Game and Watch Matchup Export: Pikachu

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daniel7001
#1
Pikachu



Matchup: 60:40 (+1)

Basic Info:
Pikachu is very fast, but suffers in range. Pikachu can use QAC to move around quickly to try and resolve this, but Pika can still get zoned out. Pika can camp with thunderjolts, but not as effectively as would be ideal. Pikachu has a chain grab that works on a large amount of the cast, especially the fast fallers. Pika, however is let down by its low weight, which can only be marginally corrected with sideB

Videos:

Strategy:
  • We can bucket his thunder and his jolts. Air jolts and thunder lead to a very powerful bucket. Grounded jolts are still strong. We can also get multiple stacks out of a single thunder.
  • His aerials are faster, but ours have longer range. His nair and uair are very good at hitting us if we over commit. To solve this, don't over commit. Understand that we out range quite easily and his jolts are unsafe at a distance.
  • Pikachu can dthrow>nair us until 50%, and getting the grab is relatively easy for Pikachu. This is VERY bad, try to avoid this.
  • Our grab game is very effective against pikachu. Dthrow is very strong here.
  • We can kill Pikachu at ridiculously low percentages, but due to Pika's QAC, landing the smashes is must more difficult than it seems.
  • Pikachu's QAC allows it to run around us until it has an opportune time to go in and use it's very fast aerials to hit (and possibly combo) us.

Stages:
Assuming the stagelist from Unity 2.1
Strikes
1. Final Destination
2. Pokemon Stadium 1
3. Smashville
Runner-Up - Castle Seige


Counter Pick
1. Brinstar / Rainbow Cruise
2. Frigate Orpheon
Runner-Up - Delphino Plaza


Ban
1. Final Destination
Runner-Up - Pokemon Stadium

 

Dexident

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#3
Not necessarily GW specific but it's very important to know how to DI out of their d-smash correctly.
 

Rizen

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#4
Pika's strong points are the it's fast and can dance around G&W with upB canceling, aerials and bait opportunities to punish our very committing moveset. While we have good anti-pika tools and win in theory, it can keep us guessing and be a real pain to hit.
Pika can plan an annoying partial retreat and t jolt then flow into something else. Its t jolts at close-mid range are good interrupters and hard to bucket if the pika player is smart.
Pika's Fsmash has surprising reach and duration. It can run back a bit and punish with Fsmash or beat our low/ground approaches and Dtilt.

These things aside we can make it's life hard too. Be careful of laggy moves like smashes and be aware that Pika can buzz away slightly or behind you and be ready to attack like a mosquito. Nair, as always is really good. Jolts can be stopped with our hitbubbles. DI up and left or right out of pika's Dsmash and it's not a problem; several of its moves can be escaped with SDI. Careful when escaping with upB because pika can thunder it and will thunder offstage if needed. We can bucket thunder and jolts but not the thunder part that hits pika. We can hit it out of recovering well too. Most Pikas I've played Usmash for KOs like a weaker version of Fox. It can KO well off the ceiling so I'd avoid low ceilings.
I think we win on open stages (FD) because our good mobility and Pika needs to hop around near us to space and mix-up. His spam is easy to bucket from far away. The absence of Pika's CG makes CPing much easier. Pika is fast and agile and still does well on most stages.

+1G&W
 

Alphicans

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#5
I've always felt that we counter pika, but after starting to main pika it's hard for me to say it's a true +2. He might not have a cg on us, but he dthrow nairs us up to like 50%, and since pika has a fast run speed coupled with QaC, he does not have issues grabbing us at all. Also since he has like two of the fastest aerials in the game (uair and nair), he has no problems being under us, while a lot of characters do. I think this is the key point in this match-up, possibly only making this a +1 for us. Pika can practically choose any point while we're in the air to throw out an aerial to hit us, while we have to play a guessing game... However since the range on his moves aren't that great we still have a relatively easy time landing (unlike vs Marth :/), also his thunder isn't very effective for obvious reasons.

Bucket taking away tjolt is a pretty big deal since pika now has to find his way into us via close combat instead of his preferred approach of chipping away shield/creating traps with tjolt. This means if he gets close to us we can throw out a retreating bair or just a nair and can shut him down well, however it's not fool proof because he can stutter step fsmash our landings.

Overall our range in attacks and kill power (pika dsmashing our shield at 75% means he's dead) kind of just beefs through pikas mobility and traps giving us the advantage of about +1. +2 is just a little too much considering how good pika is as a character.

EDIT: It's important to remember that even in brinstar/RC legal rulesets, if pika bans brinstar, RC isn't an amazing CP. Pika is great on that stage as well, not as good as us but not a sure thing (far from it). If you can take him to brinstar do it, that's an auto win but I doubt that'll ever happen.
 
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daniel7001
#7
Any good videos for the matchup? And what are some good stages to go to?

Can I get a second on the FD? Just because GnW is usually pretty.. bad there.
 

-LzR-

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#8
I don't mind FD in this MU. I don't think there is ever any need to switch. It's not like Pikachu has any use for the large space in FD.
 
