Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[DLA]

Yeah I won a tourney with Ganon a month ago too lol. We've elected a black president and killed osama bin laden too, in case you've also missed those.

 

[Bloodynite]

Yeah I won Apex 2012 too a few months ago. We also discovered vikings on the moon and that dividing by 0 equals eternal life

 

[Xubble]

Did you guys hear that there's gonna be a new Nintendo system called the Wii U? I hope there's a Smash Bros. game for it!

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'm going to a tournament this saturday, planning on going Ganon all the way, and may pop out a secondary if needed.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Playing Dueler X this weekend, let's see how this goes

 

[Heartstring]

...First european ganon victory!
and it didnt happen, I did well put people decided it was enough and i got falco'd and ic'd

Did you guys hear that there's gonna be a new Nintendo system called the Wii U? I hope there's a Smash Bros. game for it!

slowpoke.jpg
reggie confirmed a new smash bros game for it

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Smash 4 has been in development for about a month

 

[Xubble]

Considering that Sakurai won't start until Kid Icarus: Uprising is out, I'd say development won't start for another month.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Except for how he announced smash 4 is in development about a month ago.
Kid Icarus is done, just waiting to be released.
Plus it's probably out in Japan.

 

[Fuujin]

We've elected a black president

Eaux....

This comment...

 

[DLA]

Eaux....

This comment...

I don't get it

 

[Blubolouis]

Playing Dueler X this weekend, let's see how this goes

He's bad

make him save some replays for once, though !

 

[Xubble]

Except for how he announced smash 4 is in development about a month ago.
Kid Icarus is done, just waiting to be released.
Plus it's probably out in Japan.

Show me this announcement.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

After researching a bit more, I saw what he meant by in development.
He's not programming now by any means, but he's been tweeting about looking over the smash dojo to remember how he made such a game.

He's in the thought process of development now.

 

[Heartstring]

He's bad

make him save some replays for once, though !

so much for friends XD

also guys! i got street figher x tekken today, And holy **** on a ****, marduk has a ganon stomp!

 

[Bloodynite]

For some reason i can't help but feel that the ganon boards is a representation of Hangar 18

 

[~ Gheb ~]

make him save some replays for once, though !

Didn't happen but we played a couple of games Ganon vs GW. Not seeing it as -3 at all based on that and I don't get why Verm would refer to him when it comes to the match-up. I must be missing something :x

 

[Vermanubis]

Didn't happen but we played a couple of games Ganon vs GW. Not seeing it as -3 at all based on that and I don't get why Verm would refer to him when it comes to the match-up. I must be missing something :x

Probably because they were friendlies, I'm guessing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm assuming he didn't take a ~10 hour drive just to sandbag the people he gets to play. Just guessing though.

He also told me you destroyed him

 

[DLA]

Nothing against either of them but Dueler X didn't seem to know the Ganon matchup when I watched his pools match with Verm. Just because you play Ganondorf as a secondary, doesn't mean that you know how to fight Ganondorf. Dueler X whiffed moves and unsafely attacked the shield way too many times and got punished for it way too many times. And IIRC their set still game down to game 3 last hit. G&Ws that know how to fight Ganon really shouldn't lose...and it's not even about having exp in the matchup either. It's about having common sense and applying it.

For example when I fought Valdens in Rd 2 pools at Genesis 2, I literally 0-deathed him the very first stock. I think I 2-stocked him game 1. But then he realized "hey, Ganon can't punish half of my moveset...so why am I letting him
punish me?" So he started playing a lot safer and ended up beating me pretty badly game 2 and 3. He even said after the match "Wow that's a really bad matchup for Ganon," because he realized how little Ganon can really do against G&W after he stopped letting himself get punished.

 

[Vermanubis]

That's what Dueler did. I beat him soundly game one, then game two at Lylat, I'm sure you guys noticed that he learned just what UAir and BAir could do. The game didn't last almost 6:30 because of incompetence on either end. When he made mistakes, he made big ones, but for the most part, he abused a lot of what makes the MU difficult. Vex was actually the first one to point out his extremely safe habits, and I think we can all agree that Vex's observations can be taken into consideration. Also, it only went to game two, since I won on his CP.

