Ganondorf has been so much fun

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
318
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#1
I gotta say, Ganondorf is the most fun I've had with a character in this game. I love to frustrate people with my jab, ftilt, dtilt, and nair when they get too close. Then when they try to space, I love the down special to close that gap. I find that side special just isnt as effective due to the shorter range. Yes I know down special is very punishable, but ill take the trade off as a good mixup in order to throw my opponent off guard a bit. I also find that projectiles will punish this move, but with some practice and wisdom, you can use his aerials to effectively avoid projectiles.

Fsmash is so dang fun. I KO'ed a Zelda at like 70% on pictochat with < 1 second left in a match to win. (I'm planning on posting a video of that later!) In FFA quick matches, I love to initiate a neutral special as im falling, then clobber someone once I land. And finally, that stomp is just so dang satisfying. Are you on the ground? Ill stomp ya. Are you in the air? Ill stomp ya. Are you off stage? You better expect the stomp!

On top of it all, he's so heavy that it takes forever to kill him. Yeah, his recovery is a bit rough, but he makes up for it everywhere else!
 

Tsant

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
9
Location
Deep in the Heart of Texas
#2
This is now a Ganon appreciation thread and I am okay with it.

His Fair is the absolute most satisfying KO move to me - barring the Warlock, on the rare occasion that it lands. Gan's edgeguarding game in general is the reason I took him up to begin with.
 

Wiinner159

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
8,931
Location
Watching the world burn
NNID
Make a guess...
3DS FC
2251-6491-9042
#4
You know what else is a really fun tool that got buffed into usefulness?

Up B
It's risky as heck but man is it satisfying to get a kill off the edge with that baby.
Also loving that full super armor on warlock punch, gotten a couple random KOs with it against some very aggressive players.
And while basically unchanged from 4, gotta still give credit to the good 'ol dair spike, nothing else feels so satisfying I swear
 
Last edited:

$.A.F.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
419
Location
The Plant Gang HQ
#5
This is now a Ganon appreciation thread and I am okay with it.

His Fair is the absolute most satisfying KO move to me - barring the Warlock, on the rare occasion that it lands. Gan's edgeguarding game in general is the reason I took him up to begin with.
No love for Volcano Kick?
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#6
I just wish the Smashes were back to the old ones instead of the lame Sword moves. Then he would be perfect.
 

King9999

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
234
Location
Ontario, Canada
NNID
mmking9999
3DS FC
2105-8754-7747
Switch FC
2722-8799-3295
#7
I just wish the Smashes were back to the old ones instead of the lame Sword moves. Then he would be perfect.
I disagree, the new Smashes are great. I love the range they provide, and the damage they do is insane, especially side smash.

Everyone should be using Up B more in neutral. Make the opponent think twice before using their shield.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#8
I disagree, the new Smashes are great. I love the range they provide, and the damage they do is insane, especially side smash.

Everyone should be using Up B more in neutral. Make the opponent think twice before using their shield.
They just don't gel with his up-close playstyle at all. Super Armoring his old Smashes would have worked much better.
 

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
318
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#9
No love for Volcano Kick?
I love the volcano kick!

I just wish the Smashes were back to the old ones instead of the lame Sword moves. Then he would be perfect.
I really enjoy his smashes in this game. A huge buff in my opinion.

They just don't gel with his up-close playstyle at all. Super Armoring his old Smashes would have worked much better.
Super armoring his old smashes would probably buff him way too much. They're not like the warlock punch which takes time to come out and time to cool down.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#10
I love the volcano kick!



I really enjoy his smashes in this game. A huge buff in my opinion.



Super armoring his old smashes would probably buff him way too much. They're not like the warlock punch which takes time to come out and time to cool down.
How would armoring his old smashes be excessive? USmash's endlag aside, they came out very slowly.
 

King9999

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
234
Location
Ontario, Canada
NNID
mmking9999
3DS FC
2105-8754-7747
Switch FC
2722-8799-3295
#12
Nothing feels as good as gimping someones recovery with a reverse U-air. I never see other Ganons attempt this on me though.
Might be because we forgot about it, or because u-air isn't as active as it used to be, and there are better edgeguarding options IMO, like n-air.
 

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
318
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#13
How would armoring his old smashes be excessive? USmash's endlag aside, they came out very slowly.
What character today has any armored smashes? King K Rool has the armored dsmash but I dont know many more than that. If you super armor them all, I feel like that creates an opportunity to just spam smashes and ignore knockback in exchange for landing any smash timed correctly. I can imagine that edgeguarding would just turn into dsmashes and fsmashes with Ganon.
 

