• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Fox's worst matchup

leekslap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
581
Location
Trapped in a .gif
3DS FC
2294-4978-8399
Who is it? Not just even like Marth. What are all the bad MU and which are the worst? I've heard Samus, Mewtwo, Yoshi and way more but it doesn't seem like it right. And if he doesn't have any bad MUs now, then what character could change to counter Fox?
 

T-Cash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
156
Location
Easton Pa
Mewtwo is almost a non winnable match ups with grab combos and m2 free edge guards.

Diddy is rough but way more winnable

Samus weight doesn't allow you to combo and you have to play very very safe to win.

Bowser- I find this a hard match up but it u get him to a certain percent you can combo pretty effectively Stay Out Of The Air

Other than that fox gets ***** by everyone in the cast camp - laser - laser - camp don't get grabbed and you'll win best of luck in playing fox in pm:)
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Mewtwo is probably the correct answer. Mewtwo is the easiest character to demonstrate some kind of advantage, way easier than Sonic.
 

Kar

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
17
Mewtwo is not that bad since upthrow up air combos are really easy to do
 

Defyler

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
65
Location
Ontario
Sonic is brutal against Fox but I don't find Mewtwo to be too difficult. I guess it's just personal preference and what your playstyle as Fox is, everyone has their own personal worst MU against their Fox depending on their playstyle. Although more often than not some characters do get the upper hand on Fox, so I guess those could be considered his bad matchups but I don't really think he has a worst matchup.
 
Last edited:

G13_Flux

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,076
with peach it could potentially approach even, but i dont think its in peaches favor. the MU is bad for her because of the extreme difference in mobility, as well as fox's ability to approach with moves that beat CCing, and transition straight into kills aka dair > shine > shine > shine > shine > shine > shine > shine > up smash. now its a bit easier because up smash got a nerf to kill power, lasers do less damage at distances (good for campy peach), and peach has gotten some buffs as well the fundamentals of the MU havent changed though, since none of the buffs peach got change how fox is going to approach her. the only buffs id say could factor into it are uthrow > DACUS or a tough side b read, more notably the former though. (peach definitely beats falco now though, btw).

i think roy goes mostly even. i used to think charizard was good against fox, but that was pre 3.5. not so much anymore. M2 is probably likely to be a good MU. not gonna lie, i think DDD might not have a terrible time against fox either. think peach but super resistant to vertical kills, or kills in general really. he is slow, but a good DDD is very preventative, and due to the space that he can cover in neutral with ftilt, jab, bair, and grab, it might not be as bad as people would say. wouldnt neccesarily say he beats him, but comparatively, i dont think its as bad as other characters.
 
Last edited:

MrKidneyShiv

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
12
I agree with Ike and Mewtwo. I play Ike against all the spacies because of his ridiculous range and up throw combos on him. Like. Up throw basically turns into a stock, You cant really shine Ike's recovery, He lives forever, His counter destroys a poorly spaced Up-B, and Ike has a sword. A really powerful sword.

As for Mewtwo, M2free edgeguards all day long.

Just don't get hit and you'll win every time.
 

TurboLink

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
1,156
3DS FC
4725-8278-5467
Mewtwo is probably the correct answer. Mewtwo is the easiest character to demonstrate some kind of advantage, way easier than Sonic.
How? What does Mewtwo have over Fox?
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
How? What does Mewtwo have over Fox?
My post is over a year old, probably in 3.02 where Mewtwo was one of the best characters in the game. Current Mewtwo is a nerfed version of that so he may not apply anymore.
 

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
Premium
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
9,495
Location
Las Vegas, NV
3DS FC
1075-1816-9029
My post is over a year old, probably in 3.02 where Mewtwo was one of the best characters in the game. Current Mewtwo is a nerfed version of that so he may not apply anymore.
What's the Fox vs. Zelda matchup look like in the current version of PM?

Also, I remember being told that Fox vs. DDD matchup, is in DDD's favor. Is that still true?
 

futuristicc

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
21
Who is it? Not just even like Marth. What are all the bad MU and which are the worst? I've heard Samus, Mewtwo, Yoshi and way more but it doesn't seem like it right. And if he doesn't have any bad MUs now, then what character could change to counter Fox?
Another fox or to me falco or shiek
 

Randomman14

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
26
Location
Cincinnati Ohio
What's the Fox vs. Zelda matchup look like in the current version of PM?

