Exalted
Smash Lord
Who the Hell is Noobicidal?
Hmm....
Hmm....
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy
- Thread starter Vermanubis
- Start date
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Exalted
Smash Lord
Blasphemy.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
ganon boards combo video? am i too late to contribute or has it not even been made yet?
Exalted
Smash Lord
No, you're not too late, but we have decided to wait another 6 months or so before we start making it. In the meanwhile, most of us post ideas for music we can use in it.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
****it, although 6 months is a **** long waiting time XD
either that or im missing the internet sarcasm
either that or im missing the internet sarcasm
Exalted
Smash Lord
No sarcasm, lol 
Heartstring
Smash Legend
NUUUUUU
also, is ike the only character in the game who we can gimp for certain with jsut ONE tipman u-air Before his second jump?
want research to show he has the most linear recovery ever
also, is ike the only character in the game who we can gimp for certain with jsut ONE tipman u-air Before his second jump?
want research to show he has the most linear recovery ever
Exalted
Smash Lord
Depends on where he's located when you Tipman him.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
I wouldn't say the only character, but yeah. Ganon actually edgeguards Ike really stupidly easily (contrary to what 09 knowledge would state), since you can either edgehog correctly, or you can edgehog early, and then ledgedrop with an invincible tipman U-air. On top of the fact that Flame Choke F-tilt is guaranteed on him. Those two things (and a few other details) make the matchup pretty exciting for Ganon.
But Ganon anyhow has a better edgeguard game on Bowser imo. Bowser has the most linear and thus the worst recovery in the game. If he's recovering high, U-air him until he's forced to recover lower. If he's recovering low, U-air OR D-air him. Nothing much he can do about it. Basically watch what Ijosh does in the combo video "And now at the bottom".
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
Link? Lmfao
Exalted
Smash Lord
Link is a joke when recovering.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
^True statement.
Bowser's recovery however is worse. It's the most telegraphed recovery due to having the worst vertical mixup potential in the game, and lacks any good high priority options, and landing onstage is never a safe option for him. On top of that he isn't even allowed to airdodge since as I recall his airdodge is laggier than most. His recovery hurts him in many more matchups than what Link suffers from even when Bowser isn't gimped since he is guaranteed to always take massive damage offstage. Furthermore it is by far easier for several characters to gimp Bowser than it is to gimp Link long as they have a gimp tool that has a good hitbox.
Also hurting Bowser is being easily comboed, and having the worst edge options in the game after he hits 100%. Once Bowser is over 100% and sent offstage, he's essentially lost his stock if you know what his options are. He has no respectable mixups or anti-edgeguard maneuvers to speak of. DIing high doesn't do crap to extend his life when all of his options for getting out of juggles have very low priority and bad ending lag.
Bowser's recovery alone makes him a low tier character. Not even Olimar suffers to the extent Bowser does offstage. Probably the one character with a recovery comparably bad as Bowser's is Ivysaur. And it's pretty debatable whose recovery actually is worse, since Ivysaur has a fairly low commitment projectile, an okay airdodge, and existent vertical mixup options as long as she's close enough to the stage. Her F-air also has good disjointed range and can wall some edgeguard attempts.
Bowser's recovery however is worse. It's the most telegraphed recovery due to having the worst vertical mixup potential in the game, and lacks any good high priority options, and landing onstage is never a safe option for him. On top of that he isn't even allowed to airdodge since as I recall his airdodge is laggier than most. His recovery hurts him in many more matchups than what Link suffers from even when Bowser isn't gimped since he is guaranteed to always take massive damage offstage. Furthermore it is by far easier for several characters to gimp Bowser than it is to gimp Link long as they have a gimp tool that has a good hitbox.
Also hurting Bowser is being easily comboed, and having the worst edge options in the game after he hits 100%. Once Bowser is over 100% and sent offstage, he's essentially lost his stock if you know what his options are. He has no respectable mixups or anti-edgeguard maneuvers to speak of. DIing high doesn't do crap to extend his life when all of his options for getting out of juggles have very low priority and bad ending lag.
