Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Sol0ke]

Am I the only one who can't get over how better Ike's fair is now?

Also, FE Fates! Hype

 

[Krysco]

Finally at the last social of my main 6 with Ike being one of the 3 I've been too lazy to go to until today. Went to the MK, D3 and Ganon boards relatively quickly but for whatever reason I never felt the need to go to the Ike, Kirby or R.O.B. boards :/.

I don't go to tournaments and if I ever do go to any I can see myself using mostly R.O.B., Kirby and MK with D3 being used maybe every now and then...and that's where I'd end it if it weren't for the patch. Pre-patch I didn't see much use using Ike or Ganon in a tournament compared to my other options and D3 is barely an option since he controls space nicely and has damn good survivability. Thanks to the patch though, I may actually consider using Ike for certain match ups if I ever go to tournaments.

 

[Maik93]

Has anyone already tried if dash attack can take out luma in one hit?

 

[LordShade67]

Has anyone already tried if dash attack can take out luma in one hit?

If Luma's near the ledge. Otherwise, no.

 

[Arrei]

It used to be really good for just following up and sweeping Luma off the stage after hitting it with a jab combo or Ftilt, but it was risky since Rosalina would easily be ready to block and punish you afterward. It might be even better now that it's faster.

 

[DarkStar64]

Anyone want to do some 3DS matches? Or Wii U doesn't really matter

 

[McKnightlíght]

I'm loving how dash attack can kill now.

I've been wanting that buff for a while now. I'm ok with the ftilt nerf, it still kills and it's easier to spam punish with it.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Hey question... Who has the best ike right now? Highly regarded as best ike?

 

[-RedX-]

I would say Ryo since he kinda started an Ike boom during early launch days.
Right now, I have no clue.

 

[link and ike lover]

What do you guys think of Link VS Ike?

 

[McKnightlíght]

It's really annoying trying to get in on Link. But once you're in he's pretty easy to deal with.

 

[Arrei]

It's Toon Link that really annoys me, because he can camp the ledge and kill you with Bthrow, but the both of them basically shut down aerial approaches with projectile spam and shield grabbing, forcing us to find ways to outsmart them.

 

[Sol0ke]

I think both matchups though are still very doable, despite how annoying they both are.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

I think Link wins the Ike match-up, though not necessarily by a huge margin. Ike has trouble getting around Link's projectiles, and Link's grab can punish you easily if you don't space yourself well (even moreseo now, as in 1.08 Link's grab range was close to doubled). And Link is very safe on his pokes as well, and his sword range (I feel) can compete with Ike's (on top of z-air). You just gotta be patient, play safe, and work your way in. Once you get in on Link it can be a real struggle until they find some way to reset things back to neutral.

 

[Xuan Wu]

What do you guys think of Link VS Ike?

Link is probably my most fought character. If this match-up was based on the 1.0.4 update, where Link used to have his Jab Cancel, I would have said Link wins; however, that got nerfed in 1.0.6. That alone made Link far less threatening, in my opinion.

Now, in 1.0.8., both characters are buffed considerably, especially Ike. With this, I am convinced to say it is even.

To analyze both of their attributes from a Link's perspective, assuming non-customs environment:

+ Link has projectiles (obviously), plus Z-air
+ N-air's lingering hitbox is useful off-stage for gimping; B-air is also useful offstage for stage-spiking
+ U-air can frame trap and destroy air dodges
+ Second hit of D-smash sends his opponents at a nasty angle
+ Spin Attack buffed start-up frames make it a better OoS option
+ Whatever Bomb tricks Link has left
* Both characters are fairly heavy, with Ike being heavier; prolonging their survivability and allowing them to make good use of rage
* Both characters can hit quite hard, with Ike hitting a bit harder on some attacks
* Both characters have two recovery options, allowing them to mix up their recoveries
- Link's Grab being a tether grab makes it more punishable than Ike's if it whiffs
- Ike's Jab comes out faster than Link's, frame 4 as opposed to frame 6, I think
- Link lacks SH auto-cancelled aerials (B-air?), compared to Ike (correct me if I'm wrong)
- Outside of projectiles, Ike slightly out-ranges Link
- Ike's F-air hitbox buff allows it to true combo more easily from U-throw at higher percentages, and can kill Link near the ledges
- Ike's vastly improved Dash Attack, being faster and now rivals Link's in damage, greatly helps Ike's mid-range game; this will also kill Link near the ledges, and will kill him even earlier with rage

