Social General Ice Climber Chat

[OddishGuy]

First of all THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I couldn't find this information anywhere. Secondly, do you know the frame data for the third method? (which I quoted)

IIRC it was a 4 frame window with the Y-value threshold being -0.7000. I'll test it tonight and come edit this comment if I was wrong.

 

[Gerardito]

IIRC it was a 4 frame window with the Y-value threshold being -0.7000. I'll test it tonight and come edit this comment if I was wrong.

Thank you so much!! Im starting to get super consistent with this.

And since we're talking frame data, may I ask you a couple of frame data questions?

I'm looking for frame data for:

1) Perfectly equidistant ice blocks
2) Turnaround F-tilt desync - Popo Ice block

Thank you very much in advance!!

 

[OddishGuy]

Thank you so much!! Im starting to get super consistent with this.

And since we're talking frame data, may I ask you a couple of frame data questions?

I'm looking for frame data for:

1) Perfectly equidistant ice blocks
2) Turnaround F-tilt desync - Popo Ice block

Thank you very much in advance!!

Iceblock is around 60 frames so you'd aim to get one out every 30 frames while desynched to keep them equidistant. You have to account for Nana's 6 frame delay of course.
Generally you should be doing SH iceblocks, I made a small comment about that a while back.

F-tilt guard desynch into Popo iceblock is like a 2 frame window. It works because iceblock activates F-tilt's IASA but not jab's IASA. So even though Nana is essentially actionable sooner than Popo, she is stuck because she's unable to be actionable with iceblock. If you want Nana iceblock tho you can walk, crouch, or SH iceblock well before Popo can.

 

[Brdwthacgr]

ive recently found out by myself a reliable and consistent method to dash dance desync nana, i cant find any information about it but im still checking in here before i make a thread on it. anyways, my method uses a very specific timing of dashing forward, and then back about halfway through, and then immediately forwards again into a blizzard. this has nana do a blizzard instantly afterward and in the same place as popo. i have a low-quality video of me doing it as well so if yall wanna see it then ill show.

 

[OddishGuy]

ive recently found out by myself a reliable and consistent method to dash dance desync nana, i cant find any information about it but im still checking in here before i make a thread on it. anyways, my method uses a very specific timing of dashing forward, and then back about halfway through, and then immediately forwards again into a blizzard. this has nana do a blizzard instantly afterward and in the same place as popo. i have a low-quality video of me doing it as well so if yall wanna see it then ill show.

This is the traditional dashdance desynch. You can see it in this thread, I think it's the 3rd one. https://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-treat-your-opponents-even-more-coldly.53912/

 

[Brdwthacgr]

This is the traditional dashdance desynch. You can see it in this thread, I think it's the 3rd one. https://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-treat-your-opponents-even-more-coldly.53912/

thanks, i couldnt find this mentioned through google anywhere. i do alot of testing by myself instead of looking at guides so often i think i've found something unique when i really havent

 

[scaevola]

Hi everybody!!!

Like UCF is more and more used in tournament, I wondered if it's really useful for IC to use it?
Also does it affect Nana's behavior? And how?

Thank you

 

[Applebutter61]

Are we talking about brawl ice climbers or melee ice climbers?

 

[scaevola]

Applebutter61 If it's for me, it's melee Ice climbers.

 

[Applebutter61]

For me it would be Brawl Ice climbers. There chain grabbing is OP

Edit: *Their

 

[OddishGuy]

Hi everybody!!!

Like UCF is more and more used in tournament, I wondered if it's really useful for IC to use it?
Also does it affect Nana's behavior? And how?

Thank you

Downsides to UCF are everyone can now do late aerial -> dashback for more consistently safe attacks on shield where they had to use spotdodges or jabs before. Shield drops mean platform camping is slightly easier/better.

Anyone who had a good controller could already do this against us though so the downsides don't matter that much IMO.

The upside is that we can now consistently dashback out of stand during reaction tech-chases -> wobble. We can now consistently smash-turn -> Bair out of wavedash which is really solid, We can also smash turn wavedash back for things like quick ledge-grabs. All this could be done with buffered walks or a good controller but it's still neat to not have to learn that or potentially waste frames.
We get consistent smashturn desynchs and ish too which is cool. Voorhees recently wrote a bit about that on Reddit.

