Ganondorf Match-Up Rankings

[Ray_Kalm]

Hey guys, we're still far away from completing matchup ratios for all Smash 4 characters and I've been requested on what Ganon's MU chart would look like from some Smash Board members working on an overall chart for all characters. I could use your input and help.

So, here I thought we could post our personal matchup ratios below (from worst to best). You don't need to specify the entire cast, and you could edit in those details later.

This will give Ganondorf and general smash players a good outlook of Ganon's MU flow.

I'll start:
Sheik 30:70
Rosalina 35:65
Luigi: 40:60
... continuing

Xinc @Adom Z1GMA

 

[Abbey Street]

Mario 45:55
Peach 40:60
Diddy Kong 40:60
Zelda 45:55
Toon Link 50:50
Fox 50:50
Mewtwo 45:55
Roy 50:50
Ryu 40:60
Corrin 45:55

 

[BOB R.O.B.]

I'm still debating on R.O.B., but I can see it being even to 40:60 at worst.

 

[HeavyLobster]

55:45 Puff
55:45 Doc
55:45 Kirby
50:50 Shulk
45:55 Pit/Dark Pit
40:60 ZSS

 

[LoveExpert]

Instead of worst to best or something like that, ill just put them in roster order
Mario 40:60
Luigi 35:65
Peach 35:65
Bowser 45:55
Yoshi 35:65
Rosa 30:70
Bowser Jr 40:60
Wario 50:50
Donkey Kong 45:55
Ditty Kong 35:65
Mr. Game & Watch 55:45
Little Mac 40:60
Link 40:60
Zelda 45:55
Sheik 30:70
Ganondorf 50:50
Toon Link 40:60
Samus 40:60
Zero Suit Samus 35:65
Pit/Dark Pit 35:65
Palutena 45:55
Marth 40:60
Ike 35:65
Robin 40:60
Duck Hunt 40:60
Kirby 45:55
King Dedede 40:60
Meta Knight 35:65
Fox 40:60
Falco 40:60
Pikachu 35:65
Charizard 55:45
Lucario 45:55
Jigglypuff 55:45
Greninja 35:65
Rob 40:60
Ness 45:55
Captain Falcon 40:60
Villager 35:65
Olimar 40:60
Wii Fit Trainer 40:60
Shulk 40:60
Dr. Mario 55:45
Lucina 40:60
Pac-Man 40:60
Megaman 40:60
Sonic 35:65
Mewtwo 35:65
Lucas 50:50
Roy 50:50
Ryu 35:65
Cloud 35:65
Corrin 35:65
Bayo 35:65
Mii Brawler 45:55
Mii Swordfighter 50:50
Mii Gunner 45:55

 

[Abbey Street]

I didn't have a whole lot of time to elaborate on my earlier post due to time constraints. However I did up a chart that amalgamates my own list with thoughts from the community.

EDIT: I think I'm going to switch DK with Diddy on this.

 

[Koskinator]

Im the hardest matchup for ganon
Who'da thunk it

 

[Opana]

S tier
Pikachu 35:65
Rosalina 35:65
Luigi 35:65
Sheik 35:65
Zero Suit Samus 35:65
Sonic 40:60
Bayonetta 40:60

Despite having the same ratios I believe they're all a little harder than the previous, so yes I think Pikachu is our most difficult. And I gave Sonic/Bayo a lower ratio but I still see them as a huge threat to Ganon and a small notch below ZSS/Above the others.

In these MUs we do okayish in

Mario 40:60
Little Mac 40:60
Ness 45:55
Shulk 45:55
Rob 50:50

Might do more later, ordered worst to least worst.

