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Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

Travitoninja99

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I really like the counter, it's by far the strongest one in the game. Like any counter, we shouldn't abuse it, otherwise our opponents will catch on and punish

Is waiting until the Dragon Lunge cancels a viable option? I am not sure if we can tech-chase if the opponent can get out during it.
Unfortunately no. If someone isn't mashing out of it, they just haven't realized it yet, so in competitive play it's not viable.

Also, I really wish that you could act out of the DL jump faster, it's so slow
 

Andrew McKernan

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I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but how do you guys feel about Corrin's matchup with Rosalina? I feel like the range of his F-smash would be good for getting rid of Luma, but I'm not sure about how I'd use his other moves against her.
 

OceloT42

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I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but how do you guys feel about Corrin's matchup with Rosalina? I feel like the range of his F-smash would be good for getting rid of Luma, but I'm not sure about how I'd use his other moves against her.
DL and Fsmash are literally anti Lumas.I can handle her no probs.
Can someone list the advantages of the dair? At best I can say it doesn't have as much lag as Tune Lonk (you know who I mean). I'm a bit annoyed it doesn't meteor properly.
 
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Mr. Potatobadger

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Can someone list the advantages of the dair? At best I can say it doesn't have as much lag as Tune Lonk (you know who I mean). I'm a bit annoyed it doesn't meteor properly.
I can explain dair use! And it's definitely not what you'd think it'd be...

You know that thing where someone with a stall-n'-fall dair will do their dair and they stay in place? Knowing when that happens is a godsend for Corrin. Imagine having a multihitbox just out. That's what it is. It's amazing. No one can touch you when coming from below. Knowing when this happens is the reason I don't get completely bodied by clouds, because it beats out his up air.

Speaking of which, does anyone else have trouble fighting Cloud with Corrin?... I just can't seem to beat any clouds with Corrin regardless of the Cloud's experience level. My hardest MU so far.
 

DrakeRowan

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Something I've been doing is SH Fair to DL. No idea if its worth doing, but it's a mix up that's been working well for me, the pin usually catching them and it's easy to kick away if they block it.
I've been having fairly good success with this. SH Airdodge to DL pin has been working nicely for mixups, too.
How does everyone feel about offledge counters to snuff recoverys with hitboxes? I've gotten some pretty sweet kills doing this.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Woe betide you if your recovery has a hitbox though... RIP half the cast.

Along those lines - look out for the Sheik downB recovery habits for extra horizontal distance. They make themselves quite punishable.

There are a tonne of places for completely safe usage of our counter. Platform dragon lunge into counter against a needle camping Sheik on dreamland entertained me today.

We can get somewhat creative. There's a lot of room for experimentation.
Too bad that Counter won't always activate if fighters aim for the ledges.
 

OceloT42

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I can explain dair use! And it's definitely not what you'd think it'd be...

You know that thing where someone with a stall-n'-fall dair will do their dair and they stay in place? Knowing when that happens is a godsend for Corrin. Imagine having a multihitbox just out. That's what it is. It's amazing. No one can touch you when coming from below. Knowing when this happens is the reason I don't get completely bodied by clouds, because it beats out his up air.

Speaking of which, does anyone else have trouble fighting Cloud with Corrin?... I just can't seem to beat any clouds with Corrin regardless of the Cloud's experience level. My hardest MU so far.
I don't have trouble against Clewd. Just send them of ledge and suddenly Fsmash and DL are their worst nightmares.
 

FlyingMelons

Smash Rookie
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Nov 25, 2015
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I love playing Corrin. Here are my thoughts on his/her game from MY experience.

-Short-hop nair in neutral is incredibly risky. It's so easy for your opponent to shieldgrab you during the landing lag. However, it's occasionally a good opener for something substantial.

-Neutral B is also relatively risky, especially if you fully charge it. If you manage to land a decent hit, then you could follow it up with a dash attack or a forward smash at higher percents. If you end up missing and your opponent decides to approach, don't forget about the second close-quarters hit that you could use to keep them away. If you miss the second hit though, you're usually wide-open for attack. I oftentimes use Corrin's neutral-B after landing an aerial combo, and if I space it right, I can keep the combo going by stunning them in midair.

-Side-B is very situational in my opinion. The options presented to you after pinning yourself to the ground are decent, but be sure you know your plan of action beforehand so you're not just a sitting duck. Also, landing a perfectly spaced tipper Side-B is very satisfying.

