Game and Watch Matchup Export: Olimar

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Would you say Delfino is a ban? And what about Halberd?

I think that Halberd is better for Olimar simply because, he will always have the potential to kill you very early because Up Smash is a very reliable punish in any matchup for him. Reds and Purple are especially powerful as you know. And there's always a large platform for Olimar to camp under. Its like a worse version of Yoshi's Island except you have the ability to shark..which isn't worth much. And I believe Oli has a better chance of pulling a purple. Its gay. The main saving grace is that you can kill very early too and its a little easier to harass Oli off stage because there is less room.

Delfino offers constant change in the layout which offers varying degrees of usefulness for Game and Watch. Some phases are a lot stronger than others. Delfino does give Oli more Purples and Blues and there are some phases where Oli can kill very early too. I mean I would never CP Oli here as GW but I wouldn't ban it either. Unless maybe in a super conservative stage list, Bo5 set.

FD is far worse though by nature. Its an extremely polarizing stage that limits GW and helps Olimar more so. Against a character who can just camp from long range incessantly a stage as large as FD is bad for GW. You're not camping Olimar. So you need to remain in mid or close range. A flat stage with lots of horizontal room doesn't facilitate that at all. Your main issue in this MU is approaching. You have to play a guessing game here all while taking damage over time. There's no risk for Olmar throwing Pikmin at you if he's doing it correctly. And so to reduce the amount of damage you take while trying to corner him, you want less distance in between you and Olimar. So you need a stage that either reduces the amount of approaching you have to do because of the size..or gives you easier access to him or limits his recovery and forces him to want to stay on one part of the stage more than others.

The Golden Rule of fighting Olimar is approach carefully and stay in mid range, poke until you've found an opening. Then you've got him on the ropes and in the air: PRESSURE. You CAN'T be passive and win against an Oli who knows what they're doing. Even tech chasing helps you a lot. Just stay in his grill once you've got past the "bubble". Keep the momentum and make him sweat. Pick stages that facilitate this ideology. Ban and strike stages that make this more difficult.

Ban FD first.
Then Halberd.
Delfino is worth considering if the Olimar has a personal preference for the stage.

None of the neutrals aside FD are worth banning imo. Some are clearly better than others but none of them are THAT bad.

@Ominous: I've played so many Olis and they all play gay as ****. lol.

 

[Damittom]

I know from the Oli side the Olimars tend not to tech the downthrow. His techrolls are bad. Also, if he doesnt tech, our downsmash will always hit.

Also Olimar is always gonna be trying to pivot grab us, and good ones will even be able to space out the B-air and pivot grab us out of it.

We need to be able to take advantage of every small opening we find especially when he is off stage. Also if a sour spoted downsmash nocks him off stage, chase with the fair because of the trejectory from being hit will put him below stage and his first thought will be to tether immediately. We can nock him out of the tether with the Fair if we are quick enough, and gimp him early.

And our grab is so important in this match-up because of Olimar's poor options out of it.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Alright, lets get some ratios in here.

I would say -1 for sure, and probably 40:60 in terms of the specific numbers.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I would say its a -1.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I have that down, but I also like having the more specific numbers so that people can tell whether or not it is a hard or easy -1

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

40-60 for overall.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Alright, then with that, this thread is just about wrapped up. Anything that you find relevant to post, do so as long as there is not a newer matchup thread. The only other question is: who's next to discuss?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I vote .

Kind of interested in also.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Falco would probably be good, I was thinking Snake or Diddy, just due to the matchups being more difficult.

 

[-Ominous-]

I thought we were maybe going in order of he tier list. So Diddy would be next.

But I worry about Snake more...so I'd prefer him.

And Smiley I wasn't talking about what he said about Frigate. It was just his post as a whole. I mean, what he said about Delfino made the Olis he played seem difficult...since i personally haven't had issues on that stage. And there were other stuff too, but I don't really remember what,and I'm too lazy to go reread his whole post.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Because of v7's new release, I just made the decision to go in order of importance, and I use the tier if nobody decides on one character.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I thought we were maybe going in order of he tier list. So Diddy would be next.

But I worry about Snake more...so I'd prefer him.

And Smiley I wasn't talking about what he said about Frigate. It was just his post as a whole. I mean, what he said about Delfino made the Olis he played seem difficult...since i personally haven't had issues on that stage. And there were other stuff too, but I don't really remember what,and I'm too lazy to go reread his whole post.

It's okay. I forget what I said and was too lazy to check what i sid, but i'm sure i was just joking.

 

[Dabuz]

I would say this MU is -2. Olimar's pivot grab and upsmash out of shield stops most of G&W's arsenal. He doesn't have a good answer to side-B and G&W is light so the residual damage is huge. Upair beats G&W's dair and juggles him extremely easily. The stagelist also favors Olimar. Platforms limit G&W's options highly and when stage-striking, Olimar is sure to always get a favorable stage. G&W's strongest CPs are brinstar and RC, brinstar should always be banned by Oli, and RC actually isn't bad for Oli in this MU.