I'm assuming he didn't take a ~10 hour drive just to sandbag the people he gets to play. Just guessing though.

He also told me you destroyed him

I wouldn't say I destroyed him, but even in the event I did, he still had extremely safe habits that I guess I was just about to get around. Like I said above, Vex was the first one to point it out when he played him. And I'm not saying he sandbagged, but I've never met a person who drew matches out for 6 minutes in friendlies. The object in friendlies is to win, but the means to the win is often radically different from that in tourney.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

One of our matches took like 5:30+ minutes because I focused on avoiding every hit possible. It also went to last hit. I get your point tho [but I don't use Ganon in tourney yet so next time I fight a competent GW I guess I have to make it a MM]. He told me that he found it almost impossible to get a kill in except weak hit fair gimps [which is the main reason GW wins it in my book] and he literally said "he destroyed me" when I asked him how his games with Verm went.

DLA, can you be a bit more concrete? The way it sounds when you describe the match-up I have the impression that you're doing things I'd advice not doing [I guess it sounds a bit pretentious coming from me >_>]

GW is a very backwards match-up to play and you will most certainly lose if you're trying to play the bait + punish game or attempt to read the player's defensive decisions he does after using an attack. It's true that they appear to be very safe and that there's no way to reliably punish them but imho that's not what you're supposed to do anyway.
The window for punishment against GW is completely "dislocated" from almost every other match-up. In most cases punishment happens from block / spotdodge into the opponents ending lag but not against GW [against whom I found spotdodge not only to be unviable but superfluous anway]. The room for punishment against GW is between the time he commits to a defensive action and the start-up lag of his attacks. That's the window where you can approach him rather safely as all his OoS options are either slow or no direct threat to Ganondorf [the worst thing he has is fair OoS at really high %].
If he uses a move and hits your shield then it's almost always too late for you to punish it. When that happens try to not punish him but avoid all confrontation with him until you get into a neutral position again and where a situation arises when jab, dash attack, side-B, retreating uair, ftilt or dtilt can interrupt the start-up of whatever move he's using. Any trade with non-smash moves is in Ganondorf's favor, noticeably. Defensively I use almost only shield to cover his incoming move and roll or jump to reset the position. I never use spotdodge. You have to fight for every single % you get in but so does GW.

This is how I feel Ganondorf can approach the match-up and shave a realistic chance at winning it.

Edit: Really unorganized post. Don't be surprised if you can't make a lot of sense out of it. I'll try to get it into better shape.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Alright, here's how my tournament went.

Low tiers I made it to the finals by beating Holy's Mario and then I lost to Ally 3-2. I went to losers finals, but since some of my buddies had to go, I had to forfeit from their.

(Place 1/2.Ally or Holy - Falcon and Mario)
(Place 3.RayKalm - Ganon)

I think the matches against Ally and Holy, as well as some other people should be going up on YouTube.

This was my first tournament where I didn't make it out of the pools though. I felt like I was playing worse than usual, but that's probably because I don't commonly attend tournaments (this was my first after 2 years).

 

[Vermanubis]

Alright, here's how my tournament went.

Low tiers I made it to the finals by beating Holy's Mario and then I lost to Ally 3-2. I went to losers finals, but since some of my buddies had to go, I had to forfeit from their.

(Place 1/2.Ally or Holy - Falcon and Mario)
(Place 3.RayKalm - Ganon)

I think the matches against Ally and Holy, as well as some other people should be going up on YouTube.

This was my first tournament where I didn't make it out of the pools though. I felt like I was playing worse than usual, but that's probably because I don't commonly attend tournaments (this was my first after 2 years).

