Ftilt Complete Combo List with Decay

[Tristan_win]

Before I begin let me just say thanks.

Thank you Innocentroads for all of your hard work this thread would never be possible without you. In a lot of ways I'm striving to be as useful as you Innocentroads, I hope we can chat one day. Also you are too kind for giving us the formula you used to figure out this data that really allowed Rathy Aro to help me.

Rathy Aro, after Innocentroads you are definitely a no thought 2nd to thanks after Roads.

Thank you, before your program it took me 1 hour to do a single character just for the basic 170 number's. Although the data you gave me is no were near organized it now takes me less then thirty minutes to do one and I get 884 numbers now instead of the token 170.

Thank you, Saviorlegacy although people give you very little credit for your ideas you did help me in the creation of this thread be figuring out how much Sheik ftilt does in damage for the 10 basic decays. If only more of your research was rule by number's and math, it's not as exciting as finding new techs or combos but it's very easy to recreate, check, and build upon.

Special mention for Ankoku.

Your a cool guy and although outdated I still refer to your frame data thread fairly regularly and if you count using the data then I use it daily.

~~~
Got bored, didn't feel like playing but wanted to get better, had female who plays smash say she would give her undying love to me if I learned a lot of numbers and was able to use them in combat…, got some free time, started collecting number. This thread I started so long ago based on training mode results(which funny enough was only like 1-2% off on marth it seems) I will now strive to finish and since summer is looming just around the corner I think I'll strive to complete it.

 

[The_Marth_Madness]

What about Dtilt? Does Dtilt help continue ftilt combos, or is ftilt the only thing neccessary? I just started playing shiek to see if she can compliment my Marth.

 

[imdavid]

i thought marth players didn't need a secondary character because they are perfect, oh wait. thats metaknight. xD at higher percents dtilt hits them up too high diagonally, but it does allow you to do a fair/nair chase.

so... are you saying at that percent range you can ftilt->nair ? and why was samus the problem child :] i'm intrigued

 

[Tristan_win]

i thought marth players didn't need a secondary character because they are perfect, oh wait. thats metaknight. xD at higher percents dtilt hits them up too high diagonally, but it does allow you to do a fair/nair chase.

so... are you saying at that percent range you can ftilt->nair ? and why was samus the problem child :] i'm intrigued

Actually Imdavid if you hit someone with the foot part of the dtilt they will be shot directly upward so it can be used to combo...but it's not really useful beside maybe getting Fox in a dtilt look till for like 2 hits in the low percents.

Anyways she a problem child because you can score a ftilt into a strong nair at 20% but it doesn't count it for some reason.

Why is this bad?

Because I testing every ****ing percentage multiple times all the way up to 85 fricken percent.

It took over a hour.

 

[Squidster]

Guessing cause she's ridiculously floaty.

Dtilt -> Ftilt works at extremely low %... but Ftilt -> Dtilt -> Ftilt is pointless.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

You can still air dodge even out of attacks that the Training mode would count as "consecutive hits." That would further complicate things.

 

[Tristan_win]

You can still air dodge even out of attacks that the Training mode would count as "consecutive hits." That would further complicate things.

Are you serious,

What's the point of having a "consecutive hit" counter if it can be avoided?

Good god, what the hell was the developer thinking?

 

[slickmasterizzy]

having cpu on stop messes up your data. some characters would have attacks that came out faster then a dodge would.

 

[Zankoku]

There are no attacks from hitstun that can come out before an airdodge, unless it's really close to the ground, in which case airdodge does nothing useful.

 

[Tristan_win]

~coughs~ "several months" old thread ~coughs~

 

[Zankoku]

Well, at least now we have numbers on the whole "airdodge out of hitstun" thing.
It only applies if you're hit so hard that you're sent into tumble, btw.

If you are in tumble, you can "hitstun cancel" on frame 13 with an airdodge, or frame 25 with an aerial A attack.

 

[Tristan_win]

^_^ Yes I know ankoku, I also know it takes 3-4 frames depending on the character to air dodge so we may have combos at even lower and higher % then what I listed above.

Well I got to get dress and get to work or I'll be late. You guys better pat me on the head for expanding my numbers and willing to say I'll share them even if you think they are useless.

edit: seems like I don't work today...

^_^ More collecting!

 

[rathy Aro]

This will become a very nice thread very soon! (I liekz data...) But a quick suggestion or two:
Instead of decay one, two, three could you use: .95, .86, .78 as these are more applicable to a real match where you won't get consecutive ftilts off with out an occasional other move.

