General Feedback and Ideas Thread

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#1
Member feedback for the leaders and higher-ups (Marc, JV, etc).

Post anything you think we aren't doing quite as well as we could, and if it's reasonable, we will act on it. You can expect to see any pressing and relevant queries answered properly.

Any ideas at all will also go here, please post as you will.
 

SheerMadness

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#2
I still think we should atleast be able to view the applications WHILE the admission process is still in review, not AFTER. Not sure why you guys didn't want us to see them?

That and the induction of s2j is the only complaints I have of the leaders. Other than those 2 issues you guys have done great.
 

SheerMadness

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#5
It's a feedback thread Surri. No reason to get offended over the issues we bring up. Were definitely not making a big deal out of anything I don't think. This feedback thread isn't going to work if everyone is going to be offended at issued brought up.

We just fail to see what the backroom gains by hiding the applications from everyone but the leaders.
 
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#6
I'm not offended im just wondering why this is such a big deal to you guys.

people are allowed to release their apps so really it's a matter of us choosing to keep the privacy of those who dont wish to show them.
 

firo

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#7
I think the doctrine needs to be rewritten before anything gets done. I'm sensing a general lack of direction and a well organized doctrine will solve that.

I posted this in Koro's thread, but I don't like the way the character matchups are being handled. When we applied, it was asked about what areas of SSB we were expected to contribute on. As many have said, this is not just a group of "elite players" so having the discussion open seems to be less efficient to me. If it were me, I'd have players who were confident enough to contribute (based on what they said in their applications) be assigned matchups to be due at a certain deadline by the leaders. Only the mathcup ratio and maybe a short writeup would be required. The way the matchups are being discussed now, it will take forever to complete.

I don't care really about leader secrecy or anything, as long as things get done. I posted some questions about the site-server relationship in Koro's thread, but that was closed. It would be helpful if the higher-ups read it and contacted me.
 
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#8
I still think we should atleast be able to view the applications WHILE the admission process is still in review, not AFTER. Not sure why you guys didn't want us to see them?

That and the induction of s2j is the only complaints I have of the leaders. Other than those 2 issues you guys have done great.
FWIW s2j had his backroom privileges revoked as punishment for trolling. I'm not sure how/if he can get them back.

I agree that we should all have a voice for the applications. Whether we see them or not is not going to change disagreement. It doesn't have to be a democracy; the decision power can still be held by the leaders, but given that we're here because our views are viewed as valuable, I feel that we should be given a larger voice to the issue.
 

SheerMadness

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#9
I feel that the more people who see the applications and have a voice in it the better chance we have to include the best applicants and avoid s2j like situations.

Asianaussie said something like he doesn't want us to see them because we may be biased. Honestly theres a far better chance to weed out any bias if all the backroom members see the apps opposed to if only the 3 leaders do.

I have a feeling that the leaders might take offense to me brining up the s2j induction more than once. I hope they don't as it's not meant to call them out. Everyone else in the backroom is definitely deserving.
 
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#10
I'm not offended im just wondering why this is such a big deal to you guys.

people are allowed to release their apps so really it's a matter of us choosing to keep the privacy of those who dont wish to show them.
Why is it such a big deal to you? It's nice to read people's stories about how they got into smash and stuff.

What privacy are you talking about? People need to have privacy from the back room when applying to the back room? What is there even to be private about in those questions?
 
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#11
Alright, I think that next time application happens apps should be posted publicly if the applicant consents. I'll mention this in the application thread if it happens - an option regarding whether they are happy for the BRoom members to see the app will be included. There simply isn't a reason not to show them, especially now that about 90% of all the legitimately contributing posters are in here. This doesn't mean you get to vote people in or out - just give comments, etc, because I still feel there needs to be some executive decision involved.

Sheer, you took what I said out of context, I said that if you were to see them you would have to be aware of any bias you had, not that your bias was the reason stopping us from posting them.