-Corrin's counter is bull****. I have KO'd a Wario at 50% after countering a nair. Granted, we were in the air, but still, it's absurdly good.

-Up-B isn't too good in my opinion. If you hit an opponent at high-percent on the top level, it mostly likely will kill, but at the same time, the vertical recovery portion is pretty lackluster. Angles are everything in my experience. Try to go for ledge to avoid getting punished from landing on-stage.

-Generally speaking, Corrin's aerial game is great. Bair is a great horizontal kill move at higher percents, and the same can be said for uair for vertical kills. Dair is a little difficult to use effectively though.
 

Uffe

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There is something I learned today (not a Corrin main), and it kind of reminded me of R.O.B.'s Gyro > u-smash on opponents getting up off the ledge. With Corrin, I stood somewhat near the edge and charged f-smash. We all know Corrin's f-smash, while being charged, hurts anyone who touches him. So I did this to my opponent after he got up off the ledge, stunned him with f-smash, then released and killed him. For anyone who has never thought about doing this, now you can try yourself. Just don't make it predictable.
 

Skitrel

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Too bad that Counter won't always activate if fighters aim for the ledges.
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying, I've never had an issue but it may simply be because we have a different execution method. Could you elaborate?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I'm not sure I follow what you're saying, I've never had an issue but it may simply be because we have a different execution method. Could you elaborate?
When fighters perform third jumps, they may try to grab hold of the stage ledges. That ends up canceling the third jump's hitboxes, as the fighter transitioned over to grabbing the ledge.
 

NINTENDO Galaxy

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When fighters perform third jumps, they may try to grab hold of the stage ledges. That ends up canceling the third jump's hitboxes, as the fighter transitioned over to grabbing the ledge.
Cloud can only snap the ledge with limit break up-b or his model is on top of the ledge when he uses his default up-b. Many recoveries throw out a hitbox that travels below stages a fair distance (especially battlefield), thus making counters from the ledge fairly easy to land (unless Kamui's counter whiffs). I'm going to have to test that on cloud this weekend.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Cloud can only snap the ledge with limit break up-b or his model is on top of the ledge when he uses his default up-b. Many recoveries throw out a hitbox that travels below stages a fair distance (especially battlefield), thus making counters from the ledge fairly easy to land (unless Kamui's counter whiffs). I'm going to have to test that on cloud this weekend.
Still, some counters take longer to execute than others, such as with Shulk's Vision. Even when Vision blocks an attack, it takes a while for the counterattack to begin, which can actually cause it to whiff if the opponent successfully grabs a ledge.
 
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NINTENDO Galaxy

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True, but I've hit clouds several times with my counter.
 
D

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I question why you would take the time to attempt to counter Cloud's non-limit-charged U-B when you can just stand back and tipper DL or Fsmash and kill Cloud that much earlier.

Regardless of Counter's ridiculous knockback multiplier the top of Cloud's U-B doesn't do enough for the counter to kill Cloud early enough to the point that it would be better than tipper Fsmash or DL.

Like, just have good timing onstage and Cloud should not come back to the stage if he has to use non-limit Climhazzard.
 

NINTENDO Galaxy

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Lol I do cuz I have not been able to consistently land the f smash through the ledge. So instead I push him away from the ledge then proceed to fair and stuff recovery that way. It's just my preference.
 

PK Gaming

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General discussion thread is thattaway

It's good that you're enthusiastic about the character, but I feel like you should exercise a bit more discretion before posting a thread.
 

Funkermonster

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How hard do you find it to instantly pin to the ground with SideB and double tap B? Personally, I try to tap as fast as I can but I still can't do it very consistently atm.
 

WondrousMoose

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How hard do you find it to instantly pin to the ground with SideB and double tap B? Personally, I try to tap as fast as I can but I still can't do it very consistently atm.
The easiest way to do it is to press B and then A quickly. It'll let you use the attack as quickly as possible without forcing you to spam the button, which gets tiring after a while.
 

NINTENDO Galaxy

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How hard do you find it to instantly pin to the ground with SideB and double tap B? Personally, I try to tap as fast as I can but I still can't do it very consistently atm.
Use Z instead of B or A, the original post is buried a few pages back.
 

Reizilla

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I find it's easiest to slide from B to A. Unless I'm trying to buffer an instant pin out of shield. In that case, since it won't read the A input until after the hop, I just mash B as quickly as possible.
 