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#9
FD makes it easier to predict his QAC and easier to bucket his electricity. The MU becomes very straightforward and a lot easier.
Basically just bair like it's 2008 and try to bait out thunders because bucket gimmicks are fun. Also make sure you can SDI out of his dsmash or you're going to have a bad time.
 

-LzR-

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#10
No Pikachu is going to thunder or jolt G&W just like that, don't rely on it. And who approaches with QAC? And please don't bair unless you want to be usmashed or grabbed a lot. Just play patiently.
 
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daniel7001
#11
FD sounds like its not a stage to counterpick too, but we shouldn't avoid either, yes?

What about Lylat? I know pika is good there, but we are goot there too.
 

Rizen

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#12
If we're talking Lylat we might as well go BF or Brin. Lylat's high ceiling and close sides are not good. Pika gets a big boost there that we're better off not giving him.
 
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#15
Brinstar all day erryday

Easy tech chases due to small rolling distance. Also close blast zones. Oh and hitlag on the tentacles using fsmash will get almost anyone coming up from the ledge, it's great
 

Damittom

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#19
How is the high ceiling good for Pika? Most of Pika's kill moves kill off the top.

Plus F-air tech chase is easy to land in this matchup which kills off the side.

And Lylat is a great stage in this matchup what are you talking about? Most Pikas don't like it because the tilts scare them out of quick attacking to the ledge and most will quick attack to the stage instead.
 

Rizen

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#20
How is the high ceiling good for Pika? Most of Pika's kill moves kill off the top.

Plus F-air tech chase is easy to land in this matchup which kills off the side.

And Lylat is a great stage in this matchup what are you talking about? Most Pikas don't like it because the tilts scare them out of quick attacking to the ledge and most will quick attack to the stage instead.
G&W benefits less on Lylat is the point. Good Pikas can work with Lylat fine and boost their thunder/jolt game there. IMO Pika's side KOs get a greater boost than G&W's on Lylat and the ceiling helps Pika live. QA cancels without the ledge anyway. G&W can't plank/stall as safely.

I think we have better options, not that it's bad.
 

Damittom

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#21
I don't understand how you think Lylat is a bad stage for GW in general. The platform layout is good for juggles, the high ceiling doesn't hurt GW that much as F-smash is a far more reliable kill than sweet spot D-smash or U-smash (not even taking into acount F-air). It is one of the neutrals that GW is above average on and Pika has few advantages on it over other stages.

Plus unless your going for D-smash under like 80% the ceiling shouldn't hurt your kill potential at all seeing as sweet spot D-smash is semi-difficult to DI
 
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#22
Lylat's high ceiling is good for Pika and the close sides help Pika more than G&W. G&W's strongest Dsmash hits up. There's always better choices than Lylat.
Again, how's it good for Pikachu?

Not to mention you have to hit the dsmash on the edge of the smash for it to send the pikachu upwards. Dthrow -> dsmash sends him flying horizontally, as long as he doesn't tech
 

Rizen

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#24
High ceiling means characters die later off the top.
I don't understand how you think Lylat is a bad stage for GW in general.
I think we have better options, not that it's bad.
Again, how's it good for Pikachu?
Good Pikas can work with Lylat fine and boost their thunder/jolt game there. IMO Pika's side KOs get a greater boost than G&W's on Lylat and the ceiling helps Pika live. QA cancels without the ledge anyway. G&W can't plank/stall as safely.
@ MEOW, sorry but I'm done with this thread. I see why several G&W tourney players don't post here; it's a total waste of time. It's nothing to do with you though, good effort. :/
 
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daniel7001
#25
You around first understand that we WANT pika to jolt and thunder. They won't be using. it much in this mu.

Your only other point was the ceiling, which is the same as FD/BF
 

Alphicans

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#26
All the neutrals are pretty much... neutral in this match-up, as in none of them really give either character any extra tricks to work with. I would probably ban FD of all stages and CP to frigate if you can.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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#29
We want to catch Jolts, Pika can be crafty and hit with thunder/jolts. Lylat has a higher ceiling than BF and closer sides to the platform. I had a lot of points.

Anyway, I found info on the Pika boards, it's old but all anyone had. Do the opposite of what they like. Bye.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264940
Game & Watch


Stage Strikes: BF, Delfino, YI, Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd, SV, PS1, FD

BF is amazing for G&W pressuring with all the platforms. They also give him a plethora of approaching options while limiting ours. Delfino has very large portions and portions with ver small ceilings. He can camp some of the transformations very well, have a lot of room to bucket-brake, and room to get really early kills coupled with his already ******** killing power. YI's platform disrupts our approaching game so we can only approach him from the ground, but with bair and nair on his side we shouldn't really be doing that. Those are the only bad ones, but SV, Halberd, PS1, and FD are definitely the best. Halberd is mediocre imo since the low ceiling benefits G&W, but it also gives him way less room to bucket-brake. SV, PS1, and FD are all relatively flat. We can take more advantage of the PS1 transformations than G&W can, so it is a good neutral against him.

Counterpicks: FD, PS1, SV, Halberd

Flat = good for pikachu. The less options that are limited with platforms the better. PS1 the platforms are too high to disrupt us, and the lip can catch G&Ws up-b if they don't do it perfectly. Halberd is explained in neutral section.

