Fullhop Cape from under a platform

[Dingding123]

I'm mainly mentioning this because Mario has so many options afterwards! Granted it's reliant on the platform height of the stage. But he can land on the platform immediately FF'ing with an aerial, he can waveland, he can FF back under the platform and bair, nair or uair as he's landing, or he can even double jump and either throw out aerials or waveland onto (or off of) the top platform. Heck, he can even Cape again.

It puts Mario in an amazing spot regarding his aerial options. The only downsides I see is that Fullhop + Cape takes a moment to use, and it's probably pretty moot against the likes of Marth as being above him generally is. There's no guarantee that a Fox or Falco won't dodge it from the platform with a fullhop and then punish with an aerial as well.

So what do y'all think about it? I've only tried it on Battlefield so far; I'm assuming this won't work on Dreamland or low platforms on FoD.

 

[ChivalRuse]

What exactly is the utility of this? I'm not sure that I understand the advantage of using the cape and then a subsequent action over simply doing that option directly and cutting out the middle step.

 

[Plunder]

I'm mainly mentioning this because Mario has so many options afterwards! Granted it's reliant on the platform height of the stage. But he can land on the platform immediately FF'ing with an aerial, he can waveland, he can FF back under the platform and bair, nair or uair as he's landing, or he can even double jump and either throw out aerials or waveland onto (or off of) the top platform. Heck, he can even Cape again.

It puts Mario in an amazing spot regarding his aerial options. The only downsides I see is that Fullhop + Cape takes a moment to use, and it's probably pretty moot against the likes of Marth as being above him generally is. There's no guarantee that a Fox or Falco won't dodge it from the platform with a fullhop and then punish with an aerial as well.

So what do y'all think about it? I've only tried it on Battlefield so far; I'm assuming this won't work on Dreamland or low platforms on FoD.

Attacking almost any character on a platform with a move that leaves you above or near them in lag is generally the worst idea. You lose you positional advantage of being underneath...."It puts Mario in an amazing spot regarding his aerial options." < That statement unfortunately is pretty far from the truth.

I'll break it down -

Cape is a highly telegraphed move, by frame 2 you can clearly tell what move is about to happen, there is no other that starts like it. This gives a generous head start on reacting to it.

It's hits on frame 12-14, at around frame 18-20 a good player with decent reaction time will be starting to shield drop to punish you perhaps into a combo or as a finisher. If you DJ and tried something you are especially in for a world of hurt.

The worst part is that on hit it's unsafe and it's a realm of being reactable (35 frames). On platforms shield drops mean faster punishes than on ground.

Most important even before any of that is that it's very low reward, it is an ancillary risky step to other moves that can start combos or edge guards. Up AIrs, Dairs, Bairs, WL grab, AI Uairs, etc

WIth Mewtwo there is talk of using his SH Side B to grab platformed opponents. This actually makes sense because it grabs both shielding and non-shielding opponents while leaving Mewtwo at a safe distance still below (the move reaches far up and sideways) And it can lead to a tech chase on platform which is very useful.

 

[Deadgye]

If you're directly under the platform, this is almost never worth doing. However, if we're talking about a running fullhop to cape against an opponent on a platform and add in some requirements, you create a significant mindgame component that makes it situationally useful. A running fullhop nair against a platformed opponent is often a decent choice for Mario, particularly if you want to trade. Dair as well. And due to the mechanics of those moves, you typically hold off on their activation until the last second. The downside of this approach is that it's incredibly obvious; most competent players will shield and punish you out of shield. (Which is why with downair you usually utilize the multiple hits shieldstun to get behind your opponent.)

That's where the cape comes in: After Fox gets hit by one too many suicidal fullhop nair (trades) he's going to smarten up and shield it, then upsmash you out of shield. But now instead of an aerial you whip out the cape and turn them around inside their shield. Now their punish is facing the wrong direction which leaves them vulnerable to a maximum power nair, or if you did a reverse cape, bair.

 

[windsock]

That definitely seems like it would leave you wide open. A SH uair under the platform and just chasing from there seems like way more of a reliable tactic. Cape should be used primarily for gimping and reflecting, cause like Plunder said you can very easily telegraph it especially on-stage.