Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[I speak Spanish too]

Any tips for buffering angled side tilts and side smashes? Or just performing them in general?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Any tips for buffering angled side tilts and side smashes? Or just performing them in general?

practice it until it becomes second natue.

 

[Shaya]

Try to ensure you are not pressing shield at any point during the controller tap.

 

[Barrelrolls220]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. i really don't know what character is the easiest to play. alot of people say that yoshi is easy to play with because of his shield and his grab. but then people say samus is good (which that isn't true at all). So does anyone know about this? because i really want to know. because i know marth and ganondorf aren't really easy to main but i don't know. So do you have any ideas of the easiest smash character to main? let me know!

BTW - I don't know if this is in the right section of the forums because i'm really new here.


Thank you for reading Take Care!

 

[Zorthax]

The easiest to main is probably whoever you have the most fun playing.

However if you have fun with a lot of character and you're not really bothered, I'm thinking Cloud might be the easiest to main, especially right now with people not knowing how to fight all his play styles yet. Cloud (I'm pretty sure) has the longest range of all the sword fighters, and he even has a projectile, so as long as you're able to keep a good distance you'll probably do pretty well. The most complicated thing to learn with cloud is mastering his limit break, which still isn't that hard.

 

[AvengerV]

There is no easy character to automatically make you win. You have to put a huge amount hours of practice to do well with any character. If you understand the fundamentals of competitive smash bros and know what each character does then every character is easy to use, however doing well with the character is a different story because you will have to study match ups and all of that which takes a lot of time.

 

[Zenithia]

I'd say it's really subjective as to who is the easiest character. Most sword characters come naturally to me, but I find some of the "easy" hand-to-hand combat characters (such as Little Mac) very difficult to use. It's all based on your playstyle, honestly. I suggest you try out a few characters that each come from different categories (speed characters, powerhouses, etc.) and go from there. After you do that, my best advice is to decide what kind of range you like to attack someone from. That way, you can choose whether you like projectile characters, swordsmen, or hand-to-hand guys.

Hope I helped.

 

[DunnoBro]

It all comes down to who's easiest to kill with, honestly. Characters who put all the hard stuff like edgeguarding, neutral, and reads on the other player because they're tuned around way fewer qualities, and the goal of this game is to kill so easier killing methods transfer a lot to overall ease. (Ness, Cloud, Bowser, etc)

I'm sure there are those who would like to disagree (primarily mains of these characters) but while difficult to grasp the reality of it, there HAVE to be characters that are easier to use than others. And this is the most objective way we can go about figuring out who those are.

 

[Electrix]

Hey guys,
So today I was on Twitch a lot and decided to join MySmashCorner's list because he was streaming. Long story short: I got bodied. So my question is this: how do you deal with players that don't make nearly any predictable or punishable mistakes?

I've been told there's a natural RPS to Smash; attack beats grab, shield beats attack, grab beats shield, etc. But I'm having trouble getting this down when people spotdodge my every grab, roll or shield even when I use my safest aerials, and get grabs or a dash attack the moment I inevitably miss.

Is there a simple way to force your opponent into making risky moves or get hit? Projectiles don't work because they can just shield them all and roll in. Aerials don't work because they can just shield it and punish my landing. Not approaching at all doesn't work because otherwise they'll dash in and do 1 of 3 things:
A) If I sheild, they grab.
B) If I attack, they jump and airdodge.
C) If I grab, they do an aerial.

So is there a way to counter this kind of thing when your reaction time is slow and your opponent knows their stuff? How can I relieve pressure without putting myself at risk? These are questions that plague me as I play the game, hopelessly attempting to get in my zone or just get lucky with a bad player.

 

[ligersandtigons]

is it cool to post videos of my gameplay here to get some critique and advice?

if so, heres a link to my channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgizuTDM8mUfFJs8WXRyVHw/videos

 

[Stryker95]

Hey guys,
So today I was on Twitch a lot and decided to join MySmashCorner's list because he was streaming. Long story short: I got bodied. So my question is this: how do you deal with players that don't make nearly any predictable or punishable mistakes?

I've been told there's a natural RPS to Smash; attack beats grab, shield beats attack, grab beats shield, etc. But I'm having trouble getting this down when people spotdodge my every grab, roll or shield even when I use my safest aerials, and get grabs or a dash attack the moment I inevitably miss.