Shield drops with ICs are typically bad. That said, Nana's shield drop values are 1 off from Popo's, so most of the time if you notch a controller you have 3 different angles that shield drop so making the notch is pretty easy, but with ICs we only have 2. Widening the shield drop values technically makes ours go from hard to easy while other characters go from pretty easy to easy. So that's neat, but once again you'll mostly use shield drops for movement rather than actual counter attacks.

Jab cancels are really good, and jab cancels are made really easy by jab cancel notches. The problem is that making jab cancel notches with shield drop notches is hard unless you're Kadano. UCF makes shield drop notches unneeded, so we can all have jab cancel notches and use our top tier jab cancels more.

Honestly I think we're one of the most buffed characters from UCF at mid/high level. But at low level when you just really want people making mistakes -> getting grabbed, UCF can be annoying for an IC to deal with.

 

[choknater]

sup guys how's it going

 

[Smasher89]

Played once this year, lost to someone I usually beat, that said, played winners to gain knowledge with another character to be able to just rely on knowledge and no techskill, and it would help in the harder matchups too, basicly playing like brawl in melee which I think can be solid as I rarely play with people (or solopractice) anymore. Slap city Ive played more though (steam), usually find something they patch later with each session.

 

[hebona]

been trying to stop nana from goin out of sync when i dont want her to & working on movement. last 6 months, huge improvements on my performance but still underperform against falco of all characters.

so movement and spacing (somewhat)

chok you still competing?

 

[Playn]

I'm looking for information on a specific method of grabbing the ledge. Chu used it in one of his recent sets against Ice, after looking like he flubbed edgeguards a few times trying to set this ledge grab up.

I believe Chu dashed towards the edge, then dashed back and shielded. Nana grabbed the ledge, while Popo was onstage shielding.

When I tried to recreate this, I succeeded once on a fluke. But usually Nana jumped onstage instead of grabbing the ledge.

This edgeguard looked like it took longer to set up than slip-hogging, but allowed Popo to be actionable onstage sooner.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm looking for information on a specific method of grabbing the ledge. Chu used it in one of his recent sets against Ice, after looking like he flubbed edgeguards a few times trying to set this ledge grab up.

I believe Chu dashed towards the edge, then dashed back and shielded. Nana grabbed the ledge, while Popo was onstage shielding.

When I tried to recreate this, I succeeded once on a fluke. But usually Nana jumped onstage instead of grabbing the ledge.

This edgeguard looked like it took longer to set up than slip-hogging, but allowed Popo to be actionable onstage sooner.

The best way to perform this edgehog is:

- Dash for 13 frames in initial direction
- Pivot
- Shield ASAP

It doesn't have to be frame perfect, but these inputs will maximize the distance Nana slides in her shield, making the spacing more lenient to get her to slip off the stage. Some things that can reduce Nana's slide:

- If you shield before frame 14, Nana will still be in her initial dash animation, causing her to shield stop
- If you let go of the control stick during the initial dash, Popo and Nana will decelerate a bit every frame. You can let go of the stick to prevent Popo from entering run on frame 14, which makes the timing more lenient and can allow you to adjust your spacing, but keep in mind that you want to hold forward for as long as possible (since this maximizes your initial dash velocity)
- If you pivot before frame 13 of the initial dash, you will have to keep dashing in the reverse direction until Nana enters run. When this happens, Nana will effectively be "moonwalking" (dashing in one direction while holding the opposite direction), causing her to decelerate twice as fast as she would if you let go of the control stick. This is bad, since your goal is to for her forward velocity to be as high as possible when she starts shielding.

So to summarize: You want to dash and hold forward for as close to 13 frames as possible. If you need to dash for longer because you are too far away from the ledge (or just because you want some more leniency in timing the pivot), you can let go of the control stick, which will prevent Popo from entering run on frame 14. You can also pivot earlier if you are too close to the ledge, but the earlier you do it, the less Nana will slide. And you always want to shield as soon as possible after the pivot.

I think it's very easy to perform from a given position if you know the inputs. Knowing the spacing is a bit trickier, especially if you are scrambling from far away to get to the ledge as quickly as possible.