Bowser's recovery alone makes him a low tier character. Not even Olimar suffers to the extent Bowser does offstage. Probably the one character with a recovery comparably bad as Bowser's is Ivysaur. And it's pretty debatable whose recovery actually is worse, since Ivysaur has a fairly low commitment projectile, an okay airdodge, and existent vertical mixup options as long as she's close enough to the stage. Her F-air also has good disjointed range and can wall some edgeguard attempts.
Exalted
Smash Lord
A2Z the Gimpdorf?
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Heartstring
Smash Legend
linear=/=worst
at least with bowsers you can sorta control the horizontal direction, as for ike you ca move about an inch, and link has bombs if he gets edgeguarded that much
but true, i forgot abot ivysaur, as she also has one of the lowest horizontal air speeds in the game, not ideal when your recovery is useless
at least with bowsers you can sorta control the horizontal direction, as for ike you ca move about an inch, and link has bombs if he gets edgeguarded that much
but true, i forgot abot ivysaur, as she also has one of the lowest horizontal air speeds in the game, not ideal when your recovery is useless
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
I don't quite get what you mean how you can sorta control the horizontal direction of Bowser's Up-B. His Up-B goes only one place once you start it up, and it has huge commitment and notice as to where it is going to go.
It's not that Bowser's recovery is just linear (although it is in fact by far THE most linear recovery in the game). The key thing that makes Bowser's recovery a clear level below all other recoveries is the lack of vertical mixup in his recovery. Vertical options by far have much bigger priority over horizontal options since your ability to alter your height is what actually helps you avoid **** zones. All recoveries fundamentally move towards the stage, and anyone who DIs correctly has no trouble landing on stage.
Bowser's recovery in addition to having bad priority and being extremely telegraphed also lacks the option of landing onstage safely due to its landing lag and the lack of options to escape juggles. Furthermore it is one of the more easily edgehogged Up-Bs in this game, and it gains very very little vertical height. Even worse, the option of airdodging doesn't exist for him due to how laggy his airdodge is. Thanks to all these factors, Bowser's recovery ALWAYS at some point moves into the universal zone where every single character in the game can **** it very easily (if he doesn't get ***** by guaranteed juggles for recovering high). There is no other recovery in the game that is 100% guaranteed to be in **** zone like Bowser's. There is absolutely no excuse for letting Bowser recover from mid to long distance without getting punished.
Ike I do agree has a bottom tier recovery, but his options still present better vertical mixups than what Bowser is capable of. Between Quick Draw and Aether which both have high priority, his recovery can occasionally get out of **** zones unlike Bowser's. Plus Ike unlike Bowser is allowed to airdodge. Plus, nobody except Donkey Kong has an edgegame that is nearly as bad as Bowser's when he's over 100%. Past 100%, a Bowser that is sent offstage should never make it back on his feet against anyone good. Given that Bowser is easily comboed to that damage, I believe Bowser to be one of the least durable characters in the game in high level play. You just combo him to 100%, get him offstage, and do a proper edgeguard/juggle routine, and he's just lost his stock.
The one thing Bowser can say over some recoveries is that other characters merely hate getting gimped more than he does. But that's mainly a question of how much they get punished for bad DI and poor choices, which happens less in high level play, which means you will see good Link, Ganon, and Olimar players actually have the tools to make it back safely in the majority of matchups. Bowser doesn't even have choices once he's offstage. No matter what he does or how he DIs, he just gets ***** when you understand how badly all of his options are shut down by simple universal tactics, and like other bad recoveries he's still actually easy to gimp.
It's not that Bowser's recovery is just linear (although it is in fact by far THE most linear recovery in the game). The key thing that makes Bowser's recovery a clear level below all other recoveries is the lack of vertical mixup in his recovery. Vertical options by far have much bigger priority over horizontal options since your ability to alter your height is what actually helps you avoid **** zones. All recoveries fundamentally move towards the stage, and anyone who DIs correctly has no trouble landing on stage.
