Foxtrot and Pivot Moves

[Tenki]

so.. did you guys know that if you do a dash dance (rapidly pressing left anf right over and over)

you can actually smash out of it, as long as you are facing left, you cna c-stick right and do fsmash to the right. and opposite works the same, if you cstick left when you are facing right, it will fsmash left.

if you try to cstick right while facing right, it will dash attack.


this dash-dance strat was used a lot in melee because more could be done out of it, and there was no tripping. this is pretty hard to do in brawl too because you have to do it a lot faster to get the same effct.


(FYI, turn tap jump off to make this a lot easier to do)


anyway this could be a realy good thing for sonic if explored more.

Actually, as long as you input the smash at pretty much the same time you hit the direction, you can smash.

You can smash as you start an initial dash, so that makes sense.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its just that in brawl the DD timing is way faster, so you cant make any distance with it.
captain falcons DD in melee could take you from one end of FD to the other, and it looks very similar to phanna's pivot sonic video. you could actually cover distance with it in melee and mess with your opponents timing by varying your DD timing

 

[R4ZE]

Doesnt sonic's "skid stop" give him an advantage over other characters?

 

[da K.I.D.]

its great for mindgaming forward smashes

 

[da K.I.D.]

its just weird how when you stop running, he stops on a dime, but if he stops out of a Spindash, hee skids halfway through FD

 

[IceDX]

hey I was messing around with this stuff a wile ago bc i thoght i hyad it down but it seems to me that this is something that in order to use it properly it will take time bc it needs to be completely masterd.......... since i need to practice this ill guess ill pick up marth and get it down with him then just transfer it over to Sonic....

 

[R4ZE]

its just weird how when you stop running, he stops on a dime, but if he stops out of a Spindash, hee skids halfway through FD

doesent SD mofe faster than run? momentum would cause this no?




ya, i think this quickmovement nonsense needs to be mastered with every character, but sonic moves fastest, so i think it would be even more important to be mastered with sonic.

 

[da K.I.D.]

doesent SD mofe faster than run? momentum would cause this no?

.

thats true, but rolling isnt so much faster than running that it would be that much harder for sonic to stop himself

ya, i think this quickmovement nonsense needs to be mastered with every character, but sonic moves fastest, so i think it would be even more important to be mastered with sonic

also correct, youre on a roll today dude, lol.

its especially useful for sonic for 2 reasons

1. obviously because hes fast and can get inside people
2. because his initial dash phase is very short, but even still, with his speed, it covers madd distance. not only that, but through the use of the grinding tech, his initial dash is variable. this is the possibility that comes to my head.

you are against a ROB thats at 150, hes at the end of final D and sonic is in the middle, he pulls out the gyro, but as hes charging, sonic foxtrot surfs at him, than begins charging a f-smash, the freaked out ROB auto spotdodges like all ROBs do, setting up for the perfect charged f-smash kill...
...
epic

 

[RenegadeRaven]

This is good stuff Tenki, thanks. I need to check this site more. >_<

 

[Greenstreet]

News Update: I dash danced for about 5 seconds today. I think I almost have it down-pat. And i thought i was dash-danced impaired....
Talk about rising above oppression...someone make a movie for me.

Is Bruckheimer free?

 

[R4ZE]

here is an idea. run behind ur opponent, skid cancel > pivot Fsmash ...... opponent lands, repeat



If you can pull it off repeatedly, and if you dont trip, it seems like somthing that would be hard to get out of... you could even mind game it by skid canceling in front of them and fsmashing them form there.


never tried it in a real fight yet, but the running behind them and fsmashing seems more applicable than the skid cancel > fsmash while in front of them. (i did this a few times in a real fight and caught my enemy off gaurd for a ko)

 

[TwinkleToes]

^People with a fast jab/tilt or aerial can put a stop to that for the most part.

 

[R4ZE]

still can be a mind game. they would have to tech, and jab very fast... even then i think u could get ur fsmash off at the same time. so long as fsmash out priorities the jab, u win.

 

[Tenki]

Dash pivot cancel added to the list, just because it has "Pivot" in the name.

but really, it's useful, and I've met a few Sonic players who make use of it. Actually, I believe the only players I've seen use it in actual battle were Sonic players lol. And mind you, it's effective with his running speed.

Basically, it takes advantage of IASA frames or something like that as you're turning from a full dash.

[full dash]>[turn] > [any move to interrupt the turn]

An easy way to see this in action is to [fulldash]>[hold back for a moment] > [hold forward]

If you do it right, Sonic will start to turn (facing towards/away from the screen), then all of a sudden jerk forward and continue running, without another turning animation.

useful things you can do from this:
- stutter step
- dash attack
- Foxtrot>F-smash
- dashgrab
- tilt

mess around with it, it's pretty interesting. seriously, try it on a sandbag or something - run at it, press back, then C-stick forward in the middle of the turning animation. It makes you appreciate the amount of movement/range that Sonic can reach with his F-smash.

 

[Umby]

I found this out a while ago, but considered it useless. It makes the dash attack or an SH Fair seem trickier IMO, but that's about it.