Is there a simple way to force your opponent into making risky moves or get hit? Projectiles don't work because they can just shield them all and roll in. Aerials don't work because they can just shield it and punish my landing. Not approaching at all doesn't work because otherwise they'll dash in and do 1 of 3 things:
A) If I sheild, they grab.
B) If I attack, they jump and airdodge.
C) If I grab, they do an aerial.

So is there a way to counter this kind of thing when your reaction time is slow and your opponent knows their stuff? How can I relieve pressure without putting myself at risk? These are questions that plague me as I play the game, hopelessly attempting to get in my zone or just get lucky with a bad player.

It all comes down to experience and mastery of a character. You can't really say "do this and it works" because there is always a counter to anything. Good players are good not so much because of reaction speed as it is because they have more experience. I am sure if you were to rewatch your matches with the guys at MSC you would notice that they did not always guess right but they were able to read what you were able to do or simply beat you to doing something. Each character has different ways of relieving and applying pressure, I would look at your characters boards for specifics.

http://smashboards.com/threads/two-sides-of-the-same-coin-pit-dark-pit-meta-game-discussion.369080/

 

[luckysharm]

Thinking of heading out to S@X, just a few little worries
It's only 40 minutes away and its about the only local scene there is in my area. Only thing is that I'm unfamiliar with the area and apparently Baltimore is murder/crime/drug trade center. Any advice people have before going?

 

[deepseadiva]

............

 

[CHOMPY]

I played Vinnie in top 32 last night at Dismantle 2. He told me my biggest strength is my patience game. However, my biggest weakness is applying pressure in general.

What I am looking for is someone to tutor me on how to apply pressure in general, so I can try to incorporate that more into my gameplay. Other top players in my region have told me the same thing....

 

[thelustykhajiit]

So does anyone know how to tech more easily because i find it hard to do. Also i have trouble doing dash dancing.

 

[Stryker95]

So does anyone know how to tech more easily because i find it hard to do. Also i have trouble doing dash dancing.

Teching just comes with practice. The timing isn't too hard but it can seem so if you are new. As far as dash dancing it is rather difficult in Sm4sh, see My Smash Corners video for this. Otherwise it is just practice, practice, practice. If you are playing Zelda than dash dancing is not really worth anything.

 

[thelustykhajiit]

Teching just comes with practice. The timing isn't too hard but it can seem so if you are new. As far as dash dancing it is rather difficult in Sm4sh, see My Smash Corners video for this. Otherwise it is just practice, practice, practice. If you are playing Zelda than dash dancing is not really worth anything.

Sorry but another question. Any tips for going against kirby?

 

[Stryker95]

Sorry but another question. Any tips for going against kirby?

Check the Zelda MU Thread. It is on page 20, post #780. This is where you should spend your time when trying to learn a character.

 

[LancerStaff]

'Ello~


I've been wondering on how I can improve my edgegaurding and gimping ability


I've realized that my ability to do some magic offstage is actually almost non-existent heh

It's either that I don't do it at all or I accidentally go too deep and they recover over me


I know that learning your opponent's patterns are a big thing but even then I still don't have the guts to do it. Even though I know my character can go the the bottom of Battlefield and still make it back to the ledge in one piece

And whenever I do try it I go too deep or they counterattack with an aerial that has a disjoint or something like that


So help would really be appreciated~

First step is being confident offstage. Even if you know you can basically have coffee and doughnuts offstage and still make it back, it doesn't mean much if you get butterflies five inches out. That's mostly practice and some labbing if you're not familiar with how your Uspecials work with the underside of the stage. Another thing is that you need to understand the frame data on your aerials... Pit's Nair can end up killing yourself if used too low, for example. Not generally a problem for Pit though because Dair and Bair have really fast FAFs, but Rosalina I'm not sure about.

If you're having trouble using a Dair offstage you should probably switch to a tilt stick, and use it of course. It's a lot harder to accidentally fastfall.

 

[thelustykhajiit]

is there any person that is willing enough to battle me and show me things like my flaws? Or just someone to help me get better.

my nintendo id is willfavs

 

[Shaya]

I played Vinnie in top 32 last night at Dismantle 2. He told me my biggest strength is my patience game. However, my biggest weakness is applying pressure in general.

What I am looking for is someone to tutor me on how to apply pressure in general, so I can try to incorporate that more into my gameplay. Other top players in my region have told me the same thing....

