Ganon main looking for critique/input[VID]

UiritheGuri

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
2
Been playing ganon casually for half a year and trying to get better, below is a link leading to a couple sets i played at a local, I'll give you the timestamp.

http://www.twitch.tv/mattatari/v/41548224

Set 1: 01:27:00

Missed all my chain grabs, was nervous, let a couple edgeguards down instead of grabbing edge, no reason to, am i throwing too many aerials out or not spacing well enough?

Set 2: 02:17:00

One of my practice partners, he usually plays marth or ganon, but i heard in the commentary/chat that i wasn't grabbing at all, so i guess that would mean i should have? It just feels like i cant get near falcon without spacing an aerial or a tilt, and getting in for a grab seems impossible.

Appreciate all tips man, on any bad habits or anything, as well as things im doing right, and things im doing poorly at/things i should do.


- a local ganon
 

DCW

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Georgia
I watched the first set. You're right about how you should have just grabbed ledge. I would say your spacing needs work in general, but since that's such a vague diagnosis, here are some more specific recommendations.

First of all, forget about the spacies chaingrab for now in your smash career. I am actually one of the biggest proponents of the chaingrab on these boards, but only as an advanced technique for experienced players. I don't mean this dismissively--recently I myself have spent less time on the chaingrab and more time on Ganon's other grab followups, because I realized my basics were lacking. Yours are too. Get these grab followups down first: jab to regrab/another jab/techchase, stomp, down smash, etc. For more details about the grab followup basics, consult this excellent guide by -ACE- -ACE- and/or watch videos, of Kage for instance. You will find yourself getting way more percent off a grab once you master these basics. At that point, move on to the spacies chain grab.

Another significant point is that you do full hop > double jump >aerial a lot in neutral. Sometimes this is good, but you do it too much. You should add in short hop aerials (i.e. shuffled aerials) to your repetoire, and use them extensively.

A related issue is that you're drifting forward as you do these aerials, which leaves you open to being hit. Generally, Ganon should not be too aggressive, because his moves are too slow to allow him to be aggressive safely. For instance, when you come out with a fair, Fox can dash dance away from the hitbox and then return to you while you're still in the ending animation. Practice fading back as you do your aerials, as this is much safer. Specifically, try fade back fairs, both short hop and full hop double jump. Afterwards, do the same thing with upairs. These two moves, when used while drifting backward, will help you keep out Fox, who right now seems to be able to get past your defenses pretty quickly.

Lastly, wavedashes and wavelands. I see you've practiced incorporating wavelands into your game, which is great. Keep up the work, since you're still missing and air dodging sometimes. However, you need to wavedash! Wavedashing is Ganon's fastest grounded movement option and is essential for moving around and adjusting your position in neutral.

Those are four things I would recommend focusing on. Hopefully that helps.

 
Last edited:

UiritheGuri

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
2
I watched the first set. You're right about how you should have just grabbed ledge. I would say your spacing needs work in general, but since that's such a vague diagnosis, here are some more specific recommendations.

First of all, forget about the spacies chaingrab for now in your smash career. I am actually one of the biggest proponents of the chaingrab on these boards, but only as an advanced technique for experienced players. I don't mean this dismissively--recently I myself have spent less time on the chaingrab and more time on Ganon's other grab followups, because I realized my basics were lacking. Yours are too. Get these grab followups down first: jab to regrab/another jab/techchase, stomp, down smash, etc. For more details about the grab followup basics, consult this excellent guide by -ACE- -ACE- and/or watch videos, of Kage for instance. You will find yourself getting way more percent off a grab once you master these basics. At that point, move on to the spacies chain grab.

Another significant point is that you do full hop > double jump >aerial a lot in neutral. Sometimes this is good, but you do it too much. You should add in short hop aerials (i.e. shuffled aerials) to your repetoire, and use them extensively.

A related issue is that you're drifting forward as you do these aerials, which leaves you open to being hit. Generally, Ganon should not be too aggressive, because his moves are too slow to allow him to be aggressive safely. For instance, when you come out with a fair, Fox can dash dance away from the hitbox and then return to you while you're still in the ending animation. Practice fading back as you do your aerials, as this is much safer. Specifically, try fade back fairs, both short hop and full hop double jump. Afterwards, do the same thing with upairs. These two moves, when used while drifting backward, will help you keep out Fox, who right now seems to be able to get past your defenses pretty quickly.

Lastly, wavedashes and wavelands. I see you've practiced incorporating wavelands into your game, which is great. Keep up the work, since you're still missing and air dodging sometimes. However, you need to wavedash! Wavedashing is Ganon's fastest grounded movement option and is essential for moving around and adjusting your position in neutral.

Those are four things I would recommend focusing on. Hopefully that helps.
Thanks a lot man, that's the best player at our locals, I've beat him before but nervous every tim, I just throw out too many fairs while he's dash dancing and get punished. I'm also trying to use tomahawk/waveland back or forward jab/ftilt. I'm a complete noob and don't take offense to it lol, I've just played friendles casually and now I'm trying to get better so ALL help is appreciated. If fox is wave shining me across the stage, what can I do besides di? Thanks
 

DCW

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Georgia
I would recommend holding down R and pressing right or left on your C-stick. This will buffer a roll, which means that on the first frame you are out of hitstun, you will shield and then initiate a roll in the direction you press. Since a roll takes only 4 frames before it becomes invincible, this is a good way to escape. You won't be able to escape a truly perfect waveshine this way, but if they mess up at all you can escape.

(Would other players agree with this? I've found it very helpful, but maybe it's not a good idea for some reason. Input appreciated.)

Another method is to SDI (smash DI) the shines in the opposite direction that the waveshine is taking you. That means if you are being waveshined to the right, smashing the controller left at the exact moment you are shined. This has the potential to put you just to the left of Fox during hitstun so that when the shine knocks you back, you go left instead of right, and hopefully the Fox doesn't react quickly enough.

I would recommend just doing the first method I mentioned for now since it's easier, but let's see what other people have to say.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,534
Location
The back country, GA
SDI is where it's at. A lot of times you can escape with one SDI input away, especially if the shine barely hits you (tipper spacing). But you only want to SDI away near center stage. Stage control is too crucial vs Fox. Most cases, 2 successful SDI's behind is best. It at least forces them to read your DI. They'll have to waveshine forward once and then backwards to follow you. Then you can mix in SDI away if need be. Just don't let yourself get cornered by ledge.
 
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