Ganondorf Vs. Projectiles (Tips)

[20thMain]

*************** Vs. Projectiles ******************

While Ganondorf is in the air, projectiles will pass between his legs. I recorded two instances below.

*Slow down the video to 0.25x speed*
-YoungLink's Arrows:
https://youtu.be/N09U3HRtNtQ
-Wolf's Lazer
https://youtu.be/O-cOYmKkRgk

-Instead of spot dodging or double jumping small projectiles, you can short hop into them and have them pass between your legs. This way you don't lose position and doesn't give your opponent any opening.

-Learn the speed of every characters' projectiles/the optimal way to dodge each one (the option resulting in the least amount of time avoiding them) and get comfortable dodging them

-Use short/full hop fastfalls to approach and space your opponent and jump over Projectiles then fastfall down to reset your position.

-while spacing/approaching with short/fullhop fastfalls, use your second jump with your aerials (press jump and an aerial attack at the same time) to move while covering options/create unique hang times in the air that a regular double jump cant do/avoid attacks.
*Example: If you're already in mid short-hop and samus just shot a fully charged beam, instead of using a regular double jump, Dair+Jump at the same time. A Dair+Jump together moves you upwards faster than a regular jump, he tucks his feet to his chest creating less creating less of a hitbox, and it feels like you can fast falls to the ground faster than doing 2 short hops.*

-Be watching your opponent like a hawk for the starting animation for their projectiles. Never take your eyes/focus off them

-Ganondorf's Jab is a great tool for nullifying projectiles. Jab reaches farther than SideTilt and nearly as far as Dtilt as well as being incredibly fast

-WizardKick cancels big projectiles like full charged samus beam and goes right through small projectiles

Vs. Links:
-"Jab"the boomerang
-Short-Hop the arrows

Vs. Samus:
-"Jab" the missles
-Short-hop or jab the small beams
-Double short hop or wizardKick the big beam

************************************************
●Some off topic stuff I've come across

•Ganondorf's Tippman can deal regular Uair Dmg/Knockback

In the video I did 4 different Tippman's. The first two are dealing regular Uair Dmg/KnockBack. The last 2 are average Tippmans.
https://youtu.be/XW-5GdUaBHc

•Tippman ShieldPoke
Characters' head and feet are the first parts to be vulnerable when a shield is draining. Tippman can poke from the top.

 

[Dimir]

Thank you! Very informative
Only thing I might add is be aware of your opponents habits once you've gotten through the projectiles. Especially with online play, some opponents will almost always roll, jump, or attack you etc when you clear a projectile

 

[20thMain]

Thank you! Very informative
Only thing I might add is be aware of your opponents habits once you've gotten through the projectiles. Especially with online play, some opponents will almost always roll, jump, or attack you etc when you clear a projectile

That's actually a really good, if not the most important, point. Have a plan once you've broken through the projectiles. For a while, I focused too much on the projectiles and once I avoided them and got in close, they either rolled away or I got sucker punched.

While we're on the topic of reading habits, be aware of your opponent picking up reads on you and preemptively shooting that option.
--Example Vs. Link: You FullHop jump-FastFalling alot to avoid his **** and get close and now that boomerang is always angled upwards, hitting you every time. So now you can either switch to short-hop, preemptively nair, or not jump and stand still for a split second if you think it's coming, while moving to that location to nullify the boomerang

*SideNote: When using JumpFastFall movement with Ganondorf, aside from special circumstances, I will only use ShortHop FastFalls so you can get back to the ground faster to react accordingly

 

[link2702]

Wizards foot doesn’t consistently cancel the big ones from what I’ve seen except a bit closer to the end of the move...

It’s really....odd, every time I’ve ended up using wizard foot when the projectile is a bit closer, when the hitbox on wizard foot should already be out and at its strongest, the move doesn’t take out or cancel the big projectiles, and Ganon gets hit instead, sometimes the small ones too. Yet if i hit the projectiles while the move is closer to ending THEN it eats through the weaker ones and clashes with the strong ones.

I really feel there’s something odd about the hitbox on his down special right now.

Side note; I really wish they’d just instead have Ganon’s down special just vaporize all projectiles and he keeps going full speed. Explosives as well. When he hits them they just vanish in a cloud of dark energy, they aren’t reflected, don’t slow Ganon down, they just vanish.

MAYBE if it sounds a bit op(doesn’t to me, since the move still has so much end and startup lag.) make it so each projectile he destroys weakens the damage and knock back, so when he does hit the victim they don’t get knocked as far. Either way I still feel he needs some better tools against projectiles, even with the op’s advice here, he still struggles against projectiles so so much, especially ones like snakes kit of explosives.

 

[20thMain]

Wizards foot doesn’t consistently cancel the big ones from what I’ve seen except a bit closer to the end of the move...

It’s really....odd, every time I’ve ended up using wizard foot when the projectile is a bit closer, when the hitbox on wizard foot should already be out and at its strongest, the move doesn’t take out or cancel the big projectiles, and Ganon gets hit instead, sometimes the small ones too. Yet if i hit the projectiles while the move is closer to ending THEN it eats through the weaker ones and clashes with the strong ones.

I really feel there’s something odd about the hitbox on his down special right now.

Side note; I really wish they’d just instead have Ganon’s down special just vaporize all projectiles and he keeps going full speed. Explosives as well. When he hits them they just vanish in a cloud of dark energy, they aren’t reflected, don’t slow Ganon down, they just vanish.