Nice job after so long, Kalm. If you get that video of you versus Ally up, DLA, you and me will all have videos of us versus Ally. Except I think DLA's is versus his MK. Assuming you fought his Falcon?

 

[DLA]

Keep it up Kalm.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Nice job after so long, Kalm. If you get that video of you versus Ally up, DLA, you and me will all have videos of us versus Ally. Except I think DLA's is versus his MK. Assuming you fought his Falcon?

Yeah, he was going Falcon. Last time when I fought his Falcon in the actual tournament singles (this was about 2 years ago), I was told the match was going to go up, but it hadn't. The tournaments I go to are mostly scrambled, with some wiis having recording abililty and some without. But, these matches I currently played are most likely to go up within a week, I'm told.

Keep it up Kalm.

Yeah, thanks.

You have to teach me how to deal with Holy's ROB, he tells me that you play his ROB much better than me.

 

[DLA]

Honestly I don't think I did anything special against Holy's ROB, I just played really smart. If you ever have to fight him again then play really aggressive, keep the pressure on him, and make sure you mix up your approaches... I remember my mixups were working really well against him. Most ROBs love spot dodge since theirs is pretty retardedly good, so punish that, and also punish bad Fair spacing with wizkick. Not much you can do if they're spacing you with Nair or Bair, but ROB needs to have fairly precise spacing for these to be effective, and that means that if you knock ROB in the air at mid %, they can't really land safely with Nair or Bair because Nair takes a long time to come out and Bair is hard to space. Fair can be hard to deal with but it still requires good spacing for it to not get punished.

If ROB's spacing you with Nair or Bair then just wait for an opening... both are easy to shield/avoid. If ROB's camping with lasers and gyros then just trudge forward... try to powershield lasers, and shield gyros so they disappear... I wouldn't bother with trying to pick them up, just get them out of there as soon as possible.


It's kind of a dumb matchup but whatcha gonna do.

 

[Heartstring]

Rob should be playing heavy keepout vs. an immobile character like ganon. lasers and gyro all day and then spacing ftilt like a god. But im one of those people who kinda panics to a rediculous amount when it gets to tournament -__-

 

[Bloodynite]

Rob should be playing heavy keepout vs. an immobile character like ganon. lasers and gyro all day and then spacing ftilt like a god. But im one of those people who kinda panics to a rediculous amount when it gets to tournament -__-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hX_Fc5GMT7A#t=119s

 

[Heartstring]

if someone could change 'fear' to 'tears' in that soundclip, i swear to god i would abuse it so much

 

[Mr. game and watch]

if someone could change 'fear' to 'tears' in that soundclip, i swear to god i would abuse it so much

The Ganon boards in a nutshell.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Kalm

How did it end up that we didn't ditto?

 

[AllyKnight]

Ray kalm is the 2nd ganon who gave me the most trouble ever (In Low tier, verm beat me once) Although, after thinking a bit, I can't say you're the best or 2nd best at all, you haven't been active enough and one tournament don't mean much, especially in low tiers. Ya gotta attend way more, and pass pools

 

[DLA]

I took your falcon to last hit game 3 in pools you dweeb

$50 MM lezgo

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Does anyone use AQuake?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ray kalm is the 2nd ganon who gave me the most trouble ever (In Low tier, verm beat me once) Although, after thinking a bit, I can't say you're the best or 2nd best at all, you haven't been active enough and one tournament don't mean much, especially in low tiers. Ya gotta attend way more, and pass pools

Yeah, you're right.

@Supreme: I didn't even realize who you were, or that you'd even be there, haha.

 

[Zhouten]

So does anyone want to Ganon ditto me so I can possibly bring my Dorf back?

 

[Heartstring]

Aquake? I assume you meant the instant OOS down b quake thingy. And i would if i could move my thumb from y to b fast enough
clumsy western hands go!

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I set my R to special to do things like that, Ganon jump and oos rest

 

[#HBC | Scary]

So does anyone want to Ganon ditto me so I can possibly bring my Dorf back?

Woah it's Zhouten!