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Fox on FD

Theftz22

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
1,030
Location
Hopewell, NJ
Let's discuss why this stage is bad for samus in this MU. Fox's strongest tool against samus, it seems to me, is platform camping. FD takes this away. Of course, we lose up-B OOS. Do platforms really benefit samus more than fox on the whole?
 

343

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
433
Location
Norcal
I think Samus's punish game on Fox is severely weakened by the lack of platforms, because you can't platform techchase anymore. Samus can no longer use aerials to pressure Fox when he's on a platform, and aerials frankly are pretty bad on FD because you can't land earlier onto a platform (of course, aerials are often the only way to follow up certain hits, so you do them anyway... I guess upthrow -> aerial followups are more guaranteed now because there's no top plat to mess you up?).

On the other hand, if Fox gets Samus above him, it's now a lot harder to come down (Fox can just track your fall.)

In neutral, the fact that the stage is so wide sorta sucks for Samus: Fox has plenty of space to dd, to laser camp, and to gain run speed for deep/overshot aerials.

And of course, losing up-b OOS suuuucks. Your OOS options are now basically limited to "up-b and hope he doesn't know how to DI," or "wavedash oos and hope his pressure sucks." Yuck.
 

Mervis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
313
This is the stage that warrants an extender! Yeah! That's totally going to help in the MU
 

Theftz22

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
1,030
Location
Hopewell, NJ
^LOL

@ 343 343 I think aerial pressure when fox is on the platform is fairly unsafe in general, unless you have a read on fox's movement. Though there is more space to DD and laser camp on FD, when you close down the space, it's harder for fox to escape. Otherwise I agree.

I'm just playing devil's advocate btw. I want to open a discussion on a long time unquestioned assumption, especially after I saw Plup not ban FD vs leffen and win. Personally I have a marth which I use on FD vs fox LOL.
 

Mervis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
313
I think if you can react well enough, it's possible to 0 - death spacies on this stage off of a DSmash. Though I think that has more to do with the MU than the actual stage.
 

343

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
433
Location
Norcal
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's easier to kill spacies off dsmash on other stages, lol
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Just camp the ledge on the stage into AIs and hax dashing, no laser camping that way, and you can do mini charge shot on ledge into regrab if fox refuses to approach you on ledge
 
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