I honestly have no issue with s2j, but I can see where you're coming from. To be honest, I felt that Zen Yore, Hammerheart and even Near were worse than him when it came to trolling in 64. s2j was punished for stuff in the melee boards and hence was not allowed to hold his 64 BRoom title.
 

SilentSlayers

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#13
With the fluff cut out it is MUCH better. It was a good read for me as to understand how serious this is. The only thing that concerned/confused me is:

A BRoomer member should be:

"Well versed in aspects of running a tournament"

Sorry, but this not me. I have never run a tournament. I have entered small online tournaments, but nothing special.
 
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#14
It's supposed to be an aid to establishing rulesets. The current ruleset was written almost completely by me, and I've never run a successful tournament, if that matters.

I'll add something about these being possible and desired attributes rather than necessities.
 
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#15
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before but I'm not a fan of these "matchup ratios" for several reasons. They aren't really based on anything except handwaving, don't represent anything concrete, and the numbers imply precision that isn't there. I'm much in favor of discussing matchups on the basis of even, advantage, large advantage as in that matchup chart from last year. The broadness of categories makes it a lot easier to take stuff like varying strategies, playstyles, and stages into account. It focuses more on the "take home message" rather than nitpicky details that you can't really argue with any certainty.
 
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#16
You'd like complete removal of the numerical ratios? I'm alright with that, since you've given legitimate reasoning for it (and it's rather arbitrary regardless).

I'll leave it up to each thread's manager.
 
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#17
Why is it such a big deal to you? It's nice to read people's stories about how they got into smash and stuff.

What privacy are you talking about? People need to have privacy from the back room when applying to the back room? What is there even to be private about in those questions?
I wanna just say im not "mad" or anything, i only say this because i realize my posts may have put off more "negative" of a feel then i intended.


anyways...

The privacy im talking about is a person not wanting you to read their application, and them having a right to do so.

I'm in agreement about letting them become public with consent of the writer, but then again thats what we already have isn't it? Or kinda anyways.


I think the doctrine needs to be rewritten before anything gets done. I'm sensing a general lack of direction and a well organized doctrine will solve that.

I posted this in Koro's thread, but I don't like the way the character matchups are being handled. When we applied, it was asked about what areas of SSB we were expected to contribute on. As many have said, this is not just a group of "elite players" so having the discussion open seems to be less efficient to me. If it were me, I'd have players who were confident enough to contribute (based on what they said in their applications) be assigned matchups to be due at a certain deadline by the leaders. Only the mathcup ratio and maybe a short writeup would be required. The way the matchups are being discussed now, it will take forever to complete.

I don't care really about leader secrecy or anything, as long as things get done. I posted some questions about the site-server relationship in Koro's thread, but that was closed. It would be helpful if the higher-ups read it and contacted me.

Using project groups for the char discussions may hinder an already slow process but i definitely agree we should follow the typical BR lay-out more regarding how we do things.
 
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#18
Surri, I'll add a question in the next series of apps regarding confidentiality, that way we get their consent or lack thereof.

I think it's pretty simple to set up projects.

Eg. Who wants to help me with the Pika matchups? You have to write a short Pika vs character analysis skeleton, due by this Sunday. It will be posted and discussed until it is fleshed out.

At least something will happen, and people get to help with the character they know something about/are interested in.
 
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#20
I wanna just say im not "mad" or anything, i only say this because i realize my posts may have put off more "negative" of a feel then i intended.


anyways...

The privacy im talking about is a person not wanting you to read their application, and them having a right to do so.
Yes, they have a right for no one to see their apps. However, for it to even be an application at all, SOMEONE must see it. And when you're applying for the back room, it makes sense that the back room would get to see it.

Do people even know that only the leaders were looking at applications? I would assume that the backroom gets to see it, but that's just me.
 
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#21
Well when i apply for a job i REALLY dont expect (and would rather not) have every employee see it...but perhaps that analogy is to far out there considering jobs and employment are obviously far different then the BR systems but thats just how i see it.
 