Also, I remember being told that Fox vs. DDD matchup, is in DDD's favor. Is that still true?
It's either dead even or slight advantage for zelda. She combos fast fallers pretty hard
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Zelda has massive ground mobility issues in the same way peach does. She depends upon burst movement in Up B to get anywhere quickly, and Fox has the speed to punish that commitment. Almost universally characters have strong punish games on Fox, but that alone doesn't make for a good matchup. Puff has a great combo game on Fox but still has a losing matchup. Being able to contest his neutral is hugely important so I'm inclined to say Snake has one of the best MUs against Fox outside of the Melee cast (where I'd argue Marth and Samus now have winning MUs) and I'd still say that Snake v. Fox is practically even.

The main advantage Snake has is consistent zero-to-death setups (where DI only changes your executions slightly) and ways to limit Fox's mobility and slow down gameplay via down smash mines, c4, up smash mortars, and grenades as well as a strong OOS option in Cypher to combat shield pressure situations on top of grenades providing numerous rules that Fox is forced to play by when approaching Snake. He's still somewhat slow, but not nearly to the extent of Peach or Zelda who both have the worst ground mobility in the game (bottom five run speeds and bottom 10 wavedash lengths). His weight makes it difficult to get throw combos off on him (though it's not impossible) and he has a lot of ways of breaking out of combos or escaping juggles and it takes massive amounts of effort to edgeguard Snake. All the while, if the Fox makes one mistake it can literally cost him the stock.

Here's my third lifetime set against KJH a month ago for reference

Even with all the poor play and mistakes I made, I catch him with a lot of traps (and you can tell he's at least cognizant of them) and take both games in the end.
 

prem

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
86
Location
Bay area, California
It's either dead even or slight advantage for zelda. She combos fast fallers pretty hard
its actually one of zelda's worst matchups. like her combo game only get them to 80 and off stage after that its her just spamming fair and bair and hoping it hits you. punish game definitely isnt the only thing.


anyway i don't think any matchup is particularly awful for fox, just you have to play a lot of them differently. I'd say the worst is probably Marth or DDD but its more about outplaying them at that point i think
 

Denjinpachi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
335
Location
Whirl Islands
Objectively speaking, it'd come down to it being between Marth, R.O.B, D.K, and maybe G&W are his even/hard MU's. And that's because these characters have a punish, or 0-to-death game on him. But, at the same time, Fox still has the same tools, but with different properties, so he can still hold an even MU spread across the board. It'd say the real counter-pick comes in from the combination of character and stage. I wouldn't say M2 completely because he can run around and away from him really quickly. Just don't stand still, avoid bad shield pressure that gets you grabbed, and learn a bit more of a way to get more from your neutral. Fox is an all-around character that has something for every situation. And all of his tools, while some nerfed, can definitely handle the situation. It takes a lot more thought in these MU's because a grab=death or off stage, which is now a lot less survivable for Fox.

What's the Fox vs. Zelda matchup look like in the current version of PM?

Also, I remember being told that Fox vs. DDD matchup, is in DDD's favor. Is that still true?
I'm inclined to disagree, and I play D3 and Fox. I was able to run sets as both characters in both aspects of the MU, and I can tell you that D3 at best gets his placing in the MU as a 45-55 losing. This is due, primarily, to his size and speed of his moves. Granted, some moves are a lot faster than some, he lacks any way to break pressure when fox is all over him. Its all reliant on either a roll, a grab out of shield, or something even slower and unsafe like Up-B OoS, or nair OoS. D3 also is subject to being too big to completely evade laser fire.

All of the aspects that D3 wins are based on chain grabs, tech chasing, and killing off stage. His stage game is relatively based on getting stray hits that can lead to these things via minions, W-dashing, jab (1 or 2 hits) OoS grabbing/jump cancel grabbing, etc. Either way, the majority of times I see D3 win the MU is because the Fox that fights him is severely unversed in the MU, doesn't have the tech skill necessary to punish bad waddle dashes, can't pressure him, and also cannot impose any form of offense at all. Also, after like 20 percent or so, D3 can be subject to u-throw u-air combos, even with good DI. nair is too slow, and Dair requires a position that the fox probably wont be in in order to break out of the combo. Which I believe kills him off the top of battlefield at like 115-120. possibly less I think at PS2.

