Game and Watch Matchup Export: Marth

Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
1,072
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Tucson, AZ
NNID
daniel7001
#1
Marth



Matchup: 35:65 (-2)

Basic Info:

Videos:
UTDZac vs. MikeHAZE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LjEJQjWDg

Strategy:
  • Our bair gets beaten very easily in this matchup. The best use is to bait with it and hope for a counter.
  • We can usually punish Marth's fair OoS with our own fair, unless it is very well spaced.
  • Don't do any smashes that can be easily punished. Marth's tippered fsmash kills extremely early and has decent range as well. Use the dthrow techchase to land the killing smashes instead.
  • Marth's amazing GR game is exemplified in this matchup. They can really do some damage to us.
  • At low percents, uthrow Marth. Our dthrow>dsmash will not hit him, so throwing him upwards allows us to juggle for a while and rack up tons of damage.
  • When we get on the ledge, Marth can destroy us, but the same goes for when we are above him. Marth's uair beats our dair, but since we can be unpredictable with slowfalling and fastfalling we can occasionally beat him if he whiffs it.
  • Our bair is generally unsafe in this matchup. Use fair for often as it is a bit safer. Marth can UpB OoS or SDI the bair, but the fair is not as bad.

Stages:
Assuming the stagelist from Unity 2.1
Strikes
1. Final Destination
2. Smashville
3.
Runner-Up -


Counter Pick
1. Rainbow Cruise
2. Frigate
Runner-Up - Halberd


Ban
1. Final Destination
Runner-Up - Smashville

 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#2
Though we are still talking about ICies I don't have much to contribute there so I write about Marth instead. I do not win this MU because my G&W is nowhere near good enough against our best Marths but here is what I think after playing the MU a lot.

I think this is like our hardest -1 or something. We do not get owned by Marth. It's just a hard MU to play since it requires a lot of effort, but we do not lose.

Try to make the most out of his upB. Marths like to upB when you perform stuff they can react to. If you can successfully bait it you can uair a few times to refresh moves and then nair him for extra damage or if he is near the edge try to hit him with a charged smash or if he tries for the ledge, edgehog him.

If Marth performs a rising fair on our shield I am pretty sure we can most of the time fair OoS unless he has really good spacing.

We don't have much stuff to do on the ground here. If we whiff a smash or even hit a shield we are gonna die early to a tipper fsmash. Instead land those smashes with Dthrows. This way they will be fresh most of the time and really deadly.

Don't get grabbed because GR fair obviously kinda hurt and gives Marth a lot control. At low % I would actually try to Uthrow Marth. When he is above us he loses everything he has against us and we can really rack some damage.

As for edgeguarding, try to land a fair against him when he is recovering. If you land a weak fair, immediately upB to the ledge to attempt to edgehog him. This should make it kinda easy to gimp him. And you have to gimp him if you want to win.
Marth also gives us a harder time recovering than against most characters. His bair is insanse and will beat everything you throw at him. You must never just upB to the ledge or to the stage or you will get destroyed by Bair or in the worst cases, Fsmash or spike.

Also try to bair a lot less than in most MUs. He can beat it without problems. Try to use it as a bait or something...
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#4
G&W can perform a ledgehop and airdodge after it having full invincibilty until landing so it's not that hard for us. At least it's not fun for him either to be at the ledge.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
7,649
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#6
Of course you get ***** if he reads it but hey, you are invincible the whole time. G&W has less trouble in the ledge than many characters really.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Jan 1, 2009
Messages
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Finland
#11
Being above Marth is infinitely better than being on the ledge against him. We are not totally ****ed when we are above. We have great mobility and dair will go right through a whiffed uair.
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
#12
I don't have an incredible amount of high stakes experience with this match up but I do have one tid bit that I have noticed. I feel like chef is a really good tool for this match up for a couple reasons:

1.) Marth has no projectile and so it forces him to approach.

2.) Approaching Marth's love to f-air, oh look I'm Marth! f-air, f-air, f-air, or n-air, whatever. But if you just don't let up on the stream of bacon they can (will have to) f-air their way through the bacon to try and get to you, if timed and spaced properly you will end up eventually hitting them with some bacon which turns into a bacon combo. By then Marth is usually close enough to you that you can start into a real combo or just continue cheffing because they will not doubt try to pull something close to you. 7/10 they get hit with the pan and have to reset the situation.

3.) Using bacon is situational and only a mixup, but I've found that against Marth it is a particularly handy mixup and can reliable throw on a couple percent if used correctly. The strength of this move is that it looks goofy and you don't see a lot of GW's use it all the time, so the other player usually thinks they can just beat their way through such a silly move.

TL/DR:

Bacon is good against approaching f-air.
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
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Alaska
#14
It's something they get used to and can work around, that's why you should use sparingly and at random intervals.
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
#18
LOL! I was wondering why you brought that up.

Seriously though, next friendly match you do just try a little chef action and see if you can't find a use for it.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
7,649
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#19
There probably isn't a G&W who uses bacon more than me. I love that move. I just feel that Marth can ignore it with relative ease when all of his moves pretty much eat it alive.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Messages
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#23
I use Bacon pretty much always when I know it's safe to use. I just can't ignore such an awesome projectile.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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#29
Marth doesn't care about stages. He is versatile as hell.
Just avoid stuff like FD and try for something like Halberd and Delfino imo.
 

Ayce God

RIP Nova 9
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Oct 18, 2011
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#34
kind of a hard match up, but we don't **** g&w that bad it's prolly a -1 for y'all. idk who was talking about bacon it's not that helpful unless u need a second or two to think. jab and power shield destroy that.

um for me the most annoying thing about the match up is your bair. we have to space perfectly if we miss fair or we get oos with it or fair.

you guys can kill us really early and you make us have to be perfect in our execution. of course you guys REALLY have to be on your ****. but. I still think it's -1.

oh and I'll just add in if you don't know how to punish us or aren't familiar with marth, then prepare to get ya **** pushed in.

:phone:
 

Zano

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
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Corpus Christi, Texas
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DuelistZano
#35
No, it's a bad MU, def -2, looool. Fair is literally the only move I have problems with in this MU, his bair is ****ing punishable as ****.
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
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Tucson, AZ
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daniel7001
#38
Because Marth's shieldgrab outranged bair? I have always found success in using bair against Marth.
How well can we gimp Marth? I would assume pretty well if we get far enough away from the ledge, but can the dancing blade keep them safe?

Stages in this MU?
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#40
He can upB out of bair even like when he is hit lmao. And no matter what spacing, he can either tipper fsmash or just upB.

And gimping is like the one thing we have going against Marth. I think we are quite good at it. Fair owns offstage.
 
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