G&W vs Ganondorf Matchup

[LimeSkinny]

This is probably my worst matchup (next to Peach), and I was double eliminated by a Ganon player at my last monthly.
How should g&w play against Ganon? Should he camp with bacon, waiting for Ganon to throw out a bad attack?
Or should g&w approach? How does g&w get in on a Ganon that's walling him with fairs/bairs? What are the best ways to edgeguard Ganon? What are the general goals g&w should have in the neutral?

Here's a video of me getting wrecked by a Ganon a few months back. Any advice is much appreciated!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r9yf3sWhPA&list=PLF0c0-Q1H--bHhZe6UcHFJwd9v2t6F2nw&index=5

 

[Metmetm3t]

For future reference creating redundant threads is frowned upon and can get you an infraction. We have a stickied thread dedicated to matchup discussion

The Ganondorf matchup is definitely in our favor, but you are going to have to shift your mindset significantly. Right now you are playing G&W as a tiny version of Ganon. Trying to use your big hitboxes and high damage output to bully in. The problem is Ganon is a much better at this than you. He's swinging at w/e and doesn't care if you actually get hit or if you punish him because at the end of the day he's only got to hit you about 5 times while you've got to get at least twice that.

You to take advantage of that mindless wall that he's throwing out and use it against him. To do this you have to focus on his character probably more than you are used to doing. You have to trust that G&W is going to do what you tell him to do and be constantly on the look out for exactly what move and what timing he's using. Once you familiarize yourself with his hitboxes you should have no problem spacing against them.

Then, you are just looking for the holes in his move choice. His fair is a 100% commitment. He's going to the ground, so with proper spaceing and timing you can punish it's landing lag with bair or grab to get something started, or you can use that time to setup chef or take back lost space. Same thing with dair and sortof with nair (though look out for the autocancel). His bair has a few more options, and this is where it's most important that you are watching. He can either do one and done or with an early timing he can bair>DJ>bair or bair>DJ>sideb or bair>DJ>float or a hand full of other less common things. These are all punishable on reaction if you know what you are looking at. Just don't get too greedy and remember that he's out of movement options and he's all in.

He obviously has more options in neutral that you have to look out for, but once you start breaking it down like this it's really just about not getting greedy. That's what he wants you to do. As soon as you underestimate one of his options he's going to hit you hard.

Be sure to limit his options whenever you can, take him to FD or SV so he has less platforms to use as escapes, and be sure to throw out chef. With chef on the screen he either has to run in fear, shield, or throw out a hitbox. That's not a lot of options and it probably is what really flips the matchup in our favor.

 

[The 9!]

You didn't use enough chef which is key in this matchup to limit ganon's options. In game 1 the ganon was jumping around throwing out nairs and bairs for no reason because you weren't doing anything about it. Bacon will help you predict what ganon's going to do so you can punish it. Also it's really important to know your combos against him because you can rack up huge damage. Also when you try to punish one of ganon's aerials as he lands ALWAYS consider their jab because they always love to spam it when enemies get close.

Basically just be conscious of your spacing and don't run into ganon's moves, use a lot of bacon, and punish HARD. After a big combo you ideally want to get ganon offstage for the edgeguard. I like Metmetm3t's rule: Don't get greedy. If you overextend on a combo ganon could punish really hard. Ban all small tri platform stages to limit his movemet options and try to take him to a flat stage or dreamland.

 

[snapcaster]

I dual main ganon g+w and playing from both sides I feel its pretty firmly in ganons favor. They both edge guard each other hard, but I believe if a ganon is patient he actually wins neutral. No good ganon is going to simply just run up commit with a fair, the most they'll do is safely back air your shield and watch what you do afterwords and look for patterns.

The best advice I can give to deal with ganon I'd say is try to always be under him. Bacon under platform and carefully watch to see if it'll disrupt his movement or hit him and go for a less committing option such as down air, waveland jab, or short hop nair under platform.

Being above him is the worst thing you can do, try to limit your jumping as much as possible and keep your ground with spacing mixup distances short hop bacons.

If you feel really like you need to approach, I highly suggest you view it as movement based as possible rather than a movement option. Try to out maneuver your way through ganon and put pressure on him with your spacing with the goal of punishing his mistakes. I highly suggest always being aware of the aeriel side b range and keeping insight on always being able to make a simple dashing wavedash to be just out of it just in case. Ganon will try to condition you with it, so be very careful.

If the ganon is committing, it should be very easy. That video you linked the ganon made infinite mistakes and if you had more control of your movement, he would have been a cinch to punish them. You still really need to learn your punishes as well, against a character like ganon a common string after a grab should lead into down air pillaring or at worst case an up air up b up air/fair/nair/sideb. You are trying to finish your punishes way too early and are not utilizing the combo potential that is up b with good di understanding.

I think instead of worrying about the matchup, you should really focus on figuring out some fundamentals with your character. Game and watch commits very strongly with a lot of his non bacon options in neutral if you aren't careful, and experienced players will tear you apart for it. Try and watch their character and just react to it, you'll get better much faster and his reactionary neutral game will make more sense.

Edit: I also thing small stages are good for g+w in this matchup, but thats at a higher level. Just go wherever you're comfortable with.