 

[-LzR-]

Imo the only thing going for G&W in this MU is how easily we can abuse Olimars crappy options out of Dthrow. Other than that it's kinda bad.

 

[Dabuz]

Why do people think Olimar's option out of Dthrow are bad? VS. G&W, we have the same options as everyone else: Tech it in one of 3 directions, don't tech it. You're not snake, you can't regrab on reaction before we can do anything.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Because if you miss the tech, you are possibly off stage with a game and watch following after you.

And your rolls are bad enough that we can just tech chase and fair/bair you, which also puts you in a bad situation.

 

[Damittom]

I agree with Dabuz tho Olimar is a -2. imo harder than mk.

 

[Dabuz]

Because if you miss the tech, you are possibly off stage with a game and watch following after you.

And your rolls are bad enough that we can just tech chase and fair/bair you, which also puts you in a bad situation.

First point is completely true, although players with MU experience shouldn't really miss the tech >:

For the second point, are you able to fair / bair Oli's tech on reaction?

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

If we can nair some people off the tech and on reaction, I would assume we can fair/bair someone with bad rolls as well.

 

[Dabuz]

Ok, then that's a REALLY good option vs. Olimar. 0_0

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

GnW too good

 

[-Ominous-]

Dash attack probably works too.

Maybe a regrab also.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The regrab would probably be very difficult.

Dash attack would probably work.

 

[-LzR-]

The thing with Olimar is that his rolls are short so we can easily perform usmashes or attempt lucky sideB on your rolls were most characters roll too far.
Also is it possible to catch Olis techroll with dsmash? I'm pretty sure I have done that or the Oli was just ****.

 

[Dabuz]

upsmash, regrab, and side-B are all viable tech roll punishes vs. Olimar. You do have to make a read and commit to them however. You shouldn't be able to catch Oli's tech roll with dsmash @.@

 

[-LzR-]

Well G&W always has to make a read with Dsmash. I don't think he can do anything out of reaction to anyone. But if we can catch you near the ledge, we can cover almost everything with dsmash which will sourspot, likely killing Olimar, but that won't be happening often. Still are free MU.

 

[Rizen]

(^Rainbow of text colors)
IDK what to say about Oli. He can shut all our options down. Get him in the air and be aggressive; G&W's aerials can outlast his whistle and setup another juggle so we do have something on him.

 

[-LzR-]

For Dabuz stuff:
Will our dair simply clash with your uair for the whole duration of it? I heard that uair is different than most pikmin moves that they refresh their hitbox every frame or something.

 

[Dabuz]

If I get your question, the answer is, up-air with NEVER clash with dair because every 2 frames is another hitbox. Up-air will beat dair EVERY TIME uness you kill the pikmin with your dair.

 

[-LzR-]

That was kinda my point, dair only hits the pikmin once, so the next hitbox will then beat it?

 

[Dabuz]

Yes. I just didn't get exactly what you meant with the way you worded the question before.

 

[Gardex]

Olimar's uair has rarely bothered me in this MU(Although it's one of my least played important MUs). I feel like I always get the best of it. Usually trading or winning.

Must be bad olimars(A decent Olimar in Europe???)

 

[Rizen]

When can pikmin not be harmed? When they're with Olimar but not in action, UpB chain attack and during grabs comes to mind. It seems like stronger attacks make the Pikmin stronger too; ForwarB throws are weak and smashed Pikmin are hearty.
Is this true?

 

[Dabuz]

Pikmin can always be harmed except during Up-B and grab.

 

[Damittom]

Dabuz do you change your font color everytime you post?

Also with Japanese ruleset which stage would you ban against ?

 

[Dabuz]

I do ^.^ I would ban PS1. It's the only stage where G&W is able to limit Olimar's mobility options and the edges can lead to Olimar getting stage-spiked more easily than normal. It's not a bad stage for Olimar at all, and in japanese ruleset, Oli has no bad stages in this MU, it's just the least favorable.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

That's acrually very interesting, ps1 would be my first ban in japanese ahainst olimar.

 

[SFA Smiley]

No way in hell, definitely banning Yoshi's

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Good point. There are only like.. 2 players that I would go to Yoshi's against.

 

[Damittom]

I do ^.^ I would ban PS1. It's the only stage where G&W is able to limit Olimar's mobility options and the edges can lead to Olimar getting stage-spiked more easily than normal. It's not a bad stage for Olimar at all, and in japanese ruleset, Oli has no bad stages in this MU, it's just the least favorable.

Ok, I wasn't sure, personally I would have picked Lylat, but I know Olimar also gets a pluck bonus from that stage. There is a lot of the same traits between the two stages its just the question of let Olimar sort his pikmin or get better plucks in general. (And of course the layout of the stage itself)