 

[Tenki]

All of these were found a while ago, but it's not like they're used or anything, hahaha.

gah, when I got hit by a DPC stutterstep for the first time, I thought a;sldfkja;dsfkjalsdjfa i got mindgamed ;__;

like, really.

we were having an intense mindgame fight, and all of a sudden

 

[R4ZE]

lol. exactly man. there must be like less than 5 sonic players that have messed around with these techs. we are just tyring to educate the community =)

 

[Espy Rose]

All of these were found a while ago, but it's not like they're used or anything, hahaha.

gah, when I got hit by a DPC stutterstep for the first time, I thought a;sldfkja;dsfkjalsdjfa i got mindgamed ;__;

like, really.

we were having an intense mindgame fight, and all of a sudden

In my second video vs. Hylian, I think I pulled off something of the sort.

I foxtrot over to MK, then go directly into fsmash.

Unfortunately, he shielded and countered, so I got punished.

I still need to work on the timing, as I found myself foxtrotting here and there without following it up in those matches.

 

[Napilopez]

Dash pivotcancel is awesome, really. Its very useful as a surprise kill move, and can actually be a pretty reliable mindgamed kill if you don't overuse it. I've caught a few people here with it XD. DPC to stutter step is especially effective at times because it makesup for any lost range during a turnaround. I would definitely recommend it if you need to land a kill against a defensive player, especially if that char has no projectiles

I believe once I had something like this:
Was fighting an average marth who was shuffling Fairs on the other side of FD, so I ran up to his face, started to do the standard turnaround animation, the marth stopped Shuffling, and then was hit by a Stutterstep X2 Fsmash :D Twas awesome.

Really, getting hit by a DPC feels like such a smack in the face sometimes, because it usually so unexpected. I tend to land it pretty often on my opponents because I do so much useless running anyways, so that they thing I'm just being annoying runnign around, when suddenly they get Sawneek Poonched.

 

[R4ZE]

that description reminds me of falcons in melee that would just empty shuffle and then pull a knee out of their ***.


lol i think if sonic is capable of such tactics, we can work with that to win.

 

[Napilopez]

Bumped, because of Doop Walking, and because we really should discuss Sonic's Dash more.

Like, how if you see it coming, you can avoid MK dsmash or snake ftilt and come back if for a grab by foxtrot> DDP > run and grab.

 

[R4ZE]

every one just kinda... knows what they want to do with sonic all the time.. like:
-run straight, do some kind of attack


but i think sonic works better if you just mess around. there are so many alterations that sonic can quickly make on his own momentum. this can be an insane mindgame.



EXAMPLE: i am running at my opponent, he expects the attack at the same timing that i normally do, so i try to execute a skid-stop smash to alter the timing, i **** up the skid stop, but i still alter my speed, he executes his attack, and i wait while still moving toward him slightly slower to execute my dash attack. the timing is thrown, so i still win.



my point is, the usefullness of these techs doesent jsut come form being able to execute attacks quickly, or execute POWERFUL attacks quickly, it seems to be that main advantage of these techs are jsut throwing ur opponents timing off, mindgaming.. but the powerful attacks would be helfup for kills.

 

[JayBee]

Bumped, because of Doop Walking, and because we really should discuss Sonic's Dash more.

Like, how if you see it coming, you can avoid MK dsmash or snake ftilt and come back if for a grab by foxtrot> DDP > run and grab.

I use it best when i bait attacks, then foxtrot away, then ddp back for a grab on lag.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Dash pivot cancel added to the list, just because it has "Pivot" in the name.

but really, it's useful, and I've met a few Sonic players who make use of it. Actually, I believe the only players I've seen use it in actual battle were Sonic players lol. And mind you, it's effective with his running speed.

Basically, it takes advantage of IASA frames or something like that as you're turning from a full dash.

[full dash]>[turn] > [any move to interrupt the turn]

An easy way to see this in action is to [fulldash]>[hold back for a moment] > [hold forward]

If you do it right, Sonic will start to turn (facing towards/away from the screen), then all of a sudden jerk forward and continue running, without another turning animation.

useful things you can do from this:
- stutter step
- dash attack
- Foxtrot>F-smash
- dashgrab
- tilt

mess around with it, it's pretty interesting. seriously, try it on a sandbag or something - run at it, press back, then C-stick forward in the middle of the turning animation. It makes you appreciate the amount of movement/range that Sonic can reach with his F-smash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fu3ZhkR0lA
malcom ***** with it

I use it best when i bait attacks, then foxtrot away, then ddp back for a grab on lag.

how do you do it again? i forgot

 

[Napilopez]

how do you do it again? i forgot

Lolz, its in the OP. =P

Just foxtrot, the press forward than back at dashdance speed.

And yea. I'm starting to find that running away is better than rolling for a dodge with Sonic in almost every instance. After watching Espy and malcom do it so much, I've come to find that foxtrot away-> DDP backwards is so much more effective than rolling, because not only do you escape the attack, but you are also actually counter attacking. Its basically what Kojin said, except I'm saying to use it not only to bait attacks, but to avoid attacks in general. Like, lets say lucario fsmahes. its startup is pretty slow, so you have time to react to it. rather than shielding, spotdodgeing, or roll dodging, foxtrot away and DDP back for the grab. Its just so much more effective.

 

[Tenki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fu3ZhkR0lA
malcom ***** with it

yup :3

 

[NFS (sonic)]

i knew about the foxtrot and dashdance, but i need to work on my pivot turns, good thread cuase i was just smashing buttons up until now.