Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Ultimastrike]

Been playing Smash with a competitive mind for about a year and a half or two years, and still can't perform even the most basic reads, know what to do in every situation....

What is a competitive mind?

 

[Gawain]

And what if you don't have options to play Locally? What if you don't have a chance to get in the Smash scene because of transportation? If you need to be there in person, then there's no real use to me understanding Smash as a whole online.

Well then you're kinda screwed haha. But I don't have a car, I still go to my tournaments. I ride the bus. Look up your region in the tournament section of the boards. See if you have any weeklies in your city or in a neighboring city. Get to know the members on the boards, see if you can't ride with someone else if you absolutely can't get there yourself. Some people drive really far to go to weeklies or regionals. It's just part of being a tournament player.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Well then you're kinda screwed haha. But I don't have a car, I still go to my tournaments. I ride the bus. Look up your region in the tournament section of the boards. See if you have any weeklies in your city or in a neighboring city. Get to know the members on the boards, see if you can't ride with someone else if you absolutely can't get there yourself. Some people drive really far to go to weeklies or regionals. It's just part of being a tournament player.

If it's part of being a tournament player, then I can't really do anything. Plus, would you get to know them? It's not like there's a Smash scene at all in Georgia...

 

[PingPongCop]

What is a competitive mind?

...competitively. It means competitively. Competitively doesn't necessarily mean going to tournaments, it means you don't really like to goof around with more of the party mode much. Basically, it means you like to play Smash with a sort of "tournament style" mindset. 1 v 1's, no items, you get the deal.

 

[Ultimastrike]

...competitively. It means competitively. Competitively doesn't necessarily mean going to tournaments, it means you don't really like to goof around with more of the party mode much. Basically, it means you like to play Smash with a sort of "tournament style" mindset. 1 v 1's, no items, you get the deal.

That...doesn't really clear anything up for me. I know I don't really like items, and I tend to do 1v1s, but really. What is a competitive mind?

 

[PingPongCop]

That...doesn't really clear anything up for me. I know I don't really like items, and I tend to do 1v1s, but really. What is a competitive mind?

What you just described. If you don't like items, you tend to go on For Glory and play 1-v-1's, then you like to play competitively. Sorry for the confusion. I hope you got alot more out of my original post than this, though.

 

[Ultimastrike]

What you just described. If you don't like items, you tend to go on For Glory and play 1-v-1's, then you like to play competitively. Sorry for the confusion. I hope you got alot more out of my original post than this, though.

To be honest, I forsake For Glory mainly because every stage there is FD and Omegas. I don't like it.

 

[PingPongCop]

To be honest, I forsake For Glory mainly because every stage there is FD and Omegas. I don't like it.

Well that's understandable. What I normally do is go on FG, and if I meet a cool guy then I friend him, invite him to a room, and we play there. Use your Tags to communicate to them. It's really neat

 

[Yong Dekonk]

All that happens a majority of the time is people just beating you out of everything? It feels like I'm worthless when it comes to Smash whenever I try and play against an opponent since all they do is roll all over the place, sit and wait, or just cheese you with Diddy Kong? I feel incompetent even and not tournament ready if I can't even be good at this game.

Just make sure you aren't doing the same thing over and over again with your character. Try playing less aggressively and focus on being patient and not making mistakes. Try to develop two or three characters to deal with different match ups too. I've gotten pretty frustrated a couple times in FG after losing repeatedly to Yoshi/ness/toon link/diddy to the point where I felt like I didn't like smash anymore.

Tonight I had a couple friends over and we played and it was really fun. Take a break from the grind of 1v1 and play with friends. That's what smash is really about.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Just make sure you aren't doing the same thing over and over again with your character. Try playing less aggressively and focus on being patient and not making mistakes. Try to develop two or three characters to deal with different match ups too. I've gotten pretty frustrated a couple times in FG after losing repeatedly to Yoshi/ness/toon link/diddy to the point where I felt like I didn't like smash anymore.

Tonight I had a couple friends over and we played and it was really fun. Take a break from the grind of 1v1 and play with friends. That's what smash is really about.

...What if I have no real friends? It's not like I can just say "Hey, can we be friends and Smash together?" that easily, since they could be complete strangers...especially on the internet.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

That's a tough spot, but there are probably smashers in your area and if you can meet them by attending a local tournament (who cares how well you do in the tournament?) or searching for smash facebook pages for your state you might be able to befriend them and hangout to play smash. If I didn't have friends in my area to play smash I don't think I would play the game tbh. There will always be better players on the Internet no matter what the game is.. But beating your friends is a little more attainable. I hope you find some people!

 

[NairWizard]

Well I'll just be blunt, it probably means you wouldn't do very well in a tournament setting either. The only way you'll get better is if you keep playing. And on top of that I really do feel like certain people just don't have the capability to be really good. There are tons of players who have been playing Smash forever, even in the competitive scene, and they just don't make progress. Not everyone can be top level because it's not just from practice.

My point is, practice will make you better but sometimes the other guy is just inherently a better player, even if he doesn't play as much. So don't worry too much about it.

To add: most of the time this is because of a poor reaction time. Your reaction time is genetically coded into you. You can't really be a top player without a top-level reaction time (even mew2king has a good reaction time, just not the best), so sometimes your genes are just working against you.

But you can definitely become a high-level player regardless of your genes.

 

[Ultimastrike]

To add: most of the time this is because of a poor reaction time. Your reaction time is genetically coded into you. You can't really be a top player without a top-level reaction time (even mew2king has a good reaction time, just not the best), so sometimes your genes are just working against you.

But you can definitely become a high-level player regardless of your genes.

That's easier said than done, you know. I'm just a scrubby mediocre player right now, and I don't really know much game mechanic wise other than what I've figured out(with some help, of course).

 

[ewic]

You need to assess why you're playing in the first place. If it's to make money, it will only be detrimental to your progress. If it's to make friends and have fun, perhaps just let loose a bit and try not to worry about losing as much. Or maybe you're in it for the personal development, and trying to be the best you can be, in which case you should take each game as a learning experience.

It sounds like you're in it to win it, but as the saying goes "Rome wasn't built in a day". It can be hard, but if you want to improve yourself, you have to set your ego aside and just play to learn. If in-person training won't work, I highly recommend finding some online practice partners. You can find lots of people to play with in places like:

-Smashboards (social threads, clans, or PM someone you think would be good to play with)
-NintendoDojo (check out the ladder there, or join the "Free Play" chat room and ask for matches)
-SmashLadder (this place offers ranked matches as well as friendlies with an easy-to-use interface)

Here are few things I recommend taking into consideration:

-Find the joy in improvement and don't compare yourself to others.
-Try not to auto-pilot in matches and think about how you can improve your game.
-Have fun. If you're not having fun, you won't last long.

P.S. If you're training and it's laggy, play with someone else. It's not worth your time.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Here are few things I recommend taking into consideration:

-Find the joy in improvement and don't compare yourself to others.

I have a hard time finding joy in improving...also, I don't understand sometimes why I have fun. How do you know you're having fun? It's hard for me to understand, let alone know when I am. Is it just when I'm winning? Or is it just because I'm doing decently? I don't ****ing know. Also, improving my game? I don't understand how to go about that either.

 

[NairWizard]

Start with pen, paper, and your character forum (including videos). Write down a strategy that you think will work against most characters, a general flowchart. This written strategy should begin with the opening of the match and last until the end of the match; right now you just want a general strategy; later, you'll develop alternatives for other stages and specific MUs.

As Pikachu, for example, my strategy might start with a full hop tjolt when the match opens. From there, see opponent's reaction and branch out. Did he block it? Did he jump over it? Is he approaching me?

-blocked it: throw another one, and this time run in and shield to gain space, because I know my opponent will pause to block
-jumped over it: consider running in with f-air or an up-air, as Pikachu's aerials are quick
-approaching me: dash in to avoid losing stage control, apply d-tilt pressure.

And then you want to further branch from each of those branches. For instance, to complete the "approaching me" flowchart, what does my opponent do in response to my d-tilts?

-blocked/dodged them: SH d-air because he'll either roll back or try to jab me between d-tilts
-rolled behind me: up-tilt
-moved back: continue applying pressure with f-air chase

Your strategy should include plans for what happens when you mess up, get hit, and end up in the air: do you drift toward your opponent, drift away, get away using some quick escape option that your character has? And then, what do you do when your opponent is offstage? Recovering high? Recovering low? Plan for all of it and write it down.

As you begin to apply your strategy you'll notice your fundamentals improving.

 

[ATH_]

I've got the same problem dude...sometimes I just feel worthless and not competant whatsoever. It's stupid because I know A LOT more than my skill and play shows. I can explain matchups, give tips, train, but my performance is baaaad. I play a ton and still have the issue, I can read strongly but I tend to get outsped by the opponent in situations where I will know what they are going to do but cannot throw the attack or counter out quick enough.

 

[MezzoMe]

That happens sometimes, I think you're suffering an emotional block.
When you get bodied and just try to fight back you are only going to get bodied harder.
Even something as simple as flicking the C-stick forward when an opponent rolls becomes problematic.
You must free yourself from just wanting to fight and take a step back.
Ask yourself

What was wrong with what I did?

This comes from the fact that if you are losing it means that you are doing something wrong, that always happens, you just don't pretend to be TAS-like and as such you do errors, and you must take them into account in order to not make them again.
A simple example is trying to shieldgrab or roll against Brawl Tornado Match.
A competitive fight requires you to be completely focused on your options and as a result, to think fast and consistently, something that hardly ever happens if you focus yourself on the lose rather than on the match.

Before I learned the parkour roll I injured myself on my legs, on my shoulders and, most prominent of all, my lower back.
Don't you think that that hurts?
Indeed it does
So I took a step back, I did repeat my action and analize them carefully, then I lurked and I found my errors.
Without taking a step back I would still be hurting myself, not everything you do is adequate in the first try, but it won't become so by himself.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I have a hard time finding joy in improving...also, I don't understand sometimes why I have fun. How do you know you're having fun? It's hard for me to understand, let alone know when I am. Is it just when I'm winning? Or is it just because I'm doing decently? I don't ****ing know. Also, improving my game? I don't understand how to go about that either.

If you don't find joy in improving, competitive games are not for you.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hello, I am going to pick up Smash 4. Last weekend, I've played it (and quite a lot, may I say...!) on 3DS, played a few matches here and there, generally sticked with 5 characters or so, those being, Bowser, Yoshi, Ike, DDD & Toon Link (whom I really like over here). I found myself pretty prominent with Bowser and Ike, but I am definitely interested in TINK and the other two.

Could you tell me what are the things I should have a heads up for? As in, a sort of CG or something that will likely complicate my game a lot (I heard things about Diddy's D-Throw, but it doesn't seem that bad...)? I have an upcoming tournament, which, will be the very first over here (for Wii U, by the by) and there's a ton of money on the line. I am quite confident, but I need to learn more.


Thank you for reading.


Also, forgot to say I may have ran into some trouble against Duck Hunt. At least, with characters without a projectile (Bowser & Ike), did fairly well with Yoshi. Any tips?

 

[mario123007]

Did you update? Updating your game is necessary for you to battle online. Go collect as many trophies as you can. And play Smash Run a lot in order to get many custom parts, Smash Powers, and equipments. At whole just train your main sometime.
Wow so you are going on a tournament? Hope you win!
I have no idea how to deal with Duck Hunt, he is my favorite character but I don't use him.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I don't have the game, either for 3DS or WiiU. Most, overe here, don't have it for WiiU, actually...and, no. Customs aren't really allowed.

Thank you.

 

[Ultimastrike]

If you don't find joy in improving, competitive games are not for you.

The thing with that is I don't know if I'm even improving. If I'm never improving, how am I supposed to know if I'm improving?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

The thing with that is I don't know if I'm even improving. If I'm never improving, how am I supposed to know if I'm improving?

When you make less mistakes.
When you start to get more reads.
When you get actually creative and can pull it off.

 

[MezzoMe]

The thing with that is I don't know if I'm even improving. If I'm never improving, how am I supposed to know if I'm improving?

Watch back to your past raplays and see if you still do the same mistakes and if your ways of doing things(such as recoveryng as ______ against ______ when you know that he's going to _________ or if you are uncertain of what he's going to do) are safer/ have more reward/are more adequate than before.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Watch back to your past raplays and see if you still do the same mistakes and if your ways of doing things(such as recoveryng as ______ against ______ when you know that he's going to _________ or if you are uncertain of what he's going to do) are safer/ have more reward/are more adequate than before.

You almost make it sound like I need to learn how to hard read someone.

 

[dragontamer]

All that happens a majority of the time is people just beating you out of everything?

Keep playing. You're getting better.

Your opponent is too though, so it's unlikely you'll "catchup" unless you get playtime with other opponents. That's the key, playing against the same person over and over is an exercise in masochism if you're a weaker player.

Playing a variety of players helps, especially when you get more practice time than your rival.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Keep playing. You're getting better.

Your opponent is too though, so it's unlikely you'll "catchup" unless you get playtime with other opponents. That's the key, playing against the same person over and over is an exercise in masochism if you're a weaker player.

Playing a variety of players helps, especially when you get more practice time than your rival.

Afaik, FG is cancer. And for the record I don't have a rival.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Try to fight in person if you can.

Going on For Glory is not ideal considering A) The opponent you face is a crapshoot B) the one dimensional stage selection and C) lag can really screw you up and discourages precision.

 

[Ultimastrike]

I wish Sakurai would bother to have more than FD on FG. Regardless, I met an old friend from another forum here. Still, I don't understand what a competitive mind is. Does anyone have a dictionary for it?

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

For Glory is definitely the place for practice, however you won't develop skills over night or win everything.
Patience grasshopper ;3

 

[Sean²]

If I have trouble playing against a certain character/smasher I'll request to keep playing that person or character until I beat them or AT LEAST feel competent enough to do well against them the next time I play. It just takes the drive to get better and take losses as a learning experience. Near the end of my brawl tournament days I hadn't posted a placing over 12th (i think) But I still loved the game and played competitively.

I stopped feeling bad when I lost and started longing for how it would feel when I finally did win. And when I did win, It was the best feeling I could feel at the time.

 

[PingPongCop]

I wish Sakurai would bother to have more than FD on FG. Regardless, I met an old friend from another forum here. Still, I don't understand what a competitive mind is. Does anyone have a dictionary for it?

Ignore it. Just forget it.

I almost feel as if you're refusing help. Not saying you are, its just.... I've never seen someone so down on themselves about a video game. If you're getting depressed by this stuff you really should take a break from Smash or perhaps just stop playing it. I don't mean to discourage you in any way, I'm trying to prevent you from doing what I did with another game.......

Screw you, League of Legends!!

 

[ZeldaNoob1234]

because i'm switching over to a controller that is more up to par with what you should use for smash.

For SIX YEARS i've used JUST the wiimote... And it's really fun playing that way for me because I'm just so used to it and it's like I don't even have to worry about controls. It's almost as if the characters' movesets are an extension of ME. Except of course, I never even attempted grabs or certain tilts because of the limitations that controller brings..

The only other controller I have right now is a gamepad, and today I've been fighting through the struggles of learning this completely foreign device (for me, the gamecube controller is foreign for smash). I started off playing with my Wiimote and it was so much fun since everything felt so natural... But I have to get used to the other non solo wiimote controller since they'd help me out in the long run. Right now man it is definitely not easy. I'm more fighting myself than my opponent...

The reason i'm doing this though is because I want to get to at least a semi competitive level.... Anyone else have any experiences with switching from the wiimote after using it for so long? This is seriously extremely hard.

I had originally started with the nunchuck and wiimote but now i only use gamecube controller definitely a better way to smash

 

[dragontamer]

I almost feel as if you're refusing help. Not saying you are, its just.... I've never seen someone so down on themselves about a video game. If you're getting depressed by this stuff you really should take a break from Smash or perhaps just stop playing it. I don't mean to discourage you in any way, I'm trying to prevent you from doing what I did with another game.......

Screw you, League of Legends!!

Indeed. Screw League of Legends and that toxic mindset you inherited from it.

Its depressing to lose, and its depressing to lose a lot and learn that no one understands your pain. But honestly, we've all been there before. We've all been newbies who don't even understand why we're losing, let alone how to get better when you don't understand.

All I can say is don't give up. Maybe find a player who's willing to show you the ropes, one or two tips that can break out of the losing mindset and start becoming a winner. In other communities, I've set up beginner leagues to help newbies out. It helps to fight people on your level (but alas, I don't have the time to maintain such leagues anymore)

Smash4 is still new, and is a unique (but related) community from Melee / Brawl. We'll definitely want to set up a beginner online league or something to help out players like the one here..

 

[PingPongCop]

Indeed. Screw League of Legends and that toxic mindset you inherited from it.

Its depressing to lose, and its depressing to lose a lot and learn that no one understands your pain. But honestly, we've all been there before. We've all been newbies who don't even understand why we're losing, let alone how to get better when you don't understand.

All I can say is don't give up. Maybe find a player who's willing to show you the ropes, one or two tips that can break out of the losing mindset and start becoming a winner. In other communities, I've set up beginner leagues to help newbies out. It helps to fight people on your level (but alas, I don't have the time to maintain such leagues anymore)

Smash4 is still new, and is a unique (but related) community from Melee / Brawl. We'll definitely want to set up a beginner online league or something to help out players like the one here..

My mindset isn't toxic.... I was being helpful (or trying to be). But if my advice is bad then it's bad. Leave it at that.

 

[MezzoMe]

You almost make it sound like I need to learn how to hard read someone.

That looked like that to me too when I gave a first look, but no.
You don't need to hard read someone 25 hours at day (unless you're Ganon) but rather know opponent's option, for istance:

such as recoveryng as Rosalina against Little Mac when you know that he's going to .onstage guard or if you are uncertain of what he's going to do

In this case, I know that my opponent is not going to offstage guard because his aerial game is nonexistent and his recovery is so bad that he would almost certainly self-destruct on any stage without a wall wich he can double jump with, even if he manages to hit, the reward would be close to nonexistent. Additionally, if ever he convinces his enemy to attack him in order so he can slip counter, he would die faster than he can say jolt haymaker, especially with the dash counter custom.
For the same reason as above trumping is not an option, and I don't recall if any of his aerials have a guaranteed follow-up on trump, unless he wants to meteor lol with grounding blow.
He has no projectiles so he won't projectile edgeguard.
He can't use deterrence, always because of his aerial having nothing to convince the enemy it's worth to attack him.
So you know he will almost always try to onstage guard you.
Tl;dr:You must think at what you can do in the situation you are knowing both your and his options.
If you see that you did choose an option that now you don't think is good then you know you have improved.

 

[dragontamer]

My mindset isn't toxic.... I was being helpful (or trying to be). But if my advice is bad then it's bad. Leave it at that.

Its cool. I didn't mean to insult you directly btw.

But LoL has a horrible community opinion towards newbies. They can somewhat afford it because they're one of the largest communities and have million dollar prize pools and everything.

But community building starts at this level: of accepting newbies and making them feel welcome. Its hard enough to keep playing when you feel like the community has "moved on". We've got the advantage that Smash4 is full of fun, casual players. Lets try to be welcoming to that crowd as well.

 

[Kronos2560]

Not sure if you're going to read this post, but let me reassure you that online is complete bull****, and should in no way have an effect on your feelings about yourself as a player.

I just played in my first tournament ever, and it was a 38 man bracket that featured some of Northern California's best players. I placed ninth, and the time I spent playing with passionate smash players in person was more valuable than any amount of time I spent playing games online.

Don't beat yourself up, find some people to play with and develop that way. Bring a positive attitude, and pat yourself on the back when you learn something new.

Best of luck,

- Kronos2560

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Don't mean to spam, but I re-post this because it seems my topic got sucked into this one and made into a post.

Hello, I am going to pick up Smash 4. Last weekend, I've played it (and quite a lot, may I say...!) on 3DS, played a few matches here and there, generally sticked with 5 characters or so, those being, Bowser, Yoshi, Ike, DDD & Toon Link (whom I really like over here). I found myself pretty prominent with Bowser and Ike, but I am definitely interested in TINK and the other two.

Could you tell me what are the things I should have a heads up for? As in, a sort of CG or something that will likely complicate my game a lot (I heard things about Diddy's D-Throw, but it doesn't seem that bad...)? I have an upcoming tournament, which, will be the very first over here (for Wii U, by the by) and there's a ton of money on the line. I am quite confident, but I need to learn more.


Thank you for reading.


Also, forgot to say I may have ran into some trouble against Duck Hunt. At least, with characters without a projectile (Bowser & Ike), did fairly well with Yoshi. Any tips?