Simple building blocks for that:
- Contemplate baiting, doing things that make your opponent do something while you're presumably safe.
- Don't get hit while still making movements and keeping within a certain area in which you have immediate options (like say, a dash attack or dash grab).

Pressure is control. Pressure is making your opponent second guess and respect you.

If your entire cohort of opponents up until now has mostly been defeatable through patience (i.e. I'll always just punish them being bad/acting out second), it's going to take a lot to get away from that, but it's necessary to advance towards being a high/top level player. Perhaps another thought would be to consider what hits you do get and question whether that was the opponent messing up/doing something stupid or yourself outplaying them. This is where you need to realise the difference between baiting and you punishing people failing to punish you.

 

[Electrix]

- Contemplate baiting, doing things that make your opponent do something while you're presumably safe.

CHOMPY this is one of the best spacing tools but it's hard to break habits. Some players always land with an offensive aerial and they get shielded/outranged. Maybe they never short hop air dodge, or they commit to an unsafe aerial when the opponent has shield abilities.

If you can create pressure via movement alone, you can bait a lot of panic-based but unsafe attacks/shield actions.

 

[mario123007]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. i really don't know what character is the easiest to play. alot of people say that yoshi is easy to play with because of his shield and his grab. but then people say samus is good (which that isn't true at all). So does anyone know about this? because i really want to know. because i know marth and ganondorf aren't really easy to main but i don't know. So do you have any ideas of the easiest smash character to main? let me know!

BTW - I don't know if this is in the right section of the forums because i'm really new here.


Thank you for reading Take Care!

The easiest character to play has to be Mario. But keep in mind that he may be easy to use, but he still requires a lot of practice.

 

[Dr.Smex]

Hey I don't know if this is the right place to ask or not but whatever.
I'm still confused how does DI-ing works in smash 4? How do I survive longer? where should I do DI to reduce knockback? Do I always DI to the center of the stage or what?
Thanks in advance and sorry if it's asked in the wrong thread.

 

[Stryker95]

Hey I don't know if this is the right place to ask or not but whatever.
I'm still confused how does DI-ing works in smash 4? How do I survive longer? where should I do DI to reduce knockback? Do I always DI to the center of the stage or what?
Thanks in advance and sorry if it's asked in the wrong thread.

DI towards the stage when knocked horizontally and DI towards the corners when knocked vertically. Check out MSC's video.

 

[realmwars]

So I'm currently trying to iron out all my bad habits and become a more competent Smash 4 player. I realize I have so many problems with my playstyle and I'm hoping maybe there's a way to help me practice these either on my own or if I need someone to work on these.

What I'm hoping to learn is to

Tech more
Perfect Pivot
Dash Dance
Spot dodge more
Get better with short hopping (mainly to extend my combo game)

and that's about it.

The characters I main are Palutena, Ness, and starting now Kirby.

I'm ok with Palutena's combo game but for the end lag on some of her moves really end up screwing me over than anything else.

Ness is a character I've become more competent with than I expected to although I seem to have the hardest time trying to hit anything with his up air, that and I can't seem to PK thunder in a straight path for the life of me (As in PK Thundering straight up, down, left, and right)

and Kirby I recently just got back into so I'm just looking for a place to start.

Thanks for taking the time out to read my ramble.

 

[Beto]

Hi, My name is Beto, a Smash player like you, from Veracruz, Mexico, recently I was very interesed in Competitive Smash, its really fun and interesting, and I play competitive with random people and in FG, but I want hot on this, I want know about tournaments, more forums, clans, any place, online site, way, thing for improve my Smash ability for the competitive game.
Also, we can be friends in my Wii U, and play Smash U and other games(I get Splatoon, Mario Kart 8, Xenoblade X and Mario Maker(for sharing levels and ideas, etc) )my ID is: gorilla_dude_123. If you play with me, give me your best, literally torture me, I learn better from my mistakes,defeats and intense battles.
For every recommendation and ideas , I thank you

 

[ぱみゅ]

Where exactly in Veracruz? I know of a couple kids from the State, but I am not sure if they are close to you.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

Does anybody have tips for practicing inputs to achieve the maximum level of competence.(second nature) I have been practicing via https://www.random.org/lists/ and I'm open to know the best way to maximize my time in the dojo.

 

[BlueX]

So I'm currently trying to iron out all my bad habits and become a more competent Smash 4 player. I realize I have so many problems with my playstyle and I'm hoping maybe there's a way to help me practice these either on my own or if I need someone to work on these.