I will elaborate on all of this at a later time. By the way, @ link and ike lover . Don't forget to also visit the Link vs. Ike thread I've started in the Link boards.

And as Arrei said, I find Toon Link much harder.

^-^

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Are we considering customs in this as well? Because I think meteor bombs will screw over Ike pretty hard. Since he doesn't snap to the ledge with up b, Link just needs to pull a meteor bomb, jump over you while Ike's spinning in place and throw it down on you. Repeat until you're dead.

Unless Ike has armor at that point but I don't recall that being the case.

Of course, with customs Ike also gets Close Combat, which helps him a bit in the range game as it clashes with every projectile Link has (including bombs, I think)

 

[-RedX-]

Got 7th out of 61(out of 32 if only counting pro bracket) at NYC's biggest local series, first time I played in a tournament with pools. Pretty neat. Got 2nd seed in my pool losing only to Will. In bracket, I lost to John Numbers' Wii Fit and MikeKirby's...Kirby.
Honestly, I haven't been in touch in with the scene in about 5-6 months so I made questionable choices on what stages to take/ban these weird ass characters. /johns
I did learn though, which is what matters.

 

[san.]

Are we considering customs in this as well? Because I think meteor bombs will screw over Ike pretty hard. Since he doesn't snap to the ledge with up b, Link just needs to pull a meteor bomb, jump over you while Ike's spinning in place and throw it down on you. Repeat until you're dead.

Unless Ike has armor at that point but I don't recall that being the case.

Of course, with customs Ike also gets Close Combat, which helps him a bit in the range game as it clashes with every projectile Link has (including bombs, I think)

Indeed it clashes. Link's bomb is considered an item with HP, so it's also affected by windboxes. Close combat only deals 4% at the start and 3% at the end. Meteor bombs also aren't very strong until really high percents. Ike can also try to super armor the bombs, destroy them with aether, hug the underside, or try to snap from farther away depending on the bomb position. Of course, just using side B to recover is the easiest with little risk.

 

[Mario766]

up throw Fair is dirty.

I can get it guaranteed till like 70-80 on big heavy characters, leading to massive 20 damage on every grab that I get. With a couple of reads the damage racks up very fast and leads into kill percent. F-Tilt becomes an actual punish and can edgeguard with the downward variant and can be used like in PM to swat people recovering. Dash Attack becomes this awesome kill move that hits as fast as our F-Tilt and can punish moves OoS.

I'm really liking this version of Ike.

 

[Arrei]

Are we considering customs in this as well? Because I think meteor bombs will screw over Ike pretty hard. Since he doesn't snap to the ledge with up b, Link just needs to pull a meteor bomb, jump over you while Ike's spinning in place and throw it down on you. Repeat until you're dead.

Unless Ike has armor at that point but I don't recall that being the case.

Of course, with customs Ike also gets Close Combat, which helps him a bit in the range game as it clashes with every projectile Link has (including bombs, I think)

On the other hand, there's a good chance Ike is running Aether Wave instead, which would cut down on Link's window of opportunity to do that. Although, if Ike's running Aether Drive instead, one meteor bomb might be enough to end him...

 

[PyroTakun]

So who is going to CEO?