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#24
If I send an application to three specific group leaders by PM, I don't assume everyone in the group will see it. I don't know where you're pulling that logic from. Stop pressing this point, it has been addressed and will be a significant point in the next round of applications.
 

SheerMadness

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#25
The point is that we would like to be part of the application reviewing process. We are not fully a part of it if the applicant has the option to not let us see it.

If you look at it from our angle it really seems like you guys are pressing the confidentiality option to keep us from being part of the process.

Every back room member I've seen who has expressed their opinion on it wants to be able to see the apps and voice their opinions on it. Except the leaders, who want to give the applicant the option to hide it from us for some reason.

I agree with community thing. If they want to be part of this community they should have nothing to hide from us. We should see the apps.

This is a feedback discussion thread, not sure why you guys are getting uptight about us wanting to discuss/debate this issue. That's what this thread IS for right?? And it's why the backroom is here, to get great discussion/debate going.
 
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#26
Are you guys completely ignoring my compromise?

I already said, a question like this

Are you willing to have your application posted publicly in the backroom for member feedback?

will be posted in the next application round. I regret nothing happened this round, but if you aren't happy with this, what do you want me to do, evict everyone and reopen admissions?

I understand what you want and I've already decided to integrate that into the next admissions. If they respond 'yes' it will be posted, if they respond 'no' only their name will be posted and their app given only the the Head Council to see. It is perfectly reasonable to want some privacy, so I intend to respect that. If they are fine with letting the app be seen, you will see it.
 

SheerMadness

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#27
Were not ignoring anything. We just don't necessarily agree with your compromise.

IMO in a perfect backroom each member would get to vote on the applicants with leaders votes counting significantly more than the average member. I mean that's how the great communities of the world function right? Each member gets a vote.

But I doubt you guys would ever agree to that so our compromise is that we at least get to see the apps and voice our opinions on them. Basically neither side likes the other's compromise.

That's just my opinion which I'm happy to voice. In the end you leaders have the power though so you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

It's not a huge deal anyway. :)
 
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#28
Maybe everyone in management :p

Isn't the BR a job?

It isn't meant to be a cool place for us to chill and relate and be friends.
No it's pretty common to pass resumes around or even to have everyone from the team interview a candidate.

By the way, I don't care about voting rights or anything, I just want to see people's applications because I might learn something.

Heck, the melee back room had applications completely public to everyone.


Also asianaussie, PMing the leaders and having them post the apps in the back room would make perfect sense from the applicant's POV. As an applicant I wouldn't expect to have to individually PM 12 different people.
 

SheerMadness

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#29
Woah, the melee back room does indeed let the general smashboards public view the applications. Interesting.

Maybe we should have an ssb64 backroom app thread in the general ssb64 forum so everyone can look at apps too...

*watches the leaders cringe*

Haha just joking with you guys.
 
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#30
That's how far I'm honestly willing to go. I'll post the apps that answer yes to the above question to critique, but I don't think giving every member a vote is necessary. Democracy is one thing, but I would rather treat every member the same, as the only members who voted the first round in were the three of us, and continually adding judges each round just adds random bias, and isn't fair to those who weren't in during the earlier rounds.

@ ballin, as an applicant I wouldn't expect every employee at my prospective place of employment to look at my CV - I would be fine with the management and directing officers to have a look, but not everybody. I don't know what it's like up where you are, but that's how my job applications happened, and I didn't expect it any other way.

I would rather you didn't use the other backrooms as examples, as we've deviated quite far from their running structure already. The normal process for the melee and brawl backrooms doesn't even involve an open apps process, just a nominated director choosing good candidates for the 'head council' to vote on. It's the fact that a huge restructure took place that creates this particular example, and even then only one or two melee broom heads decided who was in.

lol broomheads
 
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#31
@ ballin, as an applicant I wouldn't expect every employee at my prospective place of employment to look at my CV - I would be fine with the management and directing officers to have a look, but not everybody. I don't know what it's like up where you are, but that's how my job applications happened, and I didn't expect it any other way.
I'm not saying every employee ... that obviously doesn't make sense for large corporations with thousands of employees. I'm saying if you apply to a particular group that has 5 people in it, those 5 people will often get to take a look at your resume, conduct an interview, etc.
 