Bowser's recovery in addition to having bad priority and being extremely telegraphed also lacks the option of landing onstage safely due to its landing lag and the lack of options to escape juggles. Furthermore it is one of the more easily edgehogged Up-Bs in this game, and it gains very very little vertical height. Even worse, the option of airdodging doesn't exist for him due to how laggy his airdodge is. Thanks to all these factors, Bowser's recovery ALWAYS at some point moves into the universal zone where every single character in the game can **** it very easily (if he doesn't get ***** by guaranteed juggles for recovering high). There is no other recovery in the game that is 100% guaranteed to be in **** zone like Bowser's. There is absolutely no excuse for letting Bowser recover from mid to long distance without getting punished.
Ike I do agree has a bottom tier recovery, but his options still present better vertical mixups than what Bowser is capable of. Between Quick Draw and Aether which both have high priority, his recovery can occasionally get out of **** zones unlike Bowser's. Plus Ike unlike Bowser is allowed to airdodge. Plus, nobody except Donkey Kong has an edgegame that is nearly as bad as Bowser's when he's over 100%. Past 100%, a Bowser that is sent offstage should never make it back on his feet against anyone good. Given that Bowser is easily comboed to that damage, I believe Bowser to be one of the least durable characters in the game in high level play. You just combo him to 100%, get him offstage, and do a proper edgeguard/juggle routine, and he's just lost his stock.
The one thing Bowser can say over some recoveries is that other characters merely hate getting gimped more than he does. But that's mainly a question of how much they get punished for bad DI and poor choices, which happens less in high level play, which means you will see good Link, Ganon, and Olimar players actually have the tools to make it back safely in the majority of matchups. Bowser doesn't even have choices once he's offstage. No matter what he does or how he DIs, he just gets ***** when you understand how badly all of his options are shut down by simple universal tactics, and like other bad recoveries he's still actually easy to gimp.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
by linear, i mean the fact that it cant be controlled at all, at least you get to choose which way youre gonig with bowser XD, with ike youre going upwards and theres very little choice otherwise, QD is suicide against everyone.
but i think theyre both crap at recovering XD
anyway this is the ganon boards, not the recovery discussion topic >.<
but i think theyre both crap at recovering XD
anyway this is the ganon boards, not the recovery discussion topic >.<
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
At any rate though, I'm convinced Ganon is pretty much even with Bowser for the mere fact that Bowser's recovery is just awful beyond belief. Actually I'm starting to question if Ganon actually can pull the advantage in the matchup. The extent to which Ganondorf can just destroy Bowser everywhere where Bowser is weak when Ganon is in control is just astounding.
Ike's QD isn't quite suicide against everyone as long as you leave the option open to go over your opponent. Sure the landing lag isn't pretty, but it's much more forgiving than Bowser's Up-B.
Anyhow Bowser is overrated and sucks...I'd say probably like the 3rd or 4th worst character in the game. It's what you get when your onstage safety is iffy at best, and you get punished RIDICULOUSLY hard when being juggled and edgeguarded. I don't consider him to be *significantly* better than Ganon.
And Link's recovery is underrated. It certainly is not good, but it's nowhere nearly as crippling of a weakness as it is made out to be.
Ike's QD isn't quite suicide against everyone as long as you leave the option open to go over your opponent. Sure the landing lag isn't pretty, but it's much more forgiving than Bowser's Up-B.
Anyhow Bowser is overrated and sucks...I'd say probably like the 3rd or 4th worst character in the game. It's what you get when your onstage safety is iffy at best, and you get punished RIDICULOUSLY hard when being juggled and edgeguarded. I don't consider him to be *significantly* better than Ganon.