 

[Linkmario00]

So, I was playing around on FG testing buffed Ike and I found that an Aether to the edge can be a very useful tool for catching that frame one invincibility when snapping the ledge and can condition recovering. In fact, after patch if we hit someone with Aether there's no risk they fall out thank to the new suck in property and the only risk is a ledge get up situation if the opponent react fast enough, but I think it's definitly Worth it considering that if we catch them it's a one hit KO. Also we can condition to recover high and gimp easily with Fair/Bair. What do you think about that?

 

[Ura]

This is the most hype thing ever.

 

[san.]

This is the most hype thing ever.

This is hype for me

 

[PyroTakun]

I know it was discussed somewhere at some point, but how do you Crouch Cancel Ike's Jab 1 and Jab 2?

 

[san.]

I know it was discussed somewhere at some point, but how do you Crouch Cancel Ike's Jab 1 and Jab 2?

With attack stick: hold down and manually tap diagonally on the c-stick. You have to time it.

without: either just hold crouch or some other action and manually tap A after releasing down from the control stick
or hold a specific position on the control stick diagonally down+forward and tap A.

jab->dtilt is one of his better followups, so we don't have to worry much about it.

The difference from Brawl is that it cannot be buffered.

 

[Mario766]

I have trouble getting jab 1 -> d-tilt to link properly. Is there a specific damage percent when it starts working or am I just not getting the timing right on it?

 

[san.]

I have trouble getting jab 1 -> d-tilt to link properly. Is there a specific damage percent when it starts working or am I just not getting the timing right on it?

It's based on the floatiness of the character. It's a little easier on characters like Pikachu, Mario, and Sonic, but characters like Sheik need to be jabbed in the air and/or Ike needs to have high rage. It'll almost never work on characters like Fox. After a while, you'll be able to tell if you can get the dtilt based on how high they pop up. You want to dtilt the vulnerable frames from landing (~2-4 iirc).

Prepatch, nair->jab->dtilt was a common string I used to use at low %, but not nair just combos into dtilt.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

So with Ike's ftilt sped up, is using two in a row good for trying to catch people to punish the first one or push them back to prevent a punish? Haven't exactly looked at its shield push.

 

[Arrei]

Speedy or long-ranged characters can still punish whiffs, so it's not a very good habit to get into, I think.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Forgot to mention that I'm talking about ftilt hitting a shield. Maybe something faster like jab or dtilt, or mix up between the three?

 

[san.]

It's a decent option to try once in a great while if their back is to the edge and they're at kill percents.

 

[Ekans647]

This is the most hype thing ever.

Except for the fact that neither of those attacks will connect.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'll be at CEO this weekend.

http://ceogaming.challonge.com/2015_smash4_9

I go up against Xaltis (Rosalina) and, if I make it through, Nairo (ZSS, Robin). Wish me luck! I'm all ears and eyes for any tips.

Edit: San also warned me about this Little Mac that almost beat Ryo. Solreth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxGoovkIZc

 

[Arrei]

I dragged a Bowser offstage with a U-throw -> Aether and killed us both today.

I laughed like a hyena when I pulled it off.

Truly, backwards snap Aether would be one of the most overpowered moves in this game.

 

[Ekans647]

I dragged a Bowser offstage with a U-throw -> Aether and killed us both today.

I laughed like a hyena when I pulled it off.

Truly, backwards snap Aether would be one of the most overpowered moves in this game.

I do this all the time. If I'm a stock ahead, I'll go for an Aethercide. So satisfying.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Ike new F-tilt it's fast and it kills what more do we need!

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Ike new F-tilt it's fast and it kills what more do we need!

But is it safe is what I'm asking.

Also, anyone remember that Ike round robin PR thing we used to do back in Brawl? Are we gonna do something like that eventually? I know interest died though.

 

[Mario766]

Ryo putting in work in doubles with the craziest team people could think of, Ike/Mac

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ryo putting in work in doubles with the craziest team people could think of, Ike/Mac

Crazy... but I can see how that could work.

As long as they don't run into like, Double Toon Link.