Imo

 

[adom4]

I'm not really confident in rating too many match ups so i'm gonna stick to the ones i'm a bit more confident in (the ones in brackets are ones i'm iffy about):

Very hard: ()
Rough: ()
Close:()
Good: ()

 

[MezzoMe]

Cannot tell the exact number, but I'm pretty confident that the Luigi match-up is quite doable to an extent.
Peach is between 55:45 and 60:40 in her favor
Sheik is surely 30:70
LM and Charizard are even, though I don't know why Yoshi should be
I think that Rosa is 95:5, and that :5 is only due to the chance of you getting an super hard read out of your ass at full rage and kill her at 80% or shift to the advantaged state for similar effects, but for the most part you aren't going to break through neutral state, same story breaking through her advantage. In simple words:

• She can give Ganon a really hard time countering platform camping, air camping and scrooging, depending on the stage
• She has the unique ability to split the radius of her CQC and mid-range combat in two, and no matter wich is the one who is fighting Ganon head on, it results in a chunkload of pressure
• As long as she stays in your mid-range combat, she is able to cut both wizkick and side B with her Bair, sometimes with RAR and sometimes not, same story for her Side B, though the spacing is different and is punishable on shield(Luma gets punished at least), even more pressure
• Even after reaching to the long awaited CQC, you need to read her option, some of them are safe against shield and other stuff
• To the neutral of the sheik neutral, there is also the recoverying comparable to the Bayonetta match-up, just that no early Up B above her Nair is gonna save you as her ledge trapping options just cut everything you have, she can even just react to your Up B and Dair
• She can just throw out random LL Nairs, LL Bairs, Dairs, FSmashes in neutral for random kills
• USmash and Uair can do that, but are punishable on reaction and not only with a hard read

Hope to have been clear enough as to why I gave such a score
Speaking of that, Bayo is most likely 40:60

 

[adom4]

Cannot tell the exact number, but I'm pretty confident that the Luigi match-up is quite doable to an extent.
Peach is between 55:45 and 60:40 in her favor
Sheik is surely 30:70
LM and Charizard are even, though I don't know why Yoshi should be
I think that Rosa is 95:5, and that :5 is only due to the chance of you getting an super hard read out of your *** at full rage and kill her at 80% or shift to the advantaged state for similar effects, but for the most part you aren't going to break through neutral state, same story breaking through her advantage. In simple words:

• She can give Ganon a really hard time countering platform camping, air camping and scrooging, depending on the stage
• She has the unique ability to split the radius of her CQC and mid-range combat in two, and no matter wich is the one who is fighting Ganon head on, it results in a chunkload of pressure
• As long as she stays in your mid-range combat, she is able to cut both wizkick and side B with her Bair, sometimes with RAR and sometimes not, same story for her Side B, though the spacing is different and is punishable on shield(Luma gets punished at least), even more pressure
• Even after reaching to the long awaited CQC, you need to read her option, some of them are safe against shield and other stuff
• To the neutral of the sheik neutral, there is also the recoverying comparable to the Bayonetta match-up, just that no early Up B above her Nair is gonna save you as her ledge trapping options just cut everything you have, she can even just react to your Up B and Dair
• She can just throw out random LL Nairs, LL Bairs, Dairs, FSmashes in neutral for random kills
• USmash and Uair can do that, but are punishable on reaction and not only with a hard read

Hope to have been clear enough as to why I gave such a score
Speaking of that, Bayo is most likely 40:60

I'm sorry but i don't think you realize what a 95-5 MU is.
It's a MU where you lose on the god damn character select screen.
Rosa is bad but it's nowhere near unwinnable, 95-5 is usually a MU where you get infinited or something.

 

[Z1GMA]

I'll look into this later.

 

[MezzoMe]

I'm sorry but i don't think you realize what a 95-5 MU is.
It's a MU where you lose on the god damn character select screen.
Rosa is bad but it's nowhere near unwinnable, 95-5 is usually a MU where you get infinited or something.

Probably. It remains that the only thing that makes the match-up remotely playable is only one and is the chance of you break into the CQC with several reads and land one more final read to shift the balance of the game in your favor. Is that an istance to skew the match-up of a :5? Maybe, but the concept is still that, and I cannot see this alone making over :20 of the match-up

 

[adom4]

Probably. It remains that the only thing that makes the match-up remotely playable is only one and is the chance of you break into the CQC with several reads and land one more final read to shift the balance of the game in your favor. Is that an istance to skew the match-up of a :5? Maybe, but the concept is still that, and I cannot see this alone making over :20 of the match-up

Her super light weight, height & an exploitable recovery are big weaknesses, as much as she janks us hard we can jank her too.

