and I for one understand that.

We should change this before this impacts the fanbase of Geno in the long run and we should change this not only for that but because behind the screens we're all human so we should treat each other as such.

So I for one am sorry to anyone we drove out and we need to change this.

I'm happy there are those of you that want to tackle this before it becomes a real issue, take it from a Ridley fan, everybody loses when a fanbase adopts the 'us against everyone else' mentality. I know not everyone comes into this thread with an open mind, and by the gods do I know it gets tiring having to explain the same thing for the thousandth time, but the only way to make things work is to keep cool, otherwise the fanbase will not only get a bad reputation, but the community itself will eventually suffer the consequences too.

A lot of my fellow Ridley supporters were embarrased by how things ended up with Smash 4, and rightfully so, I was too, we made a hell of a lot of enemies during the whole Pyrosphere teasing and speculation, so when he was finally deconfirmed for good you can bet ya all those we had previously pushed away came back and added fuel to the fire. The price we paid for the resulting ****show was that Ridley discussions were banned from the newcomer speculation forum, and while it's unlikely Geno's situation will escalate that far, the only way to make sure this and future Geno threads won't have to be kept under strict moderation is by stopping the issues early, and not just because Geno can't afford having his support muted given how dependant he is on it, but above all because of common human decency. I think this is especially worth remembering if Geno's Mii costume comes with Hero, I know a lot of his supporters here won't consider it the nail in his coffin, but chances are you'll be getting a lot of guests who think that's the case, so if that happens it's incredibly important that you guys keep things under control and don't lose your heads.

Speculation is supposed to be fun, it's about sharing passions, building communities and sticking together even when things don't work out, you want to make good memories from it, not end up being ashamed about how it all turned out. If Geno doesn't make it, I hope his fanbase still conducts themselves well in the moment, disappointment would be natural and inevitable, but there really is no worse way to close off speculation than setting the house on fire on your way out.

 

[Ovaltine]

Seeing a lot of the responses and two cents people are pitching in here warms my heart. I know the Geno fan base has its ups and downs, its bad apples, and its very embarrassing moments, but it just goes to show how many of us want a peaceful environment where we can express and share our passion for SMRPG and our star boy. It really does my heart good. I was ridiculously angry yesterday about everything that happened, not gonna lie, and I am still feeling that disappointment... but everyone pooling together is lifting my spirits.

Always remember: be kind to one another.

(Also, my favorite cake is Carvel ice cream cake all the way!)