Full Hop + Aerial as fast as Possible despite Buffer/Shortcut Shop Aerial Input?

[niCkHatHito]

So I believe if I'm understanding correctly, you literally cannot input an instant full Hop + aerial because of the short hop aerial shortcut system - correct? Because of this then...

The fastest input you can achieve for a full hop + aerial is frame 0 for jump input, then 4 frames for holding jump (letting go on frame 4) to get past the short hop input during jump squat animation, then input desired aerial on frame 4 - Believe this is correct?

And lastly, if both of these statements are correct thus far, is it any shortcuts that anyone has found to circumvent the shorthop shortcut for same frame fullhop+aerial, or any shortcut for faster fullhop aerial?

Otherwise I guess I'll just start practising a lot as if this were street fighter with my links D: (Looking at Ike upthrow to full hop nairs/fairs, SUPER STRICT timing because of the stupid buffer/ shorthop shortcut).

 

[DTiki]

After some quick testing it looks as though you are correct. Using training frame by frame, inputting aerials on frame 3(the last frame you are on the ground) still hit the window for short hop aerial buffer. Frame 4 however(the first frame you are visibly off the ground) with jump held for me was getting consistent full hop aerials.

It's silly that we have to time our way around this buffer but so be it. I use c-stick for most aerials, so to practice I will time my c-stick directional press just late enough so that I'm not getting the buffered short hop. You have to "feel" out that 4th frame leaving the floor, and unfortunately I don't know of any way to test if you are actually frame perfect on execution here.

The tradeoff is that we don't have to worry about timing a rising aerial from short hop thanks to buffer, which could actually end up being more difficult to master. With Ike I can understand the need for precision here on those full hop bair finishers. For most juggling purposes though I don't see the need to actually execute a frame 4 rising full hop aerial.

 

[Sean²]

I think you can do it if you turn on tap jump. But everyone seems to hate tap jump any more.

 

[MG_3989]

I think you can do it if you turn on tap jump. But everyone seems to hate tap jump any more.

Does the short hop aerial short cut work with tap jump? If not I guess that’s the answer. Or does it just not matter and you can’t do a full hop aerial until frame 4 regardless?

I’ll use it if I can do full hop aerials faster but it took he so long to get unused to it that I really don’t wanna turn it back on

 

[Sean²]

Does the short hop aerial short cut work with tap jump? If not I guess that’s the answer. Or does it just not matter and you can’t do a full hop aerial until frame 4 regardless?

I’ll use it if I can do full hop aerials faster but it took he so long to get unused to it that I really don’t wanna turn it back on

I don't know what frame for sure. I just know it's a whole lot easier to do rising FH aerials with it on versus trying to get it to work with a jump button. Obviously it's a little harder to aim your jump if you want to go as far left or right as you can, but not that hard to get used to.

 

[MG_3989]

I don't know what frame for sure. I just know it's a whole lot easier to do rising FH aerials with it on versus trying to get it to work with a jump button. Obviously it's a little harder to aim your jump if you want to go as far left or right as you can, but not that hard to get used to.

I mean I used tap jump all the way through Brawl until I got into competitive and made the switch at the start of Ultimate. I definitely can get the hang of it I just don’t wanna slip back into bad habits by having tap jump on

 

[channel_KYX]

Does the short hop aerial short cut work with tap jump? If not I guess that’s the answer. Or does it just not matter and you can’t do a full hop aerial until frame 4 regardless?

I’ll use it if I can do full hop aerials faster but it took he so long to get unused to it that I really don’t wanna turn it back on

I just tested in training. Long story short: It doesn't change a thing.

Tap jump + A doesn't work, because if you input attack during squat, it registers as a smash. I was completely unable to perform a sh arial with tap + A. Only full hop by inputting attack while airborne.

Tap + c-stick is same result as with jump button. Input during squat animation is sh arial. No difference between smash stick or tilt stick.

 

[ASAP_Smash]

Hi

So a button jump has to input on frame 5 to full hop aerial. Tap jump allows us to input UP AIR on frame four. However, if you input any earlier you input jump cancel up smash.

The steps to perform a frame perfect full hop aerial:
-Turn on tap jump
-Hold up on the left stick
-Input ‘A’ after

This also allows you to perform the instant double jump. The instant double jump grants you the ability to throw out a hitbox at the same height as a short hop aerial, but continue to rise to the height of a full hop.

 

[kraw23]

So a button jump has to input on frame 5 to full hop aerial. Tap jump allows us to input UP AIR on frame four. However, if you input any earlier you input jump cancel up smash.

Could you change your controller to low / high sensitivity to change this?

 

[ASAP_Smash]

Could you change your controller to low / high sensitivity to change this?

I just tested. Seems that jump cancelled up smash windows remain the same regardless of stick sensitivity.