 

[MezzoMe]

Her super light weight, height & an exploitable recovery are big weaknesses, as much as she janks us hard we can jank her too.

That's what I meant with "shifting from neutral to advantaged state"

 

[Xinc]

An approximation. Some of these come from my own opinion, such as why I put Ryu as a slight advantage. I welcome you to ask me any questions. I'm open for debate.

In retrospect, I'm starting to think ROB should be around 50-50 though.

 

[MezzoMe]

Now I'd really like to know the deal with Yoshi and TL being even

 

[Xinc]

Now I'd really like to know the deal with Yoshi and TL being even

For Yoshi, before, Yoshi could pressure our shield and moves we throw out easily, and wall us out. That changes now, since we have a few moves that are safer. We can also kill Yoshi a little faster now. The increased range of choke also allows us to net a lot of followups, since Yoshi has a slow roll.

For TL, the projectile stuff isn't really a big deal, since TL's options on hit confirm are fairly linear. The projectiles aren't fast, so it's easier to powershield. Once we get in, TL has a big problem - we'll rack up a lot of damage. He's light, so he'll die fairly easy. Also TL has worse landing options than we do.

 

[super fan bros]

The MU of Ganondorf for me:

 

[Ray_Kalm]

The MU of Ganondorf for me:

View attachment 108670

Interesting view point.

 

[Opana]

I believe Bayonetta is definitely 65:35 rather than 60:40 after fighting some competent post patch ones

I also think Cloud maybe be a contender for our worst match up vs someone well versed in the mu. I'm tempted to put him at 70:30 because he canget away with so muchand exploit our weaknesses better than anyone imo. Vs Sheik and others I feel like if we use our strengths right and make an excessive amount of reads we can win, vs Cloud I feel that but to a lesser extent. Maybe I just need more exp since you guys did beat the Cloud discord lol.

 

[Z1GMA]

From best to worst in each tier.
note: I'm not sure about Mewtwo, Metaknight and ZSS, after their buffs and nerfs.

*edit: I see now that I put Link, TL, Mega Man and Samus in wrong Place - they should be in a tier inbetween SLIGHT and DIS.
I'll corrent this and reupload later on.

 

[super fan bros]

From best to worst in each tier.
note: I'm not sure about Mewtwo, Metaknight and ZSS, after their buffs and nerfs.

I don't agree on multiple characters:

Captain Falcon has a bigger advantage against Ganondorf. He has the combo, the rapadity, the recovery and a better game aerial.
Donkey Kong has a bigger advantage. DK has also of combo, better recovery, the spike, he is heavierand not much less powerful than him.
Mario has a bigger advantage. He has the combo, the recovery and. he can edgeguard easily with his cape
Fox has a bigger advantage. He has the combo, the recovry, a projectile and he is a lot faster.
Ike has the matchup. He is faster, the combo, better recovery and a power slightly lower.
Bowser has the matchup. He is faster, can easily edgeguard, flammetrother, better recovery, heavier and a power even.
Mewtwo has the matchup. He is faster, the combo, edgeguard, a projectile and a better recovery.
Ganondorf has not the MU against Wario and Bowser jr also.

Here is. After, there is others MU than I don't agree as Kirby who has the MU, Cloud who has a bigger advantage or Marth/Luicna who are the MU. I know than I repeat often, but the combo, the recovery and the rapidity are the more important I think.

 

[Litany]

From closer to Ganon's advantage on the left, to opponents' advantage on the right.

 

[super fan bros]

From closer to Ganon's advantage on the left, to opponents' advantage on the right.

Ganondorf has not the MU against the doc, Kirby and Roy. Maybe he has the MU against Jiggs (and again).
Bowser, Little Mac, Link, Ness, DDD, and Shulk are the MU against Ganondorf. It's sûr.
Zelda is has 50-50.
Samus, Fox, Falcon; Yoshi, Mario, R.O.B, Ike and Peach are a bigger advantage.
Palutena has a smaller advantage.
Bayonneta has a smaller adavantage (thanks 1.1.6 lol)

The rest I agree overall

 

[Koskinator]

the rapadity

 

[Z1GMA]

super fan bros , keep in mind that this is about personal MU Ratios.
You are free to comment on others' ratios, but it's really not necessary, since it's supposed to be personal.
Please leave the final ratios for Kalm to sum up.