And Link's recovery is underrated. It certainly is not good, but it's nowhere nearly as crippling of a weakness as it is made out to be.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
For the most part, you guys were discussing Tipman gimps versus characters with abysmal recoveries. If we understand what exactly makes these recoveries so crappy, it makes getting the gimp a lot easier.
Besides, this is our Social thread. It's rather hard to be off-topic here.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Ranting about Bowser's recovery is something I like doing since I'm quite tired of people saying Link and Ganon have the worst recovery, when they obviously don't understand how proper edgeguarding actually works.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
well, to be honest, find a good bowser to play,and then just TRY to get him offstage, its very hard agaisnt a safe bowser, i plaed the best boozer in europe (and arguably in the world) and dear lord, if he's going offstage then hes hitting the blast zone (not at the bottom either)
when i say 'linear' i mean the fact that you cant do much to save yourself, link has bombs and ganon's has a grab hitbox which-if it lands- practically guarantee's youre getting back onstage
however, bowser and ike both have horribly linear recoveries, which means that the tipman u-air will work wonders on them and ike has the second lowest second jump in the game (only ganons is worse actually) and can only moves a small amount sideways when recovering with aether, and if you use QD youre probably going to die.
as for bowser, i really dont know how he works, but its been mentioned that you can klaw hop on the blastzone (as its got the same properties as ground on a stage) without dying and can possibly get back. but i think this is too risky to include XD
regardless, its all too simple to gimp both of these two, one u-air and they are definetely gone, no questions there >.<
when i say 'linear' i mean the fact that you cant do much to save yourself, link has bombs and ganon's has a grab hitbox which-if it lands- practically guarantee's youre getting back onstage
however, bowser and ike both have horribly linear recoveries, which means that the tipman u-air will work wonders on them and ike has the second lowest second jump in the game (only ganons is worse actually) and can only moves a small amount sideways when recovering with aether, and if you use QD youre probably going to die.
as for bowser, i really dont know how he works, but its been mentioned that you can klaw hop on the blastzone (as its got the same properties as ground on a stage) without dying and can possibly get back. but i think this is too risky to include XD
regardless, its all too simple to gimp both of these two, one u-air and they are definetely gone, no questions there >.<
Bahamut777
Smash Ace
Third worse. Peach's the worst, Ganon's the second worse.
I was "fired" from my job...
In fact, it was my contract that expeled and my boss didn't wanted to renew it...
Now I need to find a new way to steal money from someone...
Any ideas?
Heartstring
Smash Legend
oh yeah peach, my bad, catch is she can float XD
your contract ran out? dude unlucky, i suggest becoming absolutely amazingly good with ganondorf and make a living my doing ganon ditto money matches against everyone for high amount of mnoey
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Do what I do: Sell your body to science in various ways. Plasma is one of the more consistent markets, netting around $50 a week on average.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Sell your **** also.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
You can make over 100k a year donating sperm... but unfortunately they only accept like 5% of the people who apply. So don't bother trying unless you're an exceptional human being
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Good to know...
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Bahamut777
Smash Ace
Erm...
Here in Brazil... they don't pay for your body donation acts...
They thank you with a cookie and a samba music played on the radio... >_>
Here in Brazil... they don't pay for your body donation acts...
They thank you with a cookie and a samba music played on the radio... >_>
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Potato potato.
You got what I meant, that's enough.
Reasoning, please.
Also please list the ones you think are the best (or the one you think is the best) =)
Heartstring
Smash Legend
yeah, that phrase really doesnt work on a forum XD
but for those with OCD like me, we like to have stuffs called by the correct name
tbh, i often say i have CDO, which is like OCD but in alphabetical order XD
...
|||||||||||/|||||
umad?
Bahamut777
Smash Ace
One Piece breaks every "Best Manga" argument.
Also, Bleach is the top comedy manga.
the king of murder
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
- Messages
- 1,100
- Location
- In a bizarre legend
- NNID
- Dragongod
- 3DS FC
- 4656-7323-6978
This statement is
approved.
Quoted for absolute truth.