MAYBE if it sounds a bit op(doesn’t to me, since the move still has so much end and startup lag.) make it so each projectile he destroys weakens the damage and knock back, so when he does hit the victim they don’t get knocked as far. Either way I still feel he needs some better tools against projectiles, even with the op’s advice here, he still struggles against projectiles so so much, especially ones like snakes kit of explosives.

Wizards foot doesn’t consistently cancel the big ones from what I’ve seen except a bit closer to the end of the move...

It’s really....odd, every time I’ve ended up using wizard foot when the projectile is a bit closer, when the hitbox on wizard foot should already be out and at its strongest, the move doesn’t take out or cancel the big projectiles, and Ganon gets hit instead, sometimes the small ones too. Yet if i hit the projectiles while the move is closer to ending THEN it eats through the weaker ones and clashes with the strong ones.

I really feel there’s something odd about the hitbox on his down special right now.

Side note; I really wish they’d just instead have Ganon’s down special just vaporize all projectiles and he keeps going full speed. Explosives as well. When he hits them they just vanish in a cloud of dark energy, they aren’t reflected, don’t slow Ganon down, they just vanish.

MAYBE if it sounds a bit op(doesn’t to me, since the move still has so much end and startup lag.) make it so each projectile he destroys weakens the damage and knock back, so when he does hit the victim they don’t get knocked as far. Either way I still feel he needs some better tools against projectiles, even with the op’s advice here, he still struggles against projectiles so so much, especially ones like snakes kit of explosives.

I just double checked samus, WiiFitTrainer (with deep breathe as well), and Lucario's charge beams as close as 1 grid block in training stage and the tail end of wizardfoot and it cancelled without fail everytime (except when lucario has high dmg%).

My only guess is that the projectiles that were trumping your wizard-kicks' were fired from a short-hop and missed the hitbox on Ganons foot and hit you instead.

 

[~?~]

This applies to everything until you get down to more complicated projectiles like the boomerangs, which of course can have changed angles that really mess this plan up. I do recommend this advice EXCEPT for Link / Yink / Tink Bangerangs

 

[20thMain]

This applies to everything until you get down to more complicated projectiles like the boomerangs, which of course can have changed angles that really mess this plan up. I do recommend this advice EXCEPT for Link / Yink / Tink Bangerangs

Ganon's jab vs. Boomerangs, not Nair, my bad. Nair awful vs boomerangs. His jab in this game reaches farther than his sideTilt and nearly as long as his Dtilt. As soon as you see link's boomerang animation just stand still and get ready to jab. This applies to downward angled boomerangs as well. Just to clarify, I'm not saying the best way to deal with projectiles is to cancel EVERY single one thrown at you. I'm trying to say that there are plenty of moments during matches against zoners where canceling out their projectile with an attack is doable/beneficial, taking some of the work off your shoulders by not having to dodge and get stuck in the air as much. Just another option at his disposal if the situation calls for it. At the end of the day you're still playing against a zoner.

 

[King9999]

I think we need a list of all the projectile interactions vs Wizard Foot. It's a lot of work though.

 

[~?~]

I think we need a list of all the projectile interactions vs Wizard Foot. It's a lot of work though.

wizard foot is funny because it isn't just based on the projectile, but the distance traveled with wizard foot. As a link main, I've experienced multiple interactions with boomerang and foot. If they are at mid travel distance and the boomerang also at mid distance, he goes through it. At foot startup, the boomerang beats foot, but if wizard foot is already active and I toss boomerang, boomerang will then beats foot. It's very complicated because boomerang isn't the only strange multi possible result of interaction with wizard foot. Robs gyro and bananas also have mix results at weird trajectories and distances. Sometimes when vintage and foot travel equal distance, the boomerang doesn't hit ganon but does stop his wizard foot by canceling it

 

[King9999]

wizard foot is funny because it isn't just based on the projectile, but the distance traveled with wizard foot. As a link main, I've experienced multiple interactions with boomerang and foot. If they are at mid travel distance and the boomerang also at mid distance, he goes through it. At foot startup, the boomerang beats foot, but if wizard foot is already active and I toss boomerang, boomerang will then beats foot. It's very complicated because boomerang isn't the only strange multi possible result of interaction with wizard foot. Robs gyro and bananas also have mix results at weird trajectories and distances. Sometimes when vintage and foot travel equal distance, the boomerang doesn't hit ganon but does stop his wizard foot by canceling it

I don't think it's distance, but damage that determines what happens. IIRC, boomerang's damage will decrease the further it travels. Other projectiles are like this also. When two moves clash, the higher damage move wins.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Wiz kick goes through weak charge shot from mewtwo I know.

 

[Downshift]

I don't think it's distance, but damage that determines what happens. IIRC, boomerang's damage will decrease the further it travels. Other projectiles are like this also. When two moves clash, the higher damage move wins.

I know for a fact that in Sm4sh, moves would clash and cancel each other out if the damage each of them did was within a certain threshold of each other; 7% I think. That also meant than things like stale moves also affect whether something clashes or loses.
I think it's the same for Ultimate, but I'm not sure if that threshold changed to something like 9% or something.

 

[MalanoMan]

Currently, when I play Ganon vs a projectile char, I have no problems avoiding the projectiles, but I encounter problems when I get close to my enemy. If I have to spend both of my jumps to avoid projectiles, then try to nair my way in, it might get shielded, and then I will get grabbed. If I FF out of the 2nd jump and try to jab, that doesnt always work either. Sometimes the opponent will hit me first with a jab or a tilt.

Any advice on how to proceed? This is mainly a problem on FD and omega stages, because I think platforms usually help, but not always. I guess the solution is to SH and FF between projectiles, which would allow me to maintain my 2nd jump, but I dont know if thats possible against every projectile.