Bans: Brinstar, RC, Frigate, or Green Greens

Brinstar and RC are two of G&W's best stages. He is really good there. Green Greens allows him to wall infinite, and frigate is just a good level for him. We are screwed when it comes to his CP. Hope you win the first match!~
 

-LzR-

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#30
Tbh Pikachu should pretty much never use Jolts in this MU unless we are at last stock and kill % or something.
 

Metmetm3t

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#31
http://youtu.be/X6i82GViHvQ

bair, nair, fsmash ect. all disjointed hitboxes kill TJolts safely. (Dtilt does not work)
Sheilding Pika's dsmash gives you a free FSmash punish.
If you don't DI Pika's uptilt, it's a free thunder.
Large hitboxes punish quick attack recoveries when Pika makes a mistake.
Pika's Fsmash usually ties with bair.
 

Alphicans

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#32
Dtilt works it's just that ball tjolt and ground tjolt are entirely different. Ground tjolt has transcendent priority (like lasers and MKs sword), while ball tjolt doesn't IIRC.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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#33
You shouldn't need to kill Jolts at all. If it's unsafe to bucket for some reason (kill %) then just like, powershield them because Jolts are lame.
Even if you bucket and Pikachu punishes you, as long as you don't die it's in your favor.
 
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daniel7001
#34
I pulled a Zilean/Yorick and brough this back for final thoughts and insight (Looking at you Tech_chase and patches O.o)

Also videos and a matchup number would be appreciated (Pretty much 6:4 right)
 

Alphicans

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#35
I'll likely have a good example of the pika vs gaw m/u sometime near the beginning of december lol...

I could also get some matches next weekend recorded, but they will be vs a person I play constantly, so it's a bit skewed. Probably still helpful though.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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#38
So in paper this MU looks like a solid +2 for :gw: We have favorable, large, disjointed hitboxes that trump Pikachu's relatively short ranged attacks. Our Oil Panic limits the use of Thunder Jolts and Thunder, unless Pikachu wants to risk dying at 0% (and if he its our shield, it's happening when a Thunder charged Bucket). And of course...we kill Pikachu hella early (when we can land the Smash attacks) But there are a few factors that give Pikachu a fighting chance in this MU.

For starters. grabbing :gw: isn't THAT difficult if he's grounded or overcommits with a move. At 0%, if you get grabbed then you essential eat 50% as explained before. That's 1/3 of your stock. That's a BIG deal. And even past CG percents, Down Throw is just good in general. If you have habits..watch them here or he gets a freebie follow up.

And I should clarify this next part: QAC does get ***** when Pikachu uses it as a general approach. Our large hitboxes and his extended hurtbox makes approaching with this move in a neutral position a really bad idea for Pikachu. BUT, a lot of our moves are telegraphed and involve a significant commitment. If you mis-space something or overcommit, a QaC Nair is not only fast, but powerful. Pikachu has relatively strong punish options for such a a fast moveset. And his mobility as a whole allows him to safely poke GW and stay on the move. He can still get in on your range because of this. And Pikachu's ability to transition from offense to defense or vice versa is impressive. His versatile moveset also plays a role in this.

But the most important use of QaC in this MU is the ability to reset situations. From neutral positions we have almost all the tools we need in theory. But Pikachu's high mobility also allows him the option to just reset and find another way in. And it's because of this that he can still outlive us, even with our kill power. Trying to hit a smart Pikachu with a Smash attack is not that easy. And he can still live Fairs at solid percents because he has a great recovery and great momentum cancel options. Getting a killing blow on a Pikachu that wants to play hit and run is NOT easy. This allows him to play catch up and thats why I think this MU is more of a +1 than a + 2. This by itself doesn't seem like a big deal....But GW's just moveset doesn't have anywhere near as much versatility as his. Pikachu has the tools to combat GW, he just can't spam projectiles or go balls in with QaC like he can in other MUs. He can put up a good fight though. You have to play smart.

It's also worth noting to avoid direct ground to ground combat with Pikachu. Jabs are fast and the higher % you are, the more likely it will trip you which leads to a free follow up. And his tilts are very fast. Down-Tilt has impressive horizontal range for him (second only to his F-Smash) and F-Tilt is fast. Angled up it's good for stuffing aerials.

Also ban FD.

+1 :gw: 6:4 if you wanna use ratios, old-school style.

/rewrite
 

Alphicans

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#39
You caught yourself with the QaC bit at the end, and I feel that should lead to a re write of your post haha. QaC is pretty bad in general, but especially vs us since we have a huge window to guess when he's going to do it and if we guess right it's a pretty big punish.

As I said before this is +1, but can easily be +2 or even +3 vs inexperienced pikachus. Pika has 2 of the fastest aerials in the game, one which combos into the other and can lead to a QaC lock (uair), meaning he can wait at any time for us to make a move and punish on reaction really easily.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
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#40
Yeah you're right. I re-wrote it a little bit more eloquently to show why this is closer to +1 than +2. It sounded awkward to me when I was re-reading it and you nailed it for me. Thanks!
 
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