Ganondorf: Patch 1.1.6 Changes

[Ray_Kalm]

About 8:50-11PM -5 EST (4-6 hours from the start of this post) there will be a balance patch updating the current version to 1.1.6.

Post the changes that Ganon may recieve below, and I'll add them to the OP.

For now you can discuss the possibilities.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Sorry to be the first to post, but where did you find that info on when it starts? I can't seem to see it anywhere on the Nintendo site yet everyone is coming up with a specific time. thanks



i like how no one cared to answer my question. ^_^

 

[Zam053]

I feel that most buffs we can get are more quality of life rather than necessary. The only thing I can think of is a better grab range or reward, but other than that, all of then are nice, but unecessary. A jab frame buff and a FTilt/DTilt frame buff would be nice and a untechable choke would be bonkers, but not really needed.

 

[Coolkidd]

I feel that most buffs we can get are more quality of life rather than necessary. The only thing I can think of is a better grab range or reward, but other than that, all of then are nice, but unecessary. A jab frame buff and a FTilt/DTilt frame buff would be nice and a untechable choke would be bonkers, but not really needed.

I just wanna say I love your avatar.
Anyway, I'd love a lot of this stuff too. Untechable Flame Choke sounds fun, but at the same time I feel good when I can catch somebody trying to escape from Ganon's punishment...
You know what I think would be awesome too?
Extra grab range + a more reliable kill throw.
I just want to watch the world burn.

 

[Twoyears]

Fix flame choke somehow. It's decent in some match ups but in almost every match up that matters (sheik...) it's borderline useless.

 

[jordimarcel]

My wish list is:
short hop autocancel Dair
jump refresh after arial wiz kick
rework the fair hitbox so it lines up with animation
higher jump so that we can do more off of ledge
more arial mobility
no more nair changes

 

[Z1GMA]

I've had a break for like 2 months, so I'm not very updated.
Last we had our Jab buffed, for one, which we've been wanting for a long time, so this time you be a good boy and buff our grab, Sakurai, and possibly cut off 1 or 2 frames off of Dthrow.

 

[free33]

More base knockback on all of his smash attacks. I just want to watch the world burn in purple fire.

 

[Bajef8]

Just give us more air speed, better grab range, and either a kill throw or an end lag reduction on dthrow.

 

[Theosmeo]

https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/network/en_na/network_status.jsp
This says online play for random games will go down thursday, that's probably a sign

 

[Opana]

The year is 20KickKick, where both kicks of nair deal 20% each.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

A little worried we got our attention last patch, and they're gonna move on to the rest of the cast. Hopefully they don't think Ganon is fine now.

 

[WwwWario]

There are 3 main things I want to see for Ganon in this patch:

1. A Nair that has less landing lag and end lag. This will mean that a fast-fall Nair (where only the first hit of the nair hits) will cancel fast enough for Dorf to follow up with it. For example fast fall 1st hit of Nair -> Side Tilt. Also less ending lag on it, meaning that it will auto cancel earlier. Maybe not from a normal short hop, but that you can fast fall a bit with it in a full hop and still having it auto cancel.

2. Increased running speed/movement speed. Several characters have gotten it, Mewtwo being the recent one, so why not us? More speed would let Dorf escape and avoid attacks easier, he could follow up easier, and approach easier. I think he deserves it.

3. Make grab more rewarding. The grab range is EXTREMELY short, but... it can stay that way. As long as we get a better reward for actually landing a grab. His pummel is almost useless unless the opponent is 100+%, since it's so slow so anyone will just mash out of it before you're able to do an actual throw. Make it faster. As for his throws, his Down Throw is fine with a decent damage and lots of follow up potential at a big percent range. His Forward Throw is also nice, dealing a massive 13% damage. His Up Throw is ok-ish at most. It IS nice to get opponents in the air, since you can catch them up there before they land since Ganon has good areals, but at least make it do more than 10%. And finally, his Back Throw. This is where the problem is. He's GANONDORF, the King of Evil, wielder of the Triforce of Power, and he can't even have a kill throw? C'mon. I mean, his Back Throw CAN kill... at like 160% damage. It can stay at a solid 10% damage, but make it kill a LOT earlier. With his slow speed, short grab range, and very long end lag of a missed grab, his opponents deserve pain if they get grabbed by him.