$.A.F.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
419
Location
The Plant Gang HQ
#14
What character today has any armored smashes? King K Rool has the armored dsmash but I dont know many more than that. If you super armor them all, I feel like that creates an opportunity to just spam smashes and ignore knockback in exchange for landing any smash timed correctly. I can imagine that edgeguarding would just turn into dsmashes and fsmashes with Ganon.
Cough Cough, MAC.
 

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
318
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#16
Cough Cough, MAC.
I had no idea! Neat!
Mac is a special case because he has no ability in the air. I do think it would be cool if Ganon had armor on other moves, like Wiz Foot.
Good point. Although because of the lack of recovery, Mac is viewed as the worst character in the game.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#17
What character today has any armored smashes? King K Rool has the armored dsmash but I dont know many more than that. If you super armor them all, I feel like that creates an opportunity to just spam smashes and ignore knockback in exchange for landing any smash timed correctly. I can imagine that edgeguarding would just turn into dsmashes and fsmashes with Ganon.
Maybe not on every frame of animation, but it could probably work if only the late frames get armor.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#19
No thanks. After 15+ years of that garbage F-Smash, the new one is ridiculous and very welcome
Your opinion, man. The old smashes were much more fun to land than these big, dumb, sweeping smashes. It actually took mental skill.
 

Dimir

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
14
#20
Ganon is all about big, dumb moves. I liked his old up smash and down smash in previous games, but his old forward smash was always underwhelming and didn't really reward you for the effort.
 

$.A.F.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
419
Location
The Plant Gang HQ
#21
Your opinion, man. The old smashes were much more fun to land than these big, dumb, sweeping smashes. It actually took mental skill.
If you were using “mental skill”, then you wouldn’t be going for smashes with old Ganon. At least it’s actually viable to use them now.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#22
Ganon is all about big, dumb moves. I liked his old up smash and down smash in previous games, but his old forward smash was always underwhelming and didn't really reward you for the effort.
How is a brutal, stylish elbow strike less fun than a big sword swing literally ripped from Ike?
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#24
The old f smash was ripped from falcon. Your point?
Falcon got a new F-Smash for Ultimate, and Ganondorf's elbow strike was brought into Twilight Princess. There was literally no reason to replace such a fun move with something so dumb.
 

$.A.F.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
419
Location
The Plant Gang HQ
#25
Falcon got a new F-Smash for Ultimate, and Ganondorf's elbow strike was brought into Twilight Princess. There was literally no reason to replace such a fun move with something so dumb.
Fun vs dumb is highly subjective for one. And even then, many people loved the changes to his kit. Far more than they disliked it. And whether or not the move was brought over to TP, it doesn’t change the objective fact that it was ripped from Falcon. And ‘no reason’? Ganon getting his sword was one of the most requested changes to his character and it was met with consistently positive feedback. Honestly I think you are taking no opinions into account besides your own. This would have been fine if this was just an imo thread, but you’ve consistently said that stuff is dumb, had no reason for implementation, etc. without evidence.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#26
Fun vs dumb is highly subjective for one. And even then, many people loved the changes to his kit. Far more than they disliked it. And whether or not the move was brought over to TP, it doesn’t change the objective fact that it was ripped from Falcon. And ‘no reason’? Ganon getting his sword was one of the most requested changes to his character and it was met with consistently positive feedback. Honestly I think you are taking no opinions into account besides your own. This would have been fine if this was just an imo thread, but you’ve consistently said that stuff is dumb, had no reason for implementation, etc. without evidence.
People also said that Ganon getting his sword would alienate his faithful players, and it's happening now.

It's not like it's the first time; it may be good at edgeguarding, but no one considers FLUDD a more fun move than the Mario Tornado.
 

$.A.F.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
419
Location
The Plant Gang HQ
#27
People also said that Ganon getting his sword would alienate his faithful players, and it's happening now.

It's not like it's the first time; it may be good at edgeguarding, but no one considers FLUDD a more fun move than the Mario Tornado.
If you look at any reveal reactions or the majority of comments about it, it receives positive feedback. You’re honestly the first “faithful player” I’ve seen alienated as evidenced by this thread.
 

Boartobewild

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
168
Location
Austria
#28
If you look at any reveal reactions or the majority of comments about it, it receives positive feedback. You’re honestly the first “faithful player” I’ve seen alienated as evidenced by this thread.
Don't bother, that's his stick he keeps pulling.... The one thing I will agree with though, is that the elbow makes way more sense for Ganon, than Falcon not only for being canon, but also for having better frame data. Seriously the comical Sword smash's range doesn't really justify it being this slow. Due to the changes to pivots, where I am used to it defaulting to F-tilt in Smash 4, I got punished far more often than needed.