Can this be a sheik boards project instead of just soley you uncovering LOADS of data alone? The thread could be completed really quickly if everyone works even a quarter as hard as you plan to.

Lastly, get a pic of that girl before you work your *** off. XD

 

[Tristan_win]

This will become a very nice thread very soon! (I liekz data...) But a quick suggestion or two:
Instead of decay one, two, three could you use: .95, .86, .78 as these are more applicable to a real match where you won't get consecutive ftilts off with out an occasional other move.

Can this be a sheik boards project instead of just soley you uncovering LOADS of data alone? The thread could be completed really quickly if everyone works even a quarter as hard as you plan to.

Lastly, get a pic of that girl before you work your *** off. XD

Fairly good notes Rathy, will do.

And no, I don't trust other peoples numbers or what anyone says really other then Ryoko and myself ...still looking for that invincibility frame on dsmash BTW. People COULD suggest numbers but I would look over all of them myself which really wouldn't save time.. at least on my end.

 

[rathy Aro]

Fairly good notes Rathy, will do.

And no, I don't trust other peoples numbers or what anyone says really other then Ryoko and myself ...still looking for that invincibility frame on dsmash BTW. People COULD suggest numbers but I would look over all of them myself which really wouldn't save time.. at least on my end.

Okay, the burden is yours alone to carry. Good luck. =P Nah seriously I hope you can really get this thread done so there isn't so much guess work involved in what does and does not combo especially on annoying chars like marth and luigi. >.< Hate those two.

 

[Tristan_win]

Okay, the burden is yours alone to carry. Good luck. =P Nah seriously I hope you can really get this thread done so there isn't so much guess work involved in what does and does not combo especially on annoying chars like marth and luigi. >.< Hate those two.

Haha, one of the reason why I started with marth is BECAUSE I'm sick of his gay *** up B beating out all my strings. So I'm like "Screw this, I want so ****ing real combos" .. I also saw Cross 0 to death a marth and that pushed me over the ledge into start collecting data...

edit: I got my theme song playing, time to get marth done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAqMnLewT3s

 

[rathy Aro]

edit: fixed numbers!

Yes.

From most recent to least recent on the 9-attack queue, going left to right. Multiple entries will add together. Formula is 1.05 if the attack is not on the queue at all, and 1 - (total decay amounts) if it is.

Really not trying to be nit picky, but according to Ankoku (who's a pretty reliable source, no?) the decay equation is as said above. Meaning:
0 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= 1.05
1 ftilt in a row with no other move used before or after= .9
2 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .81
3 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .73
4 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .66
5 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .6
6 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .55
7 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .51
8 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .48
9 ftilts in a row with no other move used before or after= .46

From there people (if they can keep all this in their head while playing) can make educated guesses as to what combos by keeping count of their decay and based on your sexy data.

 

[Tristan_win]

...Yeah, DON'T BE QUESTIONING MY GLORY.

I kid, but until you edit your post I was rather confused, luckily I continued on my testing confident that when I first figure this out I made sure I was 100% correct. Although I just realize I am mislabeling them. I'll fix that, thank.

Oh and Marth is finished for now. I'll do Meta knight next.... Maaybe tonight since I'm free, maaaybe tomorrow in the morning or maybe at the last minutes 3 days from now :3

 

[rathy Aro]

WAIT?! All you need is 2 ftilts in a row to ftilt->usmash marth?!!! for a ****ing kill!!! NO WAI!

Small window for it though, but its clear that the window widens significantly as you decay the ftilt more. I think if sheiks keep an eye out for those specific percents we can have a fairly undecayed ftilt and still kill consistently. Picking a stage with a low ceiling doesn't hurt either.

 

[Tristan_win]

WAIT?! All you need is 2 ftilts in a row to ftilt->usmash marth?!!! for a ****ing kill!!! NO WAI!

Small window for it though, but its clear that the window widens significantly as you decay the ftilt more. I think if sheiks keep an eye out for those specific percents we can have a fairly undecayed ftilt and still kill consistently. Picking a stage with a low ceiling doesn't hurt either.

Yup, but if you want to be realistic then you are going to have to wait until marth is around 85% before hitting with a ftilt which will put him around 90% then even with DI he wont live....hopefully, more data is needed to say for sure. This is why I favor the third decay ftilt more then the second. Even though it's not truly decay to the third like I listed it still works...

 

[saviorslegacy]

Nice data.. I plan on collecting more tonigh as well.

DECAY COMBO'S FTW!!!!

 