DrakeRowan

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What's the frame count on DL's insta-pin anyway; specifically, the earliest it can come out when sliding your finger from B to A? It seems very fast.
 

Skitrel

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iirc, F7. 4 for the hop, 3 for the pin.
Is there a source for that? I've never seen anything that has quantified the frames lance takes to come out after the hop, only the hop being 4 frames and the lance part being unlisted or 10 frames if used in the air after a jump.

Sounds like a useful resource that's got a bit more to it than other more visible ones.
 

OceloT42

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I cannot stress how good DFS and DL are. Of course, I might be just easily impressed.
Praise whoever thought of giving the bite and shot separate charges. It's such good bait to toss an uncharged shot and charge the bite. They just run towards you and get torn apart.
Also, the above technique stalls you in air at almost the same place you start it, so go for a surprise edgeguard.
DL is a beautiful tool for ground control, and you can bait approaches by just hanging in midair, and look swag while doing it.
Don't always go for the kick though, it's pretty readable. Even the jump has a window where you can't do anything. If you're gonna use DL for recovery, use it low, or else where you can ledge snap, otherwise you are meteor fodder.
Also a last thing,bair is good for edgeguard,RARs and recovery. Especially recovery, keep using it.
These are just my observations after playing for a while, please feel free to spot mistakes and correct me.
Just my salt, but I feel the recovery should be going straight up by default, and allowing you to angle it as you wish.I keep b reversing the move even though I know that I have to let the move buffer.
 
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IndigoSSB

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I need some help with stage counterpicking, after maining Falco, a vastly different character, for so long I'm struggling knowing what stages I should strike or CP to.
 

Fex13

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I need some help with stage counterpicking, after maining Falco, a vastly different character, for so long I'm struggling knowing what stages I should strike or CP to.
most important thing first: dont go on lylat...this stage screws your best move up (side-b), i hate it
and i find that stages with platforms are generally good for corrin, since you can cover almost all options once your opponent is above you.
town and city is a very good stage, since the ceiling is low( your throws are going to kill earlier) and you can control the platforms very well.
on FD you are subsceptible of getting outcamped by characters like villager. with platforms you can move around faster and more confusing for the other player. but FD is still ok, just not the best stage for corrin.
 
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ThatNintendoDude

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I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but how do you guys feel about Corrin's matchup with Rosalina? I feel like the range of his F-smash would be good for getting rid of Luma, but I'm not sure about how I'd use his other moves against her.
Rosalina is one of the matchups I struggle with playing TL and Ness. But I played a couple Rosalina's last night and was able to handle them and actually feel comfortable doing so. Really digging this character.
 

Jellyfish4102

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Does anyone have any more tips for fighting Cloud besides edge guarding him? I can't seem to be able to deal with his range.Its the hardest match up for me.
 

GoldenMapleLeaf

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Have any of you used bair to delay landing? Like in a situation where someone tried to edgegaurd or gimp you, I used bair to keep my spot in the air for a splitsecond.
 

NINTENDO Galaxy

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Have any of you used bair to delay landing? Like in a situation where someone tried to edgegaurd or gimp you, I used bair to keep my spot in the air for a splitsecond.
I will have to try that.

Right now the only other thing I can thinm of for Kamui is to utilize the range beyond the spark during f-smash. You never know who'll be caught offguard by it.
 
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D

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Have any of you used bair to delay landing? Like in a situation where someone tried to edgegaurd or gimp you, I used bair to keep my spot in the air for a splitsecond.
I usually bite-stall (that is, no charge on DFS projectile, varying but usually no stall on DFS bite) since the stall effect is more prominent for the mid-air bite than it is for Bair.

Yes the end frames of DFS's bite mean that you'll drop a Full Hop distance before you can jump again or Dragon Ascent, but the distance lost is actually (incredibly, like (a small number of) pixels in terms of height difference if you don't or only very slightly charge the bite; the distance is more notable if you fully charge the bite) similar to Bair since Bair not only pushes you forwards but also pushes you downwards.

So then it becomes a question of whether you want to stall in place or stall (vertically) slightly less and then shift forwards (read: A question of whether you want to DFS bite-stall or Bair stall). Which, could actually be of some importance since a Bair could very well push you into whatever hitbox the edgeguarding opponent is throwing out.