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#32
Woah, the melee back room does indeed let the general smashboards public view the applications. Interesting.

Maybe we should have an ssb64 backroom app thread in the general ssb64 forum so everyone can look at apps too...

*watches the leaders cringe*

Haha just joking with you guys.
Lol didn't i see you guys complaining about the similarities in another thread JUST yesterday? :p
 

SheerMadness

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#33
What do you mean surri?

Anyway we've done everything we can to voice our opinion that we would like to be part of the reviewing process. You guys clearly don't want that to fully happen. So I'll be done discussing the issue. I gave it my best shot.
 

Mahie

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#34
I'm not sure why anyone would want to hide their smash bros. history ? It's not like you have to talk about your love life in your application. If you want to make a post with every application from the 2nd round, you have the green light for mine.
 

SheerMadness

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#36
We don't see why they should have the option to hide their apps from us in the first place. Their applying to be part of a select video game community, what is there to hide? Also it seems a tad ridiculous that the melee backroom lets the general smashboards public view the apps while the ssb64 backroom won't even let members see them without consent.

I don't understand why asianaussie keeps bringing up bias. It's fact that there is a better chance of negating any bias with the MORE people who see the apps than if it's just you 3. Seems like you've got it opposite to me.

Again this isn't a huge deal and you guys are gonna do what you wanna do but it's fun to discuss our opinions. Which the thread is for.
 
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#37
WTFFFFFFFFFF

obviously SOMEONE is reading the apps or they wouldn't be applications. You're telling me that there's stuff in the applications that people specifically want to tell the 3 leaders but definitely not anyone else?

And once again, it's not like you said ONLY THESE 3 PEOPLE WILL EVER SEE THE APPS


I'm not mad about not seeing the apps, but I'm kinda WTF about the insane troll logic justification
 
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#38
obviously SOMEONE is reading the apps or they wouldn't be applications. You're telling me that there's stuff in the applications that people specifically want to tell the 3 leaders but definitely not anyone else?
I'm not mad about not seeing the apps, but I'm kinda WTF about the insane troll logic justification
You're (again) blowing this way out of proportion. You're acting as if people are not allowed to not want you to see things, while allowing others too. What it is doesn't matter, why it is doesn't matter. It's their privacy and they are allowed to it.

This is not a TROLL logic either...these kind of comments are not needed and disrespectful.
 

SilentSlayers

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#39
WTFFFFFFFFFF

obviously SOMEONE is reading the apps or they wouldn't be applications. You're telling me that there's stuff in the applications that people specifically want to tell the 3 leaders but definitely not anyone else?

And once again, it's not like you said ONLY THESE 3 PEOPLE WILL EVER SEE THE APPS


I'm not mad about not seeing the apps, but I'm kinda WTF about the insane troll logic justification
Yeah it's not troll logic, come on. If they want privacy, they should be entitled to it I think.
 
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#40
Oh hey look what I found:


Hi again. This is the second round of admissions for the 64 Backroom. The application process will again be conducted via PM, so please do not post your application in this thread. It is highly recommended that PMs are sent to all 3 Backroom Leaders (SuPeRbOoM, asianaussie, and Surri-Sama). Please note that your applications will likely be posted in the backroom itself for critique, so you aren't trying just to show off to the leaders, but also to the current members. As to how much weight each individual member has on the vote...that's a secret :cool:

edit: so this

If I send an application to three specific group leaders by PM, I don't assume everyone in the group will see it. I don't know where you're pulling that logic from. Stop pressing this point, it has been addressed and will be a significant point in the next round of applications.
does not compute
 
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