And also throw in Super Armor on his areal Warlock Punch for good measure

 

[Garo]

Here's my wishlist, though I'd be happy to have just one of these come true:

-Less startup and endlag on all grab variations.
-Make Up Throw kill. Power could be somewhere between Mewtwo's and Marth's.
-More air speed.
-Give Dark Dive's grab attack more knockback and damage and make the twirly ending animation faster.
-Make it so that Dark Vault's second jump doesn't kill the horizontal momentum.
-Drastically reduce the endlag on Warlock Thrust.
-I'd make grounded Flame Choke untechable, but there's an in-game tip about that so I doubt they'll change it. Maybe give it less endlag on hit instead?
-Perhaps give Fair a bit more range or active frames? I feel like it whiffs sometimes even though it looks like it should've hit. I dunno, maybe it's just me.

 

[Theosmeo]

-I'd make grounded Flame Choke untechable, but there's an in-game tip about that so I doubt they'll change it. Maybe give it less endlag on hit instead?
-Perhaps give Fair a bit more range or active frames? I feel like it whiffs sometimes even though it looks like it should've hit. I dunno, maybe it's just me.

On flame choke: There is? Dang it >:^(

On Fair: it has huge range, I think the real problem is that if you land the hitbox goes away but the animation continues so that swoosh that forms around the fist just doesn't affect opponents. I'd like it to have a landing hitbox like Falcos.

 

[ElectroLightning]

Honestly, I think Ganon just needs a better grab game, much more shield damage, and a bit more air speed...

 

[jacksonTown]

Rumor has it that this is just a patch for some Bayonetta tweaking. Here's to hoping that's not true because I'd really like to see some grab adjustments for Ganon.

 

[free33]

lol yup it's just bayonetta nerfs. tho the matchup is still terrible for us sooooo......

 

[Theosmeo]

Apparently there's still some stage alterations. That might give us some advantages or make something good for us legal.

Also dataminers weren't able to find everything in the cloud patch because they upload data progressively. There's still a small chance.

Worst comes to worst we have to wait 2 months. The king will come back, he always does.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Patch is live boys.

I wonder if we will get something...

 

[Xinc]

Sorry to be the first to post, but where did you find that info on when it starts? I can't seem to see it anywhere on the Nintendo site yet everyone is coming up with a specific time. thanks i like how no one cared to answer my question. ^_^

Well I'm gonna put this out there. The site didn't say, but because there was a maintenance last night, most assumed it would be slapped on right after.

 

[Z1GMA]

As much as it sucked when we found out our character didn't get any buffs, it's still nice to see them focus on Bayo only.
It shows that they're truly devoted to getting OP Stuff out of the game.
This was indirectly very good for Lord Ganon.

 

[MezzoMe]

As much as it sucked when we found out our character didn't get any buffs, it's still nice to see them focus on Bayo only.
It shows that they're truly devoted to getting OP Stuff out of the game.
This was indirectly very good for Lord Ganon.

It's more like they are truly devoted to listen the community, as it is one of the three sources to estimate the balance of the game; more vocal complains equal stronger nerfs, in fact, since the community has no sense of measure whatsoever they complain ad nauseam right before complaining about the character getting overnerfed

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I implemented a few changes to Ganon in the patch (in my signature).

A few things to note:
- slightly faster ftilt and dtilt (dtilt now hits full cast on missed choke tech)
- aerial choke ends a few frames earlier to allow for safer follow up attempts
- faster and slightly bigger grabs
- thunderstorm
- up throw kills at mid 100s
- less lag and more shield damage on wizkick

At one point I asked folks in the Discord, but it was mostly randos spouting nonsense.

Things I did NOT want to do:
- make Ganon move faster or more like Falcon in any way

Things I CAN'T do:
- make choke untechable
- non-universal shieldstun
- affect freefall state

Other than that, I'm receptive to feedback. A lot of these changes were sourced from this forum in the first place.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganon's one of the worst characters (if not the worst) in the game, when it comes to the neutral.
So things that can improve his neutral is the most important imo;
Better Grab Range, better horizontal movement, AC SH Dair, and a frame 6 Jab would greatly improve his neutral.

Besides his neutral, his recovery could be buffed slightly by giving him a slightly higher DJ - this would also allow for easier ledge DJ > stage Options.

His Momentum Game is good as it is - in fact better than good, so there's no reason to improve him in this area
(though better horizontal movement and AC SH Dair would contribute here as a bonus as well.)

*edit:
A unique way of buffing his approach would be to increase the Shield Stun on Dash Attack so that it is +0 on shield. That would be hilarious and unique, and Ganon deserves it

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Ganon's one of the worst characters (if not the worst) in the game, when it comes to the neutral.
So things that can improve his neutral is the most important imo;
Better Grab Range, better horizontal movement, AC SH Dair, and a frame 6 Jab would greatly improve his neutral.

Besides his neutral, his recovery could be buffed slightly by giving him a slightly higher DJ - this would also allow for easier ledge DJ > stage Options.

His Momentum Game is good as it is - in fact better than good, so there's no reason to improve him in this area
(though better horizontal movement and AC SH Dair would contribute here as a bonus as well.)

*edit:
A unique way of buffing his approach would be to increase the Shield Stun on Dash Attack so that it is +0 on shield. That would be hilarious and unique, and Ganon deserves it

Thanks for the input. I realized I'd already posted in this thread and referencing my signature wasn't overly helpful. So, here are the changes that are live already:


Jab Startup Frame Duration: 0.8 -> 0.6
F-tilt Startup Frame Duration: 1 -> 0.9
F-Tilt Damage: 13/12/12 -> 12/11/11
F-Tilt Hitlag 1/1/1 -> 1.1/1.1/1
F-tilt Shield damage: 0/0/0 -> 3/2/2
D-tilt Startup Frame Duration: 1 -> 0.8
Dash Attack FAF: 38 -> 37
Fair FAF: 45 -> 42
Fair Autocancel: 37
Dair FAF: 47 -> 42
Dair Autocancel: 32 -> 27
All Grab sizes: +1
Grab startup: 7 -> 6
Dash Grab startup: 11 -> 10
Pivot Grab startup: 10 -> 9
Up-throw damage: 7/3 -> 5.6/5.4
Up B Startup Frame Duration: 1 -> 0.8
Up B Multihit Damage: 1.2 -> 2
Side B Aerial Landing FAF: 41 -> 38
Down B (Ground) FAF: 77 -> 70
Down B (Ground) Size: 4.5/3.8/3.5 -> 4.8/4/3.7
Down B (Ground) 1/2 Shield Damage: 4/4 -> 6/6
Down B (Ground) 1/2 Hitlag: 1/1 -> 1.1/1.1
Down B (Aerial) FAF: 58 -> 52
Down B (Aerial Landing) Shield Damage: 0 -> 5


Param Changes:
Fair Landing Lag: 22 -> 21
Dair Landing Lag: 26 -> 22
Weight: 113 -> 115


With the exception of horizontal movement (by which I assume you mean run/walk speed?), everything you suggested is basically in there. I'm trying to hold out on movement speed changes, but I'm willing to cave if there's consensus.

Edit: Didn't see the DJ change. That's interesting.

 

[Z1GMA]

Looks good. A lower hitbox on the start of Uair would be nice as well, thus making it hit short ppl when you do a rising SH Uair, or rising SH Uair OoS.