So, here I thought we could post our personal matchup ratios

Xinc @Adom Z1GMA

Would love to learn this "the combo", though.

 

[Koskinator]

DK has also of combo

 

[super fan bros]

ok i'm sorry

 

[Twoyears]

From best to worst in each tier.
note: I'm not sure about Mewtwo, Metaknight and ZSS, after their buffs and nerfs.

*edit: I see now that I put Link, TL, Mega Man and Samus in wrong Place - they should be in a tier inbetween SLIGHT and DIS.
I'll corrent this and reupload later on.

Cloud's placement is interesting. I've always thought he was always a pretty bad match up for us. Why do you think he's only slight disadvantage?

 

[adom4]

Cloud's placement is interesting. I've always thought he was always a pretty bad match up for us. Why do you think he's only slight disadvantage?

We have good strings on him, he's rather vulnerable offstage & a poor tech roll make this MU not completely horrible.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

We have good strings on him, he's rather vulnerable offstage & a poor tech roll make this MU not completely horrible.

I hope I could agree with you, but Cloud outlasses Ganon in almost everyway. He's amongst our worst.

 

[adom4]

I hope I could agree with you, but Cloud outlasses Ganon in almost everyway. He's amongst our worst.

Everything's relative lol.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Everything's relative lol.

He doesn't need to approach, and has many counteractive measures to stop Ganon's approach. He can also stop Ganon's strings fairly easily, Ganon shouldn't be landing combos more than 2 hits apart from after dthrow, while Cloud strings and juggles Ganon with uairs very easily. Cloud also has good gimp options against us, and kills us fairly easy for a superheavy weight (at around 120% or so) and Limit makes it all the much easier for him.

We should not overestimate Ganon's capabilities here. One thing Ganon does vs him compared to other top tiers is the ability to punish his mobement mistakes aside from retreating jumps fairly well (rolls, forward dj and spotdodge).

 

[Blobface]

Eh, I'd say Cloud is about ZSS level. Not really one of "the worst", but still bad. Like ZSS he has all kinds of nasty stuff, but also some really exploitable weaknesses. The poor sap just dies offstage. He's got no good way to stay away from you, he doesn't really have a good aerial to defend himself (all of his aerials have one problem or another) and he'll likely die from a single hit. That said, I'm curious what makes you think he has an easy time in disadvantage onstage. What allows him to break out of Ganon's strings to easily?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Here is my personal Ganon MU spread. People might be greatly confused by a lot of these Matchup ratios so I'll provide some general reasoning for each. Feel free to comment on this if you disagree.

Spoiler: Slight Advantage

60:40 MUs

Jigglypuff: Ganondorf has significantly larger hitboxes on many of his moves, meaning that Jigglypuff will have somewhat of a hard time getting in. His much greater damage and power is also really scary for Jiggs to deal with since she can die in only a handful of hits. That being said once jiggs gets in, she can be very threatening for Ganon to deal with due to her ability to easily gimp him, so this MU isn't free at all.

Spoiler: Even

50:50 MUs

Dedede, Zard: Ganon has better frame data than these guys and can get some nice coversions off of DA and FC. He can also juggle them pretty easily due to their low airspeed. That being said, he struggles against various things in these MUs, such as Dedede's disjoint and Zard's mobility.

45:55 MUs

Luigi: Ganon's Safety on Luigi's shield is the main reason I feel this Matchup is 45:55. He also is decent at juggling and edgeguarding Luigi. However, Ganon really struggles dealing with Luigi's superior frame data and combos.

Doc , Kirby: Ganon outrange them and can edge guard them easily. Ganon has a lot of trouble dealing with their frame data and combos however and can be easily edge guarded by them himself.

Toon Link: We cancel out his projectiles with DA, outrange him, and can juggle / edge guard him easily. However, his barrage of projectiles will still be very problematic for dorf and combo game with U-Tilt and Bomb can rack up a lot of damage.