The other smashes have their solid place (though I wish that old U-smash kicks utility got perserved in some form or another) and uses in his proper, mostly rectified kit, but F-smash is a down grade. If it had gotten armor, much like Bowser's F-smash, Little-mac and what have you, that'd be fair Imho, considering how many intagible hitboxes or armored moves the other heavies have now in total.

Ganon in ultimate is definitely one of the most rewarding and satisfying versions of Ganon to play, but if I look at how much other chars got buffed and how aggressive and spacing oriented Ultimate shapes up to be, Ganon is gonna need quite a bit more tweaks and options than buffing the bare essentials and ironing out some of the most obvious flaws he's had since Brawl, while still completely ignoring his most glaring weaknesses, if Ganon is to stay in the mid tier, where everyone seems to place him.
 
Last edited:

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,476
#29
If you look at any reveal reactions or the majority of comments about it, it receives positive feedback. You’re honestly the first “faithful player” I’ve seen alienated as evidenced by this thread.
Argumentum ad populum fallacy. It still makes Ganondorf less fun since his sword moves look incredibly out of place with the rest of his moves.
 

$.A.F.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
419
Location
The Plant Gang HQ
#30
Argumentum ad populum fallacy. It still makes Ganondorf less fun since his sword moves look incredibly out of place with the rest of his moves.
Didn’t you literally use an Opinion fallacy to get to this point? You have not supported any of your claims about people disliking the changes. And considering this is a thread about popular opinion, my previous claim is not any sort of ad populum.
 

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
318
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#31
Yesterday I played a friendly match at a local tourney against a Lucina. I hear Lucina's friend tell him "watch out for that fsmash'. I did not fsmash the entire match. I won!

I will reiterate "GANONDORF HAS BEEN SO MUCH FUN!" (with or without fsmash)
 

Boartobewild

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
168
Location
Austria
#32
Yesterday I played a friendly match at a local tourney against a Lucina. I hear Lucina's friend tell him "watch out for that fsmash'. I did not fsmash the entire match. I won!

I will reiterate "GANONDORF HAS BEEN SO MUCH FUN!" (with or without fsmash)
I hope I didn't put down the mood with my text wall, the real reason I can't seem to share the enthusiasm of everybody so far mostly boils down to me not getting as much time to enjoy/test Ultimate as much as I would like as well as having not enough incentive to invest in Nintendo's sorry excuse for Online.

That and whenever I do get to play with friends, I keep switching to a lot of other Fun characters, so I'm most likely nowhere near good enough with Ganon to make accurate claims yet. Really the greatest shame is that Ultimate couldn't come out much sooner, am I right?

That being said, since Ganon is apparently the most played char in Elite smash, which gives me hope that they will make good observations and make even more meaingful & necessary tweaks, what are your guys impressions so far of Ganon's viability and overall improvements compared to Sm4sh?
 

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
318
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#33
I hope I didn't put down the mood with my text wall, the real reason I can't seem to share the enthusiasm of everybody so far mostly boils down to me not getting as much time to enjoy/test Ultimate as much as I would like as well as having not enough incentive to invest in Nintendo's sorry excuse for Online.

That and whenever I do get to play with friends, I keep switching to a lot of other Fun characters, so I'm most likely nowhere near good enough with Ganon to make accurate claims yet. Really the greatest shame is that Ultimate couldn't come out much sooner, am I right?

That being said, since Ganon is apparently the most played char in Elite smash, which gives me hope that they will make good observations and make even more meaingful & necessary tweaks, what are your guys impressions so far of Ganon's viability and overall improvements compared to Sm4sh?
You're good dude! I appreciate you sharing your opinions! I just posted that because I thought it was funny that the discussion started to shift towards his fsmash, yet I went through that experience the other day without his fsmash!

I think the biggest reason hes the most played char in elite smash is because of his fsmash though. The speed may not be the fastest, and it may be punishable, but the range is outrageous and the knock back is too. If youre playing on a small map like yoshi's story or yoshi's island, you can get KOs at low %s around 60 - 90 % depending on the character. Thats a huge advantage over a lot of other characters which require more skill and patience for higher % KOs.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,683
Location
Oklahoma
#34
Nothing feels as good as gimping someones recovery with a reverse U-air. I never see other Ganons attempt this on me though.
Because uair isn’t remotely as good as it was in 4.

Believe me I’ve tried to get uair gimps in ultimate, it just doesn’t reliably work on most characters anymore most of the time. He lost the late low hitbox, the knockback overall on the sour spot isn’t as good, many other moves more easily outreach it, virtually everything about his uair was neutered in ultimate. Which really annoys me because, yeah sure lots of other things got buffed, but id give up a lot of em for the old uair.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom