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Game and Watch Video Thread

The Phenom

Smash Lord
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Jan 6, 2007
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A strength I didn't see in the video that was missing is bating(my opinion). Without a decent existence of one, results in a less rounded player; I won't go here. Your type of bating game. Just identify your bating game from the video; it is obvious what type you have.

You bate by throwing out attacks making you seem vulnerable(plenty). This already makes it obvious to them right away.
-Although don't count this obvious bating game out ever.

I saw you tech fox's down B more than three times, that is pretty technical. Try learning jab reset. The technique of "Jab Reseting" can serve as a addition to the "Bating Game". Jab reset are multiple jabs that you can wavedash in or back, jump out, and or continue with another attack.
-When you compare the differences of being able to wavedash in/out/etc. other action from a Dtilt/Ftilt/btilt/Utilt to jab reset, you see how jab reset can be used more. It is less risk on you feeling vulnerable, and they see that you are not bating them with what you think you only can, vulnerability.

How to learn jab reset proficiently:
It is kinda like producing a smash attack, you press A and Smash the stick to the side simultaneously.
-Right when you press A, that is when the stick should already be hitting either side diagonally downwards.

^^Test the differences of jabbing when you just keep pressing A to repeatedly jab. There is lag on cool down and after one of the jabs there is a empty hitbox for a jab. Jab reset is the first jab repeated and rapidly.

-Nice sausages.
 

It's me Q

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
149
Location
England
How to learn jab reset proficiently:
It is kinda like producing a smash attack, you press A and Smash the stick to the side simultaneously.
-Right when you press A, that is when the stick should already be hitting either side diagonally downwards.

^^Test the differences of jabbing when you just keep pressing A to repeatedly jab. There is lag on cool down and after one of the jabs there is a empty hitbox for a jab. Jab reset is the first jab repeated and rapidly.

-Nice sausages.
Eh what's this why can't you just press the first jab, wait for it to end and repeat? Surely pressing forward/back is going to increase chances of messing up and tilting/smashing instead
 

Oracle

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
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Location
Dallas, TX
Phenom if you're talking about the technique that lets you jab while crouching, all you have to do is hold down back and time the jabs right. Otherwise i have no idea what you're talking about
 

The Phenom

Smash Lord
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Eh what's this why can't you just press the first jab, wait for it to end and repeat? Surely pressing forward/back is going to increase chances of messing up and tilting/smashing instead
I've found it better done this way. I feel like I can produce faster jabs together. Pressing A alone doesn't feel right for me.

Phenom if you're talking about the technique that lets you jab while crouching, all you have to do is hold down back and time the jabs right. Otherwise i have no idea what you're talking about
That is what I mean.
 

Oracle

Smash Master
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Messages
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IIRC the crouch will come out during the iasa frames from holding down back, however pressing a while holding that direction makes the first jab come out. Thats how you cc jan or input fast jabs without the string happening (samus does it well)

:phone:
 

The Phenom

Smash Lord
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcGPGXu-PYo
It's not actually a G&W vid, but my G&W is featured in here. It was a 1-stock tournament and I was facing Amsah, the Sheik from the Netherlands at 0:50

Needless to say, I was hyped out of my mind after this :D
That was si ck dude, mindgamey', nice jabs too. You won't believe this but woke up thinking about amsah...that glorious moment he had vs the marth.

Keep it up bro
 
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GCS Gaming Customs

https://gcsgamingcustoms.storenvy.com
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I should have some videos up for critique this weekend.. Keep an eye out! I have been doing lots of studying of qerb and phenom, and I look forward from advice from you guys!
 

felipe_9595

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,431
Location
Chile
Lightshield is your friend. That matchup is incredibly one sided and you did pretty well considering everything. I Suggest you to incorporate some bacon in your neutral (Rapidly throwing 4 bacons works really well, despite its lag) and lightshielding , you dont have a shield after all.

Btw i placed decently at a big tournament here in chile, this is one of my sets :3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTxZ07bMec
 

GCS Gaming Customs

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After watching your match, you haven't used any utilts to stop falcons approaches. I believe utilt beats every single of his approaches. You use dtilt a lot, but the problem is that falcon is usually right above the hitbox. Look at 7:55.. you should have utilt instead of dtilt, but you got stomped instead :(

Knowing this, mix up your approaches and defense options incorporating utilt (and jabs are also a less laggy option for an opponent in front of you) just adding these two moves to your character will allow so many more possibilities to pressure your opponent and make them make a mistake.

Otherwise, your combos were on point, your air game and understanding of fair was really great. Keep it up!
 

felipe_9595

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,431
Location
Chile
After watching your match, you haven't used any utilts to stop falcons approaches. I believe utilt beats every single of his approaches. You use dtilt a lot, but the problem is that falcon is usually right above the hitbox. Look at 7:55.. you should have utilt instead of dtilt, but you got stomped instead :(

Knowing this, mix up your approaches and defense options incorporating utilt (and jabs are also a less laggy option for an opponent in front of you) just adding these two moves to your character will allow so many more possibilities to pressure your opponent and make them make a mistake.

Otherwise, your combos were on point, your air game and understanding of fair was really great. Keep it up!
Hahaha yeah i kinda forget of Utilt, i am more of a P:M G&W main (top 8 here in Chile : D) so i kinda forget to do stuff or that other things dont work (Like, for example there were a lot of times were i went for Usmash trying to Dacus or Doing up B out of nowhere hahaha)
 

The Phenom

Smash Lord
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Jan 6, 2007
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GCS, i just viewed the marth/fox matches.

vs. both of them you should attempt recovery by tossing a sausage where they can wavedash grab ledge/pc-grab ledge. if your hit out far. Learn to read if they are trying to grab the ledge before you can to throw a sausage on side of ledge.
recommend these videos:

lightshield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjt4rKqvRck
-your falcon control looks like it doesn't have a spring on the L-trigger GOOD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlLKj6T47KQ
-most g&ws suck at rapid pan/sausage.

vs. marth, flow more towards using bair.
 

GCS Gaming Customs

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GCS, i just viewed the marth/fox matches.
I don't have a spring in the L, wavelands are so much easier that way..

Ill work on rapid bacon. Do you have any neutral specific recommendations? I noticed you used Usmash a lot vs westballz fox... things like that.
 
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The Phenom

Smash Lord
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Jan 6, 2007
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My native reason for no spring is for powershielding. There are two types.

I dash crouch uptilt to close in to fox. Try to approximate when fox turns for dash away. Up-tilt. Rare is my motive to hit with uptilt but if
I do I wavedash into uptilt. For jab I basically do the same.

Type two powershield extends the powershield range.

Let go of hard shield a frame or three before powershield happens. Next frame, hold lightshield for a frame. You'll still have your guardoff capability for jab oos.
 
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GCS Gaming Customs

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My native reason for no spring is for powershielding. There are two types.

I dash crouch uptilt to close in to fox. Try to approximate when fox turns for dash away. Up-tilt. Rare is my motive to hit with uptilt but if
I do I wavedash into uptilt. For jab I basically do the same.

Type two powershield extends the powershield range.

Let go of hard shield a frame or three before powershield happens. Next frame, hold lightshield for a frame. You'll still have your guardoff capability for jab oos.
Thanks, I appreciate the suggestions. I would have never thought of that powershield trick. Im going to practice that this weekend. When you talk about Jab oos, do you just mean [shield --> drop shield --> jab --> followup] or is there something Im missing?

FIrst off, I may come across as critical below, but that is just because I am looking for direct/helpful answers, so we can all improve our G&W Game.


Just a few things I wanted to talk about after watching some of your gameplay again, feel free to respond whenever. Im open to discuss and learn from your play, and hopefully get you to think a little :)

- You seem to use roll more than most G&Ws in nuetral when you are under pressure. Sometimes, I notice you just roll sort of randomly, and you get punished for it.. Is there a reason why?
- My idea would be to use lightshield when you are under pressure, so the opponents attack pushes you away and you can WD oos to reset to neutral.

- As far as ground neutral, you sometimes wait and crouch and try to powershield falcos approach. Are you doing this for practice, or does it have some benefit in nuetral? It seems to just put you under pressure and gives falco an almost guranteed punish if you mess up the power shield or if he gets a poke/grab. After watching your matches, it seems like you get a ton more mileage out of edge canceling and pressuring falco with aerials when he is on the platforms and getting relatively safe dair and fair hits.
*An extra note on this, I feel like rising bair and rising dair (so it cancels) would be good options to catch falco in nuetral when he SHs. I will try this out myself this weekend.

BTW, I am referencing this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_EjTSZkEs

This is all for now. I just recently picked up G&W again, and I aim to be one of the best. I live in NC, so I may never see you or Qerb around.. but I hope to play you guys one day!
 
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The Phenom

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QERB

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 8, 2006
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Central Jersey

GCS Gaming Customs

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Advice of any kind from my G&W brethren would be much appreciated... Ive been practicing more falcon nowadays, so my movement wasnt as crisp as I would have hoped :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PMbJMB5OXE

Specifically, what are different ways to better deal with laser pressure? I did not expect this kind of camping and couldnt deal with it well (on FD)
 

QERB

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good stuff winning that $$$$$$ first of all. but ok.

On FD it's hardest to approach a campy falco. But when falcos like to spam shl in place i like to go for bucket. Since they're not doing running lasers, they're not mobile/prepared to punish, and having a 2-frame huge hitbox is a great tool to have.

Next is powershield. I know it's hard, but it's not impossible. I noticed you were powershielding some physical hits like an f-smash on YS, so if you can do that, you can powershield lasers too.

Next I would say, if you're about to get lasered, you can jump into the laser, SDI it, and then waveland, this messes up falco's combo off of laser, because he thinks you'll stay stationary where he lasered you last, but you'll actually be a waveland's length away.

Lastly I would say, don't give him so much space. Early/mid game of FD game 1, you would allow him to be more than half stage length away from you, where you can't threaten him. If you can close the gap, you can be more dangerous with potential double-jump approaches. But most of the double jump approaches you were going for were from too far away, giving the falco too much time to react.

For example at 1:56, if you SDI that laser down and away, falco might have whiffed his grab and then you can get a d-tilt or grab punish. That may not be the most perfect example, since the falco did space that laser pretty damn well, but, that's just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

One more thing I noticed a few times was you were getting hit by get-up attacks. I know sometimes it's hard to just run up and shield because after a certain amount of frames we get shield stabbed by get-up attacks. So you can react to get-up attacks with full jump (to avoid it) and then punish it with d-air.

Nothing else really caught my eye. There were some obvious mistakes here and there but I'm sure you know what those were and I don't need to point them out. Good stufffff
 

GCS Gaming Customs

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Thanks Qerb! Since I also play falcon, I do need to work on my power shield game.. Ill practice it for sure. Those bad DJ approaches were mostly because I was just desperate and wanted to get in lol.

I've done the SDI laser down before, I just never really thought of it to be used that way.. thanks for pointing it out.

Ill get my combos back on point so I can zero to death falco on final. I like the bucket idea, I think it would be a great way to get falco to just approach you instead of spamming laser so much since it he is charging my bucket doing so
 

GCS Gaming Customs

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Any thoughts on auto canceled dairs (or if you jump out of the instant dair)? I dont see them used a whole lot by top level G&Ws.. they seem good for retreating and catching an aggressive opponent off guard with a waveland --> grab/dtilt afterwards and for extending combos
 

QERB

Smash Journeyman
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i like the idea of auto cancel d-air, cuz it looks sweet. however i usually prefer doing a cross-up d-air and actually landing, since g&w can punish the tech chase faster while he's on the ground with react-> wavedash as opposed to him being kinda slow in the air. with platforms that could work situationally, i could see that.
 
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