Meta Knight, Yoshi: From my experience, both these characters struggle with approaching dorf and fear his high damage output / range and FC conversions. They still have much better frame data and mobility and can easily gimp dorf however.

DK, Bowser: They struggle landing vs Dorf and like other SHeavys, they aren't fond of dorfs conversions off of DA and FC. However, Their U-throw combos and intangible tilts are very hard for dorf to deal with.

Spoiler: Slight Disadvantage

Will Update this section with comments soon!
60:40 MUs

Little Mac: Pressures Ganon heavily with his safe, powerful tilts and Smashes. Its pretty difficult to break through his defenses effectively with these moves. Once Ganondorf does break through, he can rack up large amounts of damage against Mac and potentially KO him via juggles and edge guarding.

Falco: Has really strong conversions off of u-throw and can edgegaurd and juggle ganon efficiently. His frame data and cqc options are also much stronger than Ganon's. Luckily, he has a very exploitable recovery and while his range is much better than most other combo based characters, its still not as good as ganon's.

Corrin
Samus
Roy
Ness
Lucas

65:35 MUs

Mario
Shulk

Marth, Lucina: They both have incredible range on their normals and aerials and much better frame data than dorf. Their conversions off of Fair, D-Tilt, and Jab are pretty scary for him to deal with and they edge guard him effortlessly with Fair and Bair. Ganon outranges them on a few moves and has more reward, but his inability to approach leads me to believe this MU is in Marcina's favor.

Greninja, Mewtwo: They have really strong and fast projectiles that force Ganon to approach, large disjoints on a majority of their moves, high damaging combos, and almost ungimpable recoveries. Their frame data isn't exactly the best however and they struggle dealing with Ganon's DA.

Zelda
Pikachu
C. Falcon
Megaman
Olimar

Spoiler: Large Disadvantage

70:30 MUs

Sheik: She can camp us pretty hard as well with needles. Untouchable recovery, significantly better frame data, and a very potent combo and edge guard game means that ganon will have a tough time getting and will take massive damage from her onslughts. That being said, she dies in only a few hits, meaning that its very dangerous for sheik when Ganon does get in. The large hitboxes of Ganon's moves also means sheik needs to precisely space her moves to avoid getting hit.

Fox: Can Camp with lasers and combo us into oblivion off of his DA and U-Tilt. That being said, he dies really early like sheik and is very vulnerable to Ganon's edgeguards due to his poor recovery.

ZSS: Has much better frame data and mobility than Ganon and can edge guard him effortlessly while also avoiding being edgegaurded herself. That being said, she's very light like sheik so she can easily be killed in a few hits. Dash attack and wizkick are also somewhat hard for her to deal with from my experience.

Diddy: Can wall ganon out with Fair, deal heavy damage with his combos, and has numerous kill setups off of Banana and D-Tilt against Ganon. He needs to be careful if ganon gets hold of his banana however.

Ryu: Combos Ganon into oblivion and can kill him very early with his safe aerials and KO Confirms. Ganon has significantly larger hitboxes however, so ryu needs to be careful when spacing his moves.

80:20 MUs

Sonic: Can runaway for the entire Match after he gets a percent lead and we really can't due anything about it. He has much better frame data as well and can do a lot of damage off of his combos. Edge guards us really hard too.

Cloud: Juggles us really badly with U-Air, can camp with limit easily, and edge guards us real hard. Non-Limit Cross Slash can stop nearly every one of Ganon's approaches and limit Cross slash kills him very early.

Rosalina: Juggles us very hard with U-Air and Ganon really can't get in due to Luma.

 

[Koskinator]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa
We dont go even with dk

 

[Litany]

I honestly don't think there are any match-ups in Smash 4 that are worse than 70:30. 80:20 in Brawl were match-ups where you'd expect to get chain-grabbed from 0-100%, that sort of thing. Just my opinion though.

 

[super fan bros]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa
We dont go even with dk

Because it's the only character than you don't agree?

 

[Z1GMA]

Me saying Cloud doesn't have a huge advantage on us is, well, based on my personal experience(s).
He does beat us in neutral, no doubt, but once we win neutral, we can do some nice stuff to him - especially off stage.
In some scenarios, Cloud's recovery is worse than Mac's.