What I'm hoping to learn is to

Tech more

One of the ways you can practice this is to make a tech practice stage. In stage maker make a box but on the top of the box leave a gap where you can escape. Inside cover the walls with lava but leave the floor as you will tech there.

Perfect Pivot

Perfect Pivoting involves flicking the analog stick left to right or right to left VERY fast. This video may help:

Spoiler

Dash Dance

Dash Dancing in Smash 4 is useless. There is alternatives however like Fox-trotting and Extended Dash Dancing which could work.

Spoiler

Spot dodge more

Spot dodge involves tapping down on the analog stick when holding the shield. It can be used to dodge grabs and strong smash attacks or any attacks in general. Use it as a mix up option.

Get better with short hopping (mainly to extend my combo game)

Short Hop involves tapping ether X/Y or up on the analog stick. It depends how fast you have to tap X/Y or up on the analog stick but since you main Palutena it could be easy to short hop. Try doing SH into N-air or SH into Fair.

 

[FGC-Oni]

Does anyone have any tips for fundamentals of the game in general? I have no problems learning characters and combos and stuff like that. My struggle with fighting games in general is more in the neutral and stuff like that. I run sets with my brothers when I'm not playing online. My first problem is that they're hit and run type players and since it's a 3 man FFA they tend to do cheap stuff like two Ness' spamming PK Fires things like that. One of them is really hard to get in on for some reason.

I try to dash attack - Shielded and punished
I try to dash grab - rolls away or flat out attacks
I try to use projectiles - easily shielded

Like no matter what I do my brother seems to have an answer to everything. I mean I vary my approach I don't just blindly rush in and throw out attacks. I try to use tilts based on my distance from him and stuff like that. Plus whenever I do get in he just rolls a lot so I can't even hit him and gets out again. He's also kinda decent at edge-guarding. Maybe I should spend more time in the lab.

It kinda sucks cause I've been an avid fighting game enthusiast for years learning characters and combos and stuff like that over various games. I used to practice for hours. Yet my brother who never practices just picks up a controller and stuffs me every single time.

For reference My top 5 mains as of right now are , , , , &

My brother plays , , , , a few others as well but these are his regular picks.

I just can't seem to really do anything useful when he picks these characters I get rekt every time.

 

[ZafKiel]

I try to dash attack - Shielded and punished
I try to dash grab - rolls away or flat out attacks
I try to use projectiles - easily shielded

Like no matter what I do my brother seems to have an answer to everything.

If he has an answer for everything, then have an answer for his answer. I've been in the same situation before so I kind of understand. No one's forcing you to approach so if you really wanted, for a change, let him approach you. When I find that I have trouble approaching, I play the waiting game and look for the optimal punishment. If you guys really play that often, try to learn his habits. If you dash attack, he shields. So why not pretend you're going to go for the dash attack but end up grabbing him while he shields?

I'm sure you have the means of beating your brother. I think maybe you just need to start thinking out of the box a bit more. Learn some mix ups and as always, put in the lab time. The neutral isn't just about knowing a decent combo, it's also about knowing all your options and picking the most optimal one.

Hope this somewhat helps, I'm going through the same thing right now too LOL

 

[Daxter]

Unusual problem here. I can't stand any of the control systems on the Wii U version of the game. I've tried Gamecube, the Gamepad and borrowed a friend's Pro controller. They all feel disconnected, unresponsive and loose. On the 3DS I find it easier to concentrate as the buttons are so close to the screen (if that makes sense?), and I find the shoulder buttons and circle pad much easier to work with.

The trouble is I can't use the 3DS controller on the Wii U version online. What's the closest alternative to the 3DS on the Wii U version?

 

[Stryker95]

Does anyone have any tips for fundamentals of the game in general? I have no problems learning characters and combos and stuff like that. My struggle with fighting games in general is more in the neutral and stuff like that. I run sets with my brothers when I'm not playing online. My first problem is that they're hit and run type players and since it's a 3 man FFA they tend to do cheap stuff like two Ness' spamming PK Fires things like that. One of them is really hard to get in on for some reason.

I try to dash attack - Shielded and punished
I try to dash grab - rolls away or flat out attacks
I try to use projectiles - easily shielded

Like no matter what I do my brother seems to have an answer to everything. I mean I vary my approach I don't just blindly rush in and throw out attacks. I try to use tilts based on my distance from him and stuff like that. Plus whenever I do get in he just rolls a lot so I can't even hit him and gets out again. He's also kinda decent at edge-guarding. Maybe I should spend more time in the lab.

It kinda sucks cause I've been an avid fighting game enthusiast for years learning characters and combos and stuff like that over various games. I used to practice for hours. Yet my brother who never practices just picks up a controller and stuffs me every single time.

For reference My top 5 mains as of right now are , , , , &

My brother plays , , , , a few others as well but these are his regular picks.

I just can't seem to really do anything useful when he picks these characters I get rekt every time.

First of all, a 3-man FFA will just screw you over, don't worry about that, there is a reason we play 1v1 or 2v2. As ZafKiel said, mixups are what are important. To know the best way of approaching, check out your character's threads, Link's is here. Or, if you play as Link, force them to approach. Alot is just learning the matchups, hopethis helps.

 

[Stryker95]

Unusual problem here. I can't stand any of the control systems on the Wii U version of the game. I've tried Gamecube, the Gamepad and borrowed a friend's Pro controller. They all feel disconnected, unresponsive and loose. On the 3DS I find it easier to concentrate as the buttons are so close to the screen (if that makes sense?), and I find the shoulder buttons and circle pad much easier to work with.

The trouble is I can't use the 3DS controller on the Wii U version online. What's the closest alternative to the 3DS on the Wii U version?

Nothing asides from what you already mentioned.

 

[ecstasy]

I'm fairly new to the competitive scene, and I'm have some questions about frame data:

1. Should I only study my character's frame data? or should I study the full roster.

2. Do I really have to devote hours on end to studying the frame data?

3. How do I even study for frame data? Do I just look at it?

 

[ligersandtigons]

1) full roster

2) yes

3) check it out kuragonehammer, it's a website with everything you need to know for the most part about each characters frame date

For starting out, obviously get to understand you main(s) first. Mainly you just wanna focus on which frames attacks come out on, starting lag and ending lag. Basically this will give you an idea on which attacks of your are the fastest and slowest, which ones the riskiest etc.

 

[ecstasy]

How do I efficiently study frame data?

I don't feel like I'll be accomplishing much by looking at it.

I feel like studying the high tier characters and looking at how they work in game are a good start, but I don't think that it's enough.

 

[Wintropy]

How do I efficiently study frame data?

I don't feel like I'll be accomplishing much by looking at it.

You want to study it until you know it intuitively. Go to training mode and see how the animation fits with the data. You should be able to tell from observation (roughly) how fast a move is, and then be able to match that up against an opponent's options. You need to know a few things:

- Startup frames
- Duration or total number of frames
- Active frames (the frames that project a hitbox)
- FAF ("first active frames" - the soonest you can do something else after using that move)

And, if the move has any:

- IASA frames ("interruptible as soon as" - some moves can be canceled on a certain frame before its FAF)
- Autocancel frames (some aerial moves have these - if you land during a move's autocancel frames, its landing lag is negated entirely)
- Armour frames (the frames a move has super armour, meaning you won't flinch or take knockback).

There's quite a bit to take in, but studying it and remembering the data is the difficult part: when you have an idea of what's what, it's not that difficult to observe it in practice and see how it fits together!

It may help if you remember that there's 60 frames in a second. A move that comes out on f1 has startup of 1 / 60th of a second (virtually impossible to react to), a move that comes out on f6 has a startup of 1 / 10th of a second (possible to react to with good observation), etc. The lower the startup frames of the move, the better it is at trading with slower moves and the more difficult it is for the opponent to react to without predicting it, and the lower the FAF, the sooner the move finishes. You need to be able to make these decision very quickly, so it's a good idea to practice these moves and how they trade with others - preferably offline and with other people, so you can measure reaction times effectively.

Unless you're a calculation whiz like M2K, don't worry if you don't know every frame individually or can't think of every match in terms of numbers. It'd good to know frame data and to understand the technicalities of how each move works, but you shouldn't have to stop and think about it in the middle of a fight: you should just know it and be able to use it to your advantage, and it should be an instinctive thing. Knowing the data is good, but it doesn't mean much without practice!

 

[KittyKyat]

How do I stop taking every loss I take so seriously? I mean, I know I shouldn't because I'm forced to play online after all, due to location, but I keep getting overly emotional after every loss, taking every loss seriously like it means I'm the worst player ever. What should I do to stop taking these matches seriously?