[stealth3654]

Awesome Tristan. This information is going to be so useful once it's done. Who are you going to do next? MK? Luigi?

 

[Tristan_win]

Awesome Tristan. This information is going to be so useful once it's done. Who are you going to do next? MK? Luigi?

Meta knight of course..although fox was a close second :3 I want to see if it would go beyond 14 frames against fox and be something like ...20 or 30.


Since my net sucks right now I'll start working on him I guess ~sighs~ ..****ing wifi.

 

[stealth3654]

Are there any ftilt to up smash on MK?

 

[Tristan_win]

Sheik has an ftilt into usmash killing combo even with DI on every character.

I'll either finish up meta knight tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Zankoku]

Stickied by request.

 

[rathy Aro]

Are the kill percents tested with perfect DI?

 

[Tristan_win]

Are the kill percents tested with perfect DI?

The killing % listed is not with di but with training mode killing % which is higher than VS's. Depending on the character it will decide how much more you need to add on to account for DI.

The only DI testing I've done really was on Mario and with DI in VS he can live from an usmash to 92% which in training with no di it was 86%.

 

[stealth3654]

If you did the killing % in training mode, how did you decay your ftilt?

 

[Tristan_win]

If you did the killing % in training mode, how did you decay your ftilt?

I did the usmash killing % a while ago

Link to truth: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200331

What I'm doing is using the info from ColinJF thread, Ankoku frame data, and Innocent roads ftilt advantage calculator to get all my numbers. I'm not going into VS to "check my work" I’ll most likely do that later or find out within a match down the road something wrong.

Since before this thread I've been constantly getting ftilt into usmash on every character with the little data I had beforehand that was gain from that calculator. I believe this data to be very accurate.

Oh and I'll do Snake next, I'll work on him tonight after work or tomorrow in the morning.

 

[rathy Aro]

I wonder if there is a way to programmatically produce this info all at once. I'll look into it once my APs are done with.

 

[<π]

I wonder if there is a way to programmatically produce this info all at once. I'll look into it once my APs are done with.

I'll do it later Iroads posted the formula up, as well as all the constants, so it's just copy and paste.

 

[Tristan_win]

That would be awesome if you could just figure it all out.

While you’re at it do decay possibilities ~sighs~ I wish I knew how to program

 

[rathy Aro]

That would be awesome if you could just figure it all out.

While you’re at it do decay possibilities ~sighs~ I wish I knew how to program

You could probably learn enough of programming to do this in less time than it would take to actually find all the info. So if you really wanna learn go ahead and do so. There are plenty of books on the subject and infinite sources over the internet. I suggest learning Java, but some might say C is good to learn first (they're wrong >.<).

On topic-ish: Yeah decay possibilities can definitely be done with a program. My calculator can probably do this pretty easily. lol

 

[Tristan_win]

Screw programing, I'm going back to plugging in numbers like a machine.

Oh and Snake will most likely be done before noon. Any suggestions on who I should do next?

 

[<π]

don't worry about falco for now... D3?

 

[Zankoku]

Dedede would be nice.

 

[Tristan_win]

Indeed, I shall work on him then.

 

[rathy Aro]

INT(INTEGER) ≈ Round down


WIP (5/5/09)

V[km/h]=((0.07*(Atk+2)*(Dmg+Atk)/(Weight/100)+18)*R.E.+R.A.)*0.9*0.72

Dmg = %

Ftilt(Sheik)
Atk = 5*Stale
R.E. = 1
R.A. = 20
CF = 0.5
Theta = 90
Cooldown = 16

Advantage Frame(Stand) = INT(V/1.62-(Cooldown+1))
Advantage Frame(Crouch) = INT(V/1.62-(Cooldown+1))+INT(((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)*(2/3))-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)
Advantage Frame(V≥51.84,Stand)? = 14-(Cooldown+1)[Air Dodge] , 26-(Cooldown+1)[A Action]
Advantage Frame(V≥51.84,Crouch)? = 14-(Cooldown+1)+INT(((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)*(2/3))-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)[Air Dodge] , 26-(Cooldown+1)+INT(((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)*(2/3))-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)[A Action]
Advantage Frame(Shield) = INT(Atk/2.6+4)+INT(Atk/2.9)-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)-Cooldown

Weight =
Mario 99
Luigi 98.5
Peach 95
Bowser 110
Donkey Kong 108
Diddy Kong 96.5
Yoshi 103.5
Wario 103.5
Link 102
Zelda 92.5
Sheik 92.5
Ganondorf 104.5
Toon Link 96
Samus 104
Zero Suit Samus 90.5
Pit 97
Ice Climbers 96
R.O.B. 103
Kirby 89
Meta Knight 89.5
King Dedede 106
Olimar 91
Fox 90
Falco 91
Wolf 101
Captain Falcon 102
Pikachu 89.5
Squirtle 87.5
Ivysaur 100
Charizard 105
Lucario 100
Jigglypuff 84
Marth 93.5
Ike 102
Ness 97
Lucas 97
Mr. Game & Watch 87.5
Snake 106.5
Sonic 97.5

Tristan, is this what you use for your frame advantages? if not then what?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Tristan, is this what you use for your frame advantages? if not then what?

*piece of peace