Lastly, from my experience from grinding the MU at Final Boss this recent weekend in San Jose, I can say that as long as I committed to a camp, the D3 couldn't stop me. He could try to W-dash to cover distance, but then I would just run in, and punish the recovery by jumping over the tossed minion, and nair/drill shining to an u-smash or grab to u-air. However, D3 has the benefit of mixing up his recovery with the large hitboxes he can swing on his way back with full resources. He can also still threaten space below him with his up-b. However, if the fox is just going to commit to defense/punish game, you can recover all day, but the opening that got you in that position to start with will only keep happening until the fox commits to a kill option after racking up damage on stray hits, and wave shine punish combos too. That's all on recovery I could really gather from the time I had. Sorry I can't remember the D3 who I played, but I was told there was another one there besides me that was actually from the Bay area. I assume that was him.
 
Last edited:

Denjinpachi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
335
Location
Whirl Islands
How? What does Mewtwo have over Fox?
Yeah, with the changes of both characters mostly being nerfs, the match up is a lot better for fox now because M2's mobility has been balanced. But other than that, M2 has a lot of answers for edge guarding spacies, as well as the fact that he can do a chaingrab I believe. He still is very much a threat if you have a bad neutral game, because he punishes so hard. and he can attack you off stage still as well. in my opinion, when he edge guards, he like a lucas with more condensed smashes to guard with, and off stage, he's like a peach with a float that can take him in 8 directions. An edge guarding nightmare for fox.
 

Denjinpachi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
335
Location
Whirl Islands
its actually one of zelda's worst matchups. like her combo game only get them to 80 and off stage after that its her just spamming fair and bair and hoping it hits you. punish game definitely isnt the only thing.


anyway i don't think any matchup is particularly awful for fox, just you have to play a lot of them differently. I'd say the worst is probably Marth or DDD but its more about outplaying them at that point i think

I'd still say D3 isn't as bad as people think. Its just a MU that requires a lot of patience and defensive play. Can't risk messing up in neutral, or on his shield. like, period.
 

Tobb99

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
118
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I wonder does Fox have any notable disadvantageous MUs?? I've heard people some saying he doesn't have any, and others saying that Fox is overrated and that the meta is so undeveloped. So I wondered, does Fox have any bad MU's, and which and how bad are they??

Some characters I'd think of giving him a hard time are:

Captain Falcon
Falco
Dedede
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Marth
Ike
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Peach
Pikachu
Snake
Sonic
ROB
Yoshi

What do you guys think?
 
Last edited:

Denjinpachi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
335
Location
Whirl Islands
I wonder does Fox have any notable disadvantageous MUs?? I've heard people some saying he doesn't have any, and others saying that Fox is overrated and that the meta is so undeveloped. So I wondered, does Fox have any bad MU's, and which and how bad are they??

Some characters I'd think of giving him a hard time are:

Captain Falcon
Falco
Dedede
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Marth
Ike
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Peach
Pikachu
Snake
Sonic
ROB
Yoshi

What do you guys think?
To give you an honest answer there aren't really many "bad" match ups, and much as I'd say that they are all coming a lot closer to being even. which compared to how fox used to be, could be called bad. But he holds his own due to either winning the neutral against almost every character in the game, punish capability, or consistent pressure and kill options. Its the fact that he has all of what makes a character good that keeps him at the top. But every character in the game is either tailored to kill a fast faller, or a spacie with their punish game, or anything to that effect. The ones that stick out are any that have chain grabs into a kill move. i.e. marth, D3, peach (to a degree), mewtwo, etc.
 

Landitty

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
33
Location
Colorado
In my opinion and experience, Fox doesn't truely have any bad matchups in this game. Every character has some sort of magic combo or gimp that works on Fox because he is so combo-able and easy to gimp. So It all depends on your ability to change playstyles on a dime and out maneuver your opponent with his incredible movement potential. But it takes a lot of hard work with the hands and most people can't react fast enough to enact that 2016 Mango/Leffen level of motion. But the potential is there, and is humanly possible! And honestly, since Fox's advanced techniques and short-hop are more consistent and easier to input in PM then in Melee, the potential to execute this stuff perfectly is even greater than we might know! He'll always be one of the hardest characters to play at a high level, but Fox has an answer for every situation, and that's why I main him.
 
Top Bottom