The option choice still generally depends on the situation of course but these are just my thoughts.

---------------------

I will have to try that.
Right now the only other thing I can think of for Kamui is to utilize the range beyond the spark during f-smash. You never know who'll be caught offguard by it.
The edit button is your friend, please refrain from double posting.
 
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ARGHETH

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Is there a source for that? I've never seen anything that has quantified the frames lance takes to come out after the hop, only the hop being 4 frames and the lance part being unlisted or 10 frames if used in the air after a jump.

Sounds like a useful resource that's got a bit more to it than other more visible ones.
That's just what I've heard. According to Kurogane, the lunge comes out F4 out of DL's hop. It doesn't say how quick the hop is, unfortunately, but the pin as a whole is F10 at the latest (F4 pin and F6 hop, with F6 being Corrin's SH time).
 

Skitrel

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That's just what I've heard. According to Kurogane, the lunge comes out F4 out of DL's hop. It doesn't say how quick the hop is, unfortunately, but the pin as a whole is F10 at the latest (F4 pin and F6 hop, with F6 being Corrin's SH time).
I thought so. Lots of "I've heard" as opposed to an actually frame demonstration.

I'd really like someone to get a lab video of this slowed down to be absolutely certain. It's fast but I'd like to know exactly how fast for frame advantage decisions against specific matchups. Do not have the facilities myself to test it.
 

Empyrean

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So I've been messing around with ways Corrin can punish the 2-frame ledgesnap window, and i've found she has some interesting options at her disposal, some more straightforward while others require insane precision. I haven't tested every single move though, I sadly don't have enough time cuz of midterms. All my tests were done on a CPU Sheik in training mode, set on Stop and 85%. Front hit of dsmash at the edge of FD sends Sheik at a low enough angle where she'll have to up-b to recover from a fair distance away, making it easier to hit the snap without the timing changing too much.

First up, hitting the snap with nair is braindead easy; dropzone nair, rising nair, no need to space or time cuz of how big and long the move is. Very low reward though.

Fair and bair require some timing but are still fairly easy to connect. Bair can stage spike if they miss the tech, and fair sends them high like nair does.

I've found that the DFS bite is a good option to punish the ledge snap, specially due to how the charge stalls. Even if it might not stage spike, it still does damn good damage and can kill across the stage at higher percents. In Sheik's case, I've had most success landing the move by releasing the bite just a bit after the first explosion sound effect. Also this might have been mentioned already but after using DFS once in the air, the next bite won't stall at all, regardless of whether you charged the first bite or not.

Now on to DL.

It's probably the move with the most reward as a potential ledgesnap punish (great angle, power and damage) but, in my experience, the hardest to time. I've also only tested aerial DL, I'm not sure if Instant Pin hits low enough to catch the snap. After some testing on Omega Coliseum with the CPU Sheik set at 85%, I managed to hit the 2-frame window with the most success by standing in the 2nd square (about 2 character lengths) by the edge of the stage, jumping as Sheik is in Vanish startup and using Side-b just a bit after Sheik disappears. Everytime I successfully connected side-b, I was pinned right near the ledge, with the tip of the lance passing through the stage.

I also went through the trouble of testing full hop dair, and the results...are quite interesting. Although it's important to note that this move in particular should be tested with another player, because it might just as well not work on a human player with any shred of reaction time and DI. Connecting the dair was actually easier than i expected, and even one hit sometimes meteored (as in played the meteor sound effect) at higher percents. When buffering jump right after, I was able to consistently footstool Sheik, whether she jumped herself or not. If you miss the footstool, trying to recover back normally can drag the opponent with you, potentially stage-spiking them with up-b, otherwise doing decent damage (+10% with some hits of dair and up-b). However, some quick tests on Mario showed that he could up-b while Corrin was still in dair lag (?? i think so, at least) but it was still possible for her to recover. So i have some doubts as to how practical this setup is, that's why it'd be cool if some other people could test it as well.

Amusingly enough, with this same setup, dair > (jump) dair appears to be possible (shows up as true in training mode) but might be inconsistent and will of course kill. Good for style points.
 
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Deleted member 189823

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How do you cancel the Pin once you've pinned your opponent down? You know, without jumping I mean.
 

ARGHETH

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How do you cancel the Pin once you've pinned your opponent down? You know, without jumping I mean.
There's no way to cancel the pin without waiting